NeverarGreat

Anchorhead said:

SparkySywer said:

What is that picture?

Sheev Palpatine
- 19 BBY, Colorized

LexX said:

Luke saying robots in SW as which has to be a writing error for sure.

I rather liked it, since it’s objectively correct and it may be more correct than the term ‘droid’, if that term is merely a contraction of the term ‘android’, since that denotes a humanoid robot.

Of course I have no problem with ‘droid’ being shorthand for all robots in Star Wars, it’s just neat when a single thing in a story can have more than one designation depending on circumstance.

Darth Malgus said:

5. Star Wars Episode V: On the Verge of the Dark Side

Right at the Edge of the Dark Side, Like, Practically Within It, If We’re Being Perfectly Honest

…A Star Wars Story.

kyberangel said:

TFA was how i fell in love with star wars. i know a lot of older fans like to rag on TFA for being “too similar” to ANH but it’s the movie that made me, a then-15 year old girl truly see why people adored star wars. it was pure fun, with likeable and charaismatic characters you enjoyed seeing and left wanting more of and action that made me breathless. i ADORED the new trio especially. finn and poe’s instant comraderie & finn and rey’s sweet friendship were both lovely, fresh dynamics for our main cast. and i know people aren’t fond of rey, but i loved her quietly stunborn, scrappy additude and slight naivate. TFA is the movie that truly kickstarted my star wars obsession. its not a perfect movie narratively, and its definitely obvious they had no plan at all but its everything people like about star wars distilled into a movie, made with love.

i hated TLJ at first but grew to appreciate it more upon rewatch, though i still view it as an insanely mixed bag. its highs were astronomically high and its lows were so, so low. let me say the good things first; TLJ is the first star wars movie with clear thematic storytelling and metacommentary on the nature of heroes, failure, the force and the place of the jedi. i like how johnson wanted to challenge what our idea of a star wars movie is. its also the first (and so far only) star wars movie with a hyper-distinctive visual style. i appreciate how the shots are a bit more artistic than what we usually see in action blockbusters. rey’s parents being nobodies was an inspired narrative foil to luke’s own parentage reveal in ESB. luke’s arc was truly special and him dying as the noble, selfless hero we know him to be was deeply moving. onto the bad side of things; i got the sense that rian johnson knew exactly what kind of story he wanted to tell with rey/luke/kylo, but had no clue what to do with finn, poe or even poor rose. the canto bite subplot brutally misunderstands finn and poe’s characters, and does the strength of the trio a major disservice by seperating the two of them instead of building on their relationship. rose was nonsensical as a love interest for finn, he would have legitimately been better off with either rey or poe if he needed a romance. this subplot was TLJ’s biggest mistake, as 2/3s of our main trio have either has their development regressed (finn) or personalities changed altogether (poe). their plotline actively brings the whole movie down, which is even more egregious since they are two of our main leads and should be of EQUAL IMPORTANCE to rey. in the end TLJ is just frustrating to me because its effectively half of a phenomenal movie that led and half of a movie i just cannot stand.

ROS makes me angry, but also sad. sad because it truly felt like an entirely soulless, corporate movie in a way the others never did. i can’t even be mad at jj abrams because according to the cast and crew, most of the disliked changes came from disney executives and abrams had no real power on the creative decisions being made. the only good things i can think of in this movie are that we get to see the main trio finally interact as a unit, and their exchanges are charming as usual. if i listed what i disliked i’d be here all day. its so obvious this movie was just made to appease the biggest amount of people so they could make money. there wasn’t any love there anymore, and you could tell the actors were deeply saddened about the way things went. ROS reversed everything good TFA and TLJ did to give us a truly forgettable finale that actively hurt both the sequel trilogy and public interest in star wars.

in the end, the sequel trilogy is missed potential for me. even a middling series can be good if it sticks the landing, but something about ROS just makes everything else in the trilogy ring hollow. its just depressing to think about

That is an excellent articulation, kyberangel! It’s also nice to see love for TFA here, since for many people it truly did serve as a great introduction to the series, something older fans such as myself can forget. That just makes the end of the trilogy all the more soul-crushing. The new generation of Star Wars fans deserved to get a ROTJ or a ROTS instead of the mean-spirited waste that was TROS.

There’s a lot of stuff that this show could do that could in theory strengthen the OT.

For example, we could get Obi-wan meeting Vader in a scene reminiscent of Luke meeting Vader in ROTJ where Obi-wan tries to convince Anakin to turn away from the Emperor. That way Vader’s line ‘Obi-wan once thought as you do’ would make more sense.

A fight between Vader and Obi-wan could lead to Obi-wan escaping in a way that implies that he is killed. That way the situation in ANH, where everyone assumes Obi-wan is dead, makes more sense. Similarly, we could see Vader recognize Obi-wan through the Force, as he states in ANH.

We could get a non-silly explanation for why Vader never bothered checking Tatooine for Obi-wan or potential progeny. We could see, perhaps via flashback, that Vader has visited the tomb of Padme on Naboo, and seen that there is a small tomb beside hers, unnamed. Perhaps he demands of the official who interred them if there is truly a child buried here, and they swear on their life that it is true. He believes this and in this place finally gives up his last hope for redemption.

Obi-wan’s mission off-planet could be due to a belief that he can still do good in the galaxy and right some wrong. The end of this mission may have him realize that he is indeed becoming too old and too weary to continue the fight, recognizing that perhaps his idealism of youth was merely a zealous crusade, confirmed by the bitter denunciations of Owen and those who blame the Jedi for allowing this Empire to succeed.

While I hope that something like this comes to pass, I have absolutely no evidence based on this trailer that the show will deliver on any of this nuance. My expectations are in the Sarlacc, but hey, the show could surprise me.

Thinking about how a crawl for this edit might look, it may have some similarities with TFA. To wit:

It is a time of legends. Striving to become a mighty Jedi Knight, Luke Skywalker trains in isolation on the desolate world of Tatooine.

Anxiously awaiting the end of Luke’s self imposed exile, Princess Leia gathers her allies for a daring rescue of Han Solo from the clutches of the vile gangster Jabba the Hutt.

Dreading further delay, Leia has set into motion a desperate plan to save captain Solo, fearing rumors of a threat that shall spell certain doom for the small band of rebels struggling to restore peace and justice to the galaxy…

That sounds great in theory…I just have no idea how it would look in practice.

JEDIT: Watching these scenes again, it might work to keep quite a bit of the footage. After the Vader scene, introduce Jabba’s palace with the Max Rebo band and follow it with Bounty for a Wookiee. It would be easy to cut around 3PO here, even keeping the thermal detonator bit. Then we’d establish all the characters as well as Chewie’s fate in the cell. Unfortunately 3PO is in the background of several shots in the failed escape scene, but it would be fairly straightforward to paint him out, I’d imagine. Surely no more difficult than removing timecodes from deleted scenes 😉 Anyway, with this done it would work to keep Han being thrown into the cell with Chewie, and then after Han asks ‘What’s going on, Pal?’ Chewie’s remarks could be interpreted to mean ‘Don’t worry, Luke will save us.’ It doesn’t have to mean that Luke was always part of the plan, merely that Luke is on standby if it failed. In any case, this would serve as a good segue into Luke.

Then we could cut from the cell to Luke working on the saber in the cave and the droid dialogue afterwards.

It does keep quite a lot from the theatrical film, but at least you could cut it down from there to your heart’s content. Since everything is already established, for example, the extended droid entrance to the palace could be cut down quite a bit. Maybe just have the wide shot of the droids headed to the palace, then cut straight to them descending the stairs to Jabba. That would save the dramatic door opening scene for Luke alone.

Chewie’s capture I think can be accepted due to Threepio’s dialogue in their introduction, but I still think we need to see Leia unfreeze Han.

Peter Pan said:

I might be mistaken but wouldn’t that suggest that there are two sabers?

We see Luke working on one and cut to R2 and 3PO not waiting for him, so there is no time for Luke to give the saber to R2.
Maybe you could move Vaders arrival at the Death Star or Leia’s failed rescue attempt between the two scenes of Luke working on his saber and the droids walking up to Jabba’s palace.

Well I’m just imagining cutting around a few shots in the middle of the deleted scene, so it would go from Luke working on the saber to R2 emerging from the cave. The handoff still happens, but it’s unclear. I think that’s an interesting way to go about it because the location of the saber is unknown until the sail barge, perhaps as an effort by Luke to avoid violence until absolutely necessary.

This rearrangement also works to tease big elements of Act 1. Jabba’s voice is teased without revealing his corpulence, Luke’s black costume is teased in semi-darkness, and his saber is teased while obscuring its precise nature and location. We also don’t know where Lando and Chewie are, and are only guessing at their part in Leia’s plan. Leia herself is absent for the droids’ arrival at the palace, creating the anticipation of her fate, as well as that of Han.

Finally and perhaps most importantly, the plan is far more clear, since there are two plans. Leia’s plan is unknown, but could presumably have included herself and Lando as bounty hunters taking Chewie in to gain entrance to the palace. When her escape failed, Luke realized that he must use his resources to get them out. He first sends the droids in an attempt to diffuse the situation diplomatically, and when that fails he goes in himself to mind trick or threaten Jabba. Failing this, he realizes that violence is the only answer.

We would still need to establish that Leia has unfrozen Han, I think.

How about this:

-Crawl establishes that Luke is completing his Jedi training in isolation, leaving Leia and her allies to attempt Han’s rescue alone.
-Vader goes to the Death Star.
-Establishing shot of Jabba’s palace at sundown.
-Leia wanders through sleeping fortress, unfreezes Han.
-Sinister laughter from Jabba. “I know that laugh.” Cut to black.
-Indeterminate shots of Dagobah, darkness of the cave in the swamp. Voiceover from ESB. “Friends you have there.” “They were in pain.” “Decide you must, how to serve them best. If you leave now, help them you could…but you would destroy all for which they have fought and suffered.” Reveal Luke in a cave working on a lightsaber. He does not activate it.
-R2 emerges from crevice on Tatooine. “We’re leaving? But what about master Luke? I thought he was going to rescue captain Solo…You mean we’re going to that horrible fortress…alone?” Cut to the theatrical version “Of course I’m worried, and you should be too. Lando Calrissian and poor Chewbacca never returned from this awful place.”

From there we can have the droids delivering Luke’s message, just cutting the discussion about Han still in Carbonite. We have the droid torture scene, the baroque recital, the Rancor tease, then Luke appears.

The biggest trick with this would be to have the voiceover and Dagobah imagery without it feeling fanedity, but it’s simple enough and includes bits of an actual ROTJ deleted scene so it shouldn’t be too bad. This version also makes more sense of the dialogue that Chewie has already been captured, so we don’t need the extended scene of Leia dragging him in there or the reveal of Lando among the guards. Seeing that Luke is working on the saber implies that he needs more time to finish his weapon, sending the droids in first. Later when we see that R2 had the saber the implication can turn to one of Luke wishing to avoid a full confrontation until absolutely necessary, a necessary step on his Jedi path.

JEDIT: Alternately, one could put Leia’s failed rescue first, following it with the Vader arrival at the Death Star and then the shot of Luke in the cave before moving to the droids. You would just need another pan-down to Tatooine, and it may feel strange not to have a Star Destroyer opening like is a tradition from the first two films.

This version flows a lot better than before, I like it!

One thing that still feels odd is how short the scene of Padme and Nute is before the droids are disabled. Obviously you can’t include more from after that point, so the only other way I can see it working is to cut right from the surrender of the queen to the scene with Nute.

Love the idea of Anakin saying ‘we’ve gotta do something’ while in space, it really sells that he’s there for a purpose. It has always bugged me, however, to have his ship get hit in what appears a superficial manner, then to have him freak out and spin the ship into the hangar. What if he gets shot earlier in the battle and then R2 advises turning back, only for Anakin to refuse. At that point he knows the stakes. Then he could be further chased by ships and do the spin maneuver, even keeping the line, which goes out of his control a bit and lands him in the hangar.

JEDIT: Crazy idea, but what if we could use an idea from BOBF with Mando’s supercharge button on the Naboo fighter? Perhaps this is something that a few of the fighters have pre-installed in this era, and Anakin accidentally/purposefully uses it to boost through the shield into the hangar? That would explain why he’s having a hard time stopping the ship, why it’s overheated, and also how he could get through the shield while the other ships apparently never thought of that. Maybe if we pulled a shot of him pressing some important button from earlier or later, coupled with a boost sound effect and a bit of added engine flare.

Yeah, I think that the end of the Obi-wan/Maul fight would work better with as few cuts as possible.

The concept that Padme wins because of the destruction of the control ship is a really nice touch.

Well how else are the villains supposed to leap over obstacles such as banthas and space sharks?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWTfhyvzTx0

Teaser trailer.

I hope you like edgy Inquisitors with spinning lightsabers looking for someone who is ‘hidden’ in the most obvious place in the galaxy.

To me this looks a lot worse than Mando or Boba’s Playset. Oh well.

“That name faking sucks!”

EddieDean said:

Folks, I need to officially take a break from this project for a while. I’ve got too many spinning plates in life right now and a lot of mental overhead, so I need to say out loud that I need to put this to one side so that I can take the pressure off. The project isn’t dead, but 16 months straight on one obligation is heavy, and I need a breather. I’ll be back as soon as I can be.

You’ve earned any break you would take, Eddie. 😃

No, I never got that far, and never really intended to. I’d love to see if it would actually work though, so feel free to try it 😃

Go for it! RO is one of those movies I keep coming back to due to its proximity to the OT, so I’m always happy to talk ideas for it. I still think there’s a way to flip the first and second acts for a more compelling story, I’m sure you recall that thread.

I realized that BOBF was just people trying to put their Jabba The Hutt palace playset back together, and didn’t waste a thought on it after that. I think that’s most of the Disney stuff, when you get right down to it, even the ST. I recall starting the TFA edit in the lead up to TLJ’s release and the hype surrounding it. Would I have started an ST edit after seeing TROS? No way. But what keeps me coming back is the community, not the stories. If I only ever make one edit, that’s fine with me. I have plenty of ideas for TLJ, but it isn’t strictly necessary. Part of me just wants to make the best TFA edit possible and leave the rest to people with more energy for that sort of thing, and I bet that there will be younger people who will have grown up seeing this trilogy and wanting to make it even better.

I guess this has gotten away from RO, huh. Just goes to show that the universe so big that there’s no way to change all of it, or even see all of it, and that will only get more true with time. Perhaps the only reason I rewrote the RO ending was for someone else to read it, and I don’t think that’s a waste of time 😉

Ha, I’m always just as surprised when anyone reads things in this part of the forum 😉

This was just a thing knocking around in my brain one night and wouldn’t leave until it was written, so it ended up as a very stream-of-consciousness thing. You may have noticed that Nev just sort of forgot about Krennick.

But yeah, I would in no way try to replicate this in an actual edit, other than your suggestions. I actually like the big space battle in RO in isolation, it just feels too big compared to the stakes of ANH. The original trilogy was very simple and organic in how it built the Rebellion through the trilogy, starting with small stunt fighters and adding a few support craft in ESB, only bringing in capital ships in ROTJ. I think a RO with just a single capital ship and perhaps some support craft would have worked better in this regard, or just having the ships we see in ANH.

I know a lot of people like the Vader hallway scene, and absent Vader in a TIE it makes sense to have that scene. A prior thought I had for that handoff was to imply that the plans were automatically downloaded onto a disc after being received. Just cut the shot of the plans being downloaded onto the disc and repurpose that shot at the end of the hallway scene as one where the Rebels needed to get the data from the receiving station to the long range transmitter, then cut to a shot of the Tantive IV already in deep space or on the other side of the planet.

But that’s a film edit idea.

Rewriting this ending as a smaller conflict is sort of a microcosm of how I would have approached the prequel trilogy in general. For example, in stories small elements build on themselves to create bigger elements in sequels, so a prequel would need to reverse-engineer the smaller elements in order for the story to appear organic. So if Luke begins ANH as a decent mechanic and a good pilot, and Rey begins TFA as a good mechanic, a great pilot, and emergently Force sensitive, then Anakin in a prequel would need to be just a pilot or just a mechanic in the beginning of the story. Since Obi-wan says that Anakin was a great pilot when he met the man, that would mean that Anakin would have to learn how to interact with machines through his adventures, which makes sense in a story that heavily features droid battles.

Similarly, since Force abilities tend to be added with each new installment, the first prequel would need to backtrack and make the discovery of the Force by Anakin a monumental event in itself. It is a time where everything is fresh and new, and everything that is gained is treasured. This works with Obi-wan’s abilities as established in ANH since they are quite low-key. He creates sounds, uses mental manipulation, distraction, and so forth. In fact, he’s more like a heightened samurai than a space wizard. So when Anakin meets this man he may think that Obi-wan merely has a high skill with a blade and the ability to charm people with his cleverness and wit. It is only after beginning his adventure that he begins to suspect that the Jedi are more than merely martial artists with a flair for the dramatic. And so he begins to delve into this ability, and perhaps it is he who comes up with the mind trick on his own, a trick which Obi-wan learns from Anakin since it is tinged with darkness.

Anyway, you see where this is going. Someday I might actually write the entire reverse-engineered trilogy down somewhere.

Glad you think so!

I’ve gone back through the thread and read all the suggestions and critiques, copying them to my notes document for consideration. There are a ton of them, thank you to everyone who provided feedback, I’m working through it and will be making plenty of changes to the edit in light of these comments, and where I decide to disregard the critique I hope to at least provide my rationale for doing so 😃

That dialogue change gave me the idea of moving the previous 3PO dialogue about the Republic fleet to later in the film:

“General, are you seeing this?”
“Two more X-wings down. That’s half our fleet destroyed!”
“And their weapon will be fully charged in ten minutes. Without the Republic fleet, we’re doomed!”
“General, we need to take out some of these TIE fighters before we make another run at that oscillator. All wings, break off and retreat!”

This means that I’m reintroducing the ten minute countdown notice, which in this version is actually helpful since the prior update was at fifty minutes.

I wonder how much of the oddness is just the expectation of another sound. I think it’s definitely in the range of what Daniels would have done, but more like a weird take rather than a wrong one, you know?

I tweaked it again, and it might be slightly better, but I’m happy with it as a piece of pure exposition rather than performance.

I probably did two dozen takes on ‘evacuation’ and even then I had to splice two takes of that word together to get something usable. The AI just doesn’t like that one, clearly.