5? Why?
How many legs does a sheep have if you called its tail a leg?
Four, because calling a tail a leg doesn’t make it one
-Abraham Lincoln
I prefer Greedo shooting first rather than Han. I never understood how it undermined Han’s character, when in fact it reinforces his selfishness, he’s so selfish he’s willing to preserve his own life. Whereas in TFA, he’s become so selfless he’s willing to reach out to his son in the worst of all locations, at the cost of his own life.
Bold, intriguing idea. One milder spin on it could be that Obi-Wan sincerely thinks Anakin killed the younglings because he finds the bodies with lightsaber wounds (inflicted by Sidious himself), then finds the hologram of Sidious telling Anakin to “bring peace to the Empire” (maybe with the implication being the Jedi bugged the Chancellor’s office, further highlighting how morally-compromised the Order has become), and draws an understandable but erroneous conclusion with disastrous consequences.
That’s a possibility, though it may become too confusing. The cleanest idea would probably be to just cut Yoda’s line about the lightsaber wounds.
Rewatching the scene of Obi-wan confronting Padme, the camera really focuses on Obi-wan as he speaks about the Younglings. It’s interesting how he turns away from Padme and partially covers his mouth, presumably because the truth is too horrible to say outright but it also feels a lot like the character’s half-truth in ANH about Anakin’s death. That Obi-wan is even now willing to twist the truth to persuade leads right into the OT.
That’s a very intriguing idea, since it seems to fit his character in ANH. Almost like the beginning of him needing to spin the truth regarding anakin starting with Padme. Interesting.
And of course, he’s coming right from the temple massacre and knows Anakin has sided with Sidious. So even if Anakin didn’t pull out a lightsaber in the temple I imagine he’s still almost as much at fault in Obi-wan’s estimation.
JEDIT: Another small benefit is that Anakin’s sword is no longer the Youngling Slayer 3000 which makes TheRiseofSkywalkerslighlylessreprehensibleohwhoamIkiddingnothingisgoingtomatterthere
“F$#k anyone criticizing fan edits and the like, and f&@k anyone pointing out misguidedness”
And yet…you’re on a fanedit forum. The idea of fanedits seems to deeply confuse you and you seem to hate them, so I have to ask why you’re even here. If you want to talk about how perfect every official Star Wars product is, there’s an entire section of the forum for that. But it’s not here.
In ANH Obi-Wan described Vader as having hunted down the Jedi, so your idea conflicts with that.
Also, so… Obi-Wan’s lying to Padmé to locate Anakin?
I can’t believe I’m engaging with Testing again but… plenty of Jedi survived Order 66. In both the old EU and the current canon, there are many comics and stories of Vader finding and killing these survivors. Vader killing most of them when they were all rounded up in a temple is barely “hunting down” to begin with!
Okay, but how would Obi-Wan know about that?
I consider this another bonus to the idea since it leads the audience to imagine events between films instead of connecting every dot like the audience is comprised entirely of infants.
Bold, intriguing idea. One milder spin on it could be that Obi-Wan sincerely thinks Anakin killed the younglings because he finds the bodies with lightsaber wounds (inflicted by Sidious himself), then finds the hologram of Sidious telling Anakin to “bring peace to the Empire” (maybe with the implication being the Jedi bugged the Chancellor’s office, further highlighting how morally-compromised the Order has become), and draws an understandable but erroneous conclusion with disastrous consequences.
That’s a possibility, though it may become too confusing. The cleanest idea would probably be to just cut Yoda’s line about the lightsaber wounds.
Rewatching the scene of Obi-wan confronting Padme, the camera really focuses on Obi-wan as he speaks about the Younglings. It’s interesting how he turns away from Padme and partially covers his mouth, presumably because the truth is too horrible to say outright but it also feels a lot like the character’s half-truth in ANH about Anakin’s death. That Obi-wan is even now willing to twist the truth to persuade leads right into the OT.
I just thought of a change to ROTS here, but I was wondering if it was at all possible to do in an edit, and if anyone had tried it before.
It seems like it would be possible through cuts. Here’s what I’m imagining - The end of the film is changed so Anakin never murders the Younglings or even goes to the temple. He leaves directly for Mustafar to end the war, and Order 66 happens en-route. Obi-wan then concocts the Youngling killing lie to get Padme to go to Anakin, whereupon they have their tragic fight.
Changes to the Chancellor’s office:
“What have I done?!”
“You’re fulfilling your destiny, Anakin.”
“Just help me save Padme’s life…I can’t live without her.”
“To cheat death is a power only one has achieved, but if we work together, I’m sure we can discover the secret.”
“I pledge myself to your teachings.”
“Good. Good. Henceforth, you shall be known as…Vader. Rise.”
“Do what must be done, Lord Vader. Do not hesitate, show no mercy. Only then will you be strong enough to save Padme.”
“What about the Jedi spread across the galaxy?”
“Their betrayal will be dealt with. Go to the Mustafar system. Wipe out Viceroy Gunray and the other Separatist leaders. Then…we shall have peace.”
Cut the scenes of Anakin at the temple, and any mention of the Temple attack.
In the scene where Anakin leaves for Mustafar, cut the talk of the attack and of the Jedi already killed. Anakin’s hope that Obi-wan remains loyal to the Chancellor could be sincere. His mission to kill the Separatists is now the act which will make him strong enough to save Padme, which is why he promises that things will be different when he returns.
After this scene, Palpatine orders 66. The Jedi are killed and Anakin feels their deaths before he arrives on Mustafar. Anakin doesn’t kill Younglings and Obi-wan doesn’t find a recording to this effect. His conversation with Padme however does have him say that he has found such a recording, which the audience knows to be a lie since Anakin left before the temple attack. This goads Padme into trying to find Anakin to ascertain the truth, and Anakin’s anger at Obi-wan’s lie is genuine. The end of the film is far more tragic now that Obi-wan can be said to have torn the two apart…from a certain point of view.
I’m interpreting this as the one large or small change that would most improve each film in a vacuum.
TPM: Tweak Jar Jar’s character so that he is a jaded observer of the galaxy and a cynic of everyone in it.
AOTC: Anakin and Padme go to Tatooine out of a shared concern for Shmi due to Anakin and Padme having worked together to free her and many of Tatooine’s slaves some years prior, only to find that she is dead by the time they get there. Anakin’s murder of Tuskens is re-contextualized as a dream.
ROTS: After Anakin saves Palpatine from Mace Windu, Palpatine immediately sends Anakin on the mission to defeat the Separatists on Mustafar. As Anakin kills the Separatists Palpatine initiates Order 66, and the trauma of the massive death toll sends Anakin over the edge. He realizes the situation is out of his control but his final choice isn’t made until Obi-wan arrives to confront him, assuming the worst.
ANH: Instead of a speeder, Luke takes his new, souped-up Skyhopper out to search for R2. He reluctantly parts with the beautiful craft in Mos Eisley, which makes his disgust at Han’s ugly ship all the more dramatic.
ESB: Give Han and Leia a shared experience they discuss during the film where they expressed their attraction and even had a relationship until Han got cold feet regarding the Rebellion.
ROTJ: Leia is not confirmed to be Luke’s sister. ‘The other’ Yoda mentioned in ESB is explained to be a vision where he sensed another Skywalker defeating the Emperor, and Yoda postulates that Luke could have a twin. Obi-wan says that this is possible, and Luke suspects that it is Leia which Obi-wan neither confirms nor denies. The vision is fulfilled as Anakin destroys the Emperor and it is left unclear what Luke believes at the end.
TFA: The First Order is just the Imperial Remnant using their old battle-worn tech and the Death Star prototype seen in ROTS with the equatorial weapon. This weapon is still just a skeleton of a station which has only a hyperspace ring, but it is sent to crash into the Hosnian system. The Resistance dogfights through the structure in an attempt to find a central generator to destroy the station, but it’s so incomplete that the mission fails and the station crashes into the Hosnian system, destroying the capital.
TLJ: Canto Bight is located aboard the city-ship Supremacy. Finn and Rose infiltrate the ship and go to the onboard casino in an attempt to find out how Hyperspace tracking works from the scientist who developed the tech…which the First Order keeps near for security (Notes of Jango Fett, it rhymes). They find DJ instead and he betrays them, but Rose gets a good look at the tracking room and realizes that a part of the Supremacy is permanently in Hyperspace in order for the tracker to work. Finn gets the message out to Poe who relays it to Holdo, who then in full knowledge of this weakness uses the Raddus as a Hyperspace ram.
TROS: Get an actual writer.
Your interpretation is the one that I think most people have, as did I for a long time. Yoda clearly states that the cave is an ‘abode of evil’ and ‘strong with the Dark Side of the Force’. If you believe Yoda, then that must be true. All I’m saying is that maybe this was another trick by Yoda to give Luke a lesson.
The whole planet is teeming with life and the Force, and Luke is tapping into areas of this Force that he doesn’t fully understand. He suddenly feels that something is wrong, he feels cold. He assumes that it’s something exterior to him since he says ‘There’s something not right’ as he looks into the darkness of the trees. Yoda immediately confirms Luke’s suspicions, but hedges when he says that the only thing there is ‘what you take with you’. This implies that there is no danger from the dark cave, but only from Luke himself. This is emphasized when he tells Luke that he will not need his weapons. Luke takes them anyway, set in his view that the darkness is exterior to himself, a foe to be defeated.
As Luke descends into the cave his fear increases. Snakes and other creatures squirm their way through the vines, adding to his unease. It becomes too dark to see clearly, and at this point he is trusting to his own feelings in the Force to guide him, feelings driven by fear and an expectation of an exterior threat. And so he sees something strange - a stone hallway cut into the muck of the swamp, draped in vines. From the hallway comes Vader and they do battle. Clearly the figure of Vader is an illusion, but the hallway is suspect as well. Who would build such a thing in the swamp, a place with no evidence of buildings or technology?
And so comes my point - why should this place be different from any other place on Dagobah? All places on the planet have life and death, fear and peace in similar amounts. The great processes of life do not change simply because they happen in a creepy cave, so to believe Yoda we must accept that the cave has some Dark Side associated with it from sources unknown. Since this source is never revealed then it’s anyone’s guess if Yoda is telling the truth or merely playing on Luke’s own feelings.
My interpretation is that the real reason this cave is strong with the Dark Side is because Luke is there, and the Dark Side has a hold on him. The cave is just a cave, drenched in the living Force but not necessarily good or bad. He turns the energy in the cave to the Dark Side with his expectation and fear, and it responds in kind. He could have had the same experience in the woods or swimming in the swamp if his expectation was similarly primed and his bearings taken away. Keep in mind that during a similar training exercise he has a dramatic vision without being in a place that is established to be strong with the light or Dark side. A vision can happen anywhere to Luke as he opens himself to the power of the Force; it is only the suggestion of Yoda which directs the course of the Dark Side lesson.
That you think a 2,600 word defense is necessary speaks volumes on its own.
Yeah, Artan’s post practically proves my point, and I’m not even that big on lionizing the characters of the OT.
Artan42 said:
Luckily Ahsoka is there to tie together the much more interesting parts of the saga than ‘whining farmhand tries to make genocidal tyrant good again’ and long may that continue.
Far be it from me to summarize the entire OT, but Luke’s belief in the inherent goodness of his father strikes me as a fairly central takeaway. If that doesn’t appeal to you Artan…maybe Star Wars isn’t your thing?
Just because you can contort a defense for a creative decision doesn’t mean that the decision was creatively appropriate or even justified.
I get it if young people feel like they don’t need the vaccine. I don’t agree with them since the virus can strike down anyone, but I get it. But people like my parents who are in their sixties have a significantly higher risk of serious sickness or death have no good reason not to protect themselves.
I’ve already been to two funerals this year, I am really not looking forward to any more.
Whoa, those last few pages felt like the old Off-Topic had come back for a bit. I kinda liked it.
Sorry, that wasn’t bitching about something. Ahem. My parents refuse to get a free vaccine that could prevent serious sickness and/or death to themselves and others…and I am totally powerless to change that fact.
Yeah, and there’s the mischievous aspect of Yoda coming through as he would know that a scary nearby cave would be a good lesson for Luke.
I wish this explanation worked as well for The Last Jedi. For that to work Rey would need to be subconsciously visualizing this darkness as within the cave beneath the island, though maybe the cave actually does have a Dark Side aspect in this case since it’s part of a legitimately ancient Jedi site. Eh, it’s not as concerning to me.
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_Side_Cave
Nah, it was tainted by some Darksider at some point. Which is dumb.
Luke’s test in the Dark Side cave on Dagobah was purely a fight with his inner darkness. Through his training, Luke was sensing more and more his own dark potential which Yoda redirected by telling him that the darkness existed within an entirely normal cave. This allowed Luke to exteriorize an interior feeling and bring it to light.
You heard it here first, folks. Anakin’s only student being alive and able to confront him is ‘completely unrelated to the story of Vader’s redemption’.
Her existence in the OT period pretty effectively short-circuits the dramatic stakes of those movies.
In ten years, people will view the adventures of Luke Skywalker as a footnote to Ahsoka Tano’s mythic battle against the Thrawn Ascendancy.
If Palpatine was still alive in some capacity then Luke’s statement about there being balance for many years after Endor would have been simply untrue.
I would also like to know how one becomes a moderator. They are the best members on this website.
I think you just answered your own question there.
That was a fun ride, SP!
Sherlock’s line sounds good to me. Star Wars to me is best when it doesn’t try to overexplain things, so it might edge out the original line here.
Also, I didn’t realize that Luke said “Well, more wealth than you can imagine!” to Han. I always heard what he said as “Well, more well than you can imagine!”
I would go so far as to say that this was a straight-up bad take by Hamill because I still can only hear ‘well’.
Lightsabers are too bright for a normal observer in the Star Wars galaxy to discern their colors. It is only when a recording is made that the colors become visible. This is why nobody comments on the color of the blades in the films.