Updated the prior mockup with the shot stabilized and the front console moved down. Next up - removing the camera and crowd.
This implies that JJ cares about anything past ANH where Luke was the galaxy-saving hero.
Oh it’s Star Wars related, JJ.
I think if the Vader scene had some lead-up, such as a scene where the Rebels worry about this ‘Vader’ character that seems to be close to discovering their operation, then it would work a lot better. As it is it comes rather out of left field in the context of the film and feels gratuitous in its horror and violence. I wouldn’t say it portrays Vader as a cool badass, but I understand why some would think this way.
In any case, RO’s problems are bigger than this one scene.
I haven’t made much progress recently, due to the fact that I’m working in art full-time and unfortunately that takes most of my creative energy. I haven’t forgotten about the project of course, it just might take longer than I originally thought to pull it together.
TLJ had the unenviable job of reconciling the characterization of Luke in TFA of being simultaneously a mere man with some Force power and also the most dangerous and powerful person in the galaxy, capable of singlehandedly saving or destroying empires.
I think making Luke into the cantankerous hermit he became is a fairly deft way of solving the problem, since it’s still imperative that Luke not take up too much of the air in the room and leave some for the new cast. Sure, it makes more sense for this Jedi Master to be actively working on a new Jedi Order but the same could be said for Yoda in ESB.
The problem of Luke is one of JJ trying to have his cake and eat it. Luke can’t simultaneously be the savior of the galaxy in perpetuity while also allowing the new heroes to shine. Luke’s death in my opinion was the first chance for the ST to really stand on its own creative feet, and it should have happened in TFA like the death of Obi-wan. Of course JJ couldn’t write an ending to Jenga so we got TROS, but the chance for greatness was there, set up by Rian’s necessary choice.
I think one of the main reasons there aren’t more good prequels is that they work best when recontextualizing the world, characters, or events of the original film in a way that makes them better in hindsight. However, if the film badly needs this recontextualization it usually wouldn’t be a good enough film to financially or creatively warrant any prequel or sequel. This leaves making prequels to successful, self contained stories that have narratively ended which almost always ends up lessening the impact of the original, not improving it.
Also, people are usually really drawn to the characters and world of the original films, which is why they would be interested in making prequels to them, and this means that unless they’re a madman like George they won’t significantly change the world or characters resulting in flat or nonexistent arcs like the monolithically powerful Rebellion in RO compared to later films.
Prequels barely work in general.
Can people really come up with any prequels outside of SW that enhance the original?
Temple of Doom.
Does that really have any impact at all on the original? Does it change anything about the storyline or characters in Indy 1?
Temple of Doom may be a good MOVIE, but does it actually have any relevance as a prequel? Could it be a sequel and change nothing?
You’re right, it could be a sequel. It’s just the first thing that popped into my head. 😉
Prequels barely work in general.
Can people really come up with any prequels outside of SW that enhance the original?
Temple of Doom.
The score for ROTS is just overlapping instances of Jedi Rocks.
The show could still exist, and in arguably stronger form if it continued to focus on a small-scale planetary conflict or several conflicts simultaneously. All that the crawl in ANH states is that this military force has had no victories against the Empire, implying that the Alliance has been newly organized from many smaller cells just before ANH or that the Alliance has failed to take unified action before the events precipitating ANH. Heck, since the crawl doesn’t specify the Alliance it could simply be that the Organa family has their own isolated cell which has been building in strength for a long time but has only been deployed to specifically combat the Death Star threat. The Organas could have been pacifists until that point while other cells tried and failed to act on their own.
This continued insistence on battles similar to those in the OT continues to kneecap these golden opportunities to craft stories distinct from the now slate grey storytelling of most EU content.
The big thing for me is the spy aspect of RO since it’s played up with several references in ANH, especially in the omniscient crawl. I (and I’m sure others) were hoping for and even expecting a spy thriller set in the Star Wars universe, whereas what we got was more of a disaster/war movie with several large military engagements and several attacks from a weapon that is only fully complete in the next film.
I remember in the lead-up to release people were talking about how the plans would be stolen, going through scenarios such as infiltrating Imperial social functions or even getting close to a high-ranking official with a female spy. Star Wars in my opinion is great when it works in different genres, such as ESB having a more horror aspect, ROTS being operatic tragedy, or AOTC having elements of Rebel Without a Cause mixed with detective noir. RO had the potential to push the envelope again into Spy Thriller territory, and when we got more boilerplate Star Wars with only a minor twist it felt like a missed opportunity.
None of this is to take away from the many great things about RO, by the way, or to say that anyone’s wrong for liking the film as-is. I’m happy with so many of the things we got, but I can’t help but feel like there was a more clear and daring choice.
That’s it! Beautiful.
Also, I apologize if my engagement in the thread has led to anguish and misery for anyone; that was never my intent and I will try in the future to not engage with anyone out of annoyance.
I completely agree with your interpretation of events in both films and how they are incongruous with each other. In fact, I’ve argued for this point several times on these forums.
This isn’t to say that RO is a bad prequel due to this. The materially problematic events only happen at the very end of RO and could be changed via fanedit, leaving the rest of the film basically the same.
The bigger issue here is one of spirit. As you said, Vader is following on the trail of Rebel spies which stole the plans during a battle and lead to Leia and to her alone. She is the only link Vader has to the Rebellion, and this explains why he is so bold and ruthless in pursuing her across the galaxy.
Contrast this to RO, where Vader has captured an entire Rebel capital ship presumably with logs detailing many potential leads. The shadowy web of spies are instead enemy combatants brashly breaking into a military installation on a whim, initially with no greater support in the Rebellion. Where the opening of ANH could imply a victory long-planned by the Rebellion, it is instead a chaotic near-failure at every turn. Sure, it makes for a wild ride, but the word spies implies some level of professional subterfuge that simply doesn’t exist in RO. I would not consider any of the main crew of RO ‘spies’ except for perhaps the defecting pilot Bodhi Rook and even then his spying was coincidental and not premeditated. Perhaps Cassian Andor is more of a professional spy, but we never see this in action.
Furthermore, it is implied that the Rebel spies were operating under cover of a separate, perhaps diversionary, battle instead of a group of rogue combatants dragging the rest of the fleet into a desperate action. Of course there’s some amount of speculation here but if the brief original crawl specifies two distinct groups (spies and combatants in a battle), then I would expect these to actually be functionally distinct in the plot of the prequel.
Finally, to expand on your point that Leia had plausible deniability in the original, I would go further and say that Leia’s presence at the battle, combined with knowledge of a weapon which can destroy planets, heavily implies that the Organas knew full well that they were putting their planet in deadly peril. I cannot put into words how reckless this makes the Organas out to be in the context of ANH, and it takes away from the tragedy of Alderaan’s destruction knowing that their rulers acted knowing their hand could so easily be revealed.
The worst part he killed his father over a lie. A trick of a Sith Lord. And somehow Leia and Luke never mentioned Anakin’s redemption and somehow Hayden Anakin never appeared to him as a force ghost to set him straight. Its plenty convenient.
The reason I actually like Anakin the ghost not appearing to Kylo is because the ST is perhaps accidentally in line with the theory that Force Ghosts only appear to those who knew the person in life.
And while I appreciate the work, I feel the scene as it is in V1 works better in the order it is. Just two bordering establishing shots of the Falcon.
And, if anything, I’d prefer to imply 3PO never regains his memory other than R2 verbally bringing him up to speed. I don’t think invoking prequel memories would be advisable or possible to pull off.
Agreed wholeheartedly. Leaving his memories “permanently” wiped would give his arc at least some impact.
Doesn’t the impact come from the initial trauma/reaction from the audience of seeing 3PO’s memories get wiped?
They’re clearly talking about the entire arc, not a single moment.
Why does Rey care about Leia’s “blessing”?
(I think) The point is that Rey doesn’t feel worthy. (In my subjective opinion) she’s always felt this way. She even hands back the saber to Leia, earlier in the movie directly after getting the Force visions.
There, that’s all you had to say.
Well this thread is kinda a downer, init?
Rather than repeat what everyone else has so eloquently enunciated about the flawed first two entries being entirely buried under the avalanche of TROS’s inadequacies, I think I’ll turn an optimistic eye toward…THE FUTURE BUM BUM BUM.
Y’all remember how the Prequels were the worst things ever which totally destroyed all interest in Star Wars until the kids who grew up with them got terminally online with their nostalgia and were backed up by the competent character resuscitation known as the Clone Wars?
The same thing’s gonna happen to the Sequels.
Give it eight to ten years and I all-but guarantee that the most glaring character deficiencies and plot holes of that entire time period will be enthusiastically backfilled by the creative team at Lucasfilm with the Thrawn streaming show and Resistance Rebooted Part IV or whatever they come up with to bridge the month between TLJ and TROS. We’ll all be looking back at TROS as that critical flop that nevertheless paved the way for the brilliant arc in Season 3 of Ahsoka where she confronts the Sith Eternal while Rey is simultaneously confronting the specter of Palpatine reborn.
The machine never ends, and even the most disastrous films are merely fodder for future stories where fan dissatisfaction is harnessed and transmogrified into jubilation when the narrative justice denied the films is retroactively rendered in cinematic CGI upon the small screen.
I guess that’s optimism, anyway.
Yeah, I always thought the original version sounded fine, but I can also understand the argument about changing the inflection of the sentence.
With that said, what do we think of this? https://streamable.com/omqjmh
The inflection feels right now, there’s just a slight ‘garbled’ quality at the beginning of the word if that makes sense.
“Vader was seduced by the Dark Side of the Force.”
“The Force?”
“A good story…for another time.”
The Dark Side is a pathway to many abilities
Since we’re still waiting on the last VFX shots anyway, I’ll probably try to smooth out that fade into “end” a bit more. But now I know to focus my efforts on Version B. Thanks for the feedback, everyone! I’m glad to know it’s so close!
If you’re still working on it, my thought on it is that the sound is a bit muffled compared to the rest of the line. I only say this because it may be a bit unclear to a first-time viewer.
It’s still a bit noticeable to me having experienced the evolution of the line, but if I heard that in the theater I probably wouldn’t have noticed.
Thumbs up!
I amended my comment to specify anyone who is able to should get the vaccine - yours sounds like a legitimate health concern, and I respect that - but for the most part this is science, not “different opinions.” It shouldn’t be controversial to say that vaccines are important.
True. The science suggests that for greater than 99% of the population, the risks of the vaccine are far lower than the risk of getting Covid.
Not that I want to turn this into a Covid thread; just me offering moral support to a friend.
More true. Let’s keep this on topic.
Maybe it would work better to just have this:
“Who are you?”
“I’m a Skywalker.”
fin.
It still feels a bit odd to jump from an interior to an exterior right back to the interior.
In The Director and the Jedi, there are some unused closeups of the droids and Chewie from that wideshot. Perhaps one of those shots could be used to pad out the timing. The shots are at 1:28:16 in the documentary.