NeverarGreat

^
My approach to editing ROTJ leans a bit more conservative, and doesn’t require seeing the PT to understand the OT, so I think some explanation of Luke’s sister is necessary, otherwise it comes out of nowhere in the context of the film.

RL, I don’t think that two Vader/Boba scenes would be necessary - like you said, a little exposition goes a long way. However, I do worry that the segue scene runs the risk of not having enough dialogue to feel complete. The scenes, especially in the beginning of the film, are rather long, so having such a brief moment may be awkward.

I agree that any shots we included would need to feel like they could have come from the 80’s, but I think the shot from the show could be made to look grungy enough, especially if we rotoscoped a matte painting of the desert into the background or something.

Also, and this is just an observation and doesn’t necessarily tie into the Boba discussion, but I noticed a potential continuity issue if the palace song and dance number comes before the droid entrance. Oola, the dancer, is cast into the Rancor pit at the end of the song only to appear by Jabba’s tail in the droid entrance. This is only a potential issue since it could be that she’s a replacement dancer, or that he merely dropped her into the pit as a warning and didn’t release the Rancor on her. This may be some indication of why Boba didn’t immediately try to stop the Rancor attack - he may have assumed it was just another power play by Jabba. Then when we see the Rancor appear, Boba is at Jabba’s side, perhaps discussing the Sarlacc gambit.

There’s a shot of Boba right beside Jabba during Luke’s Rancor fight, so it fits well with that.

JEDIT: I also like the questions this Boba plot raises for the Emperor’s arrival scene.

Emperor: “And now I sense that you wish to continue your search for young Skywalker.”
Vader: (long pause) “Yes, my master.”

In the theatrical version, I always interpreted this pause to mean “No shit, Sheev. It’s been my sole character motivation for over a year.”

But in this version, that pause could be Vader wondering if the Emperor knows of his continued attempts to capture Luke on the sly, or if the Emperor knows whether or not his latest attempt succeeded.

I was thinking about your ideas last night, RL, and wonder if the Vader/Boba scene wouldn’t merely confuse as many things as it illumines. For example, now that Boba is explicitly on a mission to take Luke alive, it throws later events into a strange light such as Jabba trying to kill Luke first with the Rancor and then with the Sarlacc. In ESB Boba was concerned for Han’s safety since Jabba wanted Han alive, but in this Boba looks on mutely while Jabba tries to kill Luke. Granted, perhaps Jabba isn’t in on the scheme and is a loose cannon in Boba’s plan, but one would think that he would at least try to influence Jabba’s decisions.

This brings me to the idea: What if it is Boba’s intention to incapacitate Luke in the Sarlacc?

Boba clearly knows how difficult it is to trap a Jedi since even Vader couldn’t do it in ESB, so he would rely not merely on his own power nor on Jabba’s henchmen nor another failed Carbonite gambit. No, the only way he would see to bring in his quarry would be to turn Jabba’s entire force on the Jedi and force him into the most inescapable place on the planet, from which he could extricate his wounded quarry at his convenience.

But how to convey this plan? Probably the easiest way would be for there to be a schematic on Vader’s screen of the Sarlacc, or the shot from the Boba show where he hovers over the pit, distorted of course.

Vader: “You have something, bounty hunter?”
Boba: (Shows Sarlacc view)
Vader: “I want him alive.”
Boba: “If he’s a Jedi, he will survive.”
Vader: “Very well. Once you have Skywalker, bring him to me.”
Boba: “As you wish.”

If this scene worked, Boba’s fate would become absolutely poetic.

Of course. As long as it make you happy, that’s all that really matters 😃

The terminator line on the Death Star is clearly tilted at about thirty degrees, meaning that either the light must arrive from the extreme upper right side of the frame or the Death Star itself needs to be rotated thirty degrees clockwise in the frame to match the current sun location.

Of course, realistically the terminator line seems to be bisecting the sphere of the Death Star almost precisely in half, so there would be no way to view the sun in the same frame as the Death Star at this distance. as it would be far to the right of the moon.

I imagine that 4K83 is going to be quite grainy, so any effects work would need to be re-grained for integration. That makes me think that a cleaner Blu-ray source would be better. I think Adywan is using the 2019 version since the Blu-ray is so bad for this film.

At least with a cleaner, more detailed source, it could always be downgraded for use in a more filmic version, whereas it would be more difficult to upscale low-detail work.

I’ve sent you what I have, and if you decide to use another source I will happily use whatever you provide 😃

RogueLeader said:

Nev, maybe you could share that background you made for the capture scene?

Gladly! However, it is cobbled from bits of 4K83 since I don’t have any other version on hand. If you had a more detailed source to share I would be happy to do a more polished job.

The shots I used were several frames from where Leia sneaks down the entrance stairs plus the shot where Leia pulls Han to his feet (for the curtain in the background).

Lots of good ideas, RL! It’s becoming clear that Boba Fett is the key to all this…if we can get him working.

The nice thing about the Vader to Boba segue is that any scene set on Tatooine would work there, such as the dance number. You could just have the shot from the Special Edition of Boba entering the party sometime during the song to imply that he just got off the phone with his boss. Heck, just replace the existing shot of him in Lapti Nek and call it a day 😉

Hal 9000 said:

I wonder if we’ll meet Luke’s dog. I hope so.

In ESB, Luke’s smile in the medical center is actually him reminiscing about his dog, Scruffy.

Yes, I think the way it appears theatrically makes more sense, in terms of how it’s flipped. However, that’s just a still image mockup, I didn’t test it in motion.

I will say Boba’s placement in the theatrical shot makes it feel odd. In the original shot Boba is pointing his gun toward the side of the frame with less space, which is odd from a framing standpoint. I think in either case, flipped or unflipped, he would need to be reframed like he is in my mockup to point the gun toward the area of the frame with more space.

Breaking it down, in the first shot Leia looks up and slightly to the left, as if she’s looking at something above and to the left of the camera.

In the flipped Boba shots, he slowly raises the gun but it is also pointing to the left, implying that he is aiming at something to the left of camera.

Putting them together, it feels like the camera is jumping from one side of the 180 degree line to the other. I will agree that it’s a bit unclear where the eyelines are supposed to be going and the camera is almost on that 180 degree line already.

I stumbled across this image here and ignoring the weird assertion that this is responding to (Of course women grew up on Star Wars), I was curious: would this costume have required a viewer with non-insider knowledge to fabricate it out of memory? It would certainly be possible to sit in the theater (perhaps a drive-in) with a sketchbook and take notes, but I imagine that there would have been promotional materials of the pilots such as lobby cards, magazine photos, and newspaper articles.

This is the only poster I could find of the pilot costume, and even then I’m not sure if it was from '77.

So purely academically, is there evidence of Rebel pilot images appearing in print in 1977?

JEDIT: I found a set of oversize character portraits that were available at the time from here, one of which is of Luke in uniform, and another which contains the full uniform from the side.

Notably, however, the high-quality image of Luke is reversed so anyone working directly from that image would have to have other reference for that and the helmet.

Finally, Marvel Star Wars comic #5 has many views of the Rebel pilots, and the comic released on August 10, 1977. Obviously they are not detailed enough to work as reference for the costume in the original photo.

So my question remains: Would there have been a high-quality reference of Luke in uniform to base a costume off of, or is it more likely that she did drawings (or snapped a polaroid of the screen?)

Very promising! I’d forgotten that he raises his gun in the palace. I imagine that there would need to be some power windows to make it seem like he’s emerging from the shadows. It may be better to keep the shot of Boba unflipped though, since flipping it here breaks the 180 degree rule.

Also, maybe there could be a Temuera Morrison line that could be used during the transition between shots, like a mocking ‘Not so fast, bounty hunter!’ Maybe something from the new show?

JEDIT: Canonically, there’s a stairway in the direction he appears so I made a mockup of it. In any case, there should probably be a curtain that is pulled back offscreen since the curtain can be seen in previous shots.

Sorry about the copious notes, I’m really just working the problem out-loud.

RogueLeader said:

*Alter their capture so Boba Fett catches them instead of the whole palace hiding behind curtains

As I mentioned before, it’s a neat idea but I simply can’t visualize how that would work with the available footage. Would be interested in seeing a mockup though 😃

The thing with Restructured was that the idea was already fairly latent in the film, just sort of waiting to be expressed. Many people had thought of the idea around the same time so it was just a matter of making a fairly obvious improvement to the story.

With ROTJ, there are certainly some dramatic changes one could make but I haven’t yet seen one for this film that would significantly improve it, or at least it would have some substantial downsides. As well, I think there’s a bit more sanctity with the OT vs the ST where we would just throw things at the wall to see what stuck. No matter what is cut, there will be people who object on the basis of it being a favorite childhood moment or something.

I feel the pacing issue of the opening as well, and wish there was more connective tissue between Vader’s arrival and the Tatooine plot. Unfortunately, it has always felt a bit like cleanup from the previous movie. Spence’s edit puts Luke’s Dagobah scene after the Vader introduction, which makes sense, but that still doesn’t help the introduction of Jabba’s palace. The Vader deleted scene has always felt more like a quickly abandoned concept than a finished scene, unfortunately, and the dialogue is rather goofy.

It would be interesting to see a mockup of the transition from Vader’s arrival to the dance scene in the palace, since that would at least go from the interior of one villain’s lair to another.

Since this is the beginning of the thread, I guess it makes sense to start at the beginning. RL and I were recently discussing how to improve the first act, and these were my thoughts on it: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1475964 This is similar to Spence’s cut but keeps the Dagobah scene in place.

In short, establish in the crawl that Luke is training in isolation to become a Jedi and Leia has gone ahead with a plan to rescue Han. After the arrival of Vader, cut to the musical number at Jabba’s palace and then Bounty for a Wookiee and Leia’s failed plan to rescue Han. Luke then sends the droids in using part of a deleted scene and the movie goes from there.

For that sequence to work, 3PO would need to be painted out of several shots in Jabba’s palace and/or cut around during the bounty scene, but apart from some cleanup of the deleted scene it is pretty straightforward.

Thoughts?

That works pretty well! It’s a shame there isn’t some final shot of Padme reacting to Nute, but there isn’t much to work with.

Bobson Dugnutt said:

NeverarGreat said:

Alec Guinness did say at the time that the Battle of Yavin ran about five minutes too long.

I can’t believe he saw SW Revisited and had that to say about it. What a critic.

Definitely. What a smart Alec.

Alec Guinness did say at the time that the Battle of Yavin ran about five minutes too long.

There’s also the continuity with the final battle to consider, where Palpatine’s far stronger lightning merely acts to disable many ships. What if Rey’s lightning shorted out the engines and she recoiled in shock, then the ship regained power and continued its flight? Because as the scene plays now, it acts to establish that Force Lightning can blow up entire ships so Palpatine pulling this punch in the final battle feels even more hollow.

Looking back at the scene, this might play better than before since it would explain why Finn yells ‘No!’ as if he bet on a podracer that didn’t win.

I agree that it’s an effective scene in isolation, but as you say it’s more effective for what it promises than for what it delivers. I guess it comes down to whether a shocking moment should remain for its own sake or whether it should serve a more organic whole.

Btw, I didn’t mean to imply that the lightning is intentional on Rey’s part. I would imagine in either case that it comes unbidden to the surface, so I see no conflict with your intent. Rey still has latent darkness that she struggles against and yet is drawn to, it would just be more seductive due to not (apparently) killing her friend.

What if we had our cake and ate it too?

Show some lightning but not the full blast, allowing the ship to escape. A few thin tendrils escaping her fingers would highlight that the power is coming from a dark place while not being so destructive that it would frighten her out of using it.

^Indeed, sounds like fun. I would only worry that someone might feel slighted if excluded from such a club, intentionally or not.

I think it would be a good idea for someone to start a thread for such a project, allowing time for anyone who wishes to partake ample opportunity to chime in. Of course, anyone could contribute even if they didn’t have direct say in what changes to make, just like I could suggest changes for your projects but it was ultimately your call. In that spirit, I hereby nominate Eddie to assemble the League of Extraordinary Faneditors!

Thanks Omni!

Also, Hal:

If I understand right, we would agree on someone who is solely tasked with gathering a council, and that council when gathered would appoint one of their own to be a leader.

I imagine that it would be an entire saga edit using an expanded form of the process of Restructured or Ascendant, where people would submit ideas but one person (or in this case some evil council) decided what ultimately made the cut.