Unusual Sequel Trilogy Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 102

Simulon will allow us to replace Snoke and Palpatine with Plagueis…complete with convincing shadows

Continuing a convo from the Ascendant thread (though this would be relevant for Rey Nobody as well)

NeverarGreat said:

The thing is, Rey has never wanted power, which is the issue with this entire ending. There’s nothing that Palpatine can give her that she genuinely wants, other than a sense of belonging and family, so with the revelation about him as her grandfather, she has just as much reason to want him alive as she does to kill him.

Rey doesn’t want power, she doesn’t want to rule the galaxy.

She wants to be a Jedi and gain a family, so unless Palpatine’s plan can give her that he has no angle.

So hang on a sec, here’s an idea: What if Palpatine reveals the reason that Rey can’t connect with the Jedi of the past is because he personally is blocking that connection?

“Do you know why the Jedi reject you? Because of me.”

“Kill me, and the spirit of the Jedi shall pass into you.”

We know he’s lying about that of course, but at least he’s offering her something she would genuinely want. And when she is finally able to call the Jedi to her in her final moment, it is the culmination of Rey rejecting Palpatine’s lie.

The angle I’m going for right now is control. Rey has this raw power, but she really doesn’t have any control over it. She hurts BB-8 during her training, she almost kills Chewbacca, she Force-pushes Finn on the Death Star, and she almost kills Kylo/Ben. Her raw, uncontrollable power is a threat to her belonging and family, which ties into her sense of self-worth. She fears she isn’t good enough for a family, that she might just hurt the ones she cares about. She might lose her family if she joined the Sith, but they might die if she doesn’t, or get hurt by her if she can’t learn to control her powers. She feels trapped, and doesn’t know what to do.

Basically, “if you can’t control the dark side, the dark side will control you.” That’s the argument the villains are making. Palpatine and Kylo Ren both offer her ways to do so. But there’s a catch with both.

Not saying it is the best approach ever, but I think it at least gives more of a plausible reason Rey might be even a little tempted to join either of them.

Most of this idea would be framed by Kylo in new dialogue, but I think everything else that already exists would support it well.

As far as the lie goes, if she joins the Sith they at least won’t be dead, and she won’t hurt them because she’ll be in control of her powers. That’s a start. And as long as they’re alive, maybe she can convince them that this is the only way.

In that way it is similar to Anakin in ROTS. He knows the Sith are problematic, but he hopes he can convince Padmé it is the only way they can be together, and make things the way they want them to be.

RogueLeader said:

Continuing a convo from the Ascendant thread (though this would be relevant for Rey Nobody as well)

NeverarGreat said:

The thing is, Rey has never wanted power, which is the issue with this entire ending. There’s nothing that Palpatine can give her that she genuinely wants, other than a sense of belonging and family, so with the revelation about him as her grandfather, she has just as much reason to want him alive as she does to kill him.

Rey doesn’t want power, she doesn’t want to rule the galaxy.

She wants to be a Jedi and gain a family, so unless Palpatine’s plan can give her that he has no angle.

So hang on a sec, here’s an idea: What if Palpatine reveals the reason that Rey can’t connect with the Jedi of the past is because he personally is blocking that connection?

“Do you know why the Jedi reject you? Because of me.”

“Kill me, and the spirit of the Jedi shall pass into you.”

We know he’s lying about that of course, but at least he’s offering her something she would genuinely want. And when she is finally able to call the Jedi to her in her final moment, it is the culmination of Rey rejecting Palpatine’s lie.

The angle I’m going for right now is control. Rey has this raw power, but she really doesn’t have any control over it. She hurts BB-8 during her training, she almost kills Chewbacca, she Force-pushes Finn on the Death Star, and she almost kills Kylo/Ben. Her raw, uncontrollable power is a threat to her belonging and family, which ties into her sense of self-worth. She fears she isn’t good enough for a family, that she might just hurt the ones she cares about. She might lose her family if she joined the Sith, but they might die if she doesn’t, or get hurt by her if she can’t learn to control her powers. She feels trapped, and doesn’t know what to do.

Basically, “if you can’t control the dark side, the dark side will control you.” That’s the argument the villains are making. Palpatine and Kylo Ren both offer her ways to do so. But there’s a catch with both.

Not saying it is the best approach ever, but I think it at least gives more of a plausible reason Rey might be even a little tempted to join either of them.

Most of this idea would be framed by Kylo in new dialogue, but I think everything else that already exists would support it well.

I dig it. So you have AI line ideas for this?

DominicCobb said:

RogueLeader said:

Continuing a convo from the Ascendant thread (though this would be relevant for Rey Nobody as well)

NeverarGreat said:

The thing is, Rey has never wanted power, which is the issue with this entire ending. There’s nothing that Palpatine can give her that she genuinely wants, other than a sense of belonging and family, so with the revelation about him as her grandfather, she has just as much reason to want him alive as she does to kill him.

Rey doesn’t want power, she doesn’t want to rule the galaxy.

She wants to be a Jedi and gain a family, so unless Palpatine’s plan can give her that he has no angle.

So hang on a sec, here’s an idea: What if Palpatine reveals the reason that Rey can’t connect with the Jedi of the past is because he personally is blocking that connection?

“Do you know why the Jedi reject you? Because of me.”

“Kill me, and the spirit of the Jedi shall pass into you.”

We know he’s lying about that of course, but at least he’s offering her something she would genuinely want. And when she is finally able to call the Jedi to her in her final moment, it is the culmination of Rey rejecting Palpatine’s lie.

The angle I’m going for right now is control. Rey has this raw power, but she really doesn’t have any control over it. She hurts BB-8 during her training, she almost kills Chewbacca, she Force-pushes Finn on the Death Star, and she almost kills Kylo/Ben. Her raw, uncontrollable power is a threat to her belonging and family, which ties into her sense of self-worth. She fears she isn’t good enough for a family, that she might just hurt the ones she cares about. She might lose her family if she joined the Sith, but they might die if she doesn’t, or get hurt by her if she can’t learn to control her powers. She feels trapped, and doesn’t know what to do.

Basically, “if you can’t control the dark side, the dark side will control you.” That’s the argument the villains are making. Palpatine and Kylo Ren both offer her ways to do so. But there’s a catch with both.

Not saying it is the best approach ever, but I think it at least gives more of a plausible reason Rey might be even a little tempted to join either of them.

Most of this idea would be framed by Kylo in new dialogue, but I think everything else that already exists would support it well.

I dig it. So you have AI line ideas for this?

I actually have each conversation mapped out, with a few to several options for certain lines. 😅 Honestly had avoided thinking about it the past year or two, but this voice AI stuff kind of sparked my brain again. I think it needs some adjustments, to make it all focused, but it feels closer than it has ever been before. At least my version of it.

I could share it here and maybe it could be hammered out.

And I like that idea, Nev, that the throne/temple itself is a significant nexus in the dark side. And the Sith made the throne to channel its power. It’d explain why he is tied to that place. Maybe that would explain all the damn lightning coming from the ground!
Even if it was explicitly spelled out, I could imagine a few ways it could be implied as much.

It does seem like “taking the throne” is pretty significant. It feels like a metaphorical gesture, but this could imply that maybe it isn’t.

NeverarGreat said:

• When Rey calls upon the Jedi for the final time, after the Jedi give their generic support…”

This is something I am wanting to address too.

NeverarGreat said:

Apropos of nothing, but:

STAR WARS EPISODE IX

THRONE OF THE SITH

Consider:

Kylo tracks down a Sith Wayfinder on Mustafar, Darth Vader’s lair.

Rey has frightening visions during training, visions of herself on a dark throne.

The second Wayfinder is located in the Emperor’s throne room on the Death Star.

Both Snoke and Palpatine reborn originated on Exegol, brought to life through ‘Secrets only the Sith knew’.

Palpatine performs his most powerful acts in the vicinity of the throne on Exegol, and his most powerful act while sitting upon the throne.

Conclusion: The Throne in Exegol is the Sith’s source of power and the secret to their resurrection. The Wayfarers are a way of extending that power to the lairs of the two Sith that exist in the galaxy at any one time.

Suggested Edits:

• Give more emphasis to Rey’s vision of the Exegol throne.

• When Rey calls upon the Jedi for the final time, after the Jedi give their generic support, Yoda’s voice gives her a specific instruction: “A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense. Knowledge…and defense.”

• When Rey turns over after hearing these voices, her hand strikes the ground as if touching this place for the first time. Just like when she touched Anakin’s lightsaber, she sees visions in her mind. She sees the Exegol throne, the Wayfarers, the Death Star throne, and, from somewhere, the image of Vader’s castle and his throne (perhaps taken from the Kenobi show). The answer comes to her mind: “The Throne.” The voice of Luke responds. “Yes, Rey. You have everything you need.”

• When Rey stands and confronts Palpatine, she is able to use the first saber to block his Force lightning, but when she uses the second saber, it is to direct some of the lightning in another direction. It flies over Palpatine’s head and strikes the throne, impacting it with tremendous force. The stone seat erupts with power and is destroyed, along with Palpatine and the entire fortress around them.

Benefits:

• It gives a reason for the Macguffin-heavy scavenger hunt over the course of the film, setting up these places of power to emphasize that they are important for understanding this revelation.

• It is more reasonable for Rey to use two sabers at the end, to protect herself as well as direct lightning elsewhere.

• It suggests that the Exegol throne is a powerful Sith artifact capable of returning Sith to life, and it also suggests that Snoke was another ancient Sith spirit brought back to life by this artifact.

• It reveals the difference between Jedi and Sith, and shows that Rey is a Jedi by her actions of thinking things through and protecting herself rather than using power to defeat her enemy. Furthermore, it is a symbolic rejection of the power that Palpatine represents.

• Finally, it explains why this defeat of the Sith is more final than any prior defeat, giving this story far more closure.

So what do you think?

This is a great idea although I wonder if it’s one of those situations where it would have been better if they had just written it that way - worried about adding yet another object of significance. But I can see the argument that it would actually focus things. Wonder how this would all be accomplished.

RogueLeader said:

DominicCobb said:

RogueLeader said:

Continuing a convo from the Ascendant thread (though this would be relevant for Rey Nobody as well)

NeverarGreat said:

The thing is, Rey has never wanted power, which is the issue with this entire ending. There’s nothing that Palpatine can give her that she genuinely wants, other than a sense of belonging and family, so with the revelation about him as her grandfather, she has just as much reason to want him alive as she does to kill him.

Rey doesn’t want power, she doesn’t want to rule the galaxy.

She wants to be a Jedi and gain a family, so unless Palpatine’s plan can give her that he has no angle.

So hang on a sec, here’s an idea: What if Palpatine reveals the reason that Rey can’t connect with the Jedi of the past is because he personally is blocking that connection?

“Do you know why the Jedi reject you? Because of me.”

“Kill me, and the spirit of the Jedi shall pass into you.”

We know he’s lying about that of course, but at least he’s offering her something she would genuinely want. And when she is finally able to call the Jedi to her in her final moment, it is the culmination of Rey rejecting Palpatine’s lie.

The angle I’m going for right now is control. Rey has this raw power, but she really doesn’t have any control over it. She hurts BB-8 during her training, she almost kills Chewbacca, she Force-pushes Finn on the Death Star, and she almost kills Kylo/Ben. Her raw, uncontrollable power is a threat to her belonging and family, which ties into her sense of self-worth. She fears she isn’t good enough for a family, that she might just hurt the ones she cares about. She might lose her family if she joined the Sith, but they might die if she doesn’t, or get hurt by her if she can’t learn to control her powers. She feels trapped, and doesn’t know what to do.

Basically, “if you can’t control the dark side, the dark side will control you.” That’s the argument the villains are making. Palpatine and Kylo Ren both offer her ways to do so. But there’s a catch with both.

Not saying it is the best approach ever, but I think it at least gives more of a plausible reason Rey might be even a little tempted to join either of them.

Most of this idea would be framed by Kylo in new dialogue, but I think everything else that already exists would support it well.

I dig it. So you have AI line ideas for this?

I actually have each conversation mapped out, with a few to several options for certain lines. 😅 Honestly had avoided thinking about it the past year or two, but this voice AI stuff kind of sparked my brain again. I think it needs some adjustments, to make it all focused, but it feels closer than it has ever been before. At least my version of it.

I could share it here and maybe it could be hammered out.

Please do! I’m struggling to recapture all the blue sky thoughts I’ve had over the past few years that I never wrote down because I never thought they’d be feasible.

NeverarGreat said:

Apropos of nothing, but:

STAR WARS EPISODE IX

THRONE OF THE SITH

Consider:

Kylo tracks down a Sith Wayfinder on Mustafar, Darth Vader’s lair.

Rey has frightening visions during training, visions of herself on a dark throne.

The second Wayfinder is located in the Emperor’s throne room on the Death Star.

Both Snoke and Palpatine reborn originated on Exegol, brought to life through ‘Secrets only the Sith knew’.

Palpatine performs his most powerful acts in the vicinity of the throne on Exegol, and his most powerful act while sitting upon the throne.

Conclusion: The Throne in Exegol is the Sith’s source of power and the secret to their resurrection. The Wayfarers are a way of extending that power to the lairs of the two Sith that exist in the galaxy at any one time.

Suggested Edits:

• Give more emphasis to Rey’s vision of the Exegol throne.

• When Rey calls upon the Jedi for the final time, after the Jedi give their generic support, Yoda’s voice gives her a specific instruction: “A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense. Knowledge…and defense.”

• When Rey turns over after hearing these voices, her hand strikes the ground as if touching this place for the first time. Just like when she touched Anakin’s lightsaber, she sees visions in her mind. She sees the Exegol throne, the Wayfarers, the Death Star throne, and, from somewhere, the image of Vader’s castle and his throne (perhaps taken from the Kenobi show). The answer comes to her mind: “The Throne.” The voice of Luke responds. “Yes, Rey. You have everything you need.”

• When Rey stands and confronts Palpatine, she is able to use the first saber to block his Force lightning, but when she uses the second saber, it is to direct some of the lightning in another direction. It flies over Palpatine’s head and strikes the throne, impacting it with tremendous force. The stone seat erupts with power and is destroyed, along with Palpatine and the entire fortress around them.

Benefits:

• It gives a reason for the Macguffin-heavy scavenger hunt over the course of the film, setting up these places of power to emphasize that they are important for understanding this revelation.

• It is more reasonable for Rey to use two sabers at the end, to protect herself as well as direct lightning elsewhere.

• It suggests that the Exegol throne is a powerful Sith artifact capable of returning Sith to life, and it also suggests that Snoke was another ancient Sith spirit brought back to life by this artifact.

• It reveals the difference between Jedi and Sith, and shows that Rey is a Jedi by her actions of thinking things through and protecting herself rather than using power to defeat her enemy. Furthermore, it is a symbolic rejection of the power that Palpatine represents.

• Finally, it explains why this defeat of the Sith is more final than any prior defeat, giving this story far more closure.

So what do you think?

I LOVE THIS.

At the very least, this whole idea made me realize that another nice VFX change would be for Palpatine to have Lightning emanating from his hands the entire time right up until he dies, instead of stopping toward the end. It just makes it feel a little more like Rey killing him, rather than Rey just deflecting Palpatine’s Lightning back at him while defending herself.

That’s kind of how I was picturing it. You could paint out the lightning directly hit Palpatine from Rey’s sabers, and make it seem like what is happening to the throne is happening to him.

Nev, was thinking about your idea, and I had this thought.

During the Resistance briefing, you could change C-3PO’s line from this:
Exegol does not appear on any star chart, but Legend describes it as the hidden world of the Sith.

To this:
A lost Sith world. Legend says the Throne of Exegol held the power over death itself.

This actually would be the perfect place to put this type of exposition. This is the scene where we get the Palpatine exposition dump, with our characters speculating (and us wondering) on how he’s alive.

With this line, we are told why this place is important, and what’s special about this place that allowed Palpatine to survive. Also, it is the antithesis of the Dyad in the Force. The Dyad has the power of life itself, the Throne has the power of death. Only one person can sit on the throne, representing selfishness. But the Dyad is two that are one, representing selflessness. The Dyad is a human/spiritual connection, the Throne is a material/physical connection. Love vs Power.

So I wouldn’t interpret Palpatine as “alive” until he absorbs the dyad energy. Up until then, he is just “undead”. A Sith lich.

It would work with the theatrical since the throne is destroyed in the explosion, but all you would need to do at the end is just add more lightning VFX that go past/through Palpatine and hit the throne. And make sure it is depicted so Palpatine is shooting lightning the whole time up until the throne is destroyed, so all Rey is doing is deflecting/redirecting it.

And if you wanted to use Jedi voices to remind the audience, it could be something simple like, “The throne, Rey.” You could also make the Jedi voices give just random pieces of vague Jedi wisdom, like Yoda’s knowledge and defense line, but allows us to connect the dots that adds up to this conclusion. I like the idea of this moment being generally inspiring and carry a more personal character/story-driven message, but maybe it can be framed in a way that kills two birds with one stone.

Honestly I think this would be a really satisfying way to address how Palpatine won’t just come back again. And even better, Rey uses her wisdom to realize how she can defeat Palpatine without just straight up killing him up, which it currently seems like she does.

Honestly I think you’re better off spelling it out for the audience. It’s like, if I showed this to someone who wasn’t an Uber-fan, I’d want them to be able to tell me at the end of the movie, “Oh yeah, the throne had the power to keep the bad guy alive, so Rey destroyed it!” I might be wrong though!

Regarding the dyad, it has always bugged me that the dyad concept isn’t even mentioned until halfway through the movie, when Kylo calls them that. And what that means isn’t even explained until Palpatine starts draining their power at the end of the movie.

Right now, my idea is to set it up in the vision when Kylo touches Vader’s helmet. For a more normal approach, you could just add the line when Palpatine says it with some “dyad” imagery perhaps.

I have had this plan to use the Jedi whispers Rey hears on Ahch-To in the other movies. Like in TFA, when Rey is being drawn to the saber, and maybe subtly while Rey and Kylo are in each other’s heads during the interrogation. Finally, we’d hear the whispers when Rey is saying “be with me” at the end of the film, and they morph into the voices of the Jedi. On top of that, I wanted to include the voice of Anakin briefly whispering “Rey” when she being called to the lightsaber and the Jedi tree.

In this version I have planned, Kylo connects with Vader’s helmet again after meeting Palpatine to try and get some answers. Because at this point he knows Palpatine was using the helmet to manipulate him. But he wants to try and gain insight if he can, and he does, a little bit. This time, even though Palpatine’s influence is strong, Anakin gets through slightly.

Kylo: Show me.
Palpatine/Vader: Join me.
Ben: Grandfather.
Anakin: Palpatine lies!
Palpatine: I can give you…
Anakin: I brought you together.
Palpatine: everything…
Anakin: A dyad in the Force.
Palpatine: The Throne…
Anakin: Balance.
Palpatine: Power.
Shots of dark Rey and Kylo.
Anakin: No!!

I still want it to be stream of consciousness and vague, but basically, we see a Force battle in Kylo’s mind between Anakin and Palpatine. Anakin manages to get some info to Kylo, don’t trust Palpatine, him and Rey are a dyad. But Palpatine makes him misinterpret what Anakin is trying to say.

It doesn’t have to be Anakin, or he could say, “We brought you together” in a collective Force sense, but these things would be a way to show how Anakin’s influence has actually been countering Palpatine’s influence all this time. And, it actually shows where Kylo even heard the term “dyad in the Force”.

I really like that idea, RL. In canon, we literally have zero clue how Kylo figured out about the dyad. And it wouldn’t be hard to get a convincing AI Anakin voice through our new method.

Thanks! And yeah, that’s what I was thinking too.

With all that throne stuff in mind, it does make me think Palpatine and Rey’s dialogue could go a little different in that final interaction. To enhance that selfish/selfless individual/collective theme, maybe they could say:

Palpatine: I am the Sith!
Rey: And I, I’m all the Jedi.

I know Ascendant changed that, but it would make sense in this context. I also think you could shorten this Palpatine line to just:
Kill me, and my spirit will pass into you.

I think “all the Sith” stuff just muddies the waters, and it would be better Palpatine didn’t refer to himself as being a part of anything but himself.