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NeverarGreat

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11-Sep-2012
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Post
#1513048
Topic
The Force Awakens: Starlight (V1.1 Released!)
Time

Another take on this ‘border territory’ idea:

EPISODE VII
THE FORCE AWAKENS

It is a time of darkness.
Luke Skywalker, striving
to restore the legendary
Jedi Order, has vanished.

With the shadow of evil
rising across the worlds
of the New Republic, a
few desperate Senators
have secretly called upon
a daring RESISTANCE to
search for the last Jedi
within the domain of the
vengeful fallen Empire.

Answering this call, the
ace pilot Poe Dameron
has discovered a clue to
Luke’s location on the
desolate world of Jakku,
unaware that the sinister
FIRST ORDER now rules
these darkening stars…

This feels pretty natural, except for the final lines where it implies that nobody knows about the First Order at all, which isn’t true.

Alternately:

EPISODE VII
THE FORCE AWAKENS

It is a time of darkness.
Luke Skywalker, striving
to restore the legendary
Jedi Order, has vanished.

With the New Republic
overwhelmed by turmoil,
a few desperate Senators
have secretly called upon
a brave RESISTANCE to
search for the last Jedi
within the domain of the
evil FIRST ORDER, heir
to the fallen Empire.

Answering this call, the
ace pilot Poe Dameron
has discovered a clue to
Luke’s location on the
desolate world of Jakku,
unaware of the shadow
now rising to extinguish
the darkening stars…

This one puts a lot of information in the second paragraph, but the upshot is that the First Order is established before the final lines and those can be put to use in hinting at Starkiller Base as well as setting up the first shot.

Post
#1512975
Topic
The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

The bigger issue with this whole plot is that as Pan says, it makes no sense.

1: Why do the Separatists want Amidala dead if she is the one opposing a military response to the Separatists, and as such is the closest thing to an ally that they have?

2: Why did Dooku hire Jango for the job of being a template for the clone army and then act completely surprised at such an army’s existence?

3: Why is Mace Windu, who has intimate knowledge of the plot, not immediately suspicious that the template for the Clone Army seems to be in the employ of Separatists, and why does he kill Jango when he wanted him alive?

4: Why does the Republic not know about the army that they ostensibly ordered? Did the cloners not bother to get any confirmation or send any updates?

I suppose that for the first question, perhaps the Separatists want to push the Republic into a war since they believe that they can win with their secret droid army, not knowing that the Republic will soon have an army of its own. But for this to really make sense, we would already have to know about the secret power of the Separatists and their plan before the assassination attempt, otherwise it seems to be an attack by a Republic hardliner.

For the second question, it seems absurd that Jango would have never discussed with Dooku that the job Dooku hired him for was to build a secret army for the Republic. Are we meant to infer that Dooku knows about and expects the arrival of the clones and is just playacting the fool for the other Separatists in service to Palpatine’s plot? If that is the case, why does he attempt to convince Obi-wan that there’s an evil Sith in control of the Republic, potentially threatening his entire plan? Dooku is painted first as a peaceful idealist, then the strong leader of the Separatists, then a fanatical destructive nihilist, then an easily duped fool, then a duplicitous schemer in league with his avowed enemy. It’s enough to make a person’s head spin, and for this to work we again would need some idea of what this character actually believes so that we aren’t left feeling lost and confused when he does things entirely contrary to his previous characterization.

The third question is genuinely perplexing. If Jango had died in some accident before being apprehended by the Jedi, or even if he was killed by another Jedi before Mace could get to him, it would make sense. But Mace specifically wants Jango alive and then kills him. Furthermore, Mace doesn’t seem to care that he is in the employ of the Separatists. There would need to be an explanation that Jango was playing both sides in this conflict independently of anyone else for this to begin to evade suspicion, but there’s no evidence of that.

Finally, why is there no communication between the cloners and the Senate? Perhaps the cloners are in contact with Palpatine, who is assuring them that everything is good and to keep this under wraps for now, but again, there would need to be some scene where the Kaminoan leadership is in contact with Palpatine, and there’s no indication that this is happening. It genuinely seems like the cloners have been doing this alone for ten years since they don’t even know that Syfo Dias was killed.

I think a lot of the issues here stem from the plot being too confusing and relying on information which is not immediately obvious to the viewer. So perhaps to simplify things, there should be many sides to the conflict, disentangled from Palpatine. If Dooku were a genuine idealist who acts on his own and uses the Dark Side as a means to enact political change, it would give the Separatists an actual identity. Remove the scene at the end of the film where he meets Palpatine. Next, make Jango Fett an independent actor who uses his infamy to contract with both sides of the conflict. This is where the Jedi’s admonition for Obi-wan to avoid assumptions pays off. Have a communication between Nute Gunray and Jango where he is ordered to kill Amidala and make it look like militarists in the Republic were behind it, and use his own discretion in creating this appearance. Jango decides to lead the Jedi to the cloning facility to achieve this end, then goes to his real master to report on the situation. He does not plan on being tracked, however. For the killing of Jango Fett, it would make sense that he is killed by something other than Mace. Perhaps he is killed by the giant beast in the pit, thwarting the Jedi’s interrogation.

So for the new scene, I propose Nute Gunray communicating with Zam Wessel after the assassination attempt on the landing platform and the introduction of the Jedi.

Nute: “Is she dead yet?”
Zam: “No. They used a decoy, and now the Jedi are involved.”
Nute: “The Republic cannot know of our involvement here. My master is sending a bounty hunter to deal with these Jedi…and to help complete your mission.”
Zam: “Is that a threat?”
Nute: “Think of it as motivation.”

This scene lets us know early on that the Separatists are behind the plot to kill Padme. We already know that Nute is in league with Palpatine, and so we assume that either Dooku or Palpatine provided Nute with Jango Fett. That this scene comes after the insistence of Palpatine for security primes the audience to expect Palpatine to be playing both sides. The inclusion of Jango as a later addition to the assassination plot makes sense of the two assassins angle, and Jango being the go-to man for both Nute and Palpatine gives the audience that conceptual bridge that would otherwise short-circuit the two secret armies plots. The fact that Jango hangs around Dooku is a red herring for those believing Padme’s assertion that Dooku is behind the assassination attempts. With the removal of the scene of Dooku and Palpatine at the end of the film, this implies that only Nute is directly under the control of Palpatine and this makes Palpatine’s plan more tricky since he cannot fully control Dooku, the leader of the Separatists.

Post
#1512971
Topic
The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

Thanks Paja, but my suggestion was more of a joke.

But it actually might work.

“Do you think these cloners are involved in the plot to assassinate Senator Amidala?”
“Yes Master, there appears to be a motive.” (The ‘a’ can be a pause covered by static if necessary)
“Don’t assume anything, Obi-wan. Clear, your mind must be, if you are to uncover the real villains behind this plot.”

This way Obi-wan is perhaps jumping to conclusions while Yoda senses a deeper evil.

Post
#1512495
Topic
Star Wars Headcanons
Time

Each Trilogy happens within its own self-contained universe.

In light of this, the Emperor in the OT has no Force sensitivity but has merely cultivated an illusion of its power by the use of simple tricks and nonsense in order to win and keep Vader under his command.

-All of his ‘predictions’ in ESB and ROTJ are simple extrapolations where they are not him simply claiming that things Vader had just told him had been foreseen.

-His unlocking of Luke’s cuffs could be done by remote.

-His lightning is identical in look and function to a simple ion beam such as the one used by the Jawas on R2, and such a weapon could be easily hidden in his robes. The beam seems to work only weakly on the biological Luke but almost instantly fries the electronics of Vader’s suit, just like a droid-disabling weapon. Nobody else in the OT uses Force Lightning, not even the powerful Vader, which could be further evidence that it is merely a trick.

-When he is thrown down the reactor shaft, the resulting explosion could be from his power source exploding or from striking some sort of reactor on the way down.

Post
#1512391
Topic
No clouds on Tatooine
Time

There are actually quite a few clouds on Tatooine throughout all three prequels:

https://youtu.be/e3NRzGrt5z0?t=11
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiLVNGl8rew
https://youtu.be/6C--Zttls8I?t=128

Those devices seen around the Lars homestead are moisture 'vaporators, presumably used to pull moisture from the atmosphere, so there’s clearly something up there.

So to answer the original question, I think the presence of clouds on Tatooine in the original film is perfectly fine, even if the ones in the first scene are unusually fluffy.

Post
#1512223
Topic
The Force Awakens: Starlight (V1.1 Released!)
Time

All good points. I could have the crawl focus on the search for Luke and the concept that the galaxy is divided between the New Republic and First Order territories:

It is a time of darkness.
Luke Skywalker, striving
to restore the light of the
Jedi Order, has vanished.

Searching the galaxy for
the legendary last Jedi,
a fearless New Republic
task force has uncovered
a clue to Luke’s location
on the borders of the
fallen Empire, sovereign
territory of the sinister
FIRST ORDER.

Secretly supported by a
few honorable Senators,
leaders of the fearless
RESISTANCE have sent
their best pilot to recover
this clue, unaware that
they are ensnared in a
rising shadow of evil…

This format has some issues, since it doesn’t really make sense to introduce the Resistance without first introducing what they are resisting, and I can’t do that without talking about the search for Luke taking the Resistance to the borders of First Order space. It’s maddeningly circular.

I did try to make ‘mysterious’ work for the First Order, but it just wouldn’t fit on the line very well. I also think ‘sinister’ works with both being evil and with being unknown.

Post
#1511970
Topic
The Force Awakens: Starlight (V1.1 Released!)
Time

Yep, the idea of Starkiller as massive overkill for Luke is something I had thought of earlier in the thread 😃

To your point about the Republic not believing that the First Order is threatening them, here’s the paragraph which separates the New Republic from the First Order’s threat:

With his memory fading
into legend throughout
the New Republic, the
evil FIRST ORDER has
risen from a stronghold
of the fallen Empire to
proclaim that those still
loyal to the ancient Jedi
shall be destroyed.

Post
#1511927
Topic
The Force Awakens: Starlight (V1.1 Released!)
Time

This is one of the tensions I’m constantly fighting with in the worldbuilding (or lack thereov) around TFA. I could suggest that the Republic is falling apart under attacks from the First Order, but that begs the question of why they don’t use their defensive fleet and take action against these obvious aggressors. On the other hand, if I make the Jedi central to the identity of the Republic, then I run into the problem you state where the Jedi don’t feel like long-vanished myths.

The trouble is that without a clear source of something which causes the New Republic to become hopelessly overwhelmed by chaos, they will simply look inherently weak and incompetent. And if I try to describe exactly how the Republic is failing due to the complex factors of the Jedi being absent and the First Order’s agents infiltrating the Senate and causing gridlock and doing terror attacks with surgical precision to destabilize the Republic’s power and increase support for an Imperial style of government, well then I have six paragraphs with no signs of stopping.

I do see what you mean though. The film does portray the Jedi as essentially extinct and forgotten. I just need to thread the needle somehow, pinning the Republic’s problems on the lack of the Jedi while not specifically saying that the Republic is grieving at their recent loss.

JEDIT: Perhaps something like this:

It is a time of desolation.
Luke Skywalker, striving
to restore the light of the
Jedi Order, has vanished.

With his memory fading
into legend, the sinister
FIRST ORDER has risen
from a hidden stronghold
of the fallen Empire to
proclaim that anyone in
the New Republic with
faith in the ancient Jedi
shall be destroyed.

Appalled by this decree,
a few faithful Senators
have secretly lent their
support to the mission
of a brave RESISTANCE
to find the last Jedi and
restore peace and justice
to the darkening stars…

Post
#1511821
Topic
The Force Awakens: Starlight (V1.1 Released!)
Time

One more slight update. I put the previous version to music and realized that there is a dramatic musical sting which happens at the fourth and sixth lines of the second paragraph. To capitalize on this I shifted the reveal of the First Order and its fortress down a line.

It is a time of desolation.
Luke Skywalker, striving
to restore the legendary
Jedi Order, has vanished.

With the New Republic
overwhelmed by chaos
and despair, the sinister
FIRST ORDER has risen
from the shadows of a
hidden Imperial fortress
to proclaim that anyone
who seeks the lost Jedi
shall be destroyed.

Appalled by this decree,
a few faithful Senators
have secretly lent their
support to the mission
of a brave RESISTANCE
to find the last Jedi and
restore peace and justice
to the darkening stars…

Post
#1511778
Topic
The Force Awakens: Starlight (V1.1 Released!)
Time

A good effort, however I have to keep in mind the restraints of word length and how they will fit into the crawl dimensions.

Taking another crack at it, I managed to get ‘hidden’ in there, and also moved the Republic so that the sentence reads more clearly:

EPISODE VII
THE FORCE AWAKENS

It is a time of despair.
Luke Skywalker, striving
to restore the legendary
Jedi Order, has vanished.

With the New Republic
in turmoil, the sinister
FIRST ORDER has risen
from the shadows of a
hidden Imperial fortress
to proclaim that anyone
who dares to search for
the missing Jedi shall be
destroyed.

Appalled by this decree,
a few faithful Senators
have secretly lent their
support to the mission
of a brave RESISTANCE
to find the last Jedi and
restore peace and justice
to the darkening stars…

Post
#1511750
Topic
The Force Awakens: Starlight (V1.1 Released!)
Time

And another not-so-slight edit to the crawl, because why not 😉

EPISODE VII
THE FORCE AWAKENS

It is a time of despair.
Luke Skywalker, striving
to restore the legendary
Jedi Order, has vanished.

In Luke’s absence, the
evil FIRST ORDER has
risen from a stronghold
of the fallen Empire to
declare throughout the
wretched New Republic
that anyone seeking the
Jedi’s return shall face
obliteration.

Appalled by this decree,
a few faithful Senators
have secretly lent their
support to the mission
of a brave RESISTANCE
to find the last Jedi and
restore peace and justice
to the darkening stars…

This has some vocabulary, but hopefully it’s not too much. The intention is to give the First Order a plan that doesn’t contradict canon or the film yet also makes them maximally threatening. The idea of them having a vendetta against people who want Luke back fits the film since all three of their major attacks occur on those in support of the Jedi.

The relationship of the New Republic to the Resistance also threads the needle between keeping the Senate in a minor role and explaining why they are not taking public action against the First Order, namely that the First Order has presumably only threatened violence against pro-Jedi factions before the start of the film and not directly attacked the Republic itself. The final paragraph also lends some tragedy to the Republic.

The only thing I wish were included in this crawl was a reference to the Imperial base being hidden, but that can be presumed.

Post
#1510546
Topic
<em><strong>ANDOR</strong></em> - Disney+ Series - A General Discussion Thread
Time

timdiggerm said:

NeverarGreat said:

If the Empire was trying to trick a group of people into being prisoners for life, I imagine that pretending to release them only to give them a new sentence would only work once. Maybe the prisoners are ‘released’ only to be transported to the neighboring prison building for the remainder of their life sentences, and one prisoner was accidentally placed back in the same building in a different level, at which point the game was up.

But wouldn’t they just be like “…hey I was supposed to be released!” to their new team, and then we end up with the same problem?

I’m imagining that there are two prison systems, one for prisoners who believe that they are working out a temporary sentence and one for prisoners who know that they are in for life. Whenever prisoners complete their sentence in the first system they are transferred to the second system (perhaps in a different building altogether) and so everyone there knows that they have been lied to and they are in for life.

This gets screwed up if someone who was supposed to be released is placed back into the first prison system instead of going to the second, which may be what has happened with the prisoner on Level 2.

Post
#1510518
Topic
<em><strong>ANDOR</strong></em> - Disney+ Series - A General Discussion Thread
Time

If the Empire was trying to trick a group of people into being prisoners for life, I imagine that pretending to release them only to give them a new sentence would only work once. Maybe the prisoners are ‘released’ only to be transported to the neighboring prison building for the remainder of their life sentences, and one prisoner was accidentally placed back in the same building in a different level, at which point the game was up.

Post
#1510062
Topic
The <strong>Original Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

Leia as Luke’s sister is already convoluted and unnecessary, but there’s nothing to be done about that unless you’re willing to remove a significant aspect of ROTJ. All this solution does is remove the convenient universe-shrinkage and replace it with something a bit more mystical. I agree that it’s not perfect, but what more could be done?

Post
#1509915
Topic
Did you think Dagobah was Yoda’s homeworld the prequels were made?
Time

I assume the title should say ‘before the prequels were made’, and if so, then yes, I did. An amphibious creature seems at home in a marsh. That is not to say that he never left Dagobah, but I still can’t see a nature-loving person like Yoda feeling at home on Coruscant or in charge of the entire Jedi Order.

Neither Vader nor the Emperor seem to even suspect that Yoda had a hand in training Luke, so it feels very much like Yoda was solidly in retirement for hundreds of years before the events of the prequels, and his training Obi-wan was probably a quiet, spiritual affair much like Luke being drawn to Dagobah in the OT. I imagine a lot of the Jedi Masters, which were solely teachers before the prequel retcons, lived quiet secluded lives on worlds of their choosing, living in harmony with their creatures and people and in that way keeping the peace across the galaxy. Jedi Knights on the other hand were specifically warriors who used their Force abilities to serve the Old Republic, and as such would have to find training from other Knights or from Masters whom they could convince to train such dangerous, headstrong youth.