NFBisms

That would actually be really cool! I’d be down to use it.

I was just going for anything better to me personally than the original, but your work is legitimately good. I just got so tired of this movie that changing its entire look as drastically as I possibly could made it more bearable to edit. But I realize not everyone might not feel the way someone watching it over and over again might. I really like your regrade as a alternative to mine. Because it’s actually good.

Thanks, and you’re definitely getting credit if I end up using it. It’s not like this edit is one that needed something like this, but I’m glad it’ll be one that ends up having it.

Anyway, it might be a little bit longer now, but it’s coming.

Holy shit guys, I think I’m pretty ready to finish and finalize! I just need to render it out, make a new cutlist accurate to what it is now, upload it, and I can finally never watch a frame of this movie again!

(jk I will fix any technical issues anyone finds. which there will be. so many)

But this final version is actually very different from what people previewed earlier this year. I’ve made a ton of changes since then that I hope make my RotS more unique than other fan edits. I wasn’t happy with releasing it as it was back in May for a lot of reasons, one of them being because I felt like it wasn’t different enough an edit from Hal’s or others to warrant putting out there. I didn’t feel like every ambition I had for the edit could be realized. And while I still feel like I wasn’t able to really, this is probably the closest I’m going to get with the source material.

Also, I’m not going to lie, a big reason this took so long was because I had to go back and redo everything because I ended up losing the original project files to hard drive failure. But going back to redo everything allowed me to rethink a lot of what I did and do things differently than I did the first time. I ended up having a lot of new ideas in the process.

So this is going to end up on the updated cutlist, but here are the biggest changes (in broad strokes) since the preview cut:

1. New crawl!!!

2. Color grading. Alright, well, I decided to go through with the color grading thing. I’m no pro colorist, but I was inspired by emanswfan’s filmized editions of the prequels (which don’t actually exist anywhere yet so I had to do my own thing) to make the film generally look more gritty and grimy, and shot on film, and just less plastic and more visually appealing. It might look worse to you tbh, and if it does, hmu and I’d gladly render out a non-color graded version. The grain and artifacts are definitely a problem up close. But this is my edit, and I like how it looks overall, so you know.
   http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/116544
   http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/116546

3. Even more audio/conversation editing. When it came to Anakin dialogue and scenes, I basically left no stone unturned. There’s new audio clips in every scene with him to either add to or replace his dialogue, as well as a restructuring of most of his conversations. I’ve got him the most sympathetic, somewhat likeable, and mature I’ve personally seen in most edits of this movie. And this is the movie where he kills children, so I’m kind of proud of that.

   Additionally, just a lot more casual talk and laughing/chuckles. Makes everyone seem more human. A lot more people interrupting each other or talking over each other instead of taking turns delivering lines. All of the talking/politics scenes just seem to go by a lot faster now. Mostly because they do.

   I tried to make the music editing a lot better too. Like, if I inserted a track like Anakin’s Theme or Anakin’s Dream, that it was integrated into the film better, and that you won’t be able hear too many remnants of the old score I replace.

4. The ending. My old drafts had more or less the original ending, just with the Hal/Russian scream instead of “NOO…!” But as I was going through this again, I felt like I didn’t even want that scene in there at all. Now the movie ends as Vader takes his first breaths, and then cut to black into credits with melancholy Star Wars music (similar to TCW season 5 finale). While this gets rid of R2/3PO getting their memories wiped and Yoda telling Obi Wan about Qui Gon, I feel like it’s more powerful to end the film like this. The whole movie is about Anakin’s turn into Vader, and to see him crying about Padme as Vader undermines his cold bloodedness a lot. And honestly, that scream of anguish/“no” is the only thing that tells us that Anakin hasn’t fully become Darth Vader yet, because we automatically associate the imagery with what the character is like the OT. The “no” subverts our expectation in a way that undermines the character arc. We had to assume that this sad!Vader becomes the Vader we know in the OT somewhere in between III and IV, but the movie’s existence is more valid if he’s just Darth Vader by the end.

Anyway, the 720p version should be finished rendering in like 14 hours, so I’ll get back to you guys some time then.

I actually started editing again today; with a new crawl, some new audio clips to give Anakin more personality, and HD (as opposed to the shitty quality of the previews I made). I’m also weighing my options from suggestions I’ve gotten in the process, and messing with a few more ideas. It should be finished pretty soon!

(just not within the next month, bc life)

^Said no one ever.

Mocata said:

God I hope not. But if true also fuck them for still using the who shot first thing.

…We’re not laughing at that yet?

https://twitter.com/starwarsjunk/status/875004810944278530

The film crew’s T-Shirt is pretty lol, but I kind of don’t want the movie to be called “Solo.”

^Doing ridiculous, dumb things is fun though, and I think that’s what a lot of people are missing. You start turning it into a lecture about “dignity” or “film appreciation” in the traditional sense, and you just miss the point.

We’re in a meme-loving, internet age with irony being almost every millennial’s favorite thing. The fact that the prequels are panned and are considered bad films, just makes them want to like the prequels more. It’s all in spite of the reception the prequels got, and “how” they should think and feel as adults, that compels them to exercise their creative mental gymnastics with analyses and headcanons, or continue to make elements of those films prevalent in pop culture.

Honestly, to describe the current trend, the prequels are “trendy” and “cool” now but not as great filmmaking. Whether it’s as a guilty pleasure, or “so bad it’s good”, or analyzing and breaking them down, or justifying them, or just liking them flaws and all, or whatever - a good chunk of these millennials are enjoying them for what they are in a much more honest way than those who attack the ST/OT in defense of them.

You’d be surprised at how much terrible stuff from those movies have become a part of the cultural consciousness. They’ve made almost every line in those films quotable and memorable through memes. Jar Jar, Watto, Sebulba, and the Nemoidians are iconic for how ridiculous and stupid they are.

And the weird thing is, they’re not laughing at the movies. They genuinely adore them in a way that’s hard to explain, almost in spite of those flaws. Because of them, kind of.

What’s “cool” to them is the notion that you aren’t letting general “uptightness” ruin your nostalgic feelings from when you were kid, but taking the films as they are. I think a lot of it has to do with the shift in “cool” as a word going from outspoken and edgy to chill and spontaneous. Idk how much of it has to do with stoner overtaking punk, but it’s there. And not to mention, that in an age where everyone and their mother is a pseudo-film-scholar, being able to do write-ups about something objectively bad and getting interesting material out of it is just what is considered fun now.

It’s definitely a waste of time and energy, but young people are maturing much later in life. “30 is the new 20” as they say. And people in their 20’s are what drive current trends in pop culture and the internet. Being a geek doesn’t have a negative connotation, and liking something unpopular is just “in.” I’m all for it honestly. Aside from the troll we’ll definitely feed here or there, I think it’s pretty harmless.

…

This is not everyone who likes the prequels of course, but I think it’s why it’s more accepted in mainstream now in recent years to say you like them.

When geek culture became mainstream and the kids who grew up with the prequels became adults.

Alderaan said:

Fang Zei said:

I didn’t say the rights issue was preventing a new release. I said they are intentionally keeping what’s coming next in their back pocket for after May of 2020 so they don’t have to share any of the profits with Fox.

Again, this doesn’t make any sense though and doesn’t hold up to the bare minimum of scrutiny. If they didn’t want to share money with Fox, they wouldn’t be selling the Blurays right now, at all. The distribution rights aren’t faintly related to the lack of OOT release in way at all.

“Not selling Star Wars anywhere, at all” is what doesn’t make sense.

Not everyone is a gymnast for a reason. xP

Inb4 “george lucas and his enablers didn’t care and suck,” it’s kind of fun to see what justifications and retcons Lucasfilm come up with to explain inconsistencies or bad writing.

The new canon novel “A New Hope: The Princess, the Scoundrel, and the Farm Boy” does retcon the OP inconsistency by having Obi Wan interact with R2 on the Falcon while Luke is busy practicing his saber stuff and everyone else is obviously preoccupied. R2 comes up next to him with familiarity, and Obi Wan pets him, saying something to the effect of, “It’s good to fly with you again, my old friend.”

So, he’s being his cheeky “point of view” self when he said he didn’t “own” R2, just meaning that he didn’t consider him property, but a friend.

…

The Leia comic kind of explains Leia remembering her mother; she sees a portrait of Padme on Naboo, and through the force or whatever she feels a connection to it, and the painting actually appears to move and look directly at her with sad eyes. It’s actually really lame, but like I said, the lengths the story group goes for this kind of thing is funny.

Wow those colors look awesome, I am actually really excited for this.

Oh wow, I have my work cut out for me just responding to all of these. I’ll get back to replying tomorrow, but for now, I’ll respond to the easiest stuff since it’s late here and I’m pretty sleepy. The workshopping and explaining I’ll try to do tomorrow.

@Jeebus: 1080p Schorman preservation is my source
@LordRorek: On your PPS, that’s exactly what I did. The “trap” thing.
@snooker: Thank you for the feedback. But I am curious to know why exactly “So we doing this or what?” doesn’t fit there so that I might find a suitable replacement. I felt it was more casual than the theatrical line and that jokey-ness works more with the characterization of the friendship I’m going for. Not to mention how it fits the situation in which neither of them really want to deal with politicians.

^Thank you! I’ll work on those. I’m really glad you actually gave feedback!

For the miswire jokes thing, I remember the mindset I was in when cutting that, and I think it’s because I didn’t want Anakin and Obi Wan to have any hint of animosity in the opening. I wasn’t sure if someone was going to read that scene as Anakin being serious or sarcastic - I didn’t want anyone to think Anakin took something like that so personally. And I also don’t know if there’s enough in the film that characterizes Anakin’s humor as doing bits. It’s a little more innocuous and traditionally friendly for Anakin just to go straight to being defensive of R2, rather than snark on the offensive. I might put it back after thinking about it more.

In the opera, I think cutting straight to “is it possible to learn this power” is too abrupt, and makes the Darth Plagueis story much less of a story. It’s weird to have Palpatine build up this tragedy and then it end up just being “There was a guy who could save people from death. The end.” And if you just meant to switch out “he could actually…?” with it, you get rid of “Not from a Jedi”, which is the beat I feel like the scene should end on. Besides, it’s not a huge thing to have Anakin ask as if to make sure he heard something right.

LordRorek said:
0:9:26 - 0:9:55
I like what you did here with the elevator and R2 burning the droids although I feel that cutting back and forth between the two happens a little too much thus making it kinda distracting. What I would suggest is that after you have R2 fix the elevator cut to the elevator segment and then after Anakin and Obi-Wan’s little banter about R2 you cut to R2 getting picked up and burning the droids. I feel it would be less distracting and the comedic timing would work better overall.

I guess it’s just me, but I rather like the cutting back and forth; the juxtaposition of R2 having a violent-ish adventure as Obi Wan and Anakin are literally just having an elevator chat, works better to me than if we watch one happen then the other. It’s quick, abrupt, and happens a lot, but I think that’s what adds to the humor. But that is a device used in editing for comedy movies, so I can see how it’s distracting in the context of a movie like this. Idk.

0:13:03 - 0:13:05
I like what you did here having Anakin in silent contemplation rather than saying “Then his fate will be the same as ours.” but it looks a little weird. I would suggest holding on his face then using the part where he looks up from Obi-wan toward Palpatine ( 0:13:01 - 0:13:02 ) but reverse it so it looks like he is looking down at Obi-wan.

Thanks for this! I’ve been trying to break how I was going to fix this scene, and I can’t believe I didn’t think of reversing the previous shot! I’ve changed it quickly in between studying lol. Thank you! It really helps to have more than my pair of eyes on the edit.

0:25:21 - 0:25:28
Excellent editing here I love the dialog changes but the music gets a little loud towards the end to the point where I can hardly hear Palpatine say “and you saved my life.”.

I had “and you saved my life” at a higher volume in an earlier cut, but the disparity between it and “you fought many battles…” was too noticeable to a few people who had previewed. The next few cuts were then too quiet, and I guess I’m still ironing out what the perfect level for that line is. Have to find that middle ground.

0:53:07 - 0:53:10
The only thing I don’t like about this scene is that you suddenly cut to Grievous mid-fall without showing him jumping off the platform.

This doesn’t bother me too much. He was actually force pushed into a wall by Obi Wan after their stare-down and slid/fell down into the shot you see in my cut. The fact that you thought he jumped himself is probably what I was going for.

1:03:18 - 1:03:19
I understand why you cut out the whole spin jump Palpatine does but it feels like something has been removed when I watch it so even though its kinda silly I would keep it.

That’s fair. To me, with the spin, it feels like the Jedi are too slow to react. Without one extra shot, it’s more of a surprise attack. So it was either keeping in the spin shot, or the shot of him landing - and since the shot of him landing is not only less silly, but also consistent with the next shot, I decided to use that one. I hoped people assumed he just jumped forward.

1:04:27 - 1:05:38
I saw what you were going for but I feel the transition of Palpatine’s face from normal to scarred without an explanation is a little jarring and would be kinda confusing to first-time viewers. I also feel that Anakin should say “What have I done?” because without that it makes Palpatine’s next statement sound like half a conversation to me.

This is actually from Hal 9000’s edit, and I think it’s fine tbh. It would be kind of confusing to the hypothetical first time viewer, but I don’t know how much. There are alot of things that go unexplained in Star Wars, and this is one of those things that’s easier to assume correctly; that that’s his “true form” or whatever. The “or whatever” part allows for some imagination on the part of the viewer anyway.

As for “what have I done”, I do think it’s better for Anakin to not be so indecisive. He knows what he did, he chose to do it. Showing immediate regret makes the foundation in which he made the decision come off as a little shaky. Like, “I did this, but I didn’t really want to?” Hayden’s face says enough about how “hard” it was to do, but I wanted to draw attention away from him thinking it was the “wrong” thing to do. And I know I’ve said Anakin in my cut doesn’t think he’s in the moral right as Darth Vader, but all that means is that he hasn’t deluded himself into thinking he’s “the hero” or he’s doing good things. He knows he’s doing bad things, but to him, the ends justify the means.

“You’re fulfilling your destiny…” isn’t definitively an answer to a question either. It’s just a statement, and that Palps says it on his own, kind of paints him as such a confident bastard; despite Anakin not saying anything one way or another, he gets up and starts talking like he has no doubts Anakin will join him.

1:05:38 - 1:06:40
I like this scene although I would have at least a mention of Padme being the reason why he pledges himself to Darth Sidious and about them needing to work together to discover the secret to life because it feels a little too quick and I think a first time viewer would be left wondering “why is he becoming his apprentice now? isn’t there another options?”. I also feel cutting to Yoda in this scene is a little distracting, it should focus entirely on Anakin and Palpatine.

Padme isn’t the only reason he pledges himself, so I didn’t want to draw too much attention to her as the primary reason. Also, Palpatine admitting that he doesn’t know how to save Padme when Anakin makes it clear that’s his motivation is… well. That sentence speaks for itself. Why would Anakin still be listening at this point?

So while there’s no definitive answer verbally spoken about why he’s pledging himself, I trust my audience to understand how set up and pay off works. As for Yoda, I might remove it if more people find it unnecessary.

1:30:45 - 1:30:46
There’s a weird music change at this point that was a little distracting.

I thought the music surprisingly flowed from one note to the next despite my cutting, but I did think the background lava explosion sfx just kind of abruptly stops; is that what you meant? If that’s the case, I’m definitely still trying to work that out. Maybe by having the sound fade out a little sooner before the next cut? But that might be more jarring.

1:31:16 - 1:31:38
I like how you cut out a lot of the cheesy dialog here but it feels a little clunky and disjointed. Here is how I feel it could be improved.

Anakin “To my new empire.”.

Obi-Wan “Your new empire? Anakin, my allegiance is to the republic!”

Anakin “If you’re not with me then you’re my enemy.”

Obi-Wan “I will do what I must.”

Anakin “You will try.”

I feel this removes most of the cheesy dialog while still feeling like a complete conversation.

1:35:30 - 1:35:39
I would have included Anakin saying “This is the end for you.” I just feel Anakin is a little too quiet throughout the fight. Obi-Wan at least got “I have failed you Anakin.” so I feel Anakin should have at least a little dialog. Also, I feel Obi-Wan should say the full “I have failed you Anakin, I have failed you.” because I feel it cuts away a little too quickly when you shorten it.

For me, this scene is clunky no matter how you spin it. If it sounds like a half a conversation in my edit though, that’s almost the point. Anakin doesn’t want to talk.

This goes back to how I feel Anakin should be acting in lieu of the set up. Like I said, he hasn’t deluded himself into thinking he’s doing the morally righteous good thing, he’s acting on “the ends justify the means.” He’s not corrupted by the dark side or is yearning to increase his power in the force - the dark side allows him to do what needs to be done for his idea of a galaxy under law and order, to keep Padme safe. Its philosophy tells him it’s okay to do these things and to feel this way. So he’s not proud of himself or the things he’s done - but he has to do them. To me, his pre-duel taunts against Obi Wan lean too closely to the original where he feels proud to be a sith, and has deluded himself into thinking the jedi are evil, including Obi Wan.

I think there isn’t enough to support the idea that in the time Anakin and Obi Wan are separated, he turns fully against his best friend. Before, you have the justification of “oh the dark side corrupted him” or “oh they were never really friends”, but those are both contrary to the idea of my edit. They’re really only enemies by circumstance and what Anakin’s done at this point; I don’t think Anakin should have any real ill will against Obi Wan. By leaving “if you’re not with me…” hanging, and silence from Anakin there onwards, it’s almost like Anakin is giving Obi Wan a quick out. But Obi Wan obviously doesn’t want to back down, so Anakin does he must - which is try to kill him. From there, Anakin is “too quiet” because in my interpretation of the characters, I do believe that any verbal engagement between the two would go differently than it did in the theatrical. Obi Wan could talk sense (or at the very least regret enough to stop) into Anakin, because from Anakin’s POV, he doesn’t believe the Jedi are actually evil.

When Obi Wan says “I have failed you…”, they’ve stopped fighting and it’s his chance to reach out to Anakin to possibly bring him back with a conversation. I think it might have worked if Anakin engaged back, and I think Anakin kind of knows that. He stays silent and willfully ignores him to avoid his own motivations becoming clouded. He doesn’t need to hear something that might invalidate all the things he’s done and what he’s doing. This all has to be for something, but he doesn’t trust himself not to fall back into the light with a few words from a friend. The explicit “This is the end for you, my master” might say the same thing about Anakin willfully tuning out Obi Wan, but it feels too much, again, like Anakin is playing the part of someone who wants to do this. I think his silence works better towards my end goals and is vague enough to allow for other interpretations: like he doesn’t want to humanize his target by talking because the human would be his best friend.

1:36:00 - 1:36:10
I’m a little torn as to whether or not to include Anakin’s “underestimate my power” line but I think that you should have focused on Anakin’s face before Obi-Wan says “Don’t try it” because to me Obi-Wan can just tell what Anakin is thinking by the look on his face but if he just says it without focusing on Anakin’s face first, it looks a little weird.

I had a slowed down shot of Anakin’s face there in an earlier cut, but it looks even weirder. I took the lesser of two weirds, because I really don’t want “underestimate my power.”

1:36:15 - 1:37:22
Now I want to say that of all the things you changed removing the majority of Obi-Wan’s speech was my least favorite. I know you’re trying to make this more personal and less about the prophecy but I feel that this entire speech is completely personal because in my mind this speech is two things.

1. Obi-Wan is saying “You were my brother, You were the greatest of us, and you betrayed us all.” this is basically Obi-Wan telling Anakin how disappointed he is that he has fallen so low and how much Obi-Wan failed him.

2. This is the point from Obi-Wan’s point of view where Anakin “died”. So I consider this speech in a way to be Obi-Wan’s eulogy for Anakin Skywalker who was in his words “The best star pilot in the galaxy, a cunning warrior, and he was a good friend.”.

Good points, and I might put it back in.

1:43:36 - 1:43:55
I see what you were gong for here but I would put a pause between what the emperor saying “You killed her” and Vader’s reaction and put Padme’s death during said pause so that we can see Vader’s reaction on screen. Seeing his reaction to this news is one of the highlights of ROTS for me, so I would hate to see it cut.

I’ll see what I can do. I remember putting Padme’s death where it was because I felt the shot went by too fast before or after Vader’s initial reaction.

The only other thing I feel should be included in this edit is this deleted scene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJUVHSBy9JM but remove Grevious and Shok Te so they can meet him on the bridge. Because I feel this scene adds some levity to the film and the banter gives off that brothers vibe you’re going for.

I’d love to, but I really don’t know where I’d put it or how I’d even make the scene work without Grevious.

…

Anyway, thank you so much for actually giving feedback! It really helps out. And I do love the poster. I really want to leave it up to people to vote, but I might just have to pick one myself when I’m done. It might be yours. It has the font Disney has been using for their new stuff and the TLJ red logo - for “The New Canon Cut,” it fits nicely.

It’s funny because that scene in my edit is almost half the duration of the original, if we count from the moment the first lightsaber slices a droid to when they deactivate the lightsabers. (27 seconds vs 14 seconds). I guess I could try to make that shorter, I just don’t know where.

If you want to know where the edits are in the rest of the intro up to Grevious’s first appearance:

• I changed “Master” to “Obi Wan”
• Cut “crawling with buzz droids”
• Added “General Skywalker, ready to engage” from a clone as they get into position
• “I’m gonna go help him out” exhange cut
• Cut “Missiles!”
• Cut “Buzz droids…”
• Cut Obi Wan recapping the mission before “we’re running out of tricks here.”
• Cut “Hold your fire, you’re not helping” and “You’re right, bad idea” exchange
• Cut Obi Wan telling Anakin to go on without him and “Not leaving without you, master”
• Cut “You’re going to get us both killed” from Obi Wan
• Replaced R2 scream with more neutral R2 noises
• Cut “The shields are still up!” exhange
• Cut Obi Wan leap out of fighter
• Cut R2 leap from fighter
• Silenced droids
• Cut extra shots of them just slicing droids
• Cut “I sense Count Dooku”
• Cut “Stay with the ship” exchange with R2
• Cut “Just as Count Dooku predicted” from Grevious

It’s at this point most people check out, because I kept in (an edited down version of, at least) the elevator sequence and even added more banter between O/A.

EDIT: did you know that if accidentally double click the post button, it posts twice

I really like that! I might actually use some version of that for a new crawl when I get back to editing.

So, I’m going to stop working at this for a bit. Temporarily. I’ve already been working on it less and less, but as the semester at college is coming to a close, and finals week is nearing, I’ve decided to put it on hold for now. So no new updates for a while. Not that there were a lot anyway.

That said, I do have a very unfinished rough cut with the newest (pending) changes and ideas. So if anyone wants to preview this latest mockup version, hmu. i live for feedback btw

And honestly, I do think he knew that. It’s just that no one wanted to do the prequels for him, because this was when everyone still thought he was a genius - Spielberg and whoever else didn’t want to “ruin his vision”, or deal with the pressure that would come with doing them.

We can be cynical about it and theorize no one wanted to do it because maybe his initial treatments of the prequels were terrible or whatever, but I don’t think anything about those movies and its ideas ended up seeming un-doable by anyone. You definitely could have made something great out of a lot of thematic stuff there. They still worked to some fraction of an extent, despite of what you think of those films. People then just had faith (a little too much) in him, or just didn’t want to help him.

So I think characterizing him as this narcissistic crazy guy is a little wrong. He’s been very open about his insecurities about this “movie for 12 year olds” he made in 1977. It’s why he continued tampering with it long after they were released in theatres.

I don’t even think his ideas are too far out there, he’s actually responsible for reigning in/veto-ing the more out there ideas that never made it into the prequels and Clone Wars animated series. So we know he has/had a somewhat specific vision (he’s not just doing whatever the hell he feels like) - he just needs to organize them, or get someone to organize them for him, and learn that some things - like the OT - were fine and don’t need to be fixed.

Stuff like “he hates his fans” is just self-victimizing and immature, and is only ever true when you start saying stuff like that to antagonize him. I mean no disrespect to anyone who genuinely believes he was out to get them by not releasing the OOT, but I do hope they get some perspective.

I did say “interesting”, not right. xP

Here is where he talks about it, actually, and the interesting order in which he showed his friend:
https://youtu.be/ijspNzliBWk?t=4m36s

They start talking about stuff that’s wrong with the special editions after that segment of the conversation as a bonus for you guys btw.

Sam Witwer had a really interesting order (for kids at least), and it went TCW, ANH, ESB, ROTS, ROTJ.

Anakin would be their hero. When they see what’d happened to the galaxy and that Darth Vader killed him in ANH… Finding out that they’re one in the same in ESB would blow their minds even more than it did for any of us. They would have actually known Anakin and not just heard about what a great guy he was from Obi Wan. You also eliminate 2 out of the 3 prequels.

You’re right, I’m sorry. I didn’t realize that term held as much negative weight as calling others stupid or inferior. But it does apparently. So I apologize for offending you. I just assumed we were all a little thicker skinned, since we seem to be fine dishing it out. I was also calling myself a “fanboy” to be fair.

I am sorry, hopefully no one misconstrues me as disrespecting them.

Mocata said:

Sure I was one of those kids. Kids are stupid. I saw the whole prequel trilogy in theatres and didn’t have a lot of complaints at the time. We hit each other with sticks after the screening, re-enacting TPM after seeing the climactic duel. It’s embarrassing but I was one of those ROTS fans when it came out. But people change and we grow up, some later than others. While something like The Lord of the Rings got better when rewatching, cementing its status as a high point for the genre, the prequel DVDs gathered dust and were eventually cleared out. I’m not being critical just as an OT fan, but as a film fan. All the lofty ideas can’t save them from becoming tedious and badly written.

If you look at it all as one whole, you have to admit that only certain things stick. Is Podracing still a thing? The Clone Wars might not have been so popular without all those TV episodes lifting it up. They made TFA the way it is exactly because of those ‘general audiences’. They are still making enough plastic R2D2 merchandise to destroy the world’s oceans several times over, so the real cultural impact is still 1977 not 1999.

I don’t disagree with you. I just have a different point, and I honestly think it’s fine for other people to not really care about it, because it’s not something most people have to think about. And in that way, you’re absolutely right. The PT doesn’t have the same amount of impact as the originals do. I even said that.

But I don’t think it should be outright dismissed because of that. I don’t blame people if they do, ofc. The movies aren’t great IMO. And a lot of why they were allowed to have the impact they did is because of the originals, anyway.

Right, and the prequels have massive faults like that (although to be fair, some of those aren’t true), but in a cultural context, the prequels do hold significance to the current state of blockbuster, digital film making, and mainstream storytelling.

No one’s studying the prequels as an example of good filmmaking, obviously, but its ambition with technological innovation and strides made with the concept of diegesis in film worlds is worth discussing in an analysis of where the industry is now, where we are today as a critical audience, and what the “general audience” as a phrase means to a studio when it comes to making movies. It’s a little more academic and admittedly pretentious, than whether or not a character or faction in them was iconic. It’s more to do with cultural shift, rather than revolution or phenomenon.

And we shouldn’t downplay the trilogy’s effects on the generation(s) that have and will grow up with it. Sure, these particular films coast on the brand name established by the OT, but they’re there, and are introductions to more complex ideals that aren’t in a lot of works directed at a younger audience. The same way Luke Skywalker taught us “basic” good vs evil lessons (I’m being reductionist fyi), there are plenty of implicit morals in the PT that wouldn’t hurt towards better equipping someone in dealing with where the world is today. There is plenty of substance in these films, despite its objectively poor direction. It’s allowed to resonate with people, especially those not educated about what makes it objectively weak, in spite of that poor direction. Not everyone thinks and scrutinizes the same way a film student or critical OT fan does.

To get anecdotal rather than academic about it, try not to think about it as “either or” the OT or PT, because a kid nowadays grows up with both (As well as the ST and spinoffs now I suppose). Additionally, the only reason we know so much about what went wrong with the PT is that we can analyze the incredibly well documented process through the wealth of special/bonus features released with the DVDs - but that kind of thing being easy access definitely inspires aspiring filmmakers.

I do think people don’t give the prequels enough credit. They’ve given me a lot of material to work with in writing academic papers for my film major, and while the crux of film studies and theory is over-scrutinization and analysis of what is essentially entertainment, there is a lot of stuff in the prequels that I’ve found has been significant and/or subversive to film form, production, and storytelling. Not in the context of Star Wars for original trilogy fanboys ofc, just in the context of film history. Obviously only in the last 20 years, and much quieter than the original’s immediate cultural phenomenon status.

They may not have the objective strength as quality films alone, but there’s diegetic ambition and symptomatic relevance in these films that shouldn’t be overlooked because Hayden doesn’t like sand and Jar Jar Binks issa bombad.

I’m not even saying that the changes to the industry brought on by the prequels were good, either. But for better or for worse, they are significant films. It is probably more worth it to read about and study them as opposed to watch them for entertainment purposes, but even then, there is value in how the prequels continue play a role in the development of future generations; kids who don’t know too much better and do enjoy them.