NeverarGreat

I’m still not entirely happy with the final paragraph, since the movie resists all efforts to simplify the political situation. The deleted scene with Leia implies that the Senate at large will refuse to even listen to her, which means that the Senate at large doesn’t view the First Order as a threat. There’s also the odd language Hux uses in his speech about the New Republic ‘lying to the galaxy while secretly supporting the treachery of the loathsome Resistance’. It strikes me that Hux feels personally betrayed in some way by the Republic, even though he views the two governments to be at war. Granted it could all be fascistic propaganda, but it would be nice for it to mean something to the story beyond fiery words.

So I got to thinking, what if the First Order made a specific offer to the New Republic?

The galaxy is in crisis.
Luke Skywalker, striving
to restore the legendary
Jedi Order, has vanished.

In his absence, agents
bearing the mark of the
IMPERIAL FIRST ORDER
have emerged from exile
seeking to rejoin the
peaceful New Republic
on the condition that the
ancient Jedi be declared
extinct.

Suspicious of this peace
offering, members of the
bitterly divided Senate
have secretly called upon
a daring RESISTANCE
to discover whether the
last Jedi still lives amid
the darkening stars…

I don’t know if I’ll go in this direction, but it’s a rather compelling take.

For one, it explains why the First Order is so intent on destroying Luke - he would see through their deception immediately and would have the popularity and power to oppose them. And by so publicly claiming the Jedi to be extinct, Luke has become their greatest potential PR liability, adding more power to his reappearance in TLJ.

It also explains the First Order’s original plan, which would have been to take over the Republic from the inside (as described in the novels). When the Resistance gets in the way they change the plan to destroying the Hosnian System and taking over in the ensuing chaos.

The Starkiller weapon is almost necessary in the context of this story framing, since the First Order merely having a large fleet and army wouldn’t necessarily be an insurmountable issue to joining the Republic, but the existence of a superweapon instantly and completely shows them for the villains they are.

This framing also explains the change from the Empire to the First Order, since the organization is clearly trying (and failing) to put on a different facade. The fact that their ships and troops look the same but different works thematically rather than it coming across as entirely lazy.

Finally, the rather odd worldbuilding decision to create a galaxy free of the Jedi makes sense here since it’s a necessary condition for this setup. Rey viewing Luke and the Jedi as a myth is thematically important, as is the film’s interest in rediscovering their power.

Well, you’ve convinced me, y’all 😃

They’re all good crawls, y’all. It’s just that there are a ton of restraints on the crawl that need to be taken into consideration, or rather, things that I feel are important to a nice-looking crawl.

For example, there are only about 25 characters (including spaces) to work with on each line. ‘Jedi Knights, has vanished.’ is 27 characters, but that’s pushing it.

The number of lines is also important for the timing of the crawl to sync up with the music. I’ve found that a 4 line, 9 line, 8 line crawl is optimal.

So the thing is, these crawls while good largely won’t work with my constraints. that’s what makes it so challenging, as flowing sentences often become unworkable due to word length.

JEDIT: Here’s what I’m working with right now:

It is a time of despair.
Luke Skywalker, striving
to restore the legendary
Jedi Knights, has vanished.

In his absence, legions
of brutal warriors under
the command of the
IMPERIAL FIRST ORDER
have emerged from a
mysterious hidden base
to terrorize star systems
throughout the peaceful
New Republic.

Overwhelmed by chaos,
several members of the
bitterly divided Senate
have secretly called upon
a daring RESISTANCE
to find the last Jedi and
restore peace and justice
to the darkening stars…

Well Tzetzo, it’s a well-articulated introduction but it’s too wordy for an actual crawl. As a point of comparison, the original crawl to the film was 88 words and I’m trying to keep my crawl down to the low to mid 80’s. So 124 words is rather impossible.

Yeah, unless Shaw was replaced with Hayden in both of his scenes, it wouldn’t make sense to me. Heck, I would still prefer Shaw even if that happened.

Nice one! Much to consider.

JEDIT: So having considered it, though it’s nice to have the Imperial fortress before the First Order, it reintroduces that awkward sentence construction that I’ve tried hard to avoid this time.

I worked a bit more on the second paragraph and came up with this:

In Skywalker’s absence,
warriors raised in exile
under the cruelty of the
IMPERIAL FIRST ORDER
have emerged from their
fearsome hidden fortress
to terrorize star systems
throughout the peaceful
New Republic.

This puts the responsibility for malevolence on the First Order rather than the soldiers, and also works in the idea that the Empire was actually exiled after their defeat.

Yeah, even just looking at it I may change ‘IMPERIAL FIRST ORDER’ to ‘sinister FIRST ORDER’ and ‘barbaric hidden fortress’ to ‘hidden Imperial fortress’, which would imply that the Starkiller was first an Imperial project. It’s a shame because I like the whole line taken up by that title, but it may be clearer the other way…

JEDIT: This crawl also threads the needle of the fortress being important to the story without stating that it is a superweapon, which would work for any edit which removes that aspect of the story 😉

So I’ve been sitting with the updated crawl for a while, but it just feels a bit off compared to the structure of the first. I really like going from Luke’s disappearance in the first paragraph to the First Order in the second and the Resistance in the third, that way there’s no splitting of the First Order between the first and third paragraphs. In light of this, here’s the new crawl:

It is a time of despair.
Luke Skywalker, striving
to restore the legendary
Jedi Knights, has vanished.

In Skywalker’s absence,
malevolent forces raised
under the banner of the
IMPERIAL FIRST ORDER
have emerged from their
barbaric hidden fortress
to terrorize star systems
throughout the peaceful
New Republic.

With the Republic falling
into chaos and division,
a few brave senators have
secretly called upon a
daring RESISTANCE to
find the last Jedi and
restore peace and justice
to the darkening stars…

I believe this fixes the two biggest issues people took with the first crawl, namely the run-on sentence in the second paragraph and the inaccurate role of the Republic in the story.

Another adjustment was changing ‘Jedi Order’ to ‘Jedi Knights’ because that is a bit more well-known to the average viewer and more illustrative of their role as warriors. I’ve also changed ‘missing Jedi’ to ‘last Jedi’ to clearly state that plot point.

Finally, the word ‘raised’ in the second paragraph has a double meaning as Finn describes being literally raised by the First Order. The word ‘terrorize’ more accurately describes the activities of the First Order at this time (such as the events described in Bloodlines) and offers some explanation of why traditional armies and fleets fielded by the Republic may not be effective against this foe.

I’m pretty happy with this crawl, personally.

I don’t think he looks fat, and honestly I wouldn’t care if he was.

As long as he can soar through the air on the wings of his spinning double bladed red lightsaber, twirling, twirling towards freedom, all else will pale into insignificance.

That is a not-unreasonable take, Jar Jar, but the idea won’t let go of my brain that easily.

You see, the reason why most old castles and ruins on Earth are little more than foundations are because they’ve been robbed out by later inhabitants. If the buildings were merely abandoned they could last for hundreds or thousands of years, as seen with Mayan and Aztec temples. I would imagine that the huts probably would have collapsed over time, but the stones would still be there covered in a growing layer of rain-deposited sediment. If Luke was on the island for a few years it’s easily possible for him to have rebuilt the ones we see in TFA which consist of about two huts and a wall.

All this to say that there’s the potential for an unknown history regarding the island and its unusually pristine structures. Perhaps it was Luke, perhaps it was magic, perhaps it was a race of monastic House Elves which lived on another island and risked attack from violent tribes to keep the relics of a long-forgotten people in working order.

I only wish that the imagination of the viewer would have been given reign over these minor mysteries and reserved explanations for things with true import in the story.

I mean, we could have had a shot of Luke repairing a crumbling hut amid his daily routine. It would have actually made complete sense to give Luke a hobby.

That idea is neat, but I think it would feel out of place considering the setup. The ‘bait’ aspect of the Death Star and the Rebel’s attack plan both hinge on the Death Star being hidden and isolated from the rest of the galaxy and the Imperial fleet. If the Death Star were to be constructed around Coruscant (or moved there at some point in its construction), there would be no way to keep that a secret and so the Death Star would fail to be enticing as a target to the Rebels since they would expect a trap.

^ Love that mockup, RL!

I think, if it’s doable, getting a music-free version of the scene would be a great starting point, then put something else into place if it feels empty.

Though a lot can be done with creature sound effects, and even a very subtle musical idea can give a scene tension, much like the ESB scene of Luke in the Cave.

A lot of good ideas, RL! I second the notion of using the Ewoks with Blasters footage if possible.

Rewatching the feast preparation scene, I suddenly realized why it doesn’t feel threatening: the music. Almost the entire scene has a tribal beat which gives a clear ‘happy festivities’ vibe. The only moment that feels in any way dramatic is when 3PO starts levitating, which also happens to be when the tribal music stops.

My solution would be to remove the tribal music from the scene. It would probably be tricky since there’s so many other sounds, but I am willing to bet that if that scene had only dialogue and sound effects, it would be 200% more creepy.

CloakedDragon97 said:

I don’t really like Airplane that much.

Same. However, I rather expect old comedies to be rather lackluster as a rule, since comedy as a genre fares poorly with distance in either time or place. The reason I have come up with is that since jokes are generally more funny the more situational and specific they are, the less impact they have over time as the nuance of the situations has gradually been lost.

Great find, Bobson!

And yeah, though it was certainly possible to do this in '77, I am leaning toward mistaken memory. If this costume was even from Halloween '78 it would be totally believable, since there were many more high-quality references available.

To answer your question: Yes.

humanracer said:

One change I would easily make is Luke telling Rey she isn’t related to Palpatine at all, that it was a ruse by him and that it was her own strength that defeated him in the end.

Many others agree:

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/REY-NOBODY-A-Collaborative-Thread/id/76772

A few of these are quite fun! I think with quick cuts they would be fairly easy to bend with the surrounding battle, and as for the quality, didn’t someone have access to a 35mm print of at least one of these films?

All fair ideas. Though whether or not the Sarlacc is alluded to, I expect the best version of the scene is the one which can best use pre-existing dialogue, and that’s not exactly my forte.

Though if anyone wants a custom background, for example changing the ESB chamber to something more 2nd Death Star-y, hit me up 😉

^
My approach to editing ROTJ leans a bit more conservative, and doesn’t require seeing the PT to understand the OT, so I think some explanation of Luke’s sister is necessary, otherwise it comes out of nowhere in the context of the film.

RL, I don’t think that two Vader/Boba scenes would be necessary - like you said, a little exposition goes a long way. However, I do worry that the segue scene runs the risk of not having enough dialogue to feel complete. The scenes, especially in the beginning of the film, are rather long, so having such a brief moment may be awkward.

I agree that any shots we included would need to feel like they could have come from the 80’s, but I think the shot from the show could be made to look grungy enough, especially if we rotoscoped a matte painting of the desert into the background or something.

Also, and this is just an observation and doesn’t necessarily tie into the Boba discussion, but I noticed a potential continuity issue if the palace song and dance number comes before the droid entrance. Oola, the dancer, is cast into the Rancor pit at the end of the song only to appear by Jabba’s tail in the droid entrance. This is only a potential issue since it could be that she’s a replacement dancer, or that he merely dropped her into the pit as a warning and didn’t release the Rancor on her. This may be some indication of why Boba didn’t immediately try to stop the Rancor attack - he may have assumed it was just another power play by Jabba. Then when we see the Rancor appear, Boba is at Jabba’s side, perhaps discussing the Sarlacc gambit.

There’s a shot of Boba right beside Jabba during Luke’s Rancor fight, so it fits well with that.

JEDIT: I also like the questions this Boba plot raises for the Emperor’s arrival scene.

Emperor: “And now I sense that you wish to continue your search for young Skywalker.”
Vader: (long pause) “Yes, my master.”

In the theatrical version, I always interpreted this pause to mean “No shit, Sheev. It’s been my sole character motivation for over a year.”

But in this version, that pause could be Vader wondering if the Emperor knows of his continued attempts to capture Luke on the sly, or if the Emperor knows whether or not his latest attempt succeeded.

I was thinking about your ideas last night, RL, and wonder if the Vader/Boba scene wouldn’t merely confuse as many things as it illumines. For example, now that Boba is explicitly on a mission to take Luke alive, it throws later events into a strange light such as Jabba trying to kill Luke first with the Rancor and then with the Sarlacc. In ESB Boba was concerned for Han’s safety since Jabba wanted Han alive, but in this Boba looks on mutely while Jabba tries to kill Luke. Granted, perhaps Jabba isn’t in on the scheme and is a loose cannon in Boba’s plan, but one would think that he would at least try to influence Jabba’s decisions.

This brings me to the idea: What if it is Boba’s intention to incapacitate Luke in the Sarlacc?

Boba clearly knows how difficult it is to trap a Jedi since even Vader couldn’t do it in ESB, so he would rely not merely on his own power nor on Jabba’s henchmen nor another failed Carbonite gambit. No, the only way he would see to bring in his quarry would be to turn Jabba’s entire force on the Jedi and force him into the most inescapable place on the planet, from which he could extricate his wounded quarry at his convenience.

But how to convey this plan? Probably the easiest way would be for there to be a schematic on Vader’s screen of the Sarlacc, or the shot from the Boba show where he hovers over the pit, distorted of course.

Vader: “You have something, bounty hunter?”
Boba: (Shows Sarlacc view)
Vader: “I want him alive.”
Boba: “If he’s a Jedi, he will survive.”
Vader: “Very well. Once you have Skywalker, bring him to me.”
Boba: “As you wish.”

If this scene worked, Boba’s fate would become absolutely poetic.

Of course. As long as it make you happy, that’s all that really matters 😃

The terminator line on the Death Star is clearly tilted at about thirty degrees, meaning that either the light must arrive from the extreme upper right side of the frame or the Death Star itself needs to be rotated thirty degrees clockwise in the frame to match the current sun location.

Of course, realistically the terminator line seems to be bisecting the sphere of the Death Star almost precisely in half, so there would be no way to view the sun in the same frame as the Death Star at this distance. as it would be far to the right of the moon.

I imagine that 4K83 is going to be quite grainy, so any effects work would need to be re-grained for integration. That makes me think that a cleaner Blu-ray source would be better. I think Adywan is using the 2019 version since the Blu-ray is so bad for this film.

At least with a cleaner, more detailed source, it could always be downgraded for use in a more filmic version, whereas it would be more difficult to upscale low-detail work.

I’ve sent you what I have, and if you decide to use another source I will happily use whatever you provide 😃