NeverarGreat

RogueLeader said:

Honestly I think you’re better off spelling it out for the audience. It’s like, if I showed this to someone who wasn’t an Uber-fan, I’d want them to be able to tell me at the end of the movie, “Oh yeah, the throne had the power to keep the bad guy alive, so Rey destroyed it!” I might be wrong though!

It’s interesting, I came up with the throne artifact idea only after ignoring the larger trilogy, characters, and themes of Star Wars and just looked at the stuff in this movie, so it may actually be easier for a non-fan to get it than someone who is looking for a deeper character or thematic meaning in everything. In a lot of ways this film is really a throwback to old fantasy and monster movies where the only thing that matters is in revealing the Vampire’s weakness to light or destroying Sauron’s ring.

Kylo: Show me.
Palpatine/Vader: Join me.
Ben: Grandfather.
Anakin: Palpatine lies!
Palpatine: I can give you…
Anakin: I brought you together.
Palpatine: everything…
Anakin: A dyad in the Force.
Palpatine: The Throne…
Anakin: Balance.
Palpatine: Power.
Shots of dark Rey and Kylo.
Anakin: No!!

I like this! And since Palpatine knows the term, it makes sense that Anakin knows it too. Though I assume Palpatine can hear Anakin and is fighting against him for Kylo’s attention, so it is a bit odd that he would act surprised that Kylo and Rey are a Dyad at the end of the film.

Great thoughts! I was trying to figure out how to work the dyad angle in, and your idea makes sense.

That’s also a good idea about the Threepio line. I’ll admit I don’t have this movie nearly as memorized as the others.

I wonder if singling out the throne as an object of death-defeating power is too obvious here. Perhaps the line doesn’t need to be changed too terribly much:

“Exegol does not appear on any star chart, but legend describes it as the Eternal Throne of the Sith.”

Or perhaps “…legend describes it as the Throne of the Sith Eternal”, since that is actually the name of their sect.

This hopefully gets across that the power of the place is in the throne while not spelling it out completely. It also gives some idea of what the power does, namely, defeat death.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

I for one think the only hole that needs patching in TLJ is Holdo. There is a clearly ADR dialog spoken when she says “I’ve dealt with plenty of trigger happy flyboys like you.”

The idea would be to replace that with something like “But there could be a First Order informant on board.”

So the whole thing would go as follows: “Of course you do. I understand. But there could be a First Order informant on board. You’re impulsive, dangerous, and the last thing we need right now. So stick to your post, and follow your orders.”

Changing that line so extensively would probably clash with the rest of the scene, though.

“I just want to know what’s going on.”
“Of course you do. I understand. But what I want is a captain I can trust. You’re impulsive…dangerous…and the last thing we need right now.”

This keeps the suggestion that there may be those among the crew that are less than trustworty, while focusing the conversation on the real sticking point between these two characters. It’s important that we don’t make Holdo so transparent in her reasoning that we think Poe is the unreasonable one…there still needs to be a communication breakdown between them.

I like your latest vision, though I do think the saber breaking is a bit odd. I’ve found in general, the simpler the better with visions.

NFBisms said:

I love Hayden Christensen

Tell him, not us.

Watching it again, I don’t even think that we would need to paint out any lightning. He could keep getting hit as long as we see the throne get a direct hit or two as well. It is after all not a Star Wars trilogy without Palpatine getting a facefull of his own lightning 😉

Huh, didn’t even notice that he wasn’t zapping her. Where did that lightning come from?!

But for this idea, I imagine that Rey advances with the two sabers against Palpatine. Some of her lightning begins to strike his head and blinds him, and then she does one push with them which sends the lightning over his head to hit the throne. Cut to the wide shot and the throne lighting up with this power. Cut to the shot of Palpatine’s head disintegrating in time with the throne, and then Rey sends that final push of lightning which pushes right through the disintegrating Palpatine and hits the throne full-on.

Maybe three shots would need to be altered, tops. The only reordered shot would be to put the wide shot of the throne right after her first push, before Palpy starts to really go to pieces.

DominicCobb said:

NeverarGreat said:

Apropos of nothing, but:

STAR WARS EPISODE IX

THRONE OF THE SITH

Consider:

Kylo tracks down a Sith Wayfinder on Mustafar, Darth Vader’s lair.

Rey has frightening visions during training, visions of herself on a dark throne.

The second Wayfinder is located in the Emperor’s throne room on the Death Star.

Both Snoke and Palpatine reborn originated on Exegol, brought to life through ‘Secrets only the Sith knew’.

Palpatine performs his most powerful acts in the vicinity of the throne on Exegol, and his most powerful act while sitting upon the throne.

Conclusion: The Throne in Exegol is the Sith’s source of power and the secret to their resurrection. The Wayfarers are a way of extending that power to the lairs of the two Sith that exist in the galaxy at any one time.

Suggested Edits:

• Give more emphasis to Rey’s vision of the Exegol throne.

• When Rey calls upon the Jedi for the final time, after the Jedi give their generic support, Yoda’s voice gives her a specific instruction: “A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense. Knowledge…and defense.”

• When Rey turns over after hearing these voices, her hand strikes the ground as if touching this place for the first time. Just like when she touched Anakin’s lightsaber, she sees visions in her mind. She sees the Exegol throne, the Wayfarers, the Death Star throne, and, from somewhere, the image of Vader’s castle and his throne (perhaps taken from the Kenobi show). The answer comes to her mind: “The Throne.” The voice of Luke responds. “Yes, Rey. You have everything you need.”

• When Rey stands and confronts Palpatine, she is able to use the first saber to block his Force lightning, but when she uses the second saber, it is to direct some of the lightning in another direction. It flies over Palpatine’s head and strikes the throne, impacting it with tremendous force. The stone seat erupts with power and is destroyed, along with Palpatine and the entire fortress around them.

Benefits:

• It gives a reason for the Macguffin-heavy scavenger hunt over the course of the film, setting up these places of power to emphasize that they are important for understanding this revelation.

• It is more reasonable for Rey to use two sabers at the end, to protect herself as well as direct lightning elsewhere.

• It suggests that the Exegol throne is a powerful Sith artifact capable of returning Sith to life, and it also suggests that Snoke was another ancient Sith spirit brought back to life by this artifact.

• It reveals the difference between Jedi and Sith, and shows that Rey is a Jedi by her actions of thinking things through and protecting herself rather than using power to defeat her enemy. Furthermore, it is a symbolic rejection of the power that Palpatine represents.

• Finally, it explains why this defeat of the Sith is more final than any prior defeat, giving this story far more closure.

So what do you think?

This is a great idea although I wonder if it’s one of those situations where it would have been better if they had just written it that way - worried about adding yet another object of significance. But I can see the argument that it would actually focus things. Wonder how this would all be accomplished.

Well the major change would be a vision scene at the end like the ones Rey has from time to time throughout the ST, so it shouldn’t feel too out of place. The other edit would be some sort of effects shot of the throne getting hit by Force lightning, which probably deserves at least an insert shot. For this edit, you could add some AI voices throughout the film hinting at the final reveal, but it’s not necessary and everything could come from preexisting dialogue.

As for this idea cluttering an already cluttered movie with more stuff, I feel you and would definitely prefer a character-focused solution rather than an object-focused one, but as you say it may explain the preponderance of significant objects and turn it into a theme with a satisfying payoff instead of a storytelling crutch.

JEDIT: I also think this idea is stronger without the visible Jedi Force ghosts helping Rey, since this battle isn’t about power, light or dark. Rey is capable of accomplishing this on her own because she knows what needs to be done.

Apropos of nothing, but:

STAR WARS EPISODE IX

THRONE OF THE SITH

Consider:

Kylo tracks down a Sith Wayfinder on Mustafar, Darth Vader’s lair.

Rey has frightening visions during training, visions of herself on a dark throne.

The second Wayfinder is located in the Emperor’s throne room on the Death Star.

Both Snoke and Palpatine reborn originated on Exegol, brought to life through ‘Secrets only the Sith knew’.

Palpatine performs his most powerful acts in the vicinity of the throne on Exegol, and his most powerful act while sitting upon the throne.

Conclusion: The Throne in Exegol is the Sith’s source of power and the secret to their resurrection. The Wayfarers are a way of extending that power to the lairs of the two Sith that exist in the galaxy at any one time.

Suggested Edits:

• Give more emphasis to Rey’s vision of the Exegol throne.

• When Rey calls upon the Jedi for the final time, after the Jedi give their generic support, Yoda’s voice gives her a specific instruction: “A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense. Knowledge…and defense.”

• When Rey turns over after hearing these voices, her hand strikes the ground as if touching this place for the first time. Just like when she touched Anakin’s lightsaber, she sees visions in her mind. She sees the Exegol throne, the Wayfarers, the Death Star throne, and, from somewhere, the image of Vader’s castle and his throne (perhaps taken from the Kenobi show). The answer comes to her mind: “The Throne.” The voice of Luke responds. “Yes, Rey. You have everything you need.”

• When Rey stands and confronts Palpatine, she is able to use the first saber to block his Force lightning, but when she uses the second saber, it is to direct some of the lightning in another direction. It flies over Palpatine’s head and strikes the throne, impacting it with tremendous force. The stone seat erupts with power and is destroyed, along with Palpatine and the entire fortress around them.

Benefits:

• It gives a reason for the Macguffin-heavy scavenger hunt over the course of the film, setting up these places of power to emphasize that they are important for understanding this revelation.

• It is more reasonable for Rey to use two sabers at the end, to protect herself as well as direct lightning elsewhere.

• It suggests that the Exegol throne is a powerful Sith artifact capable of returning Sith to life, and it also suggests that Snoke was another ancient Sith spirit brought back to life by this artifact.

• It reveals the difference between Jedi and Sith, and shows that Rey is a Jedi by her actions of thinking things through and protecting herself rather than using power to defeat her enemy. Furthermore, it is a symbolic rejection of the power that Palpatine represents.

• Finally, it explains why this defeat of the Sith is more final than any prior defeat, giving this story far more closure.

So what do you think?

Fair enough. It’s certainly a better idea than anything in the actual movie 😉

That’s a fair point, but what good will control do if you’re a Sith and you’ve made an enemy out of everyone you cared about?

That’s what I keep coming back to. The audience knows that Rey will never join the Dark Side, just as they knew that Luke wouldn’t join the Dark Side in ROTJ. The Rise of Skywalker apes that ROTJ scene to such an extent that it inherits all of that scene’s problems, without any of the iconic aspects.

Hal 9000 said:

This is all straying pretty far from the story as we have it, and I’d rather keep Ascendant pretty close to what we have and not introduce sweeping changes to Palpatine’s plan. I’m not convinced introducing the idea that he wanted to have them fight in order to claim the victor enhances anything here.

Fair enough. Though I think you mean Palpatine’s Plans. He’s got like a good half dozen. 😉

The thing is, Rey has never wanted power, which is the issue with this entire ending. There’s nothing that Palpatine can give her that she genuinely wants, other than a sense of belonging and family, so with the revelation about him as her grandfather, she has just as much reason to want him alive as she does to kill him.

Rey doesn’t want power, she doesn’t want to rule the galaxy.

She wants to be a Jedi and gain a family, so unless Palpatine’s plan can give her that he has no angle.

So hang on a sec, here’s an idea: What if Palpatine reveals the reason that Rey can’t connect with the Jedi of the past is because he personally is blocking that connection?

“Do you know why the Jedi reject you? Because of me.”

“Kill me, and the spirit of the Jedi shall pass into you.”

We know he’s lying about that of course, but at least he’s offering her something she would genuinely want. And when she is finally able to call the Jedi to her in her final moment, it is the culmination of Rey rejecting Palpatine’s lie.

“I never wanted you dead…I wanted you strong…Empress Palpatine.”

Honestly, just cut out the dialogue about him possessing her as a Sith spirit, which genuinely screws up his plan and makes no sense to tell her from a tactical perspective.

“She will strike me down…as a Sith.”

RogueLeader said:

I’m sensing a pattern with me spending a lot of energy on blink and you’ll miss it shots.

If I need to make edits I can but here is the high res clip for now.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VorirravXQCUNYadlzaa-K9y9ZpMhRhc/view?usp=drive_link

Marvelous work! I salute you.

JEDIT: If I had a nitpick, I’d say that the dark figure is slightly too low on the page, leading to the horizontal energy link being slightly skewed downward. The only reason I mention it is because the viewer’s eye may not be drawn to the bottom of the screen quickly enough to absorb the image in this brief shot, so anything that could help bring the image higher in the frame would be helpful.

Note in my mockup the dark figure is quite a bit larger, due to the perspective:

Of course, the perspective is probably a bit too extreme here, and I like how your version is less distorted.

DZ-330 said:

RogueLeader said:

I honestly shut Star Wars edits mostly out of my mind when this stuff first started popping up because the possibilities were just too overwhelming.

For the sake of sanity… I think it would be wise for faneditors with pre-existing edits to ONLY revisit ideas that were like 98% completed towards what they wanted it to be, to help give it that extra 2% to complete their vision. And for any new edits, to only rely on AI voices to help implement a greater change elsewhere.

Otherwise, it’ll just be a crapshow where half a movie will be AI dialogue and it will lose the DNA that made it unique.

Fully agreed.

Of course, TROS has always been a special case.

I noticed that as well. But the second scene doesn’t really give a good look at the top part of the page, only the bottom part which is dominated by the Wayfinder illustration. I also noticed that the little page of shapes is not really folded in the second scene and looks rather different, which is a continuity issue.

Basically, I’m happy imagining that this is a similar page or a partial copy of another, which would happen in an old tome cobbled together over the centuries.

JEDIT: what Jar Jar said 😃

Done 😃

DZ-330 said:

NeverarGreat said:

A mockup of the Force Healing illustration:

That looks incredible! I do wonder if there can be some “>” arrows added on the line to better illustrate the person with his hand on the other is actually sending energy over, not draining it.

Done!

A mockup of the Force Healing illustration:

What does everyone think?

One issue: I don’t actually have access to After Effects right now, which is what I’d use to do the tracking and finish the shot. I could potentially get access again, but if someone else wants to take a stab at tracking the image, that would be fantastic.

JEDIT: Here’s the folder with the transparent PNG files.
https://mega.nz/folder/jN921R5I#OVrlHlcrwrG198mE2PvsgQ

Good ideas!

I do think that her learning the ability from the Jedi Texts makes sense, and gives the texts more relevance to the story. However, I think it’s more powerful if an ability comes from a character rather than an object, since it is able to say so much more about that character, and Leia needs all of the help she can get here.

But yes, a merging of the ideas gives us the best of both worlds.

If someone provides a high-quality image of the page in the texts, I can try my hand at drawing a replacement.

I don’t think that Leia knowing this necessarily means that it’s ‘commonly known’, since she could have discovered it on her own over her lifetime.

Alternately, Rey could say “Leia would have done the same”, which leaves vague where Rey got that power but makes clear that Leia’s guidance has given Rey the mindset that she should seek self-sacrifical avenues before killing her opponents outright.

Also, we’d only have to change the mouth movements for one word rather than an entire line.

Since we’ve just been talking about how Leia was such a good potential Jedi and how she wanted to use nonviolence, would it make sense that Leia had discovered this Force Healing power and taught it to Rey?

Rey: It’s in pain. I can sense it.
(Rey hands her saber to Finn)
Rey: It doesn’t want to hurt us.
(Rey heals the snake)
BB-8: Questioning beep?
Rey: I just transferred a bit of life. Force energy from me to him.
BB-8: Beep?
Rey: Leia taught me that.

This makes her healing Ben with this power a lot more meaningful since it comes right from his mother, and may imply that Leia is giving the last of her life energy to aid Rey in healing Ben.

Yeah, somehow mentioning Leia’s mother is probably the best way to allude to how she wishes to serve the galaxy.

Yes, but we don’t get that reveal of Leia defeating Luke until after that line. Granted the saber colors, but they could have switched for the scene or people could simply not immediately match the sabers with their owners, as I didn’t when first casually watching the scene.

The point is that the narration should emphasize what’s being shown, not create potential confusion.