?
I thought the thread might actually be a discussion, but it’s mostly people getting mad and repeating meme talking points. And its also quite one-sided–it’s the side I agree with so that’s nice for me but not much of a discussion lol.
You’ve obviously not read the entire thread yet.
I’d like to know what expectations you have.
On the one hand, maybe it drains remote suns just like how it destroys remote planets. But in that case, why does it drain its own sun? On the other hand, maybe it does move around to new suns, but in that case why doesn’t it completely drain the first sun it orbits like it does the second (Hux’s speech is in daylight)? To me it doesn’t matter much either way.
I honestly never thought it was two different stars. I just figured the star that they drained to destroy the Hosnian system was large enough that they were able to get two charges out of it.
But Finn claims that the weapon draws power from the sun until it disappears, implying that once the draining starts, it will not stop until the star is destroyed. Poe repeats this during their attack.
Stop and think for a moment. Using up two stars does not mean it had to move. It is possible that they found the ideal system with multiple stars to use with this weapons. They probably destroyed the smallest star first and from a larger one they might get several charges out of it. There is a big difference between Sol and Sirius. A star that might give one charge could be the companion of a star that can give sixty. And I never got the impression that the first star was destroyed as Starkiller base never went dark which it would if the sun was sucked dry. Sometimes science can be the friend of wild SF storytelling.
You keep mentioning how the sky never went dark, but… I thought we only saw it charge once? It was charged at some point off screen (same system or a different one? The film doesn’t answer this question and it’s really irrelevant. It could’ve been charged before the movie even started for all we know). It expends this charge when it fires on the Hosnian system. Then it begins draining the star that it currently orbits in order to fire on the resistance.
So, of course the sky never went dark. We only actually SAW it charging once, after it had fired.
Are you suggesting that it only somewhat drains the sun, and after a bit the sun builds back its energy so that it’s not dark anymore?
Shouldn’t the sun have gone supernova before being drained?
Listen man, I have no idea.
Then let us not worry whether the sky is falling.
On the one hand, maybe it drains remote suns just like how it destroys remote planets. But in that case, why does it drain its own sun? On the other hand, maybe it does move around to new suns, but in that case why doesn’t it completely drain the first sun it orbits like it does the second (Hux’s speech is in daylight)? To me it doesn’t matter much either way.
I honestly never thought it was two different stars. I just figured the star that they drained to destroy the Hosnian system was large enough that they were able to get two charges out of it.
But Finn claims that the weapon draws power from the sun until it disappears, implying that once the draining starts, it will not stop until the star is destroyed. Poe repeats this during their attack.
Stop and think for a moment. Using up two stars does not mean it had to move. It is possible that they found the ideal system with multiple stars to use with this weapons. They probably destroyed the smallest star first and from a larger one they might get several charges out of it. There is a big difference between Sol and Sirius. A star that might give one charge could be the companion of a star that can give sixty. And I never got the impression that the first star was destroyed as Starkiller base never went dark which it would if the sun was sucked dry. Sometimes science can be the friend of wild SF storytelling.
You keep mentioning how the sky never went dark, but… I thought we only saw it charge once? It was charged at some point off screen (same system or a different one? The film doesn’t answer this question and it’s really irrelevant. It could’ve been charged before the movie even started for all we know). It expends this charge when it fires on the Hosnian system. Then it begins draining the star that it currently orbits in order to fire on the resistance.
So, of course the sky never went dark. We only actually SAW it charging once, after it had fired.
Are you suggesting that it only somewhat drains the sun, and after a bit the sun builds back its energy so that it’s not dark anymore?
Shouldn’t the sun have gone supernova before being drained?
On the one hand, maybe it drains remote suns just like how it destroys remote planets. But in that case, why does it drain its own sun? On the other hand, maybe it does move around to new suns, but in that case why doesn’t it completely drain the first sun it orbits like it does the second (Hux’s speech is in daylight)? To me it doesn’t matter much either way.
I honestly never thought it was two different stars. I just figured the star that they drained to destroy the Hosnian system was large enough that they were able to get two charges out of it.
But Finn claims that the weapon draws power from the sun until it disappears, implying that once the draining starts, it will not stop until the star is destroyed. Poe repeats this during their attack.
Stop and think for a moment. Using up two stars does not mean it had to move. It is possible that they found the ideal system with multiple stars to use with this weapons. They probably destroyed the smallest star first and from a larger one they might get several charges out of it. There is a big difference between Sol and Sirius. A star that might give one charge could be the companion of a star that can give sixty. And I never got the impression that the first star was destroyed as Starkiller base never went dark which it would if the sun was sucked dry. Sometimes science can be the friend of wild SF storytelling.
SW wiki says it moves by use of rocket ports. Even if in the same system that must take a long time. We might as well pretend it can move through hyperspace.
Wasn’t the 8th Commandment on a stone tablet?
So I don’t see the problem here.
+1
Warb, we should want to rehabilitate prisoners. As stone tablets beget books, books beget electronic tablets. Prisoners can have books, so why not tablets? Per the article, they are limited to certain purposes. I saw that Trump spoke of prison reform in the SOTU. Don’t know if he’s serious but it’s a great idea.
Sometimes I’ll forget about the age gap between me and a lot of other members on this site, but then someone will say something lame or post an old meme or something and I realise I’m basically hanging out with a bunch of thirty to forty year olds. No disrespect.
LOL, isn’t the internet a great place?
In any case, I thought of something significant. While Leia demotes Poe for wasting their resources in destroying the dreadnought after they jump to hyperspace, in the end, his actions proved to be something that kept them from total destruction because that dreadnought’s weapons could probably have destroyed the fleet through their shields. So Poe saved the day at the beginning of the story and Rose’s sister did not die in vain and at the end of the day, Luke and Rey save the last survivors to fight another day. So the movie is not as dark as it could have been. But even so, Poe learns a valuable lesson about command and when to take risks and that it needs to be more calculated and less reckless.
I’m not sure if it was intentional or not that Poe’s action was ultimately a good decision. It was possibly not thought out that way by RJ. Or, as I mused previously, RJ was focusing on the ethics of decisions, rather than whether the result is good or moral.
Under that theory, it didn’t matter if attacking the Dreadnaught was strategically sound or ultimately a good thing, Poe had to learn to not act for the wrong reasons. I’m not sure how convincing that is - even if my theory is true - because we can believe Poe was operating under a calculated strategy and ended up being right about it. And it enhances the feeling that Leia and Holdo were thinking too short term and treating “hope” with too much reverence.
If Poe was right, he was right by accident. The only reason the Resistance came under attic after they escaped was because of tech believed to be “impossible.” It’s an important lesson either way.
Nonetheless, I think the Resistance should be glad he disobeyed that order.
I do wonder things like why the ships didn’t split up (or why the escape ships weren’t used). Maybe Holdo still didn’t have any idea how the tracking system worked. Or maybe the lead ship could track various ships and relay coordinates to Star Destroyers to go after them.
A question I just heard raised which I hadn’t considered was why Luke didn’t talk about any kind of plan with Leia when he popped in. Did he just hope there was a way out? Or did he know? He delayed the First Order a few minutes, but what was the expectation? I have considered whether it was Luke who lifted the rocks rather than Rey, but that’s probably overthinking it.
In any case, I thought of something significant. While Leia demotes Poe for wasting their resources in destroying the dreadnought after they jump to hyperspace, in the end, his actions proved to be something that kept them from total destruction because that dreadnought’s weapons could probably have destroyed the fleet through their shields. So Poe saved the day at the beginning of the story and Rose’s sister did not die in vain and at the end of the day, Luke and Rey save the last survivors to fight another day. So the movie is not as dark as it could have been. But even so, Poe learns a valuable lesson about command and when to take risks and that it needs to be more calculated and less reckless.
I’m not sure if it was intentional or not that Poe’s action was ultimately a good decision. It was possibly not thought out that way by RJ. Or, as I mused previously, RJ was focusing on the ethics of decisions, rather than whether the result is good or moral.
Under that theory, it didn’t matter if attacking the Dreadnaught was strategically sound or ultimately a good thing, Poe had to learn to not act for the wrong reasons. I’m not sure how convincing that is - even if my theory is true - because we can believe Poe was operating under a calculated strategy and ended up being right about it. And it enhances the feeling that Leia and Holdo were thinking too short term and treating “hope” with too much reverence.
Funny how we went from the DS obviously had to have hyperdrive to the DSK didn’t move. Goes to illustrate how different perceptions can be. Seemed obvious that DSK moved. And based on previous DS discussion zoomed through hyperspace?
#SAVETHEPIGMEN
🤘
Funny how we went from the DS obviously had to have hyperdrive to the DSK didn’t move. Goes to illustrate how different perceptions can be. Seemed obvious that DSK moved. And based on previous DS discussion zoomed through hyperspace?
SKB
Yeah but in a battle between the DS and SKB, who would win?
Funny how we went from the DS obviously had to have hyperdrive to the DSK didn’t move. Goes to illustrate how different perceptions can be. Seemed obvious that DSK moved. And based on previous DS discussion zoomed through hyperspace?
I look forward to seeing Rey’s lightsaber in EIX based on SKB tech, emitting a blade of energy taken from a star, because iteration and it would be cool 😎
yotsuya, I think we’re coming from very much the same place. We’re seeing different things or have different tolerances but I agree with your premises.
With the sexual asssault claims made against big political donors, like Weinstein and Steve Wynn, the call to return political donations is so wrongheaded. Don’t give those guys thousands or millions of dollars.
I’m with Dre in not getting a sense of the state of affairs in the galaxy and being put off by that.
tere are good explanations for most of them anyway.
There are explanations now that we’ve had ages to ponder them. Conversely, the novelization for TLJ isn’t even out yet.
The TFA novel straight up explains how the Starkiller beam could destroy a planet on the other side of the galaxy from where the base itself is located. It just depends on it you want to accept that explanation.
That is to say, you like the movie or you don’t, and that’s your choice. But holding ST and OT up to different yard sticks isn’t exactly fair.
We shouldn’t need novelizations to justify the events of a movie.
But as for different yardsticks, the Death Star was a moon sized space station with essentially a big version of a blaster that could blow up rocky planets. It required the resources of a galaxy-spanning empire to build.
Starkiller Base is a piece of construction many times larger than the Death Star, with a primary weapon requiring seemingly universe-breaking technology that has never been previously hinted at or explained, built by an organization that by all indications is a fraction the size of the Empire.
These are not two yardsticks.
Iteration is your answer.
The German Empire was defeated in WWI, the Nazi’s “rose from the ashes” and 20 years later the Third Reich invaded Poland and WWII began.
The engineering iteration upon the previous weapons, saw the war machine now employ cannon that could span the English channel, unmanned V2 bombs, U boats, and any number of other more advanced hardware (including ultimately nuclear weapons).
Pretty obvious that the First Order is based upon the hardware of the Empire (TIE Fighters, Star Destroyers, Stormtrooper armour, Starkiller Base, etc), and so iteration is your answer to why they are more advanced.
But that still doesn’t answer the question of why they were able to build a far more ambitious project with far less resources. If we saw that they used a robotic workforce and had a lot of automation for their fleet it would make sense, but we get no indication that it’s different from the Empire in this regard. Hux even says that it’s a machine ‘that you have built’. Yet another missed opportunity if you ask me.
Well, how did the Empire do it? They built two huge battlestations in secret. The First order built a superweapon on a small planet. Not quite the same level of construction required. the weapon is more powerful, but the setup is not larger. And we see this one fleet. How many fleets does Snoke have? How many fleets did the Empire have? We see and increase in the technology, but we don’t really see a larger force. The Empire had to dominate the galaxy and keep the rebels at bay. The First Order destroyed the Republic capital and fleet (one fleet in one system, but evidently all the Republic thought it needed) so they don’t need the huge resources the Empire had to have the fleet and ships we see. When you move beyond the movies, the Empire was massive and there is no indication the First Order is anywhere near that big.
All the elaborate explanations in the galaxy won’t make up for what I saw on the screen. If we go down this route, I think creating something with the power to devour and emit stars is a construction project inordinately greater than the Death Star. There is also the need to move the planet. And the planet has hyperdrive? (Now that is funny.)
The expectations thing is too often overstated. Of course there were expectations. Who here doesn’t have expectations about Star Wars? If someone didn’t like the movie, saying expectations were not met, well, that should go without saying. Same for those who like the movie, expectations were met. That doesn’t mean the expectations on either side were very specific.
Nice to meet you, Zander. Not many will be forthcoming about who they are (yhwx is actually Bruce Wayne). But it’s all in good humor.
When I’m not online, I enjoy used book stores, traveling, eating, thinking deep thoughts.
I have not pondered them for years because those scenes never bothered me.
What I used to ponder were much more mundane matters, such as where are the bathrooms on the Death Star and how do Stormtroopers go in those outfits? Flip up codpieces? 😛
You have spent your years on more interesting topics! I never even considered it.
tere are good explanations for most of them anyway.
There are explanations now that we’ve had ages to ponder them. Conversely, the novelization for TLJ isn’t even out yet.
The TFA novel straight up explains how the Starkiller beam could destroy a planet on the other side of the galaxy from where the base itself is located. It just depends on it you want to accept that explanation.
That is to say, you like the movie or you don’t, and that’s your choice. But holding ST and OT up to different yard sticks isn’t exactly fair.
I think Wook just tossed out some of the ideas from the top of his head. Or maybe he has spent years pondering them. That would be interesting. I don’t look to the novelizations for anything anyway.
I don’t do novelizations or visual dictionaries, not that I think it should matter to enjoy a film. Starkiller felt like a ridiculous rehash. On numerous levels it just didn’t work for me. You’re right that if one has a desire just about anything could be acceptable. Midi-chlorians, for example, aren’t as bad as some people understood them. But I still find it a terrible concept that broke with how the Force was previously conceived.
No problem. I sometimes think we need a Star Wars version of the Marvel Comics No Prize though. : )
Had too look that up, but good idea.
@SilverWook
It was not my intent to poke holes in the OT. I’m only saying their argument against the bombers not making sense is invalid if they don’t complain about the OT not making sense.
That’s all I’m saying. I’m perfectly willing to accept explanations for these things, but if people are complaining because it should make sense on its face, then explaining it here wouldn’t really make a difference anyway.
For the record, there are things in the OT that bug me just a tad but they’re overwhelmed by engagement in what’s happening. None of the things you mentioned bother me, and like Wook says, there are good explanations for most of them anyway.
Speaking only for myself, I agree these kinds of things shouldn’t hurt enjoyment of a movie. Someone raised the bomb topic and I gave my two cents on why it shouldn’t be an issue
As joefavs wrote, describing a Cracked podcast, an audience shouldn’t even notice these oddities if they’re sufficiently engaged. So I think the focus on these things is a symptom of lacking engagement more than anything else. And for those people, hopefully they can see that any complaint about the bombs is really nonsensical.
Your point may buttress that, but is not terribly convincing to people who think there is a valid complaint there.
A thing on timelines here: The two main storylines in TLJ start at different times. The escape storyline starts a week after the events of TFA; the Ach-To storyline happens immediately after the events of TFA.
The bomber: People complained about how the bomber thing was unrealistic because there’s no gravity in space. That pedantry is inaccurate. The bombs fell due to the gravitational force of the Star Destroyer underneath the bomber. This is the same reason that Star Destroyer falls into the Death Star in ROTJ.
I read in the visual dictionary that the bombs used magnetic tech as well.
Yes, and that is unnecessary. The artificial gravity within the bomber is enough to give the bombs an initial velocity once they are released to propel them towards the target, as Mrebo already pointed it out.
Also, this obviates the need to talk about the gravity of the ship, which cannot be that significant. I wonder if someone at LFL actually saw a plothole here and came up with magnets or if they were just a cool add-on.
Look, there are plenty of plotholes and mistakes in the OT too if you don’t add EU/Wookieepedia explanations. Contrivances or not, whether it matters to you that it doesn’t make sense on its face comes down to your own choice of whether to just sit back and enjoy it.
We’re just talking here. I don’t care about physics being entirely realistic. In this case, the physics do make sense. That should give some SW junkies peace of mind.
I’m dying. Of laughter.