NFBisms

Superweapon VII said:

JadedSkywalker said:

I liked that the Callista romance went nowhere. The Akanah thing was a total waste of time. The Black Fleet trilogy was garbage.

Though I actually like 2 of the 3 Callista trilogy novels.

I used to be a Luke/Callista shipper. But that’s because I was a hormonal teenager when I read Children of the Jedi, which was the first SW story I consumed in any medium which depicted Luke as a person capable of experiencing romantic/sexual feelings more intense than chaste puppy love. When I got around to reading the entire Callista Trilogy in my twenties, my investment in their relationship cooled significantly. And once I read the Hand of Thrawn Duology, I was fully aboard the Luke/Mara train.

My memories of the Black Fleet Crisis Trilogy aren’t sharp. I remember thinking it would’ve better if the B-plot with Lando had tied into the A-plot somehow instead of just being a diversionary side story.

I always felt like Luke proposing marriage to Mara came out of nowhere for me, because it felt like they had just started making breakthroughs to even openly appreciating one another in the caves. Marriage??

But beyond that, I honestly really liked Gaeriel from Truce At Bakura best for Luke, but not even in Truce at Bakura. I thought the Before Sunset-ing he and Gaeriel kinda had going on in the Corellian Trilogy was the most compelling Luke’s romantic life ever was for me. Instead of a tacked on thing, it felt intentionally exploratory for Luke - how time had passed, how at a distance his Jedi stuff could keep him from even his closest friends and family. In ROTJ he’s poised to be such a lonely figure, the one guy entrusted to be the first of a new. The Corellian trilogy has a fun framing of the Bakura romance in that context, where Luke fresh on the path of that future finds a somewhat youthful limerence before the responsibility really takes off. And now, after all that responsibility and life lived, they find each other again. Things have changed so much but right now, are much the same. It had a spark idk!

Luke and Mara I think makes sense on paper (they are books after all), or at least conceptually had kind of a spark (tough girl and soft boy, enemies-to-lovers etc) but I think Mara never fully reads as convincingly tough, and Luke reads as too soft. So the dynamic doesn’t even end up that fun – they’re never actually enemies, nor opposites to really attract, yet no innate similarity in personality or worldview. It’s all just history. They “make a good team” but there is no natural, inherent chemistry to really sell that. You could write any two force users to have a connection with another. Vision of the Future feels like such a long journey for them to discover that they can be good friends. But not romantic life partners.

The Jedi ain’t even that serious about the no attachments thing if we take the text(s) seriously and really look at how the Jedi treat it. What are the consequences, really, of a Jedi having attachments? It’s having a 100 rules knowing everyone will break at least 1, and everyone will have their 1. Where it breaks for the few, you can massage with extra discipline and targeted tutelage, but the rule keeps the others in line. And ultimately, there’s really nothing the council can do either way. It’s really an aspirational standard, not requisite. Something to seek, lifelong, not attain. That’s a pretty reasonable takeaway from what is intended with the depiction IMO.

In canon and EU lore, prequel era Jedi are breaking the rule all the time to little or no consequence. You become a librarian or farmer Jedi, I guess? They don’t even want people leaving really – though even that is allowed to happen.

And outside the realm of breaking rules, it’s also just true that the Jedi have comradery with one another - bonds and friendships. Amongst themselves, but then even with senators, or people they serve. Yoda and Mace can have a soft spot for even a former Jedi like Dooku as a friend at the start of AOTC, and never flinch in discussions of Obi-Wan and Anakin’s own bond. They’re surely aware of their own. It’s not hypocrisy under the lens presented above.

None of this has to exclude material critiques of the Jedi, or that their rules played a role in Anakin’s fall! Because to Anakin, there was personal consequence - his own desire to be accepted by them, to be recognized by them. That is selfish, and centers the Jedi path as hierarchical. His love for Padme is as forbidden as it can allow him to become a true blue Jedi, the “possessive love” often discussed doesn’t actually emerge until after he’s committed to the dark path.

If the Jedi Order as a concept are being dissected by the prequels, I think looking at “repression”, religion, or cultish dogma is the wrong conversation. There’s more going on re: establishment ineffectuality and pedagogy.

stuff like the HK quest was right to have been cut from KOTOR 2 anyway

Do you really think within a genre certain themes and topics become verboten? Whatever inspires or influences the shape of a story comes from anywhere, whether from other works or reality. It’s a natural process and isn’t even bold for Star Wars as a space opera. There are no rules!

Whether or not it amounts to anything in your reception, isn’t even a part of that larger discussion

We landed on liberal complacency giving way to fascism being in there, yeah. (New Left vs Alt Right)

I thought it was hard to take seriously because it’s not coherently demonstrated, and you made a good point how it can still be held to its politics despite that.

But to just put it out there, and to my point about intentionality, a lot of that materially lives in scenes deleted from the final cut of TFA. Crucially, what we’re left with is broad enough to not really pin down specifically, especially in a contemporaneous moment where Obama was still president, with these ideas still functioning identically as narrative tropes. You could avoid the themes - I feel that these movies wanted you to - if not, so that you could project whatever you want onto them.

Maybe it’s all aged a little more potently in 2025 though, sure! I was going to talk about TLJ having an inert war profiteering bit, but in conversation with a more thematically salient TFA, there is something there (if not only about literal war materiel) about the nature of these political conflicts.

Eh, idk about that. If anything you can argue its depiction in TLJ alone lands on being didactic against it. That stuff isn’t politics though, nor has that necessarily been a conversation re: woke in Star Wars

Not gonna lie, I genuinely still don’t get it! The ST are extremely, and almost outright intentionally, apolitical movies with genuinely nothing to offer on that front. And I like TLJ! Andor, Acolyte, sure. But The Last Jedi?

Kinda! V2 of “Episode 13” still has one change from the previous vers I’ve been meaning to revert. But once I do one more pass I’ll make an “official” post about it. But yeah V2s are provisionally up

oh ok yeah! 😃 responding more to mocata a page back

See this is the stuff that can be hard to discuss in good faith if you actually want to believe that. Anakin says that when literally all Palpatine has said is “unlimited power~”

Everything else is understandbly muddled / up for interpretation but this one is pretty straightforward as an almost filler line, emotional reaction. If anything, in the read that he’s been played - he’d still be buying the trick!

nah

Fair enough, doesn’t necessarily exclude the prior read though. I certainly understand where Anakin being tricked becomes such a popular perception.

Sure, but we should also note that Palpatine never outright says he knows how to do what Plagueis did. Even when the mask initially drops, the verbiage is about “having a complete view of the Force” and “using his knowledge,” which is consistent to how he continues to discuss the topic post-Mace Murder, where he emphasizes discovery. It’s an academic seduction almost; forbidden research that Anakin won’t get from Jedi teachings.

The Force is still a great mystery, but maybe a practitioner as “powerful” as Anakin could unlock it if only he had access to all of that knowledge~. That is the function of his being gassed up, playing off of the allure of knowing more about the Force than the Jedi would tell you. It’s not meant to be a direct transaction, tit for tat heel turn.

I think Anakin still has more agency in that than just being duped.

I don’t think I ever articulated it better than I did in this conversation with Channel72 (including the next few replies)

It doesn’t excuse any of the bad stuff but I do think people tend to project a lack of agency onto his arc. So many of us have been working backwards from the grandfathered critiques of the prequels’ stupid plot, and not really engaging with where it is at least trying to interplay with the themes of the OT. (I also think this understanding is entirely consistent to The Clone Wars Anakin!)

A lot of this stuff “works” better in conversation with the OT, exactly as movies made decades after. Of course they fail to complete the fabled saga where Star Wars (1977) is a fourth installment, but as idiosyncratic Lucas joints commenting on them, they are fascinating to dissect. Don’t let anyone try to squash that curiosity!

Anakin Skywalker was not manipulated 🤓

Vladius said:

NFBisms said:

Vladius said:
I think it has some real life consequences as well but I won’t get into that.

Always amused by the chip on your shoulder about this topic, but I do think this would be interesting to hear!

That’s why I won’t talk about it. You can probably infer if you’ve already read all my other posts for your amusement.

I mean, I am being sincere here. I think if there’s something genuinely important to you here and not just kind of an annoyance with people you could just ignore, that’s a real discussion worth starting IMO

Vladius said:
I think it has some real life consequences as well but I won’t get into that.

Always amused by the chip on your shoulder about this topic, but I do think this would be interesting to hear!

Love that henzINNIT; that’s what I’ll go with for now.

Speaking of. A cut of Episode 13: Single Reactor Ignition (V2) is now up in the same folder you can find V1!

When it’s all done, I’ll switch out the versions (V1 their own archived folder) and export the episodes out as MKVs with subs and metadata. I will actually be working on episode 15 this week, since I’m mostly happy with episode 14 as is, and 15 will have the next most changes from V1 in the set.

Anyway, as for 13, here are the broad changes from V1:

• New recap
• Ferrix anvil // date cards
• Reinstated extended sequence of Krennic’s shuttle approaching Lah’mu
• Cut the moment where Cassian looks on at Jyn in wonder as she beats up the stormtroopers
• Some foley polish
• Minor scoring differences. I opted to stick close to what I’ve done already though. Partly out of laziness, but mostly to preserve what this edit “is” as a unique artifact I guess. Since there are others starting to do their own thing with the same concept.
• Thanks to @Chase Adams, alien subtitles have been updated to match Andor’s
  

VERSION 2 UPDATE

Finally had some time over the past few weeks to whittle away at this. I think I won’t end up changing too too much from V1 - most of the changes will probably be in the final episode.

Here’s a quick test of the first 10ish minutes of “episode 13”

(I will probably change the title from “Jedha” to something else. Pitches welcome)

(also will be more polished on release obv)

Differences in this clip from v1:

• New quick and dirty recap of what’s important from the official last arc of season 2
• Ferrix anvil // date cards
• Reinstated extended sequence of Krennic’s shuttle approaching Lah’mu
• Some new scoring for the transition to BBY 1

Other than that, you’ll notice I didn’t really change too much from V1. Maybe I’m too attached to what I’ve done?

Something I am kind of trying to figure out is what date to actually put onto those new date cards. Jyn in the movie itself does say it was 15 years since she last saw her father. But canonically, as per StarWars dot com and Wookieepedia, the Lah’mu sequence takes place in 13 BBY. The math doesn’t work out and that doesn’t even account for whether I am counting from 1 BBY, which apparently is the correct date of Rogue One, not 0 BBY. It’s a bit confusing so I opted for taking Jyn’s word for it and adhering to all of this still being BBY 1.

Here’s a clip of the new score for Jyn’s entrance into Yavin after Wobani

Again, nothing changed on Wobani from V1, but I tried to pad the Yavin sequence out a little bit more by including some footage from one of the initial teasers, to squeeze in the new motif.

Oh I wasn’t trying to shut down the idea, just discussing! Ultimately it’s up to Eddie, I forget I’m also working on this sometimes LOL.

I think I actually do have some issues with Gilroy in Andor season 2 not quite actually building to Rogue One thematically (he avoided watching it IIRC!) in more than just this way, which is where my POV comes from. But I do get where you are coming from. Vader as this almost intangible, immaterial representation of fascism for Krennic to hit the wall on, is a cool idea!

I just like the more mechanical, institutional way it comes back around to everyone all the same more - rather than evil escalating up to totem pole. The banality of it, how human it all is, is part of what’s always made the imperial stuff in Andor compelling.

Broom Kid said:
I think cutting him period is probably going too far. Krennic bullying Dedra pays off in the way he ends up becoming just like her when he butts up against that same fascist ceiling in Rogue One. She overreaches and winds up getting put in her place by both Partagaz and then Krennic. Krennic overreaches and gets chumped by both Tarkin, and then Vader. I get the general instinct, but I also feel like Gilroy is looking at Rogue One (and was looking at it when he got called in to fix it in the first place) as he’s making Andor and knows what it is he’s both leading into and also mirroring in subtle ways as he builds out his arcs.

Cutting Vader for the sake of cutting him to make Rogue One feel more like Andor feels, to me, like a short-circuiting of what Andor was doing in the first place by trying to build TO Rogue One.

I disagree and I think my reasoning is in your reasoning - Dedra is never actually put in her place by Partagaz directly, so there is no real parallelism in having there be a “both Tarkin, and then Vader” for Krennic to rub up against. It’s not even really intuitive for there to be two representations of a fascist ceiling per character. Tarkin is more than enough.

I feel like it breaks down more like this: Partagaz is explicitly in Dedra’s corner for pretty much all of the show, and he only throws her under the bus off-screen as a means of self preservation. Krennic is then in his corner, but states he can’t protect him, which comes to bear for Partagaz after Heert’s failure.

[Dedra -> Partagaz -> Krennic -> Tarkin] works well enough, cleaner I think than having Vader in there for no real reason. Vader isn’t contending with bureaucracy / careerism / survival in the way those characters are, it’s not actually a compelling thematic bit to add him into the mix; he’s just annoyed.

these guys are pretty classic SW bickerers; the thesis of with the right leadership (Leia) the himbos (Luke and Han) can achieve real rebellion is all there

RE: V2, I am sorting through every idea I’ve been pitched, and working through how I want to tackle it all at the moment. Getting a feel for the S2 soundtrack, etc. To be honest, I have a lot going on IRL right now and haven’t had a day off since last Friday - but I have some time this weekend into Monday to get really down to it.

I think where I’m at right now, as I’ve ever been, is to stay mostly conservative about the film. The novelty of the Andor score on it is the extent of my ambition here - I’m not entirely trying to “fix” it outside that concept - with the few exceptions (Vader/Krennic scene, Ponda Baba, etc) being trivial enough to remove and non-transformative to the narrative/structure. We’ll see what else as I get through it. I will address some more specific suggestions in later posts when I have the time.

But yeah, on top of some new season 2 music, there will be some presentation changes. I am planning on including the Ferrix anvil/BBY title cards. I will be editing a new recap at the top of “Jedha”.

I think eventually I’m going to just export the movie without any of the music, so that people can do the more radical work they’re looking for themselves though!

You could probably DM me on Fanedit.org? I’ve been getting a lot of requests on there from new accounts.

Literally what Nemik’s manifesto is about is contextualizing it all as The Fight