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NeverarGreat

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11-Sep-2012
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19-Feb-2019
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Post
#1267674
Topic
Episode IX - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

RogueLeader said:

I don’t think the Force being dynamic doesn’t mean it is sentient. I think the Force awakening or being diminished can be compared to things like climate change. Even gravity or electricity can act differently when massive or conductive objects come into play. The Force changing doesn’t mean it has a will of its own, necessarily, even though the prequel Jedi seem to think so.

I really like the idea mentioned elsewhere that the Force originally behaved more like a fundamental constant of the universe, but when Jedi started to figure out how to retain their sentience after death they began to guide the Force with much more purpose.

Post
#1267564
Topic
Episode IX - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

DominicCobb said:

Misrepresentations when it comes to Rey tend to be extremely one sided. The other day someone said Rey’s “only moment of weakness” is when she fails to turn Ben. This is the same Rey that in one scene literally becomes so emotional that she runs crying into a forest to be alone.

Rey’s moments of weakness are too numerous to list, it’s when she’s put in life or death situations that she stands apart from Anakin and Luke.

I hope Episode 9 really delves into the deep psychological wounds of the character, since that’s where the real story is going to be.

Post
#1267557
Topic
Episode IX - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

yotsuya said:

In ANH and TESB, Luke had 1 failure using the force - lifting the X-wing. He did all the others the first time we see him try it (though not always on the first attempt, but that is the same with Rey).

He also failed at the Dagobah tree, and failed to contact Ben under Cloud City, and failed to mind trick Jabba, and failed to foresee the Rancor pit…

Luke stood his ground with Vader and several times drove him back. We didn’t really get to see the finish of Rey and Kylo’s first first fight because the breaking up of the planet separates them.

That’s like saying we don’t get to see the end of Luke’s fight with Vader because a vertical shaft has separated them, but I think it’s clear each time who came out of it unscathed and standing.

The second time, they don’t actually fight, except while trying to grab the lightsaber, which breaks in two. So Rey hasn’t exactly had a string of unqualified successes. If you really watch both films, you can see her many failures. But if you are concentrating on her force use in saying she never failed, then you have to look at Luke and how he rarely ever failed either.

All three of Luke’s final confrontations in the OT would have ended with him dying had it not been for sudden and fortuitous aid. Also, if you consider Qui-gon the main character of TPM, all of the prequels end with the hero being horribly beaten. Rey has held her own in each of her final confrontations and has basically saved herself each time.

At the end of TESB, Luke quickly goes from the horror of the revelation that Vader is his father to acceptance and then he gets a new hand and is smiling with Leia, who seems more upset than he is.

Smiling is a strong term.

At the end of TLJ, Rey, who was briefly elated by the success she and Chewy had in the air over Crait, is feeling dejected and wondering what the next step is.

There’s also the bit where she is all smiles as she reunites with BB-8 and Poe.

Luke is already executing a plan to rescue Han, but Rey has no plan. So yes, please delineate how Rey just has it so easy. I don’t see it that way and I fail to see how you can if you take into account all that we see on screen.

I’m all for viewing the sequel trilogy as drama more than action, so the relative power of the hero to the villain really doesn’t bother me that much. However, I do take exception to a misrepresentation of these movies.

Post
#1267396
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Laserschwert said:

I don’t think they have the ANH Falcon in any of the newer films though.

I guess recreating the SE shots would be a relatively easy task, if they could just salvage any of the camera and object animations of the old data. The shots themselves are much less complicated than what they are used to do today. Were they still using Softimage for the SE?

Anyway, re-rendering with updated models and rendering software would certainly open a can of worms and create just another SE.

Surely they could use the Falcon model used in TLJ, just replace the radar dish.

Post
#1267262
Topic
The &quot;Custom Special Edition&quot; That Will Likely Never Be
Time

It’s a nice shot, very slick like the new films. I dig it.

If I were to be creating a shot from scratch here, it would probably make more sense to have the Falcon appear in side view from the right side of the frame, then pan with it as the planet comes into view. That would visually connect with the final cockpit shot, but obviously we work with what we have.

Post
#1267080
Topic
The &quot;Custom Special Edition&quot; That Will Likely Never Be
Time

Hal 9000 said:

I’d be open to your idea, but I wasn’t planning on adding or altering any other shots. Vader establishes moments before the scene that the Falcon “has just made the jump into hyperspace,” so I don’t feel like an added establishing shot is necessary. Stylistically, ANH never depicts ships entering or exiting hyperspace in exterior shots, so I don’t have any problem with leaving everything else as is.

Except for when we see the Falcon disappear into Hyperspace in an exterior shot. Or do you mean where we see a ship transition into hyperspace in an exterior shot with the starfield giving way to the tunnel? Has that ever been done?

Post
#1266991
Topic
The Worst Scene/Sequence in Any Star Wars Film
Time

I’ll take a different direction with this concept, and list the missteps from each installment which were the most inconvenient and/or caused problems for the other movies:

ANH: The Clone Wars, a throwaway reference practically guaranteeing a prequel trilogy filled with faceless cannon-fodder.
ESB: Luke and Leia’s kiss, souring the sibling retcon.
ROTJ: Killing off all the major villains, leaving no substantial threat for future sequels.
TPM: Midichlorians, dissolving much of the mysticism of the Force.
AOTC: The Sandpeople slaughter, ending all sympathy for our protagonist in the middle of the story.
ROTS: The youngling slaughter, turning Anakin from merely unsympathetic to someone that Luke would surely never try to redeem, and by extension poisoning the entire purpose for the prequels.
TFA: Destroying the Republic Capital, ensuring another repeat of Rebels vs Empire.
TLJ: Hyperspace ramming, which in concept is more effective than capital ships, shields, and Death Stars.

Post
#1266855
Topic
The Force Awakens - The Starlight Project
Time

Although the scene placement sort of works where it is, it’s not nearly ideal, so I’ve been thinking about a scene which could separate the interrogation and rescue, and have an idea. It would need to be constructed entirely from bits and pieces of TFA and TLJ, but it would essentially be a better version of the Reydream and reveal the night they spent before the action starts in earnest:

The Starlight

JEDIT: Since it’s going to use hand-animated elements for the exterior shots, I can actually use set photos:

Feet

Original (Rey painted out):

Feet

After such a scene, it might be cool to play with the Finalizer hallway lighting to make it seem like Finn is rescuing Poe during the night shift.

Post
#1266805
Topic
Episode IX - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

RogueLeader said:

Force ability, in my opinion, shouldn’t be equated to physical training, like you would for a martial art, or for learning the piano.

The Force is based entirely on faith. The various powers have nothing to do with technique. It is all about believing in the Force, believe in it and its will, and also importantly, believing in yourself, because we all are a part of the Force.

It’s about believing that we are more than just “crude matter”. Since these films are meant to be fairy tales for children, then the message of believing in yourself is, to me, is a very important one. That was the same message the OT gave us.

Also, I personally don’t think the dark side should be interpreted as the evil side. The light and dark side are like yin and yang, which aren’t inherently good or evil. The Sith use the negative aspects of the dark side, and their own dark side, to bend the Force to their will unnaturally, rather than allowing themselves to let the Force guide them through life.

Those negative qualities that make people do bad things can be found in the dark side. Those emotions and qualities aren’t always inherently evil, but consuming oneself in those emotions can lead to imbalance.

Not a perfect description, but check out this article about the differentiate between yin and yang & good and evil. Then you can try to apply it to the Force.
http://www.jonasyunus.net/blog-the_yin_yang_of_good_evil

I agree with a lot of this perspective, but I believe that the core of Jedi ‘training’ is in fact the process of learning to believe in yourself and the power of the Force, which is much more emotionally driven than a physical martial arts training process. The emotions which generate the greatest results, peace and calm and connectedness and so forth, are subtle and take time to establish, whereas emotions such as fear and anger are quick and obvious. Things like death and violence, things which are implied to be part of the Dark Side, are actually part of the natural processes of the universe and so they are part of the ‘balance’ of the Force.

To put it another way, the light and dark sides of the Force arise naturally from the life of the universe, and the ecosystems of this life are largely symbiotic and self correcting. Where there is an overabundance of life, death must soon follow. Where there has been a great deal of death a Jedi might feel the presence of the Dark Side, but this is as malevolent as the tree on Dagobah - it merely reflects the fear of those who enter it.

Sentient life, however, is uncoupled from this natural symbiosis and balance. If a person finds an affinity for the Force, they can use it to whatever end they wish, and such a person can be a powerful lever which moves the life of the universe. A single person - Force sensitive or otherwise - can destroy entire planets in this universe, and the Force has no recourse for this except to make itself available to those who will return the balance of the natural living order.

Thus, whether or not there are equal Jedi and Sith, or lightsiders and dark, matters not at all in the grand scheme of things. The first order of life is to live in balance with yourself and all other life. The Sith by their nature led unbalanced lives, but it was of little concern of the galaxy until their power was used to terrible effect. Similarly, the Jedi became through their blindness and arrogance an instrument of terrible suffering, further destroying the balance of the Force. Through a single action, a darksider could restore balance to the Force and redeem themselves, just as through a single action a Jedi could negate all of their noble acts.

Post
#1266610
Topic
The Force Awakens - The Starlight Project
Time

After sitting with the previous restructuring for a while, I feel like it’s too much ‘A’ plot exposition to put the intimidation scene right after the Finn/Phasma confrontation. The trouble is, there’s really nowhere else to put the intimidation scene. I tried to place it right after Rey finds BB-8 and follow it directly with the escape, but it also feels too abrupt. The scene has become extremely dramatic in its current form and giving insufficient space on either side really compromises the gravity of the Starkiller visions.

I eventually made a place for it however, by breaking one of the rules. It’s now between Rey’s dinner and finding BB-8, which means that the Stormtrooper helmet transition from Finn to Rey is preserved, and actually strengthened by a pilot’s helmet transition on the other end, allowing Rey to be the symbolic link between Finn and Poe.

https://vimeo.com/313739936

Password: fanedit

Some color correction was required in the second half of Rey’s evening to make it feel like more time has passed.
There’s the issue of cutting away from Rey’s story before she is officially linked to the plot, but I think an audience would be sufficiently on board with Rey’s story to be intrigued by where it is headed.

Post
#1266521
Topic
Episode IX - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

DominicCobb said:

NeverarGreat said:

One could make the argument that Han has Force powers in TFA.

By one I mean me.

Han has Force powers in TFA.

I’ve always thought Han had the force. Why only TFA though?

Everyone has the potential for using the Force, and it is implied that there might be some weak abilities present in the OT, but it seems like the really impressive ESP has only developed by the time of TFA. I’m sure some training must have rubbed off of Luke and Leia over the years.

Post
#1266520
Topic
The Sequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread (Radical Ideas Welcome).
Time

DominicCobb said:

RogueLeader said:

I would personally leave the training stuff as is, for the reasons Nev mentioned earlier, but I am really curious to see if that caretaker restructure would work.

I’m not sure I understand Nev’s critique, to be perfectly honest. Rey’s moves are unrefined but I don’t find the scene comical at all.

The biggest issue with the scene for me personally is that the lightsaber is treated like a glowing stick rather than a deadly energy weapon. In the other Star Wars movies, characters took care to hold the saber away from themselves, but Rey almost immediately begins toying with it, flipping it around in one hand into an ineffective reverse grip (something that is almost always not done in sordfighting due to its limitations) and swinging it around with no regard for her surroundings, culminating in a complete loss of control and almost killing some caretakers.

So it’s not comical per se, except for the caretaker bit being played for laughs, but it does feel like it should be a strike against her readiness in the eyes of Luke.

Post
#1266500
Topic
Episode IX - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

OutboundFlight said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

He is able to exit Hyperspace between the Starkiller’s shields and the planet’s crust, a feat lifted from an early script of TPM where only Anakin’s Force ability was able to manage such a thing.

And no, the Force has always consistently been something that anyone can learn, but that some have a natural affinity for. That hasn’t changed.

Then why did Rey just suddenly get her powers, without working for anything? It’s explained very clearly in TLJ as the “darkness rises, and light to meet it”. Since Kylo trained for many years to become a dark lord, Rey must get all those powers within a couple days to restore balance (probably because Luke shut himself out).

I’m guessing that Kylo trained for years to become a Jedi, then relatively quickly embraced the ‘easier, more seductive’ pull of the Dark Side to quickly gain more power. The fact that Rey is so easily able to gain such abilities as well would make sense if she were using the Dark Side (and there’s some evidence that she is, such as Luke saying ‘you went right to the dark’), but absent that it seems like she just has more ability than Kylo.

Post
#1266435
Topic
Episode IX - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Consider the facts:

-TLJ establishes that the Force can arise in anyone, and GL has claimed that anyone can learn to use it.
-Han has spent thirty years around the most powerful Force users in the galaxy.
-He is a believer in the Force and has been for decades by the time of TFA.
-He has always had an abundance of luck, trusts his feelings over his rational mind, and is a quick draw with a blaster even in his early days.
-In ROTJ he shoots the Sarlacc without the use of his eyes (‘Trust me’), and in TFA he headshots a Stormtrooper without looking at him at all.
-He is able to exit Hyperspace between the Starkiller’s shields and the planet’s crust, a feat lifted from an early script of TPM where only Anakin’s Force ability was able to manage such a thing.

Post
#1266422
Topic
The Force Awakens - The Starlight Project
Time

Going off of Rogue’s suggestion, I’ve shifted Kylo’s ‘I leave that to you’ from the end of the interrogation to the villager scene. I think it works, the interrogation definitely so by giving some more breathing room at the end of the scene before cutting to Rey.

JEDIT: Also tested the Village attack without seeing Poe give the map to BB-8, and it works really well without even messing with the audio, and since it allows the audience to fill in the blanks for this scene or wait until the interrogation later, I think it’s a good change. While I was at it, I also cropped and color corrected the flickering red saber light before Kylo strikes down Tekka. Here’s the entire thing from the village attack to the interrogation:

https://vimeo.com/313617492

Password: fanedit

The one thing I’m not sure about is whether or not to show the destruction of Poe’s X-wing and BB-8 in the desert. On the one hand it’s some nice imagery and provides some buffer between scenes, on the other hand it broadcasts Poe’s plan while the point is to preserve some ambiguity.

Post
#1266367
Topic
The Sequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread (Radical Ideas Welcome).
Time

DominicCobb said:

NeverarGreat said:

DominicCobb said:

RogueLeader said:

Good point. The scene doesn’t bother me either, but just trying to see ways to make it more enjoyable for others. Although at this point I think people either like it or don’t, know matter how much I might try to make it more bearable for those who didn’t like it.

Honestly the more I think about the Last Jedi, the less things I think are necessary to change. I think for some inevitable edit of my own, I probably would use some of Hal’s trims as a basis (along with the additional Finn scenes, darthrush’s shift of the Yoda scene, and maybe a slightly altered opening crawl), but beyond that I think I would only introduce maybe two major additions that I haven’t scene before.

I myself have a fan edit in mind which is mostly pretty light save for one semi-major change that I haven’t seen proposed yet. Will post if I can ever get it to work right.

The suspense is killing me.

Well, depending on your definition of “semi-major,” I hope you don’t have your hopes up too high:
https://vimeo.com/313568431

(keep in mind this idea requires a decent amount of color correction, and this video just represents a rough mockup of that).

I see where you’re coming from with this idea, but for me it wouldn’t really work even if the color correction was perfect - Rey’s lightsaber moves in this scene are so amateurish that it feels like a joke, clashing with the intense music and Luke’s expression. If the music were changed or absent, the scene would actually work well as a humorous example of how unready she is to become a Jedi.