NeverarGreat

I’ve never had much interest in ‘purist’ edits of Tolkien, mainly because I believe adaptations are sometimes strongest when they deviate from source material, and there’s often a good reason for the deviance. In fact, since adaptations are entirely different mediums it’s really hard to compare them at all. For example, you bring up plated armor in the movies and show, but it’s notable that this is a visual detail which is the primary mode of conveying the story in visual media. And while Tolkien did often describe what characters were wearing in the story, he was a linguist first and foremost and this carries into the storytelling. The tale is felt through the names of the characters, their way of speaking, their poems and songs. The word choice of the stories themselves tends heavily toward words derived from Old English roots rather than Latinate words and phrases. This gives everything in the books the feeling of entering another world, an older world of myth and legend.

All this is to say that although the Jackson LOTR movies come close, nothing can really evoke Tolkien’s writing after it has been warped and transmuted onto a screen. It’s the same sort of thing that happened to the Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy show and movie. It’s the author’s writing style more than anything else that makes the work special, which only really comes through in the books and radio dramas.

Oh, and the latest episode was fine. It felt a bit weightless considering the magnitude of events, that is all.

Despite all my rage I am still not Nicholas Cage.

Hadn’t considered the hyperfuel plot, but you’re right 😃

I am going back and forth between two ideas. The first is in the crawl above, where the fleet’s origin is explained as the old Empire just having deep pockets. This attempts to explain why Canto Bight is in the film, as a further exploration of that theme.

The other idea I had was to use that space in the crawl to explain why the First Order was able to surprise the New Republic fleet, so I’d say that the First Order used its spy network to locate the fleet for the first attack. This would set up the theme of there possibly being a spy on the Raddus, which is later revealed to be a partial red-herring when the Hyperspace tracking plot comes into view.

Thanks!

While tinkering with the crawl for TFA, I thought it would be fun to do an update for TLJ, taking into account my current feelings about the edit. Although I have plenty of ideas for substantial edits and restructures, at this point I’m just thinking about how to make a crawl for the otherwise unchanged film, leaning into the idea of creating a new battle in the crawl in order to justify its existence:

The Republic is doomed.
Without the Jedi Knights,
victory for the First Order
is only a matter of time.

Wielding weapons forged
from the spoils of the
Empire, a deadly armada
of warships commanded by
Supreme Leader Snoke has
ravaged the unsuspecting
New Republic Starfleet
and hunted its survivors
across the stars.

Attempting to escape this
dark armada, the last of
the tattered fleet has fled
to General Leia Organa
and her Resistance base,
seeking a final spark of
hope amidst the galaxy’s
most desperate hour…

Of course there’s a lot I’d like to change about the movie, but this crawl does a lot without needing serious changes to the film. The only thing that may be odd is that the Resistance now should expect the First Order to follow them through hyperspace since they’ve done it even before the film opens, but it may be possible to shift some of Leia’s dialogue about following them through Hyperspace to the opening scene. Then again, that could create problems later, so it may be best to leave it.

I’ll be away for about ten days, so keep on truckin’, or whatever the hell you Star Wars people say 😉

It just makes me happy.

Just a little bump, not because I’ve made any more progress on the edit (sorry!) but because I’m doodling again with the crawl.

EPISODE VII
THE FORCE AWAKENS

It is a time of despair.
Luke Skywalker, striving
to restore the light of the
Jedi Order, has vanished.

In the wake of this crisis,
malevolent agents under
the command of the
IMPERIAL FIRST ORDER
have emerged from a
mysterious hidden base
to sow chaos and fear
throughout the grieving
New Republic.

Overwhelmed by rising
turmoil, members of the
bitterly divided Senate
have secretly called upon
a daring RESISTANCE
to find the last Jedi and
restore peace and justice
to the darkening stars…

The latest episode was the best one so far, IMO. Every plot moved forward with purpose and every character interaction approached something genuine.

Technically in the lore, Orcs are a variety of Elves, and some Orcs such as the Uruk-Hai are Orcs bred with Goblin-men, and all of these races can breed with humans. Elrond is only half-elven, for example. They’re all people, and technically all variations of humans due to that ability to interbreed.

As for how they are portrayed, yes there are plenty of Orcs of all skin colors in the movies and the show:

The point is that clearly you don’t care what skin color these people are regardless of where they come from, so my point stands. Why does skin tone homogeneity matter to the heroes but not to the villains?

Just watched the first three episodes.

It’s pretty good! As with most shows produced these days, it could really use some tightening up, but as streaming services seem to want to monopolize people’s time to their service over others it makes sense. It’s also nice that these three episodes could act as a self-contained story. I like the lack of fanservice and the focus on the street-level view of the Empire. It’s refreshing to see an aspect of the Empire’s power depicted as a dysfunctional bureaucracy driven by the whims of local officials more than the iron fist of an almighty Emperor.

This is precisely the sort of human-level viewpoint of the pre-ANH galaxy that Star Wars Rebels couldn’t capture in four seasons, shown here in the first three episodes.

All in all, something I’ll happily keep watching.

Yeah, I was trying to figure out how to tie the conflict over Naboo into something bigger without getting into the actual Palpatine takeover plot. It’s a shame that Valorum isn’t more prominent in the story since he’s really the last thing remaining between the villains and their goal, but bringing him in does feel like a bit of a red herring.

I think Eddie has a point that there needs to be some reason why Naboo is important, rather than just a small-scale victim of the Republic’s failures, but I don’t think anyone’s cracked that yet.

Or to take some of both crawls:

A golden age is ending. The Galactic Republic, under the faltering leadership of Chancellor Valorum, has been corrupted by agents of the Trade Federation.

With the Senate under their control, the greedy Trade Federation has surrounded the peaceful world of Naboo, home to Valorum’s last remaining ally, with a blockade of deadly warships.

Fearing for the safety of her people, the newly-elected Queen Amidala has requested that Valorum send his greatest ambassadors to restore peace and justice to her kingdom…

It is the end of a golden age. The Galactic Republic, once under the wise rule of the Senate, has been engulfed in corruption.

While their allies in congress turn a blind eye, the greedy Trade Federation seeks to exploit the wealthy planet of Naboo with a blockade of deadly warships.

Fearing for the safety of her people, the newly-elected Queen Amidala has requested the aid of the legendary Jedi Knights, hoping that they will restore peace and justice to her kingdom….

This is a wonderful crawl. But if I may…

A golden age has ended. The senate of the Galactic Republic, once a beacon of democracy, has fallen into a state of corruption and decay.

Seeking to profit from this corruption, the greedy Trade Federation has surrounded the prosperous world of Naboo with a blockade of deadly warships.

Fearing for the safety of her people, the newly-elected Queen Amidala has requested the aid of the legendary Jedi Knights, hoping that they will restore peace and justice to her kingdom….

LexX said:

poppasketti said:

And those that are nauseatingly railing against “wokeness” seem to have no issue with the actor other than that they are black. That’s not good enough. You seem distracted by a perceived agenda behind casting a non-white person, when really you should ask yourself “why not cast a non-white person?”

People with darker skin are affected by the Sun on Earth and the darker you are the closer you live to the Equator, that’s just how it has happened through evolution. How in the hell do you explain dark-skinned dwarfs who live inside mountains hardly at all seeing a Sun? They should be whiter than regular men. And don’t give any “it’s a fantasy world” answer… It is based on cultures on Earth.

So the many dark-skinned Orcs in in the books, movies, and show, who spent much of their lives in caves and avoided the sun whenever possible lived lives…closer to the equator basking in the sun? I can’t recall a single person ever being brought out of the story by this curiosity, and I don’t see any reason why other peoples of Middle Earth should be held to a different standard.

Unless, of course, you think that the Forces of Evil are the only ones expected to be multicultural in Tolkien’s world. Which is a…hell of a take.

Exactly.

Plan 9 From Outer Space

Sadly, this one falls in my estimation every time I see it. The middle drags so much that it can hardly be enjoyed like the campy awful brilliance of the rest of the film. Ah well, at least the ending always makes me laugh.

You know what bad movie is thoroughly entertaining all the way through?

Santa Claus Conquers the Martians

That’s one that should be on every holiday watch list, if only for the absolute bop of a theme song.

Vladius said:

dgraham414 said:

Not to add fuel to the fire and run away, but the LOTR trilogy ain’t 100% Tolkien faithful either. Faramir’s character was completely changed, entire chunks of the book were removed, and rolls were completely swapped out.

I wouldn’t be surprised that if those movies came out today the outcry would be massive. I can almost see the YouTube thumbnails photoshopping Greta Thunberg’s face over Arwen and Eowyen.

Conversely, if this show came out in 2008, I challenge the notion that the backlash would be the same.

The cry for Tolkien purism may be true to some, the PJ movies had that cry (although so quiet in the discourse) but it just seems like a shield to criticize diverse casting and female main characters.

If your claim is that it’s “not Tolkien’s story,” then you probably shouldn’t be watching any LOTR adaptation.

This is cope. Book purists were extremely critical of the movies at the time, including Christopher Tolkien himself. It’s in hindsight that a lot of people recognized that they did a good job being as faithful as they were, but there’s still plenty of people that don’t feel that way. Faramir is a big sticking point. So is Aragorn being unsure of himself as king.

Something that I’m surprised doesn’t get mentioned is how in the Extended version of ROTK, Aragorn literally decapitates an unarmed messenger. This is so far from the book’s portrayal of Aragorn as a noble king that it’s honestly shocking, and for me counts as character assassination. Consider the original after the Mouth of Sauron speaks:

"Aragorn said naught in answer, but he took the other’s eye and held it, and for a moment they strove thus; but soon, though Aragorn did not stir nor move hand to weapon, the other quailed and gave back as if menaced by a blow. “I am a herald and ambassador, and may not be assailed!” he cried.

This is the bearing of the ideal king. And so much more power in restraint!

My point is, the films are no untouchable masterpieces, and they’re allowed to take liberties, even ones I vehemently disagree with. I think it’s more productive to approach these adaptations and flights of fancy where they are and in the context of their time, just like the books themselves. And while it’s good and right to point out where they fall short, it’s also good to recognize where they strive to do justice to their material, and in many ways, especially with regards to production, the new series so far succeeds.

Dragonslayer (1981)

The bones of this movie are good. A simple violent fantasy story well-told. However, the soundtrack adds nothing at best and is downright distracting at worst. Someone needs to make a fanedit where the soundtrack is replaced with something more grand. Does that exist? It should.

Anyway, seeing young Emperor Palpatine was a fun treat, and the Tippet-animated dragon holds up in most shots even today.

There’s the ever more common perception that Star Wars has always been made primarily for children, and I think Filoni has a lot to do with crafting that perception. Dude has like two types of stories to tell (doing favors and found family), and he tells them over and over without any subtlety or complexity. It’s not that these stories are bad, but at a certain point it feels like Star Wars should be more than that.

It felt like a Tarantino movie if it was 50% more messy. It was fun.

Bit of a general trivia question here and not necessarily related to the show, but does anyone know why the series of Great Rings goes 1, 3, 7, 9? By this I mean, why is there no set of five rings of power?

From the Silmarillion, it is said that the Elves made many rings of power under the watchful eye of Sauron, and he himself made the One Ring in secret to rule the others. After he did this the elves hid away three of the rings of power for themselves, while Sauron eventually came to possess many others. From these he gave seven to the Dwarf Lords and nine to the Lords of Men.

So in my understanding the rings of power had varying abilities and all but the One Ring were Elven, presumably to be used by the Elves alone until their corruption. But this means that Tolkien could have had Sauron give any number of rings to those whom he wanted to bring to his side. Sauron could have given five rings to the Dwarf Lords and seven to men, or if it is important for there to be seven Dwarven Kingdoms, he could have given five to men and seven to the Dwarves.

Why this avoidance of the number five?

TheHutt70 said:

Just so you guys know this story has almost nothing to do with Tolkien’s books. I’m very shocked to see any support for this show here. I mean the original teaser on YouTube currently has 131K thumbs up compared to 1.9MILLION thumbs down. That is 15:1 ratio!!!
This show is nothing but woke racial/gender propaganda trash. I’ll stick with my books on this… 2020’s woke culture can’t take those away.

As someone who has read the Lord of the Rings many times and the Silmarillion thrice, I enjoy watching this show partly because I don’t know what will happen. Maybe it will be good, maybe it will be bad. I sure don’t know, and I’m pretty sure two million people who just watched a trailer don’t know either. However, I do know that anyone complaining about this show without first watching it should perhaps be reacquainted with the word prejudice : an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.

Good points. I see how those scenes have value, and they certainly do some lifting. But it does feel like a lot of them are doing the bare minimum for one small aspect of the story, whereas a strong scene can elevate the story in several ways at once. It’s the difference between meaty and fatty writing, for me, that is concerning. I’ve been burned too many times with shows that go totally to fat, but here’s to hoping that it isn’t the case this time.