NFBisms

^Thank you! I’ll work on those. I’m really glad you actually gave feedback!

For the miswire jokes thing, I remember the mindset I was in when cutting that, and I think it’s because I didn’t want Anakin and Obi Wan to have any hint of animosity in the opening. I wasn’t sure if someone was going to read that scene as Anakin being serious or sarcastic - I didn’t want anyone to think Anakin took something like that so personally. And I also don’t know if there’s enough in the film that characterizes Anakin’s humor as doing bits. It’s a little more innocuous and traditionally friendly for Anakin just to go straight to being defensive of R2, rather than snark on the offensive. I might put it back after thinking about it more.

In the opera, I think cutting straight to “is it possible to learn this power” is too abrupt, and makes the Darth Plagueis story much less of a story. It’s weird to have Palpatine build up this tragedy and then it end up just being “There was a guy who could save people from death. The end.” And if you just meant to switch out “he could actually…?” with it, you get rid of “Not from a Jedi”, which is the beat I feel like the scene should end on. Besides, it’s not a huge thing to have Anakin ask as if to make sure he heard something right.

LordRorek said:
0:9:26 - 0:9:55
I like what you did here with the elevator and R2 burning the droids although I feel that cutting back and forth between the two happens a little too much thus making it kinda distracting. What I would suggest is that after you have R2 fix the elevator cut to the elevator segment and then after Anakin and Obi-Wan’s little banter about R2 you cut to R2 getting picked up and burning the droids. I feel it would be less distracting and the comedic timing would work better overall.

I guess it’s just me, but I rather like the cutting back and forth; the juxtaposition of R2 having a violent-ish adventure as Obi Wan and Anakin are literally just having an elevator chat, works better to me than if we watch one happen then the other. It’s quick, abrupt, and happens a lot, but I think that’s what adds to the humor. But that is a device used in editing for comedy movies, so I can see how it’s distracting in the context of a movie like this. Idk.

0:13:03 - 0:13:05
I like what you did here having Anakin in silent contemplation rather than saying “Then his fate will be the same as ours.” but it looks a little weird. I would suggest holding on his face then using the part where he looks up from Obi-wan toward Palpatine ( 0:13:01 - 0:13:02 ) but reverse it so it looks like he is looking down at Obi-wan.

Thanks for this! I’ve been trying to break how I was going to fix this scene, and I can’t believe I didn’t think of reversing the previous shot! I’ve changed it quickly in between studying lol. Thank you! It really helps to have more than my pair of eyes on the edit.

0:25:21 - 0:25:28
Excellent editing here I love the dialog changes but the music gets a little loud towards the end to the point where I can hardly hear Palpatine say “and you saved my life.”.

I had “and you saved my life” at a higher volume in an earlier cut, but the disparity between it and “you fought many battles…” was too noticeable to a few people who had previewed. The next few cuts were then too quiet, and I guess I’m still ironing out what the perfect level for that line is. Have to find that middle ground.

0:53:07 - 0:53:10
The only thing I don’t like about this scene is that you suddenly cut to Grievous mid-fall without showing him jumping off the platform.

This doesn’t bother me too much. He was actually force pushed into a wall by Obi Wan after their stare-down and slid/fell down into the shot you see in my cut. The fact that you thought he jumped himself is probably what I was going for.

1:03:18 - 1:03:19
I understand why you cut out the whole spin jump Palpatine does but it feels like something has been removed when I watch it so even though its kinda silly I would keep it.

That’s fair. To me, with the spin, it feels like the Jedi are too slow to react. Without one extra shot, it’s more of a surprise attack. So it was either keeping in the spin shot, or the shot of him landing - and since the shot of him landing is not only less silly, but also consistent with the next shot, I decided to use that one. I hoped people assumed he just jumped forward.

1:04:27 - 1:05:38
I saw what you were going for but I feel the transition of Palpatine’s face from normal to scarred without an explanation is a little jarring and would be kinda confusing to first-time viewers. I also feel that Anakin should say “What have I done?” because without that it makes Palpatine’s next statement sound like half a conversation to me.

This is actually from Hal 9000’s edit, and I think it’s fine tbh. It would be kind of confusing to the hypothetical first time viewer, but I don’t know how much. There are alot of things that go unexplained in Star Wars, and this is one of those things that’s easier to assume correctly; that that’s his “true form” or whatever. The “or whatever” part allows for some imagination on the part of the viewer anyway.

As for “what have I done”, I do think it’s better for Anakin to not be so indecisive. He knows what he did, he chose to do it. Showing immediate regret makes the foundation in which he made the decision come off as a little shaky. Like, “I did this, but I didn’t really want to?” Hayden’s face says enough about how “hard” it was to do, but I wanted to draw attention away from him thinking it was the “wrong” thing to do. And I know I’ve said Anakin in my cut doesn’t think he’s in the moral right as Darth Vader, but all that means is that he hasn’t deluded himself into thinking he’s “the hero” or he’s doing good things. He knows he’s doing bad things, but to him, the ends justify the means.

“You’re fulfilling your destiny…” isn’t definitively an answer to a question either. It’s just a statement, and that Palps says it on his own, kind of paints him as such a confident bastard; despite Anakin not saying anything one way or another, he gets up and starts talking like he has no doubts Anakin will join him.

1:05:38 - 1:06:40
I like this scene although I would have at least a mention of Padme being the reason why he pledges himself to Darth Sidious and about them needing to work together to discover the secret to life because it feels a little too quick and I think a first time viewer would be left wondering “why is he becoming his apprentice now? isn’t there another options?”. I also feel cutting to Yoda in this scene is a little distracting, it should focus entirely on Anakin and Palpatine.

Padme isn’t the only reason he pledges himself, so I didn’t want to draw too much attention to her as the primary reason. Also, Palpatine admitting that he doesn’t know how to save Padme when Anakin makes it clear that’s his motivation is… well. That sentence speaks for itself. Why would Anakin still be listening at this point?

So while there’s no definitive answer verbally spoken about why he’s pledging himself, I trust my audience to understand how set up and pay off works. As for Yoda, I might remove it if more people find it unnecessary.

1:30:45 - 1:30:46
There’s a weird music change at this point that was a little distracting.

I thought the music surprisingly flowed from one note to the next despite my cutting, but I did think the background lava explosion sfx just kind of abruptly stops; is that what you meant? If that’s the case, I’m definitely still trying to work that out. Maybe by having the sound fade out a little sooner before the next cut? But that might be more jarring.

1:31:16 - 1:31:38
I like how you cut out a lot of the cheesy dialog here but it feels a little clunky and disjointed. Here is how I feel it could be improved.

Anakin “To my new empire.”.

Obi-Wan “Your new empire? Anakin, my allegiance is to the republic!”

Anakin “If you’re not with me then you’re my enemy.”

Obi-Wan “I will do what I must.”

Anakin “You will try.”

I feel this removes most of the cheesy dialog while still feeling like a complete conversation.

1:35:30 - 1:35:39
I would have included Anakin saying “This is the end for you.” I just feel Anakin is a little too quiet throughout the fight. Obi-Wan at least got “I have failed you Anakin.” so I feel Anakin should have at least a little dialog. Also, I feel Obi-Wan should say the full “I have failed you Anakin, I have failed you.” because I feel it cuts away a little too quickly when you shorten it.

For me, this scene is clunky no matter how you spin it. If it sounds like a half a conversation in my edit though, that’s almost the point. Anakin doesn’t want to talk.

This goes back to how I feel Anakin should be acting in lieu of the set up. Like I said, he hasn’t deluded himself into thinking he’s doing the morally righteous good thing, he’s acting on “the ends justify the means.” He’s not corrupted by the dark side or is yearning to increase his power in the force - the dark side allows him to do what needs to be done for his idea of a galaxy under law and order, to keep Padme safe. Its philosophy tells him it’s okay to do these things and to feel this way. So he’s not proud of himself or the things he’s done - but he has to do them. To me, his pre-duel taunts against Obi Wan lean too closely to the original where he feels proud to be a sith, and has deluded himself into thinking the jedi are evil, including Obi Wan.

I think there isn’t enough to support the idea that in the time Anakin and Obi Wan are separated, he turns fully against his best friend. Before, you have the justification of “oh the dark side corrupted him” or “oh they were never really friends”, but those are both contrary to the idea of my edit. They’re really only enemies by circumstance and what Anakin’s done at this point; I don’t think Anakin should have any real ill will against Obi Wan. By leaving “if you’re not with me…” hanging, and silence from Anakin there onwards, it’s almost like Anakin is giving Obi Wan a quick out. But Obi Wan obviously doesn’t want to back down, so Anakin does he must - which is try to kill him. From there, Anakin is “too quiet” because in my interpretation of the characters, I do believe that any verbal engagement between the two would go differently than it did in the theatrical. Obi Wan could talk sense (or at the very least regret enough to stop) into Anakin, because from Anakin’s POV, he doesn’t believe the Jedi are actually evil.

When Obi Wan says “I have failed you…”, they’ve stopped fighting and it’s his chance to reach out to Anakin to possibly bring him back with a conversation. I think it might have worked if Anakin engaged back, and I think Anakin kind of knows that. He stays silent and willfully ignores him to avoid his own motivations becoming clouded. He doesn’t need to hear something that might invalidate all the things he’s done and what he’s doing. This all has to be for something, but he doesn’t trust himself not to fall back into the light with a few words from a friend. The explicit “This is the end for you, my master” might say the same thing about Anakin willfully tuning out Obi Wan, but it feels too much, again, like Anakin is playing the part of someone who wants to do this. I think his silence works better towards my end goals and is vague enough to allow for other interpretations: like he doesn’t want to humanize his target by talking because the human would be his best friend.

1:36:00 - 1:36:10
I’m a little torn as to whether or not to include Anakin’s “underestimate my power” line but I think that you should have focused on Anakin’s face before Obi-Wan says “Don’t try it” because to me Obi-Wan can just tell what Anakin is thinking by the look on his face but if he just says it without focusing on Anakin’s face first, it looks a little weird.

I had a slowed down shot of Anakin’s face there in an earlier cut, but it looks even weirder. I took the lesser of two weirds, because I really don’t want “underestimate my power.”

1:36:15 - 1:37:22
Now I want to say that of all the things you changed removing the majority of Obi-Wan’s speech was my least favorite. I know you’re trying to make this more personal and less about the prophecy but I feel that this entire speech is completely personal because in my mind this speech is two things.

1. Obi-Wan is saying “You were my brother, You were the greatest of us, and you betrayed us all.” this is basically Obi-Wan telling Anakin how disappointed he is that he has fallen so low and how much Obi-Wan failed him.

2. This is the point from Obi-Wan’s point of view where Anakin “died”. So I consider this speech in a way to be Obi-Wan’s eulogy for Anakin Skywalker who was in his words “The best star pilot in the galaxy, a cunning warrior, and he was a good friend.”.

Good points, and I might put it back in.

1:43:36 - 1:43:55
I see what you were gong for here but I would put a pause between what the emperor saying “You killed her” and Vader’s reaction and put Padme’s death during said pause so that we can see Vader’s reaction on screen. Seeing his reaction to this news is one of the highlights of ROTS for me, so I would hate to see it cut.

I’ll see what I can do. I remember putting Padme’s death where it was because I felt the shot went by too fast before or after Vader’s initial reaction.

The only other thing I feel should be included in this edit is this deleted scene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJUVHSBy9JM but remove Grevious and Shok Te so they can meet him on the bridge. Because I feel this scene adds some levity to the film and the banter gives off that brothers vibe you’re going for.

I’d love to, but I really don’t know where I’d put it or how I’d even make the scene work without Grevious.

…

Anyway, thank you so much for actually giving feedback! It really helps out. And I do love the poster. I really want to leave it up to people to vote, but I might just have to pick one myself when I’m done. It might be yours. It has the font Disney has been using for their new stuff and the TLJ red logo - for “The New Canon Cut,” it fits nicely.

It’s funny because that scene in my edit is almost half the duration of the original, if we count from the moment the first lightsaber slices a droid to when they deactivate the lightsabers. (27 seconds vs 14 seconds). I guess I could try to make that shorter, I just don’t know where.

If you want to know where the edits are in the rest of the intro up to Grevious’s first appearance:

• I changed “Master” to “Obi Wan”
• Cut “crawling with buzz droids”
• Added “General Skywalker, ready to engage” from a clone as they get into position
• “I’m gonna go help him out” exhange cut
• Cut “Missiles!”
• Cut “Buzz droids…”
• Cut Obi Wan recapping the mission before “we’re running out of tricks here.”
• Cut “Hold your fire, you’re not helping” and “You’re right, bad idea” exchange
• Cut Obi Wan telling Anakin to go on without him and “Not leaving without you, master”
• Cut “You’re going to get us both killed” from Obi Wan
• Replaced R2 scream with more neutral R2 noises
• Cut “The shields are still up!” exhange
• Cut Obi Wan leap out of fighter
• Cut R2 leap from fighter
• Silenced droids
• Cut extra shots of them just slicing droids
• Cut “I sense Count Dooku”
• Cut “Stay with the ship” exchange with R2
• Cut “Just as Count Dooku predicted” from Grevious

It’s at this point most people check out, because I kept in (an edited down version of, at least) the elevator sequence and even added more banter between O/A.

EDIT: did you know that if accidentally double click the post button, it posts twice

I really like that! I might actually use some version of that for a new crawl when I get back to editing.

So, I’m going to stop working at this for a bit. Temporarily. I’ve already been working on it less and less, but as the semester at college is coming to a close, and finals week is nearing, I’ve decided to put it on hold for now. So no new updates for a while. Not that there were a lot anyway.

That said, I do have a very unfinished rough cut with the newest (pending) changes and ideas. So if anyone wants to preview this latest mockup version, hmu. i live for feedback btw

And honestly, I do think he knew that. It’s just that no one wanted to do the prequels for him, because this was when everyone still thought he was a genius - Spielberg and whoever else didn’t want to “ruin his vision”, or deal with the pressure that would come with doing them.

We can be cynical about it and theorize no one wanted to do it because maybe his initial treatments of the prequels were terrible or whatever, but I don’t think anything about those movies and its ideas ended up seeming un-doable by anyone. You definitely could have made something great out of a lot of thematic stuff there. They still worked to some fraction of an extent, despite of what you think of those films. People then just had faith (a little too much) in him, or just didn’t want to help him.

So I think characterizing him as this narcissistic crazy guy is a little wrong. He’s been very open about his insecurities about this “movie for 12 year olds” he made in 1977. It’s why he continued tampering with it long after they were released in theatres.

I don’t even think his ideas are too far out there, he’s actually responsible for reigning in/veto-ing the more out there ideas that never made it into the prequels and Clone Wars animated series. So we know he has/had a somewhat specific vision (he’s not just doing whatever the hell he feels like) - he just needs to organize them, or get someone to organize them for him, and learn that some things - like the OT - were fine and don’t need to be fixed.

Stuff like “he hates his fans” is just self-victimizing and immature, and is only ever true when you start saying stuff like that to antagonize him. I mean no disrespect to anyone who genuinely believes he was out to get them by not releasing the OOT, but I do hope they get some perspective.

I did say “interesting”, not right. xP

Here is where he talks about it, actually, and the interesting order in which he showed his friend:
https://youtu.be/ijspNzliBWk?t=4m36s

They start talking about stuff that’s wrong with the special editions after that segment of the conversation as a bonus for you guys btw.

Sam Witwer had a really interesting order (for kids at least), and it went TCW, ANH, ESB, ROTS, ROTJ.

Anakin would be their hero. When they see what’d happened to the galaxy and that Darth Vader killed him in ANH… Finding out that they’re one in the same in ESB would blow their minds even more than it did for any of us. They would have actually known Anakin and not just heard about what a great guy he was from Obi Wan. You also eliminate 2 out of the 3 prequels.

You’re right, I’m sorry. I didn’t realize that term held as much negative weight as calling others stupid or inferior. But it does apparently. So I apologize for offending you. I just assumed we were all a little thicker skinned, since we seem to be fine dishing it out. I was also calling myself a “fanboy” to be fair.

I am sorry, hopefully no one misconstrues me as disrespecting them.

Mocata said:

Sure I was one of those kids. Kids are stupid. I saw the whole prequel trilogy in theatres and didn’t have a lot of complaints at the time. We hit each other with sticks after the screening, re-enacting TPM after seeing the climactic duel. It’s embarrassing but I was one of those ROTS fans when it came out. But people change and we grow up, some later than others. While something like The Lord of the Rings got better when rewatching, cementing its status as a high point for the genre, the prequel DVDs gathered dust and were eventually cleared out. I’m not being critical just as an OT fan, but as a film fan. All the lofty ideas can’t save them from becoming tedious and badly written.

If you look at it all as one whole, you have to admit that only certain things stick. Is Podracing still a thing? The Clone Wars might not have been so popular without all those TV episodes lifting it up. They made TFA the way it is exactly because of those ‘general audiences’. They are still making enough plastic R2D2 merchandise to destroy the world’s oceans several times over, so the real cultural impact is still 1977 not 1999.

I don’t disagree with you. I just have a different point, and I honestly think it’s fine for other people to not really care about it, because it’s not something most people have to think about. And in that way, you’re absolutely right. The PT doesn’t have the same amount of impact as the originals do. I even said that.

But I don’t think it should be outright dismissed because of that. I don’t blame people if they do, ofc. The movies aren’t great IMO. And a lot of why they were allowed to have the impact they did is because of the originals, anyway.

Right, and the prequels have massive faults like that (although to be fair, some of those aren’t true), but in a cultural context, the prequels do hold significance to the current state of blockbuster, digital film making, and mainstream storytelling.

No one’s studying the prequels as an example of good filmmaking, obviously, but its ambition with technological innovation and strides made with the concept of diegesis in film worlds is worth discussing in an analysis of where the industry is now, where we are today as a critical audience, and what the “general audience” as a phrase means to a studio when it comes to making movies. It’s a little more academic and admittedly pretentious, than whether or not a character or faction in them was iconic. It’s more to do with cultural shift, rather than revolution or phenomenon.

And we shouldn’t downplay the trilogy’s effects on the generation(s) that have and will grow up with it. Sure, these particular films coast on the brand name established by the OT, but they’re there, and are introductions to more complex ideals that aren’t in a lot of works directed at a younger audience. The same way Luke Skywalker taught us “basic” good vs evil lessons (I’m being reductionist fyi), there are plenty of implicit morals in the PT that wouldn’t hurt towards better equipping someone in dealing with where the world is today. There is plenty of substance in these films, despite its objectively poor direction. It’s allowed to resonate with people, especially those not educated about what makes it objectively weak, in spite of that poor direction. Not everyone thinks and scrutinizes the same way a film student or critical OT fan does.

To get anecdotal rather than academic about it, try not to think about it as “either or” the OT or PT, because a kid nowadays grows up with both (As well as the ST and spinoffs now I suppose). Additionally, the only reason we know so much about what went wrong with the PT is that we can analyze the incredibly well documented process through the wealth of special/bonus features released with the DVDs - but that kind of thing being easy access definitely inspires aspiring filmmakers.

I do think people don’t give the prequels enough credit. They’ve given me a lot of material to work with in writing academic papers for my film major, and while the crux of film studies and theory is over-scrutinization and analysis of what is essentially entertainment, there is a lot of stuff in the prequels that I’ve found has been significant and/or subversive to film form, production, and storytelling. Not in the context of Star Wars for original trilogy fanboys ofc, just in the context of film history. Obviously only in the last 20 years, and much quieter than the original’s immediate cultural phenomenon status.

They may not have the objective strength as quality films alone, but there’s diegetic ambition and symptomatic relevance in these films that shouldn’t be overlooked because Hayden doesn’t like sand and Jar Jar Binks issa bombad.

I’m not even saying that the changes to the industry brought on by the prequels were good, either. But for better or for worse, they are significant films. It is probably more worth it to read about and study them as opposed to watch them for entertainment purposes, but even then, there is value in how the prequels continue play a role in the development of future generations; kids who don’t know too much better and do enjoy them.

LordRorek said:

I love every change you’re planning on making except the fact that Yoda and the Emperor won’t be fighting.

I just don’t agree with people’s justifications for removing this like that “Yoda is mystical and doesn’t fight.” or “Yoda is too old.”.

My feeling is that he has this one chance to end the empire and the sith forever. So he feels it is his duty (as one of the few remaining Jedi) to try and defeat the Emperor even if the effort kills him.

Now I agree the fight on Mustafar should be completely focused on Anakin and Obi-Wan without cutting between the two fights. One solution I have seen other fan-editors use is to make them two separate fights with the Mustafar landing pad scene acting as a breather in between them.

This just my opinion and don’t take this as criticism of your edit. It’s shaping up to be my fave edit of ROTS.

Keep up the good work. 👍🏻

I do agree with that reading of Yoda’s character, especially in the context of TCW, where I obviously don’t mind a lot of things like that and Obi Wan knowing R2 and stuff. I also like the somewhat symbolic imagery of watching the Senate hall literally being broken down and torn apart in this scene - really kind of signifies the end of this era.

My problem with it is that it kind of breaks the flow of things, specifically emotionally - and when it comes down to it, it is just another action scene. We go beat to beat to beat of Obi Wan and Padme finding out about Vader, to them both wanting to personally confront Anakin, and I’d rather have that play out the whole way through. The Yoda/Emperor thing is just so divorced from everything else, because they were never our perspective in the rest of the film: that’s Anakin, Padme, and Obi Wan. Yoda especially doesn’t do much in the movie. The main question I had to ask myself was what would be added to the story of the Empire’s rise from A/P/O’s perspectives by watching Yoda lose to Palpatine? It really is just another fight scene, one that distracts from the main plot and emotions. I’m not saying he wouldn’t have wanted to do something, but I can’t have him do something at the expense of what should be the focus. Yoda was never a focal point of the movie - besides the Order 66 scene - it’s distracting to have him share the climactic spotlight with Anakin and Obi Wan, even if it plays out before Anakin and Obi Wan duel.

Besides, it’s not like Yoda is being a coward. He even says “Until the time is right” later, so he’s being pragmatic about what they can do here and now. I know the idea is that he only learns to be like that because of his loss to Palpatine, but it’s just unnecessary. Idk, I’d have liked to keep in, but it doesn’t do much for my cut.

Pseudo poll! What poster do you guys like best?

(credit to this last one to ShortRound24 on Fanedit)

Once Palpatine says that he knows the nature of the dark side, Anakin stops and steps ahead of him. He doesn’t ask “You know the dark side?”, he just kind of goes on guard and glares at him, so you can infer that he already has an idea of where it’s going. He doesn’t ignite his lightsaber yet. He lets Palps talk until “…save your wife” then he ignites his lightsaber without asking “what did you say?”

So he doesn’t automatically assume Palpatine is a Sith Lord, but once he hears about the dark side, he stops verbally engaging with him until there’s more “proof” of Palps’ sith lordiness, which is like one and two more sentences, I guess.

…

And since we’re on the topic of this scene, something else I did with it was I cut the “more and more I get feeling that I’m being excluded from the council…”

I changed the lines a bit so it now goes “I wish I knew… But I know there are things about the force that they’re not telling me - (re-insert) I’m being excluded from the council.” Anakin is supposed to be more confident all around in my cut, I think him making a direct assertion about what’s going on, and not what he kind of thinks/feels is going on better serves that.

I really don’t agree with the notion that intelligence has anything to do with the right to appreciate Star Wars in whatever way you like.

And maybe the “kids” thing doesn’t matter. (kids do fall under the “SW fans post-SE” umbrella tho)
How about just a general respect for others? You don’t have to associate with people you disagree with, but jesus, once you start to think you’re superior in any way, how do you not see how that’s toxic?

I get that we’re on a forum called OriginalTrilogy, but we can favor the OT without bearing more of that toxic ill will or disrespect towards anyone else who thinks differently. If we want to put it in perspective, “pro-prequels” are more likely to be younger, and at a point you’re really just shit-talking kids. Way to go, champs.

I hope fans at Celebration treat Hayden with respect. He’s really not a bad actor or guy, and he’s a fellow Star Wars fan when we get down to it.

But he’s an important part of the Star Wars legacy now whether you like it or not, and I hope no one tries to take that away from him or anyone else who’s grown up with or are fans of him.

Him being here or in TLJ won’t affect the original movies, our preservations, a possible 4K restoration, or whatever your personal perspective on Star Wars is.

It really rubs me the wrong way that someone could think they have a patent on what Star Wars is and should mean to the millions of people who are fans of it. The beauty of it is that it does span so many generations and can - depending on who you talk to - be a sci-fi, or a fantasy, or a western, or crime and gangster flick, samurai or war film, or whatever the hell else.

Some people see fun/quirky kids films, others see philosophical samurai/western films, or a tribute to Flash Gordon, or just a franchise summer blockbuster, war movies, or a generation-spanning space opera/epic. Whatever it is to you, it doesn’t matter. And you can be on and off board with the franchise at whatever points you want, because you like a specific aspect of its universe more than the rest - but don’t try to assert that your perspective is the only one that matters because in your mind it’s “objective”; that you’re the smart fan. It implies you think everyone else are stupid sheep, but there’s no way to justify that with something so diverse. There’s no “right” or “wrong” way to do Star Wars.

It’s not like everyone doesn’t understand what Alderaan is saying. They’ve clearly demonstrated an understanding of his opinion, (having heard it so many times), and all anyone can really do from there is disagree, if they do. We’re discussing on a forum. It really doesn’t matter if someone thinks differently than you do about Star Wars. Especially about Star Wars.

Don’t worry guys, I was never going to quit, and I didn’t think no one was interested. I just (for some reason) felt pressured to finish sooner than later before. I guess once I made the thread, I felt like I couldn’t come out with nothing for a while, because I started when I wasn’t as busy as the current school/work crunchtime I’m in.

On the grading: As I’ve recently gotten into the editing with the schorman HDTV source of RoTS, I’ve gotten kind of used to how it looks, and I don’t mind it as much as the blu rays. Changing the colors just started feeling like one of those unnecessary changes Hal warned me about. Not to mention that it’s a lot of work. There’s probably going to be some subtle changes in the reds of their faces (white balance), saturation, and a few shadows in the CGI to actor relationships, but nothing noticeable. The general color scheme and the shade/lighting of lightsaber colors are going to stay the same. Sorry to people looking forward to that.

Hal 9000 said:

Sounds like a great philosophy of Vader; I really do look forward to what you end up producing along these lines.
Since you asked, my idea with LOE for Anakin was that he becomes involved in growing tensions between his loyalties to the Jedi Order, Palpatine, and Padme. He’s tossed around for a while, then Palpatine springs this nightmare on him as a manipulation. From that point on, he leans toward Palpatine and has to make the final decision when pressed during the ‘assassination attempt.’ All along, he never appears paranoid (a byproduct of changing his storyline in reshoots IMHO) until we see him talk with Padme on Mustafar, after he has steeped himself in the darkness. It’s really not that different from what ROTS was going for with Anakin, just restructured to have it make more sense, arguably reaching closer to what the pre-reshoot version might have been. In my version, as in the original, Anakin still carries that ‘slave’ mindset, seeming to crave someone being a master over him. Your version will be quite different, in subtle ways.

Right, so it’s pretty similar, mine differs in how I’m leaning more heavily on being able to see Anakin possibly go either way (jedi or sith) and it would make sense; really harping on how his turn to the dark side was a choice. Not saying that that might not have been what you were going for with LoE, but I think having Anakin be much more resistant to Palpatine throughout and affirm to Padme that he’s with her - despite Palpatine trying to turn him against her - makes that more clear. Where you kind of downplayed Padme’s role in his turn, I tried to keep her just as, if not moreso, of a reason for his turn as his allegiances.

And of course, our depictions of Anakin after the christening of Vader are where the most diverging happens.

Also, and this might just be down to interpretation again, but I’m always a bit iffy about a “slave mindset” Anakin subconsciously still looking for a “master.” I’m really going for the angle that the dark side being freedom is what gets him there. Anakin would personally prioritize the military (his prestige as “general” being his public renown), his future with Padme, as well as his loyalty to/belief in Palpatine, over the Jedi code and responsibility to the council’s interests. He’s a slave to the jedi in the sense that he has to repress his humanity (Padme), and do things for them he does not politically or ideologically believe in (treason). I think showing Anakin actually presenting the council’s interests to Palpatine, despite having just established that he personally disagrees, is one extra way to show that he really was trying to be “a good jedi” (by the council’s standards). But - not to talk so lightly about slavery - that he gets no recognition or trust for that loyalty, (as well as from his accomplishments and skill), show a dynamic with Anakin and the council that is more “slave-ish”, than the liberation to feel what he wants and to do what he believes in, that Palpatine offers.

Where I make a decision not to be a “slave” hard for Anakin is in how I depict him having an understanding of why the council thinks Palpatine and the dark side are wrong, as well as having this grounding force that is his friendship with Obi Wan. He doesn’t call Obi Wan “master” and their relationship is personally equal; in that way, he can’t actually feel like a slave - they’re genuinely friends. So that’s how I’m thinking about it, and how I’m making it look like Anakin could possibly do one or other before he actually makes a decision.

So I finally posted this onto the Fanedit forums for help, and there’s a brand new cutlist there. I also updated the one in this thread. I’m getting pretty close. Making a lot of slight changes here and there, but I’ll hopefully be done by summer. I have a lot of work and school and life, and I don’t really think anyone cares about this so that takes pressure off. Taking my time. At this point, I’m not even sure I’ll go forward with a drastic color grading.

…

I recently took it upon myself to change the four(?) instances of Anakin addressing Obi Wan as “master.” I went into this edit thinking that I would just change a few things to better push a specific interpretation, but I realized that that was just it. As much as I changed things, it would still just be an interpretation. One easier to believe with all the cuts, but a headcanon nonetheless. I’m doubling down and really committing to showing and more explicitly portraying the relationship between Anakin and Obi Wan I’m going for. Things like Anakin calling Obi Wan “master” just muddle that image. Anakin won’t call Obi Wan “master.” I legitimately watched 5 movies Hayden Christensen was in (never do this) just to find a good soundbyte to replace “You coming, Master?” with something more casual. Along the way, I also found some giggles that were useful in lightening the banter between the two.

…

I’ve also gotten some questions asking about what would make my cut different or better (depending on the person) from Hal’s cut. I am leaning heavily on his restructure of Anakin’s motivations. I’d like to know what Hal was going for exactly (it’s been a while since I’ve listened to his LoE commentary) in terms of what would be going through Anakin’s head and who Anakin is during his cut, before I can really answer that question.

But what I got from LoE, was that Anakin’s motivations for turning to the dark side are still generally that Palpatine convinced and manipulated Anakin (and this is the primary reason) into thinking the jedi were the bad guys, (with a good reason for Anakin to think so) and a little extra fear of Padme dying to make him do something about it. And it works fine, I still liked it.

But coming off of TCW into the OT, and my idea of who Anakin and Darth Vader should be - Anakin imo should have much, much more agency; it’s a decision, that he makes with a conscious mind. Most edits never leave the angle that Palpatine tricked him into becoming a sith, or that a submissive Anakin only turns to the dark as a last resort. Even LoE, while showing that the combination of Anakin’s loyalty, politics, and feelings understandably would turn him against the jedi, those reasons are all still put there there by Palpatine. He plays right into Palps’ game, not showing any awareness that he’s being played. That’s not very “sith” of a dark lord like Vader. I want it to be his choice, fully aware of what he’s playing with.

While Anakin in my cut is still manipulated by Palpatine, through a lot of little edits, Anakin is smarter and more adult throughout their relationship. Palpatine never explicitly plays on Anakin’s emotions and feelings - no tuskens, no blatant evil hints, he doesn’t tell Anakin that the council “needs” him, talk about the spying… He’s more subtle; he casually and “unintentionally” brings up things that would be salt on a wound. He doesn’t tell him that he deserves to be a master, or that he should feel conflicted, he just indirectly points out reasons why he would. Anakin is shown brooding and conflicted about what these indirects imply, instead of Anakin taking Palps’ word for direct assertions. Additionally, Anakin now tells Palpatine about dissenting opinions from the council, and shows an understanding of why those opinions exist. While he’s loyal to Palpatine, he’s also shown to be to Obi Wan and the council. He’s set up to not be 100% on either side, basically. I think that makes him smarter, and puts some kind of inner turmoil to the forefront. And not the old “I can’t let her die” conflict of OG!RoTS or the LoE “The Jedi were lying to me” conflict. It’s not one or the other, I’m going for the angle that this is a man caught between two of his allegiances.

So if Hal’s basic, basic structure is:

1. Anakin’s strained relationship with the jedi council and then political motivations introduced.
2. Fear of Padme’s death introduced.
3. 2 ignites action in service of 1 = Anakin’s turn to the dark side.

Mine is:

1. Anakin’s conflict between allegiance to the jedi order or to Palpatine introduced.
2. Fear of Padme’s death introduced.
3. 2 resolves 1 = Anakin’s turn to the dark side.

It’s similar, but my 1 and 3 are different. Padme possibly dying is still the impetus, but how it’s framed in my cut is Anakin decides that he can only keep Padme safe by aligning with Palpatine, either because of Plagueis or because of the political power and freedom that would come with it. And this becomes more clear once we’re out of these first two acts and into when Anakin actually becomes Vader. Hal keeps Anakin turning into Vader as this slow descent into full dark side corruption and power lust. He starts his descent well-intentioned but by the end is high on all of his new power. And that never sat right with me for Vader. The Vader I know from most of ANH, Empire, RoTJ, and the canon comics wasn’t crazy and corrupted. He wasn’t delusional or blinded by his power and emotions. “It’s too late for me, son.” was one of those things as a kid that showed me Vader knew he was a monster. And while the way he talked about the dark side’s power in the OT was always a supportive endorsement of it, it was more like a reverence of it rather than a dependence on having it.

So my Anakin doesn’t think he’s doing what’s best for the galaxy or the Republic or whatever. Sure, he has had political and ideological differences with the jedi council, and that’s what drives him away from them and to Palpatine, but he can’t believe that all of those jedi, in the temple and across the galaxy are bad. But he has to kill them all to embrace the dark side. He knows this, he knows what a sith is - and he can’t be proud of or eager to do it. That’s what I cut out. Every instance of Anakin being eager to do his master’s bidding is removed. He dances around the subject when he talks to Padme. He’s not proud. It’s just a means to an end for his goals for him and Padme. Their last conversation on Mustafar isn’t about the Republic, it’s about taking down Palpatine. For the two of them. For their baby. That’s what he chooses. He chooses what makes him powerful for them. It makes the Vader/Palpatine dynamic more wonderfully sith. It’s also what’ll inevitably turn him back in RoTJ, when he finally realizes the power doesn’t matter to the ones he loves.

Essentially, Anakin’s relationships to Palpatine, the dark side, and its power are the biggest differences in my cut. It doesn’t corrupt him or make him throw tantrums. As Palpatine says in the movie: ‘it gives [him] focus, make [him] stronger’. This is what makes Darth Vader the sith lord, especially when Kylo Ren exists now, whose unhinged emotionality with the dark side of the force is kind of what makes him a lesser Darth Vader. The idea that Anakin has master and control over his anger, fear, and hate to utilize them so effectively - that’s what made Darth Vader menacing when I was a kid. My Vader isn’t vengeful, emotional, or petty. He’s cold, methodical, and brutal. And this is how I’m keeping that image alive while maintaining the thematic through line of the prequels in a consistent way.

Not legally… xP

imperialscum said:

ray_afraid said:

I don’t understand why anybody would come here to complain about a movie that is over a year old now. It’s just a movie.
I didn’t care for it, but it didn’t wound me. I was disappointed, but so what? It didn’t erase movies I like so that it can exist. It doesn’t force it’s way onto my tv screen. In fact, TFA has stayed out of my way since I left the theater, but it’s there if I ever want it. Good boy!

I do not really care about the film. However, if someone claims it is well-written, I do feel like I need point out the fact that its plot is horrible.

Being polar like that and thinking your opinion is the correct, objective, and/or more intelligent one is generally an immature thing to do, though. Moreso if you don’t face up to that fact. Just to be fair.

There’s no objective truth about something like this. And if you do want to argue about objectivity in narrative storytelling, you’re arguing under the misinformed notion that there is only one mode and way a story should be told. It really just boils down to you having an opinion that some stories (TFA in particular) aren’t worth telling.

I’m reaching the unnecessary editing portion of this process; I had better just finish it now. People generally seem to be onboard with the rough cuts I sent them.

This is me once again taking longer to do this edit than it should - I’m still tweaking things as I go along and realizing I want to change things. xP

A lot of it has to do with me prior to starting underestimating what I’m capable of doing through the magic of editing. Going over the same movie a gazillion times over and seeing what people say here seem to give me new ideas every second, and now instead of telling myself that something wouldn’t work that well, I have the desire to at least test it. 😛

Hardcore Legend said:
It is a shame you can’t replace the line with “THE ORDER” or “THE FORCE”. That would make some sense in that Anakin has helped destroy the Jedi Order or is betraying his training as a Jedi.

One of the things that’s changed since that post is attacking that scene from the angle that Obi Wan is super angry and that’s why they end up dueling. Hal in his edit talks about how there’s room for the interpretation that Obi Wan didn’t go to Mustafar to kill Anakin, (he only tries to do so after he sees what Anakin does to Padme) and while I agreed that’s how it should go down, I didn’t necessarily feel that came across in LoE once Obi Wan stepped off of Padme’s ship. I bought that he wasn’t going to kill him prior to landing on Mustafar, but I didn’t buy that anything Obi Wan said and did to Anakin after landing wasn’t already antagonistic (in a “I’m going to have to kill you now” kind of way.)

So instead of angry Obi Wan off the bat, the new approach is going to kind of be similar to the kerr edit approach (or anyone who’s done something similar), I’m just going to have Obi Wan be more on the defensive simply by him igniting his lightsaber either after or at the same time as Anakin. Obi Wan won’t even have time to talk about “absolutes” or “doing what he must” before the duel starts. So the whole “to democracy” thing - whether it stays or goes - is kind of in the air as I figure this out. It might still stay, just because I feel there should be a distinction between the Empire and Republic in their conversation aside from name. Additionally, I can go either way with Anakin doing a rhetorical “If you’re not with me…” attacks or the straightforward “Then you’re my enemy…” attacks. Either one for those.

I might try to incorporate a sound clip of this: https://youtu.be/gKUPEc5tGno?t=15m12s

Idk how it would sound next to Ewan, but James Arnold Taylor did say that around the time of this game, he was doing more of a straight Ewan impression, as opposed to the Ewan/Alec mix he was going for in TCW. We’ll have to see how it plays. I might not even have Anakin say anything before he attacks at all if this works out.

…

Other changes made lol:

• Anakin and Obi Wan at the start of the movie:
  A: "But you owe me one and not for saving your skin for the tent-"
  O: "Ninth time. That business on Cato Nemoidia doesn’t - doesn’t count."
  Obi Wan cuts him off. It’s a little more friendly and kind of funnier that they’d have had this conversation before.

• “Now that the chancellor has control of the jedi council” cut from the beginning of that deleted scene with the senators discussing governors. It kind of just happened, so it was jarring to have them already know about and discussing what has so far just been Jedi affairs from the audience’s perspective.

it could also be a .wiiu file but no one uses that