NeverarGreat

I guess I just want there to be some way to allow the Republic to do something instead of being useless and then dying. Even Hal decided against using my dialogue discussing the Hosnian system because it would draw attention to the fact that the Republic seems to not even bother evacuating. I feel like after the Resistance learns of the Starkiller, there has to be some system in place even in a gridlocked Senate to act against its impending destruction.

Regardless of if there is dialogue about the Republic response, it might be neat to add the ships from TLJ into the final D’kar planet shot for continuity purposes.

I’ve written so many versions of ‘The Senate is desperate to avoid war’ that I’ve lost count, and none of those versions even get out of the word document phase. It’s a shame since that is probably the best explanation as to why the Republic fails to act.

One problem here that is largely self-inflicted is the big restructure and its effect on the setup. In the original film, the Republic was destroyed in a surprise attack before any of our heroes knew about the Starkiller. In this version, however, not only must we explain why the Republic doesn’t act against the vague threat of the First Order, but we must also contrive some explanation for why they are unable or unwilling to act even in the face of their own impending destruction once the Resistance learns of the Starkiller.

In Restructured, it is only known that the Starkiller is charging, not what its target may be. I changed this to include reference to the Hosnian System, but that does add the issue of why the Republic can’t or won’t act. Of course, even in Restructured the target of the Starkiller would have been obvious, but saying it does add that bit of expectation for the Republic to respond in some way.

In an ideal world, I would have some dialogue indicating that the Republic is sending ships in support of the Resistance attack but show that it is too late for them to arrive in time. Then the crawl for TLJ would indicate that the Raddus and its support ships were those intended for this operation, and now exist as the last remnant of the Republic fleet. The bombers which fail in space combat may have actually won the day against the Starkiller.

JEDIT: I could change the dialogue from the scene where Leia is updated about the attack:

“General, are you seeing this?”
(Subtitled) “The Senate has responded! They are sending reinforcements.”
“But their weapon will be ready to fire in ten minutes! It would take a miracle to save us now.”

StarkillerAG said:

I saw Everything Everywhere All At Once in theaters over the weekend, and it was absolutely fantastic. It’s basically Parasite meets The Matrix meets a tab of LSD, with a surprisingly heartwarming message framed by exhilarating action and hilarious comedy. Definitely the best movie of the 2020s so far, and possibly one of the best movies of the 21st century.

I just came back from seeing this and I gotta say that though it was good, I didn’t love it. My girlfriend described it as three films in one and I agree, but the big sci-fi frame tale aspect gets basically dropped halfway through and that was the part that most interested me. Still super inventive action and some laugh out loud comedy. Would recommend, just don’t expect perfection.

BTW, I have updated the crawl above to discuss a civilian fleet angle.

But yes, I’m definitely belaboring the crawl, though I agree with you Sherlock about the Republic being flawed and this being a factor in the return of Imperial sympathies. All of your points are correct.

And yet, if I were to use such a crawl that writes off the Republic and the Senate as a lost cause it would sap almost all tragedy from the Republic’s destruction. More than that, it would be a betrayal of that which our heroes fought and died for over the course of thirty years.

But democracy is imperfect, it is riven with chaos and compromise, constrained by its constitutions and treaties and slow to go to war. These are not failings; these are strengths. If the reason for a return to fascism is that most of the galaxy prefers it over democracy, then there was never any hope for a Republic.

My point, if I have one, is that if the Republic is to fail, it should fail because it is too honorable, too trusting, too idealistic. It should fail due to no fault of its own, but rather because its enemies are unconstrained by honor, and it trusted the Resistance to protect it from just such treachery. Only in this way could the Republic remain sympathetic.

I don’t have a specific crawl in mind for this other than the prior one, just a feeling.

I agree that a peace offering is too much for the crawl.

And as for the two offered revisions, neither explains the political situation sufficiently. Remember that the primary issue with my v1 crawl is that it suggests that the entire Senate has supported the Resistance which isn’t at all what the film implies.

JEDIT: Here’s an idea, one that might actually work not just for this film but for the entire trilogy:

The galaxy is in crisis.
Luke Skywalker, striving
to restore the legendary
Jedi Order, has vanished.

With the New Republic
gathering civilian ships
to search for the missing
Jedi, emissaries of the
IMPERIAL FIRST ORDER
have warned the Senate
that a united starfleet
would be considered an
act of war.

Refusing to fully abandon
their mission, a few
rebellious senators have
secretly called upon a
daring RESISTANCE to
find the last Jedi and
restore peace and justice
to the darkening stars…

Here we have the answer to a lot of questions in the film. Why doesn’t the New Republic use their fleet to strike back against the First Order? They don’t have a united starfleet. Why don’t they have a united starfleet? It’s a stipulation of the treaty with the Imperial remnant, which is actually part of the lore. This way, the small numbers of ships throughout the film makes sense as a consistent feature of the galaxy post-ROTJ.

This framing also has payoff in TROS with the arrival of the massive civilian fleet. If it was already being assembled by the Republic before its fall, then it doesn’t come out of nowhere.

I do! It’s a good reminder not to lose sight of the basics like the First Order’s villainy. Though I wonder if there could be a way to work in their menace without having them outright attack the Republic, as well as offering this peace. In the film Poe looks astonished at the hangar which could mean that they are so reclusive that almost nobody in the Republic knows about them.

I will think on this further.

JEDIT: Thinking about it, it makes sense to capitalize on the idea that the First Order are established enemies of the Republic but I don’t think we need to specify acts of aggression, since it’s not felt anywhere else in the movie (no ruins from First Order attacks, for example), and people generally seem pretty chill about the First Order in general and consider it a ‘there’ problem not a ‘here’ one.

I also feel like the opening attack can work with the prior insistence of them being established enemies of the Republic as well as some language at the end of the third paragraph:

The galaxy is in crisis.
Luke Skywalker, failing in
his quest to restore the
Jedi Order, has vanished.

In his absence, enemies
of the New Republic have
returned from exile as the
IMPERIAL FIRST ORDER
bearing an astonishing
offer of peace, requiring
only that the noble Jedi
shall forever be declared
extinct.

With the Senate divided,
a few rebellious leaders
have secretly called upon
a daring RESISTANCE
to find the last Jedi
and unmask the Imperial
shadow now spreading
across the stars…

I’m still not entirely happy with the final paragraph, since the movie resists all efforts to simplify the political situation. The deleted scene with Leia implies that the Senate at large will refuse to even listen to her, which means that the Senate at large doesn’t view the First Order as a threat. There’s also the odd language Hux uses in his speech about the New Republic ‘lying to the galaxy while secretly supporting the treachery of the loathsome Resistance’. It strikes me that Hux feels personally betrayed in some way by the Republic, even though he views the two governments to be at war. Granted it could all be fascistic propaganda, but it would be nice for it to mean something to the story beyond fiery words.

So I got to thinking, what if the First Order made a specific offer to the New Republic?

The galaxy is in crisis.
Luke Skywalker, striving
to restore the legendary
Jedi Order, has vanished.

In his absence, agents
bearing the mark of the
IMPERIAL FIRST ORDER
have emerged from exile
seeking to rejoin the
peaceful New Republic
on the condition that the
ancient Jedi be declared
extinct.

Suspicious of this peace
offering, members of the
bitterly divided Senate
have secretly called upon
a daring RESISTANCE
to discover whether the
last Jedi still lives amid
the darkening stars…

I don’t know if I’ll go in this direction, but it’s a rather compelling take.

For one, it explains why the First Order is so intent on destroying Luke - he would see through their deception immediately and would have the popularity and power to oppose them. And by so publicly claiming the Jedi to be extinct, Luke has become their greatest potential PR liability, adding more power to his reappearance in TLJ.

It also explains the First Order’s original plan, which would have been to take over the Republic from the inside (as described in the novels). When the Resistance gets in the way they change the plan to destroying the Hosnian System and taking over in the ensuing chaos.

The Starkiller weapon is almost necessary in the context of this story framing, since the First Order merely having a large fleet and army wouldn’t necessarily be an insurmountable issue to joining the Republic, but the existence of a superweapon instantly and completely shows them for the villains they are.

This framing also explains the change from the Empire to the First Order, since the organization is clearly trying (and failing) to put on a different facade. The fact that their ships and troops look the same but different works thematically rather than it coming across as entirely lazy.

Finally, the rather odd worldbuilding decision to create a galaxy free of the Jedi makes sense here since it’s a necessary condition for this setup. Rey viewing Luke and the Jedi as a myth is thematically important, as is the film’s interest in rediscovering their power.

Well, you’ve convinced me, y’all 😃

They’re all good crawls, y’all. It’s just that there are a ton of restraints on the crawl that need to be taken into consideration, or rather, things that I feel are important to a nice-looking crawl.

For example, there are only about 25 characters (including spaces) to work with on each line. ‘Jedi Knights, has vanished.’ is 27 characters, but that’s pushing it.

The number of lines is also important for the timing of the crawl to sync up with the music. I’ve found that a 4 line, 9 line, 8 line crawl is optimal.

So the thing is, these crawls while good largely won’t work with my constraints. that’s what makes it so challenging, as flowing sentences often become unworkable due to word length.

JEDIT: Here’s what I’m working with right now:

It is a time of despair.
Luke Skywalker, striving
to restore the legendary
Jedi Knights, has vanished.

In his absence, legions
of brutal warriors under
the command of the
IMPERIAL FIRST ORDER
have emerged from a
mysterious hidden base
to terrorize star systems
throughout the peaceful
New Republic.

Overwhelmed by chaos,
several members of the
bitterly divided Senate
have secretly called upon
a daring RESISTANCE
to find the last Jedi and
restore peace and justice
to the darkening stars…

Well Tzetzo, it’s a well-articulated introduction but it’s too wordy for an actual crawl. As a point of comparison, the original crawl to the film was 88 words and I’m trying to keep my crawl down to the low to mid 80’s. So 124 words is rather impossible.

Yeah, unless Shaw was replaced with Hayden in both of his scenes, it wouldn’t make sense to me. Heck, I would still prefer Shaw even if that happened.

Nice one! Much to consider.

JEDIT: So having considered it, though it’s nice to have the Imperial fortress before the First Order, it reintroduces that awkward sentence construction that I’ve tried hard to avoid this time.

I worked a bit more on the second paragraph and came up with this:

In Skywalker’s absence,
warriors raised in exile
under the cruelty of the
IMPERIAL FIRST ORDER
have emerged from their
fearsome hidden fortress
to terrorize star systems
throughout the peaceful
New Republic.

This puts the responsibility for malevolence on the First Order rather than the soldiers, and also works in the idea that the Empire was actually exiled after their defeat.

Yeah, even just looking at it I may change ‘IMPERIAL FIRST ORDER’ to ‘sinister FIRST ORDER’ and ‘barbaric hidden fortress’ to ‘hidden Imperial fortress’, which would imply that the Starkiller was first an Imperial project. It’s a shame because I like the whole line taken up by that title, but it may be clearer the other way…

JEDIT: This crawl also threads the needle of the fortress being important to the story without stating that it is a superweapon, which would work for any edit which removes that aspect of the story 😉

So I’ve been sitting with the updated crawl for a while, but it just feels a bit off compared to the structure of the first. I really like going from Luke’s disappearance in the first paragraph to the First Order in the second and the Resistance in the third, that way there’s no splitting of the First Order between the first and third paragraphs. In light of this, here’s the new crawl:

It is a time of despair.
Luke Skywalker, striving
to restore the legendary
Jedi Knights, has vanished.

In Skywalker’s absence,
malevolent forces raised
under the banner of the
IMPERIAL FIRST ORDER
have emerged from their
barbaric hidden fortress
to terrorize star systems
throughout the peaceful
New Republic.

With the Republic falling
into chaos and division,
a few brave senators have
secretly called upon a
daring RESISTANCE to
find the last Jedi and
restore peace and justice
to the darkening stars…

I believe this fixes the two biggest issues people took with the first crawl, namely the run-on sentence in the second paragraph and the inaccurate role of the Republic in the story.

Another adjustment was changing ‘Jedi Order’ to ‘Jedi Knights’ because that is a bit more well-known to the average viewer and more illustrative of their role as warriors. I’ve also changed ‘missing Jedi’ to ‘last Jedi’ to clearly state that plot point.

Finally, the word ‘raised’ in the second paragraph has a double meaning as Finn describes being literally raised by the First Order. The word ‘terrorize’ more accurately describes the activities of the First Order at this time (such as the events described in Bloodlines) and offers some explanation of why traditional armies and fleets fielded by the Republic may not be effective against this foe.

I’m pretty happy with this crawl, personally.

I don’t think he looks fat, and honestly I wouldn’t care if he was.

As long as he can soar through the air on the wings of his spinning double bladed red lightsaber, twirling, twirling towards freedom, all else will pale into insignificance.

That is a not-unreasonable take, Jar Jar, but the idea won’t let go of my brain that easily.

You see, the reason why most old castles and ruins on Earth are little more than foundations are because they’ve been robbed out by later inhabitants. If the buildings were merely abandoned they could last for hundreds or thousands of years, as seen with Mayan and Aztec temples. I would imagine that the huts probably would have collapsed over time, but the stones would still be there covered in a growing layer of rain-deposited sediment. If Luke was on the island for a few years it’s easily possible for him to have rebuilt the ones we see in TFA which consist of about two huts and a wall.

All this to say that there’s the potential for an unknown history regarding the island and its unusually pristine structures. Perhaps it was Luke, perhaps it was magic, perhaps it was a race of monastic House Elves which lived on another island and risked attack from violent tribes to keep the relics of a long-forgotten people in working order.

I only wish that the imagination of the viewer would have been given reign over these minor mysteries and reserved explanations for things with true import in the story.

I mean, we could have had a shot of Luke repairing a crumbling hut amid his daily routine. It would have actually made complete sense to give Luke a hobby.

That idea is neat, but I think it would feel out of place considering the setup. The ‘bait’ aspect of the Death Star and the Rebel’s attack plan both hinge on the Death Star being hidden and isolated from the rest of the galaxy and the Imperial fleet. If the Death Star were to be constructed around Coruscant (or moved there at some point in its construction), there would be no way to keep that a secret and so the Death Star would fail to be enticing as a target to the Rebels since they would expect a trap.

^ Love that mockup, RL!

I think, if it’s doable, getting a music-free version of the scene would be a great starting point, then put something else into place if it feels empty.

Though a lot can be done with creature sound effects, and even a very subtle musical idea can give a scene tension, much like the ESB scene of Luke in the Cave.

A lot of good ideas, RL! I second the notion of using the Ewoks with Blasters footage if possible.

Rewatching the feast preparation scene, I suddenly realized why it doesn’t feel threatening: the music. Almost the entire scene has a tribal beat which gives a clear ‘happy festivities’ vibe. The only moment that feels in any way dramatic is when 3PO starts levitating, which also happens to be when the tribal music stops.

My solution would be to remove the tribal music from the scene. It would probably be tricky since there’s so many other sounds, but I am willing to bet that if that scene had only dialogue and sound effects, it would be 200% more creepy.

CloakedDragon97 said:

I don’t really like Airplane that much.

Same. However, I rather expect old comedies to be rather lackluster as a rule, since comedy as a genre fares poorly with distance in either time or place. The reason I have come up with is that since jokes are generally more funny the more situational and specific they are, the less impact they have over time as the nuance of the situations has gradually been lost.

Great find, Bobson!

And yeah, though it was certainly possible to do this in '77, I am leaning toward mistaken memory. If this costume was even from Halloween '78 it would be totally believable, since there were many more high-quality references available.

To answer your question: Yes.

humanracer said:

One change I would easily make is Luke telling Rey she isn’t related to Palpatine at all, that it was a ruse by him and that it was her own strength that defeated him in the end.

Many others agree:

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/REY-NOBODY-A-Collaborative-Thread/id/76772

A few of these are quite fun! I think with quick cuts they would be fairly easy to bend with the surrounding battle, and as for the quality, didn’t someone have access to a 35mm print of at least one of these films?

All fair ideas. Though whether or not the Sarlacc is alluded to, I expect the best version of the scene is the one which can best use pre-existing dialogue, and that’s not exactly my forte.

Though if anyone wants a custom background, for example changing the ESB chamber to something more 2nd Death Star-y, hit me up 😉