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NeverarGreat

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11-Sep-2012
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7-Apr-2020
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Post
#1331297
Topic
What's your take on Emperor Palpatine being brought back for The Rise of Skywalker?
Time

Tarkin definitely is the main villain of the first film. Not the highest ranking, but I don’t see how anyone says that the Emperor was a real presence as a character, and wasn’t even revealed as Force sensitive as you say.

Also recall how dismissive the Imperial officers were that one of their co-workers adhered to some mystical cult? The '77 Star Wars universe was far more secular than later installments, with the magic mostly relegated to generations past.

Post
#1331260
Topic
What's your take on Emperor Palpatine being brought back for The Rise of Skywalker?
Time

Definitely, it could have worked if they stuck to it. I am imagining an Akira situation and that would have been really good, essentially someone consumed by their ever increasing power. It would have been interesting if Rey also gained more and more power in response, but it again runs the risk of that power creep problem and turning Rey into basically a god in order to defeat him.

Anything would have been better than the half-assed quasi-villain quasi-redeemed Kylo from TROS.

Post
#1331251
Topic
What's your take on Emperor Palpatine being brought back for The Rise of Skywalker?
Time

StarkillerAG said:

NeverarGreat said:

If done perfectly, in a decent movie, Palpatine could have worked. This was nowhere near that movie.

You’re probably right. I remember some of the early speculation, from after the teaser trailer was released, said that Palpatine would appear as a possessing spirit. The main villain would be a Sith loyalist, played by Matt Smith, who gets possessed by Palpatine’s spirit towards the end of the movie. That could have been a much better way to bring him back.

I would have loved something like that. However, the whole ‘Palps is all the Sith’ was much more sophisticated an idea than I expected, so it’s not as it he was a complete waste. And it actually improves the angle in ROTJ where Palps wants Luke to kill him. Now we get a reason.

Kylo as a villain also has issues. He’s compelling, but nowhere near intimidating enough to be a ‘big bad’. Hux is a joke by the end of TLJ, so he can’t be the primary villain. Both characters are also far too hotheaded to be masterminds of the First Order. The only choice left is to create a new villain. In my rewrite I chose Thrawn since he is a perfect coolheaded mastermind with which to balance the fire of Hux, and Kylo is quickly redeemed. Yes, it is difficult to redeem such a character since he has rejected two calls so far, but it also feels wrong in a series so focused on the concept of saving conflicted characters to not have Kylo be redeemed.

I understand why you chose Thrawn as the villain in your rewrite, but for me it has two issues:

  1. Thrawn has no force sensitivity. The main villains of the saga, namely Palpatine and Snoke, have always been force sensitive, so it could be underwhelming to break the tradition for the final movie of the saga.

True, in a standard story he would be underwhelming, but in my version Thrawn’s plan is to destroy Force sensitivity throughout the galaxy (starting with Kylo and Rey), making him a threat to the Force itself instead of merely another Darkside user. Instead of rising to the level of Palpatine, he’s dragging everyone else down to his level where he is superior. It also helps to alleviate the power creep that tends to happen near the end of magical stories.

  1. Thrawn wasn’t established at all in the previous two movies. Just like what happened with Palpatine, randomly introducing a new main villain in the final movie of a trilogy is probably not a good idea.

Again you are right but there’s really no other option unless you go the Kylo or Hux main villain route. However since he never becomes Supreme Leader, it could be assumed that he was always working offscreen as a part of the First Order, like General Pryde. It’s not as bad as announcing him as the new biggest thing in the galaxy ever suddenly. And he’s already made appearances in other Disney Star Wars media and is the most well-known villain in Star Wars who hasn’t yet had a mention in the movies.

Those are also the main reasons why I wish Kylo would have been the main villain. I disagree with the idea that Star Wars is all about redeeming villains, that has only happened once in the entire saga.

But that redemption was built up to for six movies, no Star Wars film has escaped that shadow. Of course there are villains who do not get redemption, like Tarkin or Palps or Dooku, but they are all acting basically of their own volition. Vader and to an extent Kylo are much more controlled and intentionally twisted by their masters into villains. You could argue that by the end of TLJ Kylo is now uncontrolled by his master, but we also see how destabilizing and weak this makes him. If he continues in this haunted, weakened vengeful state it is increasingly difficult to take him seriously as a villain, much less the ruler of the galaxy.

Post
#1331246
Topic
What's your take on Emperor Palpatine being brought back for The Rise of Skywalker?
Time

If done perfectly, in a decent movie, Palpatine could have worked. This was nowhere near that movie.

Kylo as a villain also has issues. He’s compelling, but nowhere near intimidating enough to be a ‘big bad’. Hux is a joke by the end of TLJ, so he can’t be the primary villain. Both characters are also far too hotheaded to be masterminds of the First Order. The only choice left is to create a new villain. In my rewrite I chose Thrawn since he is a perfect coolheaded mastermind with which to balance the fire of Hux, and Kylo is quickly redeemed. Yes, it is difficult to redeem such a character since he has rejected two calls so far, but it also feels wrong in a series so focused on the concept of saving conflicted characters to not have Kylo be redeemed.

Post
#1331189
Topic
Nev's Episode IX Reimagined
Time

I’ve changed the Thrawn shipyard scene yet again, this time bringing in the financiers of the galaxy and reintroducing the Master Codebreaker from TLJ, so it’s worth rereading. I’ve also seeded some talk of a Knight of Ren being knowledgeable about ancient Jedi lore, to give Rey a more specific goal in solving her existential crisis. Below, the story continues:

Xindo, still in white attire and wearing his distinctive red Plom bloom, paces restlessly in his quarters. The old woman lounges on a couch. Xindo asks how she can accept this child harvesting, and she answers that he needs to grow up and accept that this is how the galaxy has always been. She chides him, saying that if they don’t profit from the First Order then someone else would. He looks away angrily. She tells him firmly that their little game has ended and that his mother has won. They both bet heavily on opposite sides, but though hers was the greater risk the dice came up on her side in the end. He should now focus on getting serious about his own life and giving her some grandchildren, asking where that pretty girl went that he was involved with. She adds that he tends to lose everything she gives him, just like that very nice ship on Canto Bight. He says his ship was stolen, and regardless the game hasn’t ended, not while he still has chips to play. She looks at him quizzically, asking if he might be planning to foolishly contact the Resistance. She reminds him that this would be exceptionally foolish because it would put in jeopardy their family’s fortune and safety. He makes to leave, and she asks where. He says that he is going to get some air. He leaves. The mother takes a small furry creature out of her purse and tells it to keep an eye on her wayward son. It purrs and slinks after him at an unobtrusive distance.

The turbolift doors open onto the bar and lounge area of the station, and Xindo sees the businesspeople mingling and laughing with the First Order brass. He waits for the doors to close, sighing in disgust. He punches the number for the maintenance level. The doors open onto a more grimy hallway. He exits, the small creature slithering its way after him silently. He walks the halls, the hulking mass of a docked destroyer visible through the windows on his left. Technicians of various species, covered in oil and grime, hurry to and fro with equipment out of an adjoining maintenance tube. They give him troubled looks, and he moves past them. He sees the primary docking tube entrance and makes towards it, only to be blocked by hazard signs and a flimsy barrier strung across the hall. He steps past this as well, finally coming to the door to the tube. It is locked and bears a bright yellow and red quarantine sign. Xindo glances around, then slips a slicer key into the lock. It hisses open and he enters. From across the hall, the small creature chitters to itself as if seeking direction, then scampers back the way it came.

Rey sits in the hold of the Falcon, attempting once again to piece together the broken hilts of the lightsaber. R2 rolls up, beeping helpfully. Rey shoos him away, telling him that she doesn’t need his help. He beeps again, and Rey smiles. ‘No, I don’t need another one’ she says, telling him that she’ll soon find answers to her problems and be able to reforge the sword of legend.

In the cockpit, Ben and Chewie sit alone. Ben asks Chewie why he wanted to come on this mission. Chewie growls and Ben says that he doesn’t buy the story of old Rebel friends on the planet. Chewie looks uncomfortable, and growls two syllables. ‘Life debt?!’ Ben says incredulously, reminding Chewie that he did in fact shoot him. Chewie growls an apology, and Ben says that the debt was paid long ago by his father, and many times over. Chewie growls dissension, to which Ben has no response. A warning light blinks on the control board and Chewie roars for Rey to come to the cockpit.

The Falcon exits hyperspace above the forested planet of Gramelon. Rey studies the scopes and notes that there doesn’t seem to be any First Order presence yet. Ben seems relieved. Rey asks where on the planet the Knights of Ren will be gathered, and Ben says that it’s a castle in the sacred forest where no spacefaring vessel may enter. Rey looks worried, asking if there’s any way they could bypass this, when a voice crackles on the radio alerting them to their position over the planet. The voice asks them to divert to the city coordinates before the ship is vaporized by their defensive weapons. Ben says that they should probably do what the voice suggests. Rey sighs, diverting the Falcon and landing in a busy, colorful city a continent away from the forest and castle.

Post
#1331040
Topic
The Last Jedi: Legendary (SPOILERS)
Time

Having used both Mac and PC, both feel solid to me. PC can be less stable simply because of the array of components available of varying levels of quality, but any build of decent quality parts will be as stable as a Mac. I use PC because that’s what I grew up on and Mac feels awkward to navigate, but that’s all personal preference.

I hear that Davinci Resolve has good video editing on par with FCP or Premiere Pro, maybe you could try that?

Post
#1331038
Topic
Worst Edit Ideas
Time

Hal 9000 said:

Have Rey be Palpatine’s granddaughter, and he tries to possess her.

Have Palpatine be back with absolutely no explanation.

Give Palpatine a fleet of planet destroying Star Destroyers with absolutely no explanation.

Give Palpatine a bucket of Snoke clones as a reason for Snoke’s existence.

Have Palpatine reveal that killing him will make him win right as Rey is about to kill him.

Have Palpatine change his plan no less than three times.

Have Palpatine’s minion kill Rey’s parents instead of taking them to Sheev for interrogation.

Have Rey’s parents say ‘She’s not on Jakku’ and have this actually work.

Have a scene set on a visually dramatic lava planet but constrain the action to a flat section of burned forest.

Introduce a map mcguffin but have it be found and used immediately by the villain, requiring the introduction of an identical copy of this mcguffin for the heroes to pursue, then a contrived reason for the villain to pursue the heroes instead of just waiting for them to find the second mcguffin and arrive at his location, which is what he wants to do anyway.

Give Chewie a fakeout death but almost immediately reveal that he is still alive.

Give enemy ships a new ability, then concoct a novel way of countering this ability, then cut the scene where all of this is paid off.

Retcon Leia as being basically a Jedi who does practically nothing with these skills for the rest of her life.

Have Leia communicate with Kylo through the Force and help redeem him at the cost of her life, then cut the communication bit so it looks like she dies for no reason.

Have Kylo hallucinate an image of his father, and have this appear to be what redeems him.

Cut Finn’s presence in the film down to ‘Fails to deliver a line’.

Make a point to give the Latino character a background in drug smuggling.

Give Poe a character arc in which he is burdened with the responsibility of leadership then cut any scene where it is displayed.

Give Threepio a complete memory wipe so that he can translate some data which was in his memory.

Trap characters on a doomed planet, but then have those same characters show up later with no explanation for their escape.

Introduce the concept of a ‘Force Dyad’, which means that when Kylo and Rey are together they have the amazing ability to be so strong that their power can be instantly drained from them by Palpatine. Since Kylo is required to be present for this to work, make him arrive on the planet via a standard TIE fighter, one specifically without a hyperdrive.

Cut almost all scenes of the Knights of Ren doing things.

Cut Rose.

Make a point of placing the ruins of the second Death Star on a planet which isn’t Endor, just to confuse people.

Make the most fanatical devotee of the First Order betray this organization because he doesn’t like the way its leader chews his food, or something.

As a symbolic illustration of Luke’s freedom from his exile on a remote island, cut his part to 1(one) scene which is constrained to only this island.

Make the villain’s planet both notoriously hard to get to but also extremely easy to get to by thousands of ships from across the galaxy.

Give the dangerous planet-destroying fleet the small weakness that without constant external guidance they will just crash. Also make their primary weapon unshielded and so poorly made that destroying it will blow up the ship.

Rule the villain’s defeat a suicide due to being very bad at his signature attack.

Set the final scene of the movie on a planet nobody in this universe cares about and has little meaning even to the main character. In fact, cut mention of any well-populated planet and make Bespin and Endor representative of the entire galaxy.

Call the movie which kills all the Skywalkers ‘The Rise of Skywalker’.

Post
#1330942
Topic
Ranking the Star Wars films
Time

I’ve decided that ranking these movies as some abstract exercise in filmic quality is folly. So I’m going to numerically rank them in terms of how I felt when they actually released:

First, the Star Wars:

  1. Star Wars - A stone cold timeless classic which has never been topped
  2. The Empire Strikes Back - The best Star Wars sequel and a perfect coming-of-age tale
  3. Return of the Jedi - A worthy sendoff of the trilogy with some of the best optical effects ever made

Next, the Attempt at Recapturing Star Wars:

  1. The Phantom Menace - A fascinating if flawed space adventure with a good mix of practical and digital effects
  2. Attack of the Clones - The inflection point of the saga, whiffing on almost everything except the score
  3. Revenge of the Sith - Taking all the poor choices of Clones and doubling down, officially killing the prequels

Finally, the Never Coming Close to Star Wars:

  1. The Force Awakens - The opening crawl throws Star Wars in the garbage, and it manages to get worse from there
  2. The Last Jedi - A sophomoric postmodernist deconstruction of the garbage fire that is this IP
  3. The Rise of Skywalker - An attempt so pathetic that it truly becomes so-bad-it’s-good

So yes, the Episode numbers exactly correspond with the quality of the saga, simply because each misstep of the previous entries becomes part of the story and lessens it. The story of Star Wars is legitimately worse because of the prequels, and the 1-6 ‘Saga’ is trivialized and trashed by the ST. Attack of the Clones is better than The Last Jedi simply because TLJ never had a chance to be part of a meaningful story.

Post
#1330913
Topic
Worst Edit Ideas
Time

Anakin Starkiller said:

Obi-Wan Force healing Luke back to life is actually a good idea IMO. It explains why he just gives up fighting Vader; he’s already dying anyway. As it stands he just gives up for no reason.

Man, Lucasfilm really needs to cool it with these special editions. I mean, I assume that’s what happened, they must have digitally removed that big pit in the floor separating Obi-wan from the Falcon, right? Because in the movie I have at home, he was caught on the far side of that pit and decided to buy Luke and co a few precious moments to escape.

Post
#1330821
Topic
Worst Edit Ideas
Time

Morgan the Boost said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

When Rey buries the lightsabers, she unearths the cloth-wrapped body (mummy?) of Shmi.

It occurred to my on my last re-watch (last night) that the Lars property has a perfectly good cemetery, but Rey is to lazy to go to it.

Ah, but you fail to take into account that acknowledging this cemetery would validate a small aspect of the prequel trilogy, and would obviously destroy the vast sea of goodwill built with the true fans of which Mister Abrams is a part.

Your statements reek of low class, Millennial entitlement which borders on, dare I say, outright Filoni-ism which actually disgusts me. Please refrain from such uncultured and unthinking observations in the future.

/s