NeverarGreat

StarkillerAG said:

NeverarGreat said:

1: How would Obi-wan be made to acknowledge that Grevious is his prior student? I suppose some introduction could be made during the crawl since that is also the case in the theatrical version, but it would need to be buttressed by dialogue from Obi-wan confirming their history. This would have to happen early in ROTS, since Obi-wan could only have taken another apprentice during the Clone Wars after Anakin had become a Jedi Knight.

Actually, I was planning to have Obi-Wan mentor Grievous before TPM: in my planned saga edit, it will be established that Padawans can tutor other Padawans in a Japanese senpai/kohai sort of fashion. And I don’t think it’s possible to have Obi-Wan mention a previous apprentice, but I was planning to add some redubbed lines from Yoda hinting at it. For example, after Qui-Gon says that Obi-Wan is ready to take an apprentice, Yoda says something like “Your Padawan had an apprentice once. Know how well that turned out, we do.” The teases would get more explicit in AOTC, until Grievous is finally revealed in ROTS.

2: If Grievous is already so far gone as to have a metal cranium, it would be pretty clear that this is not the character in the OT when we see the back of Vader’s head in ESB. There’s also the problem that Vader in the OT and Grievous in the PT have entirely different ways of moving, with Grievous being much more alien and animalisitic in his movements.

One, I’m planning to edit the OT too, and I already knew that I would have to cut out that helmet bit. And two, I feel like Grievous being more alien and animalistic could be explained by him, well, having an alien and animalistic body. It would be implied that after Grievous’s apparent death at Obi-Wan’s hands, his robot body was upgraded into a more lifelike, human form. Of course, this wouldn’t turn out to actually be the case, but still.

3: Obi-wan in ANH says that Vader betrayed and murdered Luke’s father. However, there is no one-on-one fight between Grievous and Anakin, and Grievous dies in act 2 long before we see the last of Anakin. If the film is cut to imply that Grievous survives, this would also necessitate Anakin surviving to be killed later by Grievous, but this introduces many more problems as well as leaving unclear how Grievous would ‘betray’ Anakin if he was already a darksider when they met (this is a problem with my latest Prequel concept as well, but it could easily be fixed by having Obi-wan’s apprentice meet and befriend Anakin earlier in their adventures).

I thought about that too, but I figured it would be fine if the audience already knows that Obi-Wan is lying to at least some degree. There are some edits that already do that by having the “reveal” in ESB be that Anakin survived the Mustafar battle and became Vader, but I think my idea is an improvement by allowing Vader to still be described as Obi-Wan’s apprentice rather than just some generic mook.

Ah, well if you’re editing the OT it would be a lot easier to make this work!

More generally, as far as redubbing a major character, Grievous is a good choice due to not needing any lip sync. I’d be curious to read your version of his dialogue incorporated into the scenes of the film.

It’s an interesting idea, but one that comes with a host of problems to solve.

1: How would Obi-wan be made to acknowledge that Grevious is his prior student? I suppose some introduction could be made during the crawl since that is also the case in the theatrical version, but it would need to be buttressed by dialogue from Obi-wan confirming their history. This would have to happen early in ROTS, since Obi-wan could only have taken another apprentice during the Clone Wars after Anakin had become a Jedi Knight.

2: If Grievous is already so far gone as to have a metal cranium, it would be pretty clear that this is not the character in the OT when we see the back of Vader’s head in ESB. There’s also the problem that Vader in the OT and Grievous in the PT have entirely different ways of moving, with Grievous being much more alien and animalisitic in his movements.

3: Obi-wan in ANH says that Vader betrayed and murdered Luke’s father. However, there is no one-on-one fight between Grievous and Anakin, and Grievous dies in act 2 long before we see the last of Anakin. If the film is cut to imply that Grievous survives, this would also necessitate Anakin surviving to be killed later by Grievous, but this introduces many more problems as well as leaving unclear how Grievous would ‘betray’ Anakin if he was already a darksider when they met (this is a problem with my latest Prequel concept as well, but it could easily be fixed by having Obi-wan’s apprentice meet and befriend Anakin earlier in their adventures).

These are the problems that I can think of off the top of my head. The frustrating thing is that Grievous has many aspects that would make him a good fit for this role, like being a cyborg with a raspy voice and being trained to kill Jedi, but the leap between that and Obi-wan’s fallen apprentice and onetime friend of Anakin Skywalker is just too great in my opinion. I’d very much like to be proven wrong, however, so if anyone wants to try and make this work all the power to you!

Has anyone ever done a fan subtitle of the Wookie scenes? That might be worth the effort, especially if they were funny.

If I were in charge of a prequel story with Anakin Skywalker, I would not have him transform into Darth Vader during those episodes, at least, not fully. Instead, this would happen between the Prequels and the Original Trilogy.

Anakin in the PT is essentially Flash Gordon with a few notable changes. He comes from a farming planet in the colony worlds and is recruited to fight in the Republic Space Force by General Obi-wan Kenobi, who is secretly part of an order of Jedi Knights, reclusive warriors under the personal command of the Republic’s High Chancellor who are rumored to use a mystical energy source to achieve amazing feats. He is similar to Hans Zarkov except that instead of the magic of science, he uses literal magic that he implies is mere scientific trickery.

Obi-wan comes to believe that Anakin may be able to use this Force, and inducts him into the order of Knights, overriding the normal order of training where a Knight would be trained under a peaceful Jedi Master, one who had devoted their life to balance and tranquility. He confides with Anakin that this is not the first student he has had, and his prior attempt ended with failure. Nevertheless, Anakin agrees to the training. While training, Anakin and Obi-wan are tasked by the High Chancellor with protecting the planet of Alderaan. They are joined in this quest by a Republic translator and diplomatic envoy to Alderaan, who is to become the mother of Luke (A Dale Arden-style character). She is secretly a princess of Alderaan but she conceals her true nature from the Jedi in order that she could ascertain their true interest in the planet. For you see, even at this time Alderaan was wary of the increasing power of the High Chancellor, and they sought to protect their autonomy from the growing reach of the Republic Army and its secret service of Jedi Knights. Anakin and ‘Dale’ fall in love, but it is only Obi-wan who suspects her true identity. Having saved Alderaan, the trio go on to have many more adventures during the wars.

The wars rage on, with legions of genetically identical clones fighting the Republic forces. The Jedi are increasingly isolated since the old Jedi Masters now believe that the Jedi have become too warlike, and the Jedi recognize this as well. They distance themselves from the Republic, but even as they do so a mysterious dark warrior arrives and begins hunting down the Jedi. One by one, the Jedi start disappearing, always at the hands of this mysterious warrior. During the climactic battle for the Republic, the mysterious warrior appears in black armor to fight Obi-wan, claiming to be his prior student. He says that he is faithful to the High Chancellor, and that the Jedi have betrayed the Republic even in its time of dire need. Obi-wan say that the Jedi have given everything to the Republic, but this is not enough for the dark warrior. He strikes Obi-wan down, and it is believed that he is dead. Anakin hears of this and hunts down the dark warrior, finally fighting him above a pool of lava. They both fall into that pit and it is only at the end that we learn that Obi-wan survived. He goes to ‘Dale’ to tell her the news. he sees that she has a baby boy, and she gives this to him to be raised with Anakin’s family who are moving to the outer rim in search of a new home, escaping the war-torn desolation of their blasted homeworld. Obi-wan, seeing that ‘Dale’ is sick and not long for this world, goes to watch over the boy. The final scenes show that one of the warriors has survived the fall into lava, and returns to the High Chancellor to help rule over this new Empire that he has helped to create.

TL;DR: I don’t think that Anakin’s turn need be difficult or complicated. He was a simple man of action who fought in the wars for the Republic, in whatever form that government would take. Nobody bothered to ask him about his politics, and by the time anyone would have thought to ask it was already too late.

Check your PMs 😃

Fair enough.

In fact, Ben says that ‘for a thousand generations the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic’, which could mean that the Old Republic was around long before the Jedi. Either way, one of them is way off in their reckoning.

This is just more evidence that each trilogy takes place in its own self-contained universe, with only the illusion of continuity to connect them.

The Last Crusade is the best Indiana Jones movie and y’all are just wrong.

On topic, Sunset Boulevard. We saw this at the Alamo Drafthouse and it was pretty great on the big screen.

I was thinking the other day about the final scene of ANH, particularly how it might be treated in an Andor-style show set just after ANH.

I’ve always assumed that the medal ceremony was a great way to end a film but a terrible decision from an in-universe tactical viewpoint, but actually it could serve a critical propaganda role. If that ceremony were broadcast out into the universe, it would send the message that not only did the Rebel Alliance destroy the Death Star, but it was destroyed by just a single lowly pilot with the aid of his friends. Furthermore, the Alliance feels so confident in their victory that they are willing to remain at their base even as the Empire moves to regroup and strike back.

I can imagine a Nemik-style manifesto inspired by this:

“And so in a single brilliant flash worlds across the despairing galaxy saw something impossible; not the quarreling factions of the so-called Alliance, but a vision of unity. A farmhand, a smuggler, a Wookiee, even two lowly droids, standing shoulder-to-shoulder with the leaders of the Rebel Alliance and a Senator of the assassinated Old Republic. This was the real coup that turned Imperial blood to ice. The loss of their superweapon was a blow to the Empire’s materiel and money…but this vision of unity in the face of annihilation obliterated their thesis of order, the crucible of their unassailable power.”

I think Luke’s death would have worked if it felt in any way inevitable. I remember watching it for the first time and thinking ‘Oh that’s neat, Luke made an illusion so that he could live’, and then he goes and dies immediately afterwards. Sure, it’s established that Rey would die if she projected herself across the galaxy, but Snoke can do it without breaking a sweat so it just makes Luke canonically no more powerful than Rey and weaker than Snoke, a guy who dies in one of the most embarrassing ways imaginable.

That’s a slick attempt! I agree that the music at the end of the scene should continue to cover the intro to Palpatine’s office, or the music should be deleted in that transition completely.

Also, this isn’t a critique with your work but with the scene itself, but the sparring scene feels weird and has since the beginning. The biggest problem for me is the strange cut near the end when Obi-wan leaps into action again. It feels like there’s a missing shot, and I assume this was a cut point in the original scene but there’s definitely a loss of continuity here. The lines ‘Your weapon’s gone…it’s over.’ followed by ‘Your need for victory, Anakin, it blinds you’ feel superfluous to the flow before and after. Obi-wan’s next line ‘You’re a great warrior, Anakin…’ feels like the proper end to the action, and it may be best to just delete the second false ending altogether. I’d suggest cutting from Obi-wan being disarmed straight to the wideshot of Obi-wan spinning out of his crouch to put an end to the fight.

As to my thoughts on overall placement of the scene, I’m still unconvinced that it wouldn’t work better after Palpatine’s office. That just seems like the most natural place in terms of the exposition and flow of Star Wars movies, and I’m not too bothered by the differences in character appearance. Any AOTC edit which uses upscaled deleted scenes is going to be at least a little suboptimal, visually speaking.

My ideal placement is still Senate - Palpatine’s Office - Sparring - Padme’s Apartment (sans elevator).

Yeah, sites like this and fanediting in general exist despite the forces of capitalism. There will always be a group of passionate (or deviant) weirdos who do things regardless of profit motive, but I imagine that a vast amount of troubling, manipulative, or exploitative content online only exists because there’s money to be made doing it.

https://i.imgur.com/YbftNwO.mp4

Mango, I think I speak for everyone when I say you don’t need to apologize to anyone here. Personal life comes first, especially in a place like this. I’ve learned over the years that one should take care of oneself and only work on projects if they give enjoyment in return.

Prepunishment: the feeling of hearing a convoluted setup to what you are sure will be a tortured and unsatisfying pun.

I think the added clarity is nice, though it does bring to the forefront the inherent issues in the voice. It sounds like ‘I love you’ is too close to the camera for a line delivered from a medium distance away from the camera. For instances like this I find that adding just a touch of reverb can help ‘place’ the sound into the environment, though you don’t want to overdo the effect.

Another issue may be that the line is too centralized in the mix. If the sound is coming from the central channel it gives the effect that the camera is placed directly in front of an actor, so putting some of the voice in the left and right speakers, and even maybe some reflected sound in the rear speakers, may help for a surround mix.

Finally, the line is definitely lower in energy than you’d expect for Finn’s usual shouted delivery, so perhaps instead of increasing the volume of the line, you could try decreasing the volume of the surrounding effects.

All in all, I think your first attempt sounds more natural in terms of timing and volume, but these suggestions may give that version the clarity you’re after without highlighting the limitations of the line.

Sounds pretty great to me!

^That’s rad! I bet the new bad guys have a ton of new ships and weapons if they have a new leader.

I want to hear about the New Republic. Does Thrawn make an appearance? And does Mara Jade pop up, or do they go crazy and have Luke married?

Let’s not forget the classic scene where he sees the Jedi temple in flames and the sound of lightsabers and blaster fire, and decides that this is a good moment to act like an uptight neighbor breaking up a house party.

Another take on this ‘border territory’ idea:

EPISODE VII
THE FORCE AWAKENS

It is a time of darkness.
Luke Skywalker, striving
to restore the legendary
Jedi Order, has vanished.

With the shadow of evil
rising across the worlds
of the New Republic, a
few desperate Senators
have secretly called upon
a daring RESISTANCE to
search for the last Jedi
within the domain of the
vengeful fallen Empire.

Answering this call, the
ace pilot Poe Dameron
has discovered a clue to
Luke’s location on the
desolate world of Jakku,
unaware that the sinister
FIRST ORDER now rules
these darkening stars…

This feels pretty natural, except for the final lines where it implies that nobody knows about the First Order at all, which isn’t true.

Alternately:

EPISODE VII
THE FORCE AWAKENS

It is a time of darkness.
Luke Skywalker, striving
to restore the legendary
Jedi Order, has vanished.

With the New Republic
overwhelmed by turmoil,
a few desperate Senators
have secretly called upon
a brave RESISTANCE to
search for the last Jedi
within the domain of the
evil FIRST ORDER, heir
to the fallen Empire.

Answering this call, the
ace pilot Poe Dameron
has discovered a clue to
Luke’s location on the
desolate world of Jakku,
unaware of the shadow
now rising to extinguish
the darkening stars…

This one puts a lot of information in the second paragraph, but the upshot is that the First Order is established before the final lines and those can be put to use in hinting at Starkiller Base as well as setting up the first shot.

The bigger issue with this whole plot is that as Pan says, it makes no sense.

1: Why do the Separatists want Amidala dead if she is the one opposing a military response to the Separatists, and as such is the closest thing to an ally that they have?

2: Why did Dooku hire Jango for the job of being a template for the clone army and then act completely surprised at such an army’s existence?

3: Why is Mace Windu, who has intimate knowledge of the plot, not immediately suspicious that the template for the Clone Army seems to be in the employ of Separatists, and why does he kill Jango when he wanted him alive?

4: Why does the Republic not know about the army that they ostensibly ordered? Did the cloners not bother to get any confirmation or send any updates?

I suppose that for the first question, perhaps the Separatists want to push the Republic into a war since they believe that they can win with their secret droid army, not knowing that the Republic will soon have an army of its own. But for this to really make sense, we would already have to know about the secret power of the Separatists and their plan before the assassination attempt, otherwise it seems to be an attack by a Republic hardliner.

For the second question, it seems absurd that Jango would have never discussed with Dooku that the job Dooku hired him for was to build a secret army for the Republic. Are we meant to infer that Dooku knows about and expects the arrival of the clones and is just playacting the fool for the other Separatists in service to Palpatine’s plot? If that is the case, why does he attempt to convince Obi-wan that there’s an evil Sith in control of the Republic, potentially threatening his entire plan? Dooku is painted first as a peaceful idealist, then the strong leader of the Separatists, then a fanatical destructive nihilist, then an easily duped fool, then a duplicitous schemer in league with his avowed enemy. It’s enough to make a person’s head spin, and for this to work we again would need some idea of what this character actually believes so that we aren’t left feeling lost and confused when he does things entirely contrary to his previous characterization.

The third question is genuinely perplexing. If Jango had died in some accident before being apprehended by the Jedi, or even if he was killed by another Jedi before Mace could get to him, it would make sense. But Mace specifically wants Jango alive and then kills him. Furthermore, Mace doesn’t seem to care that he is in the employ of the Separatists. There would need to be an explanation that Jango was playing both sides in this conflict independently of anyone else for this to begin to evade suspicion, but there’s no evidence of that.

Finally, why is there no communication between the cloners and the Senate? Perhaps the cloners are in contact with Palpatine, who is assuring them that everything is good and to keep this under wraps for now, but again, there would need to be some scene where the Kaminoan leadership is in contact with Palpatine, and there’s no indication that this is happening. It genuinely seems like the cloners have been doing this alone for ten years since they don’t even know that Syfo Dias was killed.

I think a lot of the issues here stem from the plot being too confusing and relying on information which is not immediately obvious to the viewer. So perhaps to simplify things, there should be many sides to the conflict, disentangled from Palpatine. If Dooku were a genuine idealist who acts on his own and uses the Dark Side as a means to enact political change, it would give the Separatists an actual identity. Remove the scene at the end of the film where he meets Palpatine. Next, make Jango Fett an independent actor who uses his infamy to contract with both sides of the conflict. This is where the Jedi’s admonition for Obi-wan to avoid assumptions pays off. Have a communication between Nute Gunray and Jango where he is ordered to kill Amidala and make it look like militarists in the Republic were behind it, and use his own discretion in creating this appearance. Jango decides to lead the Jedi to the cloning facility to achieve this end, then goes to his real master to report on the situation. He does not plan on being tracked, however. For the killing of Jango Fett, it would make sense that he is killed by something other than Mace. Perhaps he is killed by the giant beast in the pit, thwarting the Jedi’s interrogation.

So for the new scene, I propose Nute Gunray communicating with Zam Wessel after the assassination attempt on the landing platform and the introduction of the Jedi.

Nute: “Is she dead yet?”
Zam: “No. They used a decoy, and now the Jedi are involved.”
Nute: “The Republic cannot know of our involvement here. My master is sending a bounty hunter to deal with these Jedi…and to help complete your mission.”
Zam: “Is that a threat?”
Nute: “Think of it as motivation.”

This scene lets us know early on that the Separatists are behind the plot to kill Padme. We already know that Nute is in league with Palpatine, and so we assume that either Dooku or Palpatine provided Nute with Jango Fett. That this scene comes after the insistence of Palpatine for security primes the audience to expect Palpatine to be playing both sides. The inclusion of Jango as a later addition to the assassination plot makes sense of the two assassins angle, and Jango being the go-to man for both Nute and Palpatine gives the audience that conceptual bridge that would otherwise short-circuit the two secret armies plots. The fact that Jango hangs around Dooku is a red herring for those believing Padme’s assertion that Dooku is behind the assassination attempts. With the removal of the scene of Dooku and Palpatine at the end of the film, this implies that only Nute is directly under the control of Palpatine and this makes Palpatine’s plan more tricky since he cannot fully control Dooku, the leader of the Separatists.

Thanks Paja, but my suggestion was more of a joke.

But it actually might work.

“Do you think these cloners are involved in the plot to assassinate Senator Amidala?”
“Yes Master, there appears to be a motive.” (The ‘a’ can be a pause covered by static if necessary)
“Don’t assume anything, Obi-wan. Clear, your mind must be, if you are to uncover the real villains behind this plot.”

This way Obi-wan is perhaps jumping to conclusions while Yoda senses a deeper evil.

I just learned about it a few minutes ago while watching a review. It’s pretty neato.

Loved season one.