Mrebo

Collipso said:

Regarding characters, I really like Poe, he has been my favorite character in the ST ever since TFA, and I’m glad he got developed even further in this movie.
Kylo Ren also gets a good share of character development, so he’s for sure second favorite.
Finn is not that interesting to me, and poor Rey in my eyes is nothing but a unrealistically overpowered character, which makes her boring.

I’m still not sure what to think about Luke’s arc in this movie though.

Too bad we lost DrDre, he was articulating a lot of what I think of the movie in more coherent ways.

I wonder how common the disconnect is with these new characters? I get what you and Hal are saying about Kylo Ren (though I don’t feel it).

What have I come back to? Sorry you have to deal with it, Jay. Hope you get to the theater soon.

Serious question: what characters do you find relatable and/or likable and why?

[edit: I wish I could like joefavs’s last post]

TV’s Frink said:

darth_ender said:

Mrebo’s back! Funny bumping into you in this seedy part of the forum!

This is actually the sanest part of the forum right now.

Oh God, what have I come back to?

Hi ender!

joefavs said:

Another thing to consider RE: the whole “it should have been Ackbar instead of Holdo” argument: sure, the good admiral is a fan favorite, but how receptive would general audiences have been to that subplot if it was a shouting rubber fish man instead of Laura Dern? Ackbar is fun, but I seriously doubt you could get a compelling enough performance out of him to anchor that sort of storyline. It would almost certainly have read as goofy to anyone going into the theater without this weird reverence for Ackbar that we super fans seem to all have.

I think it could have worked. I didn’t find Laura Dern’s performance very good but I blame the writing. It’s all in how you set it up. A real payoff would have been if Poe had been the pilot. As for the fear of scenes coming off as goofy, I had that problem with a great many scenes.

ROTJ
ESB
ANH
TLJ
TPM
ROTS
AOTC
TFA

Things I liked that many people seem to hate.

Leia using the Force to save herself: We knew in ESB and ROTJ that she had latent abilities. 30 years later when her life is at stake, it makes sense that any development in skills and survival instinct could lead her to use the relatively little exertion needed to pull herself through the frictionless vacuum of space.

The Yoda scene: I liked it for the most part. Initially he looked a bit off and I thought he was CGI. He looked great when in front of the fire, but not ghostly. I liked the dialogue.

Canto Bight: Though pointless, I like the visuals, music, and even the drunk little alien who mistook BB-8 for a slot machine.

I’ve yet to have my proverbial second viewing to see these things hold up, but wanted to put some things out there that I enjoyed.

I have followed this thread with great interest.

I’ve especially appreciated the posts by Wexter and Yoda is [My] Father. There’s a lot more being said than the movie is bad because things are the same and/or different. I agree with the reasons for why this was a letdown as a Star Wars film.

Like I said, I enjoyed the experience of TLJ - even though it had plotholes bigger than the second Death Star; the story concept was extremely dull; most character actions/stories were for nothing; and the humor at times was atrocious. It was an exciting movie despite all that.

DrDre said:

I think it’s fair to ask the question, why the ST is following this trajectory? Is it really trying to tell it’s own story, or is it just trying to redo the OT in some form, but pretending that it isn’t by avoiding the same twists. A lot of the twists and turns, while different from the OT, seem to derive from taking an OT story thread, and doing the opposite. It follows the what if scenario:

What if Vader couldn’t be redeemed?

What if Vader overthrew the Emperor?

What if Yoda refused to train Luke?

Many of the beats of the story of TLJ are very similar to TESB with the ROTJ throne room sequence thrown into the mix. Bad guys attack good guy base. Bad guys chase good guys (albeit a lot slower). Young hero goes to backwater planet to be trained by Jedi Master. Young hero defies her teacher, by going after the bad guy. Rogue betrays good guys. Bad guy fails to turn the hero to the dark side. Heroes end up in a tight spot.

Of course by taking the what if scenario, the ST is abandoning several of the underlying themes of the OT that drive the OT’s twists. Which begs the question, is Star Wars more defined by it’s themes, or by it’s story beats? My view is, that it is the former, and a new Star Wars trilogy that is based on the same themes, but has different story beats is better than a Star Wars trilogy, that is based on different themes, but largely follows the same story beats.

Some good points. Both films feel like they’re struggling with what it means to be Star Wars. TLJ is angsty about it. Both are excessively self-referential. It is really hard to take someone else’s creative invention and be faithful to developing it. I think they have fallen into a trap, as the late Admiral Ackbar would observe. Maybe it is the pressures of fan and corporate expectations or simply the difficulty of adopting the work as their own. Where JJ tried too little, Rian tried too hard. If it were all in the service of story there would be no problem. But much was done in the service of struggling with being Star Wars.

TV’s Frink said:

Mrebo!

Love the avatar.

Hi Frink 😃

Thanks.

Hi all. Long time no see.

TLJ is more divisive than I thought. My own thoughts are divided. I enjoyed the film. But I am very disillusioned and disagree with where they have taken Star Wars, in tone and story choices. Disillusionment is practically a theme of the movie. Maybe it’s echoing, intentionally or not, the times we live in; or merely where the generation that grew up with Star Wars is today. I am very curious how this Star Wars movie plays for younger audiences. In many ways this is a weighty movie. The visuals are cool but I can’t imagine what they get out of the story.

Posted too soon.

Yoda Is Your Father said:

SilverWook said:

As I’ve said elsewhere, the galaxy is in Cold War type situation at the beginning. The Resistance is fighting the good fight, and the Republic is looking the other way, yet supporting them in secret. (Yes, it’s the worst kept secret in the galaxy, but that’s politics for you.) As that sure looked like Coruscant getting vaporized, things have changed drastically.

It’s a good answer, and it goes some way to making sense of it all, so thanks.

But why would they look the other way? The Galactic Empire was awful, whole systems celebrated when it was overthrown. Wouldn’t everybody want to stop the First Order before history repeats itself.

And I don’t mean stop them by supporting a small band of rebels/resistance. I mean go at them, full pelt, and STOP THEM.

Agree SilverWook provides a good explanation. However, agree it is unnecessarily confusing. I think it was one of the many instances where they sought to mimic the character of the OT - where we didn’t know all the ins-and-outs of the government and the war, nor did we need to, making it feel more real because there was stuff below the surface. I just don’t think that tactic works when we’re already enmeshed in the story (via IV-VI) as it merely obscures, rather than suggest depth.

SilverWook said:

Mrebo said:

hydrospanner said:

TK428 said:

So here’s my question since we aren’t 100% sure if Rey is Luke’s daughter.

a) Rey is the daughter of Luke Skywalker.
b) Rey is the daughter of Leia & Han and we weren’t told yet.
c) Rey is the offspring of someone else.

I am leaning towards A or C being the most likely. She spent half the movie with Han so if B were the case he either didn’t know it was his daughter he had found or for some reason kept it concealed. Han and Leia talk about their son quite a bit, with no mention of a daughter.

In the flashback they showed her being left on Jakku as a very small child… so this would have presumably been before Kylo turned to the dark side and killed all the Jedi, so she likely wouldn’t have been hidden from Kylo unless they are brother and sister but end up not being twins and she is in fact several years younger.

I think A is probably the most likely… why is she drawn towards a lightsaber that based on what we know now has only been used by people with the Skywalker name. With her being the one to find Luke after he has vanished for so long it sure seems they are setting it up that way.

Also recall Kylo looks into her mind and sees an island. Some rationale in Luke leaving her on a desert planet, to keep her safe, the same kind of planet he grew up on. Although I question the care she was left in.

I’ve been wondering about that. The person who was supposed to look after her could have died over the years though. (Scavenging old space ship hulks is a dangerous profession.) Could Max Von Sydow’s character been keeping an eye on her at a distance?

That would help explain why he was in the movie, and also why he was in possession of the map.

hydrospanner said:

TK428 said:

So here’s my question since we aren’t 100% sure if Rey is Luke’s daughter.

a) Rey is the daughter of Luke Skywalker.
b) Rey is the daughter of Leia & Han and we weren’t told yet.
c) Rey is the offspring of someone else.

I am leaning towards A or C being the most likely. She spent half the movie with Han so if B were the case he either didn’t know it was his daughter he had found or for some reason kept it concealed. Han and Leia talk about their son quite a bit, with no mention of a daughter.

In the flashback they showed her being left on Jakku as a very small child… so this would have presumably been before Kylo turned to the dark side and killed all the Jedi, so she likely wouldn’t have been hidden from Kylo unless they are brother and sister but end up not being twins and she is in fact several years younger.

I think A is probably the most likely… why is she drawn towards a lightsaber that based on what we know now has only been used by people with the Skywalker name. With her being the one to find Luke after he has vanished for so long it sure seems they are setting it up that way.

Also recall Kylo looks into her mind and sees an island. Some rationale in Luke leaving her on a desert planet, to keep her safe, the same kind of planet he grew up on. Although I question the care she was left in.

I’ve just come from seeing it. My overall impression, which echos what others have said, is that too much was forced. Pun intended. Too many “moments,” too much convenience and rapid movement to the next needed event. Too much reliance on exposition and a soup of elements from the OT. It resulted in not feeling natural, relationships not feeling as real as they should have. I can’t tell if the movie would have benefited from a better story or a simpler telling. When we pare the story down to its elements, I think it may be the former as much as the latter.

That’s not to say I thought it was bad, I’m still digesting a lot. The Millenium Falcon chase really inspired a new hope in me after a start that left me searching for something to hold onto. Many great visuals, although generally fleeting. I wish Maz Kanata had been more fleshed out, more time taken there. I liked the female protagonist angle. I agree much with Noxos on the good and bad. The vision sequence was very good - modern but impressive.

In the end, I feel that this was something of a Forced Awakening.

Being Nixon

I almost never read non-fiction but it’s very good. Window into his personality and the kind of person who can become president.

Possessed said:

i don’t see how his posting in this thread could ever be productive.

I’m not a person who knows how to accept emotional support very well, so I sympathize. Putting feelings out there may help you work them out. Sometimes just saying something helps to relieve the pressure.

joefavs said:

towne32 said:

Starkiller origin point is interesting. The movement of the Death Star was always pretty ambiguous (although I bet the EU explained it in great detail). What if Starkiller has light speed engines?

I don’t want to say “I have a theory” because I don’t think I really believe it, but I’ve speculated that Starkiller stays in one place and can somehow fire it’s laser through hyperspace.

I bet it could hit Qo’noS…

I still love Return of the Jedi. I agree with some of the criticisms. I think Chris Stuckmann does a fair job reviewing it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W9_d02g694

There’s so much good in the movie that it overshadows the not so great elements.

Time for an old computer.

You’re not the only one with this serious problem, however:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/112772-13-alert-yuris-revenge-game-wont-load

A few options are mentioned, like changing the compatibility mode to 95, using vmware, and an uninstall/ reinstall as admin method. Those methods are a few years old, but might still check out.

CatBus said:

Mrebo said:

There is allegedly a test the eye doctor can do to check if your eyes are attuned to the 3D experience. I suspect my eyes struggle more than others but maybe I just don’t enjoy it.

Well, there’s no shortage of crazy pop-out effect movies to test yourself out on. It’s quite possible to see the effect and fail to see the point of the effect, which is where I’ve pretty much landed on every “You just have to see this in 3D!” movie. Assuming you can see the effect, it’s just a matter of finding the type of film it where you can see the point of the effect (which is subjective), and then whether you actually like that type of film (which is also subjective). If I opt to see TFA, it’ll definitely be in 2D.

For me it takes some time/effort for things to come together and not be so disorienting (and I don’t know if that’s normal for the 3D experience) and then I feel it requires some concentration on my part.
I think the last movie I saw in 3D was Boxtrolls. At some point in that movie, either I stopped really noticing it or to the extent I did, I didn’t see the point. So it’s not that I can’t see it at all, but it seems to require an effort.

There is allegedly a test the eye doctor can do to check if your eyes are attuned to the 3D experience. I suspect my eyes struggle more than others but maybe I just don’t enjoy it.

I remain very optimistic but my greatest fear about VII is that it will be something of reboot, repurposing most everything from the OT, rather than truly building on it.