DominicCobb said:
CatBus said:
On a related note, this has been bumping around in my mind for a while now, and I just donāt like it. Trump is our first atheist President. Yeah, I know, he passes for Presbyterianāa lot of us have to pass for something for various reasons, and most of us are way more convincing than he is. But leaving that aside for a moment, what ābad reputationā do atheists have in the larger culture? Letās see: amoral, untrustworthy sociopaths who think theyāre inherently superior to everyone else. Uh-oh. Oh yeah, and at least during the Cold War they were also Russian agents. Igh.
So Iām really, really hoping, in spite of his ongoing collapse in popular support, that when Trump eventually slouches off stage left, that whatever mysterious hypnotic āIām one of youā hold he has on white Christians remains firmly in place. Because otherwise theyāll say: āThatās what happens when you put an atheist in charge,ā and weāre back to the days of debating if atheists can actually be Americans. Thatās all assuming that the evangelical support isnāt due to some speed-the-apocalypse-by-supporting-the-antichrist theory, but Iāve been assured by people who actually travel in evangelical circles that this is not the case. And I checked with multiple people, because I didnāt believe their assurances the first few times š
Iām with you there, except youāre forgetting Obama.
Wikipedia (yes, I know, thank you) says this:
Obama is a Protestant Christian whose religious views developed in his adult life.[77] He wrote in The Audacity of Hope that he āwas not raised in a religious householdā. He described his mother, raised by non-religious parents, as being detached from religion, yet āin many ways the most spiritually awakened person that I have ever known.ā He described his father as a āconfirmed atheistā by the time his parents met, and his stepfather as āa man who saw religion as not particularly useful.ā Obama explained how, through working with black churches as a community organizer while in his twenties, he came to understand āthe power of the African-American religious tradition to spur social change.ā[78]
In January 2008, Obama told Christianity Today: āI am a Christian, and I am a devout Christian. I believe in the redemptive death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I believe that faith gives me a path to be cleansed of sin and have eternal life.ā[79] On September 27, 2010, Obama released a statement commenting on his religious views saying āIām a Christian by choice. My family didnāt ā frankly, they werenāt folks who went to church every week. And my mother was one of the most spiritual people I knew, but she didnāt raise me in the church. So I came to my Christian faith later in life, and it was because the precepts of Jesus Christ spoke to me in terms of the kind of life that I would want to lead ā being my brothersā and sistersā keeper, treating others as they would treat me.ā[80][81]
Obama met Trinity United Church of Christ pastor Rev. Jeremiah Wright in October 1987, and became a member of Trinity in 1992.[82] He resigned from Trinity in May 2008 during his first presidential campaign after some of Wrightās statements were criticized.[83] The Obama family has attended several Protestant churches since moving to Washington, D.C., in 2009, including Shiloh Baptist Church and St. Johnās Episcopal Church, as well as Evergreen Chapel at Camp David, but are not habitual church-goers.[84][85][86]
And hereās Trump:
Religion
The Trump family were originally Lutherans in Germany,[52] and his motherās upbringing was Presbyterian in Scotland.[53] His parents married in a Manhattan Presbyterian church in 1936.[54] As a child, he attended Sunday School at the First Presbyterian Church in Jamaica, Queens, and had his confirmation there.[55][55] In the 1970s, his family joined the Marble Collegiate Church (a New York City affiliate of the Reformed Church in America) in Manhattan.[56] The pastor at that church, Norman Vincent Peale, author of The Power of Positive Thinking and The Art of Living, ministered to Trumpās family and mentored him until Pealeās death in 1993.[57][56] Trump, who is Presbyterian,[58][59] has cited Peale and his works during interviews when asked about the role of religion in his personal life.[56]
After marrying his first wife Ivana in 1977 at Marble Collegiate Church, he attended that church until 2013.[60][55] In 2016, Trump visited Bethesda-by-the-Sea, an Episcopal church, for Christmas services.[61] Trump has said that he participates in Holy Communion. Beyond that, he has not asked God for forgiveness, stating: āI think if I do something wrong, I just try and make it right. I donāt bring God into that picture.ā[62]
Trump refers to his ghostwritten book The Art of the Deal, a bestseller following publication in 1987, as āmy second favorite book of all time, after the Bible. Nothing beats the Bible.ā[63][64] In a 2016 speech to Liberty University, he referred to āTwo Corinthiansā instead of āSecond Corinthiansā, eliciting chuckles from the audience.[65] Despite this, The New York Times reported that Evangelical Christians nationwide thought āthat his heart was in the right place, that his intentions for the country were pureā.[66]
Outside of his church affiliations, Trump has relationships with a number of Christian spiritual leaders, including Florida pastor Paula White, who has been described as his āclosest spiritual confidantā.[67] In 2015, he asked for and received a blessing from Greek Orthodox priest Emmanuel Lemelson[68] and, in 2016, released a list of his religious advisers, including James Dobson, Jerry Falwell Jr., Ralph Reed and others.[69] Referring to his daughter Ivankaās conversion to Judaism before her marriage to Jared Kushner, Trump said in 2015: āI have a Jewish daughter; and I am very honored by that [ā¦] it wasnāt in the plan but I am very glad it happened.ā[70]
Now do I think that Obama is probably more on the agnostic side of the coin? Yes. But he definitively states that he is a Christian, and has explicitly said āI believe in the redemptive death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I believe that faith gives me a path to be cleansed of sin and have eternal life.ā Although Obama is good at weaseling his way around a question and exaggerating when necessary, I do not doubt that he values the truth and wouldnāt simply lie.
Trump, on the other hand, lies without a second thought, yet even when he could lie to protect his political prospects he says that āhe has not asked God for forgivenessā. Itās not exactly possible to be a Christian in that situation.