I’ve always felt like some of the other stuff in this thread re: TLJ’s script shortcomings and the [unintended] thematic knock-ons are consistent to TFA, not necessarily subversive.
I didn’t want to get into it really, but everything with regard to TLJ positing something about the Force that is incongruous to the OT – the Rey “having all she needs” bit as a dismissal of the OT’s themes – I see where people are coming from there, but The Force Awakens introduces OT iconography as legible artifacts to the characters in the world.
Rey not only knows history (the OT plot), she puts on a Rebel helmet like she’s play acting the story, she can recognize the Skywalker lightsaber on sight, and engages with Han Solo and the idea of Luke Skywalker like a fan girl. For me, Rey goes into TLJ knowing Luke lifted rocks, and has even heard the lessons he learned from Yoda because as per JJ she’s basically “seen” Star Wars.
TLJ does it what it does, however you feel about it, off of that. It’s consistent to that. It’s messy as hell, obviously, but it’s not as brazen or bold as it gets credit for honestly. It’s thoroughly about reinforcing Star Wars ass Star Wars. It just does something mildly interesting with TFA’s margins and context as opposed to ignoring it.
I’ll go a step further and say it’s less cynical about its meta by being character-driven too. The characters are being challenged on their expectations (which are, granted, ours), but as a gesture towards the universe having some kind of material reality and tangible consequence.
Channel72 said:
The most charitable interpretation I can come up with is Rian Johnson was going for something along the lines of a “Wizard of Oz” type message, where it turns out the Scarecrow and Cowardly Lion had all the brains or courage they needed all along, and just needed to believe in themselves to access it. Something like that. That is sort of compatible with what happens with Rey’s journey of self-discovery, where she sort of self-learns the Force. There’s nothing inherently wrong with a message like that, but it’s not a fit for Star Wars and what was established before, where the Force requires a mentor to learn and is already part of a pre-packaged, venerated mythology.
For me, it’s consistent to the OT in that Luke’s power was always himself, his love of his friends, what he would see in his father - not his training. I think the path to the Force clearly has many different forks either way, otherwise what even is “the Dark Side”? and what is Luke even doing through ANH into Empire if not imperfectly wielding the Force with little to no training? He doesn’t have mastery of himself or his emotions when he’s doing backflips on Dagobah. In the arc of his “training”, that movie ends with him failing to complete it.
It’s hippie cosmology, not literally muscles to work out. Size matters not
To my previous point, Rey has aspired to and used Luke as an example presumably all her life anyway. Idk, it’s hardly anything to me, the lesser of TLJ’s problems.