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NFBisms

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Post
#1513066
Topic
Cassian Andor - Live-Action Series
Time

yotsuya said:
I watch a lot of shows. The only Star Wars item I am looking for connection on with this is Rogue One. The title of this series is Andor so it should be mostly about him and what led him to the character we see in Rogue One. There is a lot of extra stuff in this series that isn’t related to those events. It is tying into the Rebellion in general and that ties into the Skywalker Saga. Mon Mothma is part of the Skywalker Saga. Luthien is not, but I don’t feel his character had much development and he should have been the focus. Instead we know way more about the culture of Mon Mothma’s family and world than is useful to a tighter story of Cassian Andor.

Why does the name of the show in any way matter? Working titles have always been a thing - you don’t start writing from a Title onwards and whatever it lands on is more often than not a marketing decision than a story one. Sure, in this case they started with that pitch, but once Gilroy came onboard, his manifesto informed the entire project.

The scope is much broader and I can’t see why that’s such a bad thing to you, especially when Cassian does get more than enough here amidst the rest of the intricate overview. (What else would you need to know about him, for example? We damn near got his life story and every motivation). I get being bored by it if that’s not your speed, but you seem to think the whole thing is conceptually misconceived. But clearly a lot of us here really liked what they did - you really can’t level with even some of that from the outside?

It’s not about the character individually, the entire thing is about rebellion and defiance as pointedly collective and its value as such; tackling the logistics and morality involved in synthesizing that fire into a real revolution, and the sacrifice different people have to make for it to work. Everything is cause and effect, including Mothma’s financial woes. It’s not “extra”, it’s just The Show. It’s what it is.

Post
#1513026
Topic
Cassian Andor - Live-Action Series
Time

Short of writing breakdowns for every episode and being even more annoying haha, I’ll just say that it really just depends on your preferences and what excites you I guess. I personally had a feast to chew on every week and sure, it wasn’t of the plot moving, action variety, but I found it incredibly concise in every ambition it had.

I guess to help you level, I wouldn’t concpetualize Mothma’s arc as “backstory”, implying it as a piece of a larger puzzle being The Saga. It’s its own Story in itself and if you can’t appreciate in on those terms, then it’s whatever

Post
#1513021
Topic
Cassian Andor - Live-Action Series
Time

“Faster More Intense” was always kind of patronizing, no? I think to go there for the audience they were obviously going for here, the creative team would have to be intentionally condescending.

You’re asking for this show’s strength as slower paced, broader scope work be stripped, in favor of offering something any other Star Wars thing already has. It’s the kind of cynical, bad faith storytelling I think many of us are burnt out on, as though a SW audience would only latch onto the familiar or the flash. Maybe that just means I don’t like Star Wars™. 🤷‍♂️. If it’s good, it’s good.

Post
#1512993
Topic
Cassian Andor - Live-Action Series
Time

yotsuya said:

timdiggerm said:

yotsuya said:

It largely circled back to where it started, at least for Cass.

Not at all! Cassian has undergone a tremendous conversion. Whereas he went with Luthen out of desperation and took part in the Aldahni mission for money, now he’s preparing for action by listening to Nevik’s manifesto and joining Luthen willingly, dissatisfied with any life but one of full commitment to the cause. He is a changed man.

He’s change by the events of the last episode more than all the rest of the season. That is my issue. Nevik’s manifesto is far too similar to his mother’s speech.

I actually don’t think the last episode changed him at all. If anything, he went into the last episode a certain way and ended it just verbalizing that to Luthen. You’re exactly right about the manifesto vs Maarva’s speech. But Maarva’s speech wasn’t for him, he didn’t need to hear it anymore; esp. since she pretty much said all of that to him herself in episode 7.

Post
#1512898
Topic
Cassian Andor - Live-Action Series
Time

A small thing about this show that is actually such a big thing, is just how many parts there are. The breadth and scope of this thing is unrivaled in television on a logistical level. So many characters that won’t appear outside their respective arcs/settings, with no spoken name, get full beats in the storytelling and even written lines. It’s kind of insane when you think about it.

Shows are usually broken down between Series Regulars, Recurring Cast, and Guest Stars. The narrative structure necessitated by that is pretty consistent and easy to notice. A main ensemble will be relatively small, have some background constants, and will occasionally cross paths with a temporary presence for an episode or a few at a time. Even shows as big as GoT will often relegate the [collective] whims of ruled subjects (of which there are probably thousands in-story) to dialogue between main characters about them, or extras as set dressing - acting out a mob, attending an event, a large battle, etc. But they lack individual agency and are a homogenous whole outside recurring/guests as their ambassadors.

It’s almost subtle, but there are so many bit parts in Andor. Narkina 5’s prisoners, the troops in the garrison at Aldhani, the community on Ferrix. It communicates so much depth in the world here not just because Production Design Good™, but because the space is so filled with characters, not just extras. It’s a show full of Glup Shittos actually getting moments.

This wouldn’t be out of place in a two hour movie, but this is TV

Post
#1511915
Topic
Cassian Andor - Live-Action Series
Time

I was pretty ready to say Andor was probably the best Star Wars thing ever produced tbh. Frankly, it just aligns with what my tastes in media have become since I first saw the movies as a child.

BUT I put ESB on the other day and it still rules so hard, and in ways Andor will never have ambition for.

Like, I’m at a place where Andor’s imagination for the universe is more meaningful to me now, but the originals’ combination of elements is so idiosyncratic and likeable, I can still admire them as an adult, their place in culture, in cinematic history, and how it makes me feel. I feel like I shouldn’t trust that feeling, because it comes with so much nostalgia and baggage - maybe it’s not objective! But I really think I would still adore them as fun, odd films if I was just seeing them for the first time.

Between Andor and the OT, I think their mutual existences just make each other better.

Post
#1508032
Topic
Cassian Andor - Live-Action Series
Time

Vladius said:

I like the show a lot but I wish people wouldn’t throw around terms like “spy thriller” or “political thriller” or talk about how it dissects capitalism or something.

Those are corporate buzzwords just as much as anything else. The MCU does the same thing, they put out a movie and they’ll call it a “political thriller” or a “heist movie” or a “horror movie” and then they just make a normal superhero action movie with some genre flavoring. And I like those movies a lot, I just don’t like it when people read marketing materials and then spout them verbatim from whatever Kevin Feige or whoever said. People here did it with “The Skywalker Saga.” That was a marketing term used to promote Rise of Skywalker. Even though most here hated that movie, they bought it hook, line, and sinker and felt compelled to make unnecessary 9 movie mega edits because of it, because you have to have the complete Skywalker Saga.

Guarantee most people today who use the term “political thriller” would not even know that genre existed if it weren’t for these corporate brands using it in that way.

Star Wars stands on its own without feeling insecure and talking about how this is ADULT and SERIOUS and INTELLIGENT. It’s just a well written, well made, well directed show.

I think the counter-shill can be just as unproductive, because I do think someone like Tony Gilroy put a lot of thought and effort into making his show.

I think it’s a shame that all other media more or less gets to be taken in as their own pieces, to be analyzed with all the nerdy film stuff that I fell in love with as a film fan in the first place. But Star Wars doesn’t get to have that anymore, because of The Boss, I guess. Not saying every project released under Disney deserves it, but I lament how we can have threads discussing stuff like what balance in the Force means to us individually + other headcanons, or even how much George Lucas may/may not have known what he was doing, etc… But Andor - dense with its own substance and cool things to dissect - is still stuck in the culture proxy war. Even when it’s positive, it’s just, “Can you believe how much better it is than BOBF or Kenobi???”

Either way, I think drawing attention to Disney [The Nebulous Entity] Doesn’t Care, as though that’s news to anyone, is ironically far shallower a direction to lead discussion than anything the show is putting down itself. I’d rather appreciate where studio and artist meet in the middle and that there can be wins on the creative side of this soul-crushing churn, than rehash the same tired cynicism that fundamentally misunderstands how the industry works anyway.

I haven’t used the “political thriller” moniker myself, but I do think this show is very, un-accidentally political. I don’t see the purpose in handwaving any intentions or themes in the material.

It’s just a little disheartening to write up an earnest, excited breakdown of cool things I could take away from the work, and then for someone to twist it as corporate shilling

Post
#1507564
Topic
Cassian Andor - Live-Action Series
Time

MalaStrana#2 said:

Fan_edit_fan said:

MalaStrana#2 said:

Still following it: I get what this series is trying to do, I see the efforts, just too bad it’s soooooooooo slow with no emotion (and a bit of a very lackluster casting, especially Diego Luna, totally uninteresting). I thought it was going full “Bourne” but it’s now closer to “Michael Clayton”… which is kinda off topic. It seems the series will only be 24 episodes spanned over 2 seasons: they better hurry to start telling a story (and not just close ups of sad people’s faces), there isn’t much time left already.

We are watching two different shows it seems. 🤔

Not really: I just don’t find anything great about it, while you seem to enjoy a lot public servants reading files and people hiking in the highlands.

That’s Gilroy’s go-to magic trick though, isn’t it? Externally, it’s “public servants reading files” - perhaps a dry, soulless environment or a bleak state of affairs - but philosophically, it’s about everything. It has hope, it has meaning. It’s emotional in its repression thereof. It’s in a way, very Star Wars.

You brought up Michael Clayton. Big law firm representing a corrupt company is “boring” on paper, but it’s entirely compelling in practice. Sharp dialogue and excellent performances carry us through scenes of tense bargaining and self reflection; very writerly, very classy. Conversations become the action setpieces, where real violence is rare and morally disappointing. But the important bit is that Michael isn’t just contending with UNorth as a corporate villain, the movie is really a struggle for his soul. The plot elements may be sociopolitical, but philosophically it’s universal and human. It’s about redemption, about conscience. Tension releases when the right thing is done. The Bourne movies as well. Political thriller, but about love, identity (obviously), purpose.

The through-line of Andor is multi-dimensional in the same ways.

Dedra and Syril represent the banality of evil. Overachievers at their jobs; they’re not trying to oppress the galaxy - they just want that promotion, or even to do the Right Thing when a corrupt system won’t. Syril’s pitiable life informs his feelings of powerlessness. Dedra’s aspirations are seemingly blocked by unfair prejudices. They’re looking for meaning and purpose in their lives, and it’s damn near innocuous - but it affects so many under the boot of the institutions they work for. Syril exacerbates already strained community-cop relations on Ferrix by over-exercising power he’s always lacked [that cops maybe shouldn’t have]. Dedra is pushing the Empire to go even further than that in the name of her career.

It takes the mythological pop culture villain of the Empire and adds shades of capitalism and everyday bureaucracy. Underdogs as inherently sympathetic, placed in a familiar [almost American/British-coded] systems… but now, closely related to and prototypical of the Space Nazis we knew. That allegory is cutting and radical criticism of our Establishment in many ways. It’s Andor’s appeal as socio-politically conscious, but it interplays with the universal themes of disenfranchisement and life-meaning for many of the characters caught in its web.

Cassian needs meaning, but doesn’t know what he believes ideologically - he just knows what he’s against. Many of the Aldhani crew come with their own baggage but offer him a more articulate manifesto and direction for his pent-up anger. The narrative is so wholly about revolution, but more importantly all the different fires that spark individually from circumstance. Rebellion as instinctual and universal. Syril and Dedra are rebels too, in their own way.

“I’ve been saying all along we need a stronger hand with these affiliated planets. There’s fomenting out there, sir. Pockets of fomenting. Corporate Tactical Forces are the Empire’s first line of defense, and the best way to keep the blade sharp is to use it.” - Linus Mosk

“It’s so confusing, isn’t it? So much going wrong, so much to say, and all of it happening so quickly. The pace of oppression outstrips our ability to understand it. And that is the real trick of the Imperial thought machine. It’s easier to hide behind 40 atrocities than a single incident. But they have a fight on their hands, don’t they? Our elemental rights are such a simple thing to hold, they will have to shake the galaxy awfully hard to loosen our grip.” -Karis Nemik

The dialogue is consistently this crackling and philosophically concise. It’s not boring - it’s just as theatrical as a good SW film, perhaps in a different flavor. It’s not dry or mundane - this isn’t “realism”, it’s still dramatic. But instead of pulp and flamboyance, there’s wit and precision. Swordplay-like exchanges between detailed characters. To pare it down to its external setting and action feels obtuse. What they’re saying - how - matters more than the superficial.

What makes it Star Wars is that this has always been there. Revolution and rebellion, the search for meaning, family, oppression and the lure of power. These are elements of Star Wars interpreted thoughtfully and expanded upon thoroughly. Always under the surface of the genre-pastiche, but shaded in its ethos nonetheless. At the forefront in Andor.

What does it mean to rebel against an Establishment? How does that Establishment keep its power? From Lucas saying the rebels were Viet Cong to “Nute Gunray” being a Newt Gingrich/Ronald Reagan mash-up, Andor is taking Star Wars’ politics seriously for once. And it’s filling out its world with real and complex emotions, not just the broad big ones. Maybe it’s 40 min too long for you, but the material when you can engage with all of it has conviction.

“Nothing” happens, but I’d argue everything does. This has more weight than fantasy adventures about things that aren’t real.

Post
#1507557
Topic
Cassian Andor - Live-Action Series
Time

MalaStrana#2 said:

Still following it: I get what this series is trying to do, I see the efforts, just too bad it’s soooooooooo slow with no emotion (and a bit of a very lackluster casting, especially Diego Luna, totally uninteresting). I thought it was going full “Bourne” but it’s now closer to “Michael Clayton”… which is kinda off topic. It seems the series will only be 24 episodes spanned over 2 seasons: they better hurry to start telling a story (and not just close ups of sad people’s faces), there isn’t much time left already.

Michael Clayton is a great movie!

Post
#1505277
Topic
Cassian Andor - Live-Action Series
Time

Vladius said:

NFBisms said:

On top of the finally competent execution and fiery writing, I just love how overtly political it is.

It goes so much further in its anti-fascist narrative than Star Wars ever has - placing responsibility for oppression not just on diabolical evildoers, but everyday corporate motivation - an upper class, the policing that protects their interests, the systemic abuse, and even the complacency/banality of those employed by said institutions.

The bad guys are all finally white guys again, and there’s no sympathy for a tragic antagonist here. The corpo we follow is a lawful, pathetic stick-in-the-mud with too much faith in the systems everyone else rightfully has palpable disgust/distrust for. A working class community gambles their freedom for one of their own. It’s not even calling out corruption, it’s reckoning with a capitalistic system working as it should (in spite of the corruption), and still being the oppressor. It’s angry and rebellious and has something to say I love that.

After years of having people complain black people in SW is political, this is actually political Star Wars and it rules

Dude settle down, if you want to go out and kill white people do it somewhere else

Not what I meant, don’t worry! 😃

I’ve just always felt like the archetypal posh White Man that was the OT’s imperial officers was a great, if subtle, bit of worldbuilding and symbolism. There’s something about the poise and pomp in which they carried themselves that contrasted well with the dominantly American-coded rebels. The implicit commentary of it all even made it into the old EU, with those Imperial human-superiority elements.

That commentary has been lost a bit in recent SW stuff. Reva in OBK, Terisa in Squadrons, Rae Sloane, etc. I get the inclusion angle or whatever in modern media, but it always felt a bit off to me to include those minorities in the ostensible fascism analogue. Cool characters in their own right, but meaningless to the thematic fiber of the original films.

Andor goes all-in on the original analogues. Just even on a purely aesthetic level, it works far better for the anti-oppression narrative than sympathizing with or girlboss-ing a fascist. And that’s not to say it’s without humanity either. Cyril may be kind of joyless and meek, but he’s not lawfully wrong and he’s trying to make something work within the system. There are echoes of Piett there, Ozzel in Chief Hyne, etc. It’s not meaningless politicism, it really has something to say about what motivates and fosters support of Power. Really good stuff

Post
#1505091
Topic
Cassian Andor - Live-Action Series
Time

On top of the finally competent execution and fiery writing, I just love how overtly political it is.

It goes so much further in its anti-fascist narrative than Star Wars ever has - placing responsibility for oppression not just on diabolical evildoers, but everyday corporate motivation - an upper class, the policing that protects their interests, the systemic abuse, and even the complacency/banality of those employed by said institutions.

The bad guys are all finally white guys again, and there’s no sympathy for a tragic antagonist here. The corpo we follow is a lawful, pathetic stick-in-the-mud with too much faith in the systems everyone else rightfully has palpable disgust/distrust for. A working class community gambles their freedom for one of their own. It’s not even calling out corruption, it’s reckoning with a capitalistic system working as it should (in spite of the corruption), and still being the oppressor. It’s angry and rebellious and has something to say I love that.

After years of having people complain black people in SW is political, this is actually political Star Wars and it rules

Post
#1495904
Topic
OLD BEN: An Obi-Wan Kenobi Fan Edit [ON HOLD]
Time

Lifeincontext said:

  • The placement of the moment on the star destroyer with the Grand Inquisitor/Vader didn’t quite work for me; would you mind clarifying your rationale for putting it there? I think the knowledge that they were chasing someone was just a bit confusing.

Alright, I took a crack at getting rid of the chase elements so they’re just standing on the bridge. The GI’s dialogue has also been trimmed to now refer to a more general, broad search, rather than a specific pursuit of insurgents.

Basically, I wanted to keep Vader and Obi-Wan’s Cat & Mouse as a main driving force for the edit, and I figured this scene was the best way in that vein to get the Empire and Reva to Daiyu. (Since she never orchestrated the kidnapping here). Dom asked why Vader then wouldn’t be on the planet himself, and I’m currently brainstorming how I can make it so that Vader actually follows Obi-Wan and Leia to Mapuzo himself. It was already their first confrontation in-show, and I think would help to sell how far below Vader the Inquisitors are. Maybe it’s my ESB bias, but the Vader I like is methodical and pragmatic.

But yeah, I found it was easy to “forget” that Anakin and Obi-Wan had unfinished business to resolve in the midst of all the other things going on in the show. Obviously it’s always still in the back of our minds, but it’s on hold often, and Obi-Wan’s arc feels mostly independent of Anakin, save for the two times they meet. I’m trying to make them co-leads as much as possible here. It was the purpose of the first perspective shift.

snooker said:
My one comment is that it seems unclear initially that Leia is on the same planet as Obi-Wan, so when he starts asking about her it feels a little strange. Other than that, wow - I am so excited to see where this goes! If you ever need visual effects done, feel free to reach out!

Does this help? I added an extra shot of Daiyu (earlier shot reversed, and erased the transport flying to it) and replaced the transition music so the scenes feel more smoothly connected.

Post
#1495715
Topic
OLD BEN: An Obi-Wan Kenobi Fan Edit [ON HOLD]
Time

^^ thanks guys! i try. maybe too hard lmao

DominicCobb said:
Having Ben leave Tatooine is a really bold idea. But having him loop back into helping Leia is tricky for sure. One of those things that could have worked if it was written that way, but proves an issue through fan editing. I’m still not sure the leap from Ben on his own to helping Leia is quite working.

Here’s an idea I had though. Since you have Ben on Tatooine as a little prologue by itself, and you’re already jumping perspective after the title card, what if you took it further? What if after the title card, you let the Leia storyline play out up until her capture. Then we cut to Kenobi on the ring world, and he senses her kidnapping? That way it doesn’t feel as if Ben has his vision straight after leaving, like in your last version, and he doesn’t have the coincidence of being on Daiyu already like in the new version. And we don’t have the somewhat random cutting back and forth between storylines of the original show.

Coincidence aside though, I do feel like Obi-Wan on Daiyu first de-emphasizes the leap a bit? I’m not married to it just yet, but idk, I can buy that Obi-Wan would at least take a look around if he sensed she was on the planet. He can be disillusioned about himself without being completely indifferent to Leia’s fate. The nature of the setpieces on Daiyu also lend itself to the idea that Ben is not doing this as a dutiful Jedi guardian, but merely as “just a man” (as Flea says) who cares for this little girl.

It was harder to reconcile when he was willing to travel planets to get to Leia - not to mention still so in tune with the Force as to sense that distance - but him [reluctantly] scoping it out because why not and becoming invested when things work out, doesn’t really contradict the previous character beat. It’s a huge coincidence but I think it’s one of the few options from my initial choice on Tatooine that can work with it thematically. We could just chalk it up to the Will Of The Force! The coincidence as the call to action itself.

Daiyu’s imagery as symbolic of his spiritual decay feels neat too. This context gives the initial meandering around Daiyu more specific emotional meaning than just establishing a tone and setting. He chose this by leaving Luke, this is all he has to look forward to.

Re: Alderaan, I could still do that even with the coincidental Daiyu - but I’m hesitant to start integrating them because I think it interrupts the tone I want to achieve. The few WIP attempts I have at least, don’t feel great. Trying to match it with the preceding material using the de-score only feel disingenuous to what those scenes are meant to evoke. Not to mention Ben sensing it then feels redundant and indulgent, and there’s only so many ways for Ben to become involved without a call from Bail.

Speaking of shifting perspectives, I’m not sure the Vader stuff is working for me yet. I really like how you cut that first scene with him, but it feels like a non sequitur with the surrounding scenes, especially because there’s no dialogue in it. I wonder if you could include the Reva hologram and try to incorporate it into that part of the story? With Vader masked and Reva’s back to the camera in a few shots, there’s some room to play with dialogue replacement to make the scene fit. The later scene of Vader is a fun reuse of that scene, although I wonder if it raises the question of why isn’t he on Daiyu?

Yeah, that Reva idea is another one I have in WIPs. I’ve definitely been able to play around with the dialogue, I’ll post a clip tomorrow maybe, but unless I make Reva the puppeteer of Leia’s abduction again (which I’m not opposed to fwiw), the scene would feel like a non-sequitur to its surrounding scenes either way.

I do agree that it’s not there yet, but I think having him around this early, and affected by the past paralleled with Obi-Wan, does a lot in subliminally grounding the edit in their relationship guilt. It’s the strongest part of where the show’s narrative resolves IMO, so I want to keep it front of mind throughout, informing all of Vader and Kenobi’s decisions.

Also, love the way you’ve descored things, gives a very different feel. Your use of new music works well too (love bringing back the Fallen Order Inquistor theme), although I’d be careful about using music with themes that don’t match what’s on screen, for example, the scene of Ben digging up the sabers and Luke sleeping, while the music fits, I just know straight away that that’s the Guardians of the Whills theme.

That’s fair haha. I did try to make the themes fit as much as I could, for what it’s worth. The Whills theme, on top of sounding like Across the Stars meets Binary Sunset, I even figured had a name that was Jedi/Force relationship adjacent, which arguably and vaguely describes Obi-Wan’s Not Quite A Practicing Jedi state. It’s… a stretch lol, but I have been aware.


To be honest, I don’t expect to find perfect solutions, it’s all very give and take, but it’s not like the original material is not without its own logical flaws and missteps. (otherwise why edit) If I’m fixing some of those and replacing them with others, at least I’m expressing my own sensibilities and limits with that kind of thing. I want this be technically sound and seamless of course, but from a story perspective, I can let some things go if it’s more in line with the story I want to convey

Post
#1495631
Topic
OLD BEN: An Obi-Wan Kenobi Fan Edit [ON HOLD]
Time

INCREDIBLY ROUGH 30 min of what I was describing.

(pls hold off if you’re waiting for a full cut)

Temp music, some rogue frames, unfinished sound effects, particularly towards the end - but that’s the structure! I’m trying to re-center the whole thing on Obi-Wan/Anakin - everything progresses from their personal regrets about the relationship. I think I’ve more or less kept it very tightly focused on that emotional throughline.

I think it feels pretty good for the most part. I can start polishing it, finding the right music, filling in missing sfx, rethinking which shots/dialogue to use, etc. I plan on integrating Reva’s scolding by the GI (w/o the Imperial Senator’s daughter stuff) after this as a way to properly introduce her - but other than that - it should start being a little more straightforward as an edit. There’ll be little more freedom and wiggle room for creativity at least


Thoughts on some superficial presentation things:

Will probably reinstate the fade-in and change the sequencing of logos/titles? The abrupt opening thing (RO-inspired) in this draft was just my go at being if even a tiny bit more “Star Warsy” as per some people’s notes, but I think the fade-in works better for what I’m going for. And I realize some people giving notes are just wish listing their ideal edit regardless of what I’m trying to do, so I should try to parse stuff like that out better.

With the opening logos, I wanna try to do something even more different maybe? I liked Spence’s classic logos thing, but maybe I can take it a step further and even have some preliminary text, things like IN ASSOCIATION WITH DISNEY, A DEBORAH CHOW FILM, etc. or something, just to feel a bit more cinematic. Maybe place ALTAIAGFFA where the title used to be to maintain the short cold open. And of course I’m going make my own OLD BEN title graphic.

Post
#1495571
Topic
OLD BEN: An Obi-Wan Kenobi Fan Edit [ON HOLD]
Time

I did think about doing the shorter spiritual walkabout, and I think it would work, but it would skip over the character elements I liked. His conversations with Leia, truly stepping out from his exile to be a hero, really being confronted with what Anakin’s become…

Obi-Wan having an internal mind-adventure is cool for sure, but his actualization through more external factors has always been more compelling and feels more valuable to me in seeing Obi-Wan as human. Watching him struggle, his heartbreak, but also his determination and commitment to the children - I like what The Plot pulls out of him, and how it develops him - despite not really loving what it is or how it was initiated.

That’s the biggest difference for me between Obi-Wan’s material and Mortis’s. The latter feels far more philosophical and based in abstract ideas. It lends itself to Eddie’s spiritual presentation IMO because it mostly confronts the characters with those concepts. Some looking back at where they’ve been and where they’re going, but mostly through a new perspective on The Force that guid[ed/es] them. The nature of power, light and dark, universally.

Obi-Wan in OWK is dealing with a bit more tangible trauma and pain, rooted in his personal relationship(s) and often exacerbated by the emotionally heavy external incidence. Having it all be a vision quest feels like a cop out to me, personally. We could handwave with That’s [Probably Just] How The Force Works, sure, but it’s not what I saw in the show to start the edit in the first place.

There’s a cool framing device for a 3-in-1 prequel edit there though


Here’s a recent, perhaps controversial/contrived idea…

When trying the walkabout idea, I had Obi-Wan go to Daiyu from Tatooine without being prompted by a rescue request or vision or whatever. I figured this could work even with the Rescue Plot.

It fixes a few problems I was having with earlier iterations of the edit, namely being that:

  • Obi-Wan just happens to get a vision of Leia as soon as he’s off planet?

  • Even if he’s next seen on the Ring World or wherever to imply passage of time, Obi-Wan getting the vision as the next narrative beat is incredibly contrived, especially when he immediately goes straight to rescue her. Not five minutes ago he was leaving Luke because Owen says “Keep your distance” + Inquisitors On The Hunt = Luke Better Off Without Me. Going to save Leia, without convincing, caveats what could have been a simple mindset. Obi-Wan’s implied state of mind as too complex if not contradictory, especially for an edit that can’t verbally exposit any of those specific motivation changes.

  • And as far as being an Inciting Incident/Call To Action, the vision and immediate rush to Daiyu is barely, if even, a moment. The pacing was just weird.

Soo, Obi-Wan in this new context going to Daiyu is just Obi-Wan finding a new place to lay low, away from Luke, more within a crowd. (And can also symbolize a bit of Obi-Wan’s spiritual decay, that he finds himself in such a place of his own accord.) First and foremost, it does wonders for the pacing. We can now stew on Obi-Wan’s decision to leave Tatooine for much longer. The entry and first walk through Daiyu feels like a sequence about what comes of Obi-Wan’s choice to leave Luke behind. It’s bleak and purgatorial but now it’s a tone exercise with thematic purpose.

That works great - until this more shaky element that I’d need feedback on: Then, in some warehouse on Daiyu, he gets the vision of Leia being kidnapped. Instead of Obi-Wan dropping everything to go to Daiyu, the kidnappers are coming to him. (The planet he’s on already, technically.)

Now bare with me. While that might not sound any less contrived, for Obi-Wan’s character, it flows so much better. For the aforementioned pacing reasons, but also now Obi-Wan isn’t sensing across the galaxy and crossing said galaxy just for Leia. The vision in this context is symptomatic of coming to Daiyu rather than The Call To Action Moment itself. As far as the character arc, Obi-Wan stays established in the more reluctant, disillusioned stage of his journey, while still being pushed towards Leia. I also find that Ewan’s cautious performance and the next sequence of events (extorting help from Haja, gritty hand to hand brawl in a spice den, skulking around the seedy underworld, etc.) actually fit better here than after the very Jedi-like decision to go after Leia

Basically, Obi-Wan making such a big step to leave for Leia doesn’t track as well for an Obi-Wan that thought Luke needed to be left alone. This way, it’s not even a full step he takes willingly. It flows better from the Tatooine opening.

Is it a huge coincidence? Probably? But it always would have been without Reva’s orchestration anyway. At least this way, Obi-Wan’s arc stays clear in its initial acts. Besides, Daiyu as a criminal hub can handwave some of the coincidence maybe?

I’ll post a clip later, but that’s where I’m at with it currently. No Reva Orchestration yet.

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#1495059
Topic
OLD BEN: An Obi-Wan Kenobi Fan Edit [ON HOLD]
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I feel like trying to share all my thoughts here is going to get confusing haha

As far as that goes, it’s still like that in the edit, but I am experimenting with a lot of alt branches. Many of them you guys don’t see because it would, like I said, be confusing about what’s actually in this. The Reva idea is just one I’m toying with right now to fix the current problems I have. But I would not have brought it up if it wasn’t being discussed in the thread.

Unless I’ve posted an explicit update to the cutlist or have an accompanying clip to a pitch I feel strongly about, the edit hasn’t really changed.

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#1495037
Topic
OLD BEN: An Obi-Wan Kenobi Fan Edit [ON HOLD]
Time

FWIW, I’ve been able to avoid doing it so far, but I’m also not too hot on the edit at the moment, possibly because of it. To me, the lack of Reva as a primary antagonist for the first act only aggravates how pointless the action-oriented narrative feels. It’s just… stuff, happening. Obi-Wan is rescuing the princess, but why should we care if we know they’re both fine? Who were those these kidnappers anyway?

I have the character-driven opening and I know my character-driven endpoint, but the whole middle act is just a pointless adventure. Without an antagonist and their own [enigmatic] motivations to give any of it meaning, it’s just a really long stretch of “film” about nothing. That’s the opposite of what I wanted to accomplish here. The tonal exercise is one thing, but it needs to be in service of a narrative that even demands it.


To be more specific about what I actually intend when I talk about reinstating Reva’s orchestration, it’s more as a tool for Vader’s character, who I’d been tinkering with introducing earlier to ground the story more in Obi/Ani.

EARLY VADER TEST

And then maybe Reva calls, Vader dangles the Grand Inquisitor carrot, and now earlier on, she has a motivation for us to latch onto as she’s ambitiously on her prowl. But it’s now contextualized as an extension of Vader’s will and his personal feelings, which provides at least the illusion that Vader and Obi-Wan are the centered heart of everything we follow.

She eventually has her own true motivations revealed, but as far as taking us through a “pointless” second act - Vader’s presence and all the drama that teases would be more tangibly present than just implied upper management.


You all probably think I’m trying too hard, making up problems for perfectly fine solutions, 😓 but this kind of creative exercise is what’s fun for me. I hope it’s not pretentious or arrogant or anything, but I’m inspired to edit at all when I can do something really different from the source material, really transform it n’ stuff. I love FanFixes, but I don’t think I can offer anything on that front that so many of you can or already have. Spence’s Edit for example is already my ideal realization of this show into a movie IMO. I’m not trying to “compete” or anything, I’m just messing around with my own sensibilities or inspirations.

That said, I’m definitely taking a break right now. Not for lack of ideas or really being in a bind, just general burnt-outedness on the stuff I have to do to implement each idea. I’ll be back soon though

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#1494640
Topic
OLD BEN: An Obi-Wan Kenobi Fan Edit [ON HOLD]
Time

I was actually feeling the same thing tbh! I think like most of my edit ideas I start from Wouldn’t It Be Cool If and I’ll eventually start reeling it back after I realize it wouldn’t fully work the way I want it to.


If anyone hasn’t noticed, I’m ON HOLD for now. On top of the Leia thing, a lot of my tinkering so far has been just that; tinkering. im in this, perhaps selfishly, more for the creative process than actually getting a final edit

I would still like to do a full edit, but as I’ve gone along recently, after a certain point, I felt like I was just going through the motions of the narrative too close to as originally presented. And since I want to use the opening’s tone as a guide, the story remaining action-adventure oriented hasn’t been inspiring me. (Skipping Leia’s intro only exacerbates it even).

I wanted to take a step back and rethink my approach to the material, and find a more cerebral/emotional throughline than just The Rescue. I also don’t feel in great company with people that want less Reva, or less Leia - no offense to anyone that describes for less toxic reasons - that’s been putting me off it too.

Right now, I’m thinking about overhauling to introduce Vader earlier to ground the narrative in the more interpersonal chess game. Otherwise, it’s just Obi-Wan versus some baddies, until it isn’t. This most likely involves reinstating Reva’s orchestration (sorry to anyone that hates that) but idk, the sparse nature of the tone I’m going for feels shallow without tangible driving forces established in some way.