MrInsaneA

darth_ender said:

Well, it is shorter than the Executor, but...thicker.  Personally, if we include it, I think it should be a big ship.  Part of my reason for advocating it at all is because Vader brought the Executor, the Emperor would bring his big bad boy and flaunt his capital ship.  If it's going to be a small ship, I'd honestly rather not include it.

Okay...I'm still for it. GOECLIPSEGO!!!!

darth_ender said:

JLB_Tosche said:

There's talk going on of including the Eclipse? Sounds interesting and potentially difficult, you probably want to avoid it ending up with some one-upping game going on: You think a Star Destroyer's big? Look at my Super Star Destroyer! You think that's big? Check out this Eclipse class Super Star Destroyer! You think that's big? Have a look at our Second Death Star!
Perhaps it could be used as the Emperor's transport to the Death Star, have it dock and not mentioned. Or, use it for the Emperor's throne room scenes. 

Actually, that pretty much exactly what we have in mind, except it will not dock, but will simply leave afterwards.  And that's not even final yet.  It could just as easily end up left out.  It will serve no other purpose, as it really can be an over-the-top ship.  I personally just like the look of it, and since Vader is arriving in the Executor in this version, I thought, "What would the Emperor come in?"

I really want the Eclipse, but I think it should be smaller then the Executor. Just make it the size of a regular Star Destroyer. Wah-lah! Instant eye candy.

darth_ender said:

Johannus said:

There are a few things I would like to add to the vote if I may.  Firstly I would like to push once more for the Bothan scene as I (very crudely) mocked up because I didn't really get much feedback on that.  I know it is possibly the most extravegant version suggested but I feel it would really set this apart from other edits. 

Also I would like to push for the idea of making Jabba's palace seedier.  I'm open to ideas on how but someone suggested using clips of other dancers and editing them in.  If we do then I would like to suggest using a redheaded girl which could then be Mara Jade (one of the only ideas from the EU that I like).  To anyone who doesn't like the EU it would just be a redheaded girl, and she wouldn't pop up again but to anyone who likes Mara Jade it could be Mara Jade.  Much in the same way as the Eclipse would be just another ship in the context of this film. 

I would also like to see a second sail barge added as per the original concept art.  I made a mock up of this ages ago and put forward an idea of how it could be dealt with but I am not at my computer at the moment so I will have to expand on this later.  Basically it wouldn't interfere with the story, but visually it would make Luke's survival and victory seem much more unlikely and thus impressive. 

I would also like to see more alien species mixed into the background as a part of the rebel forces on Endor (such as Wookiee commandos).  This would probably only be possible by shooting new footage, so I don't know if you would want to include this in the vote or not as we are uncertain on how practical that will be, but the idea is there if you would like to. 

Thats all I can think of at the moment but just wanted to get them down here before all the voting options are gathered for the final vote.  I wander though whether it would be worth holding off on this final vote for a touch longer until we have further discussed some of the more divided issues such as the Bothan scene, and some of the newer ideas like making Jabba's palace darker. 

 

I will add them to the vote.  While I like the idea of a more diverse group at Endor, I think that would be an especially difficult task to pull off, since they would probably need to be composited into some existing footage, which would be especially difficult to pull off realistically.

I think Jabba's Palace would be easier to pull off because a couple of new shots replacing the SE shots could go a long way in improving the nature and feel of the throne room/brothel.  Mara Jade is especially interesting to me.

I can include a second sail barge, but I honestly don't think that would be necessary, or again very easy.  Putting the barge in place seems quite workable, but then people aboard it would also be firing at the company and trying to prevent the group's escape.  I don't see how we could use existing footage to make that work.

The vote will include all Bothan options mentioned, including their removal.  Everyone can only vote for one option.  And I can wait on the vote for a few more days, but at the same time the vote can prompt discussion of the merits of each suggested idea.

 

MrInsaneA, I'm glad you like the script as it currently is.  I actually hope very little changes with it because I really like how it has turned out thus far as well.  But I don't think the changes up for vote will make any big difference anyway, mostly just some minor visuals.  But we can submit it as a voting item as well.

Oh good. Because honestly, I think we've struck gold here Ender. This has so much potential, and if we can execute it, it could be perfect.

So like....can we vote on whether we want this new script to be the basis of our first version of this edit? Because I really, really, really, really want it to be.

Ender.....if we can do everything in this script....

I think this might turn into my favorite Star Wars movie ever.

Best part has to be....

Ric Olie: Yep, that's a lot of TIE fighters!

Johannus said:

MrInsaneA said:

Let's not kill people my inner-child would want alive, please. He's been through enough.

The only thing that worries me a little with an edit that is decided in this way is that if someone has a very radical idea then most people will generally vote it down because, by its very definition, doesn't mesh that well with that their own version might change.  Therefore, unless every radical suggestion is then backed up by a reasonably well executed demonstration which can convince people, they are almost always voted down. 

For example I put forward the idea of Yoda giving Luke his lightsaber crystal and then Luke building a new lightsaber.  Ron wanted a shorter version of this idea.  Because we both have our own vision of this scene which is different to the other's we naturally dislike the others a little.  Therefore, if it was only up to the two of us we would end up with either two distinct versions, one very conservative compromise, or no new version at all. 

The votes seem to suggest that when a change is suggested that isn't massively necessary to improve something but simply to try to put a different take on things it is voted down.  This is seen with the idea of Luke and Leia being siblings.  Some like it, some don't, but as there is a reasonable split these groups' votes will cancel out.  Another of Ron's suggestions was a more subtle change on this concept (where they are siblings, but Luke never tells Leia) but as the group who dislike the siblings story don't need this idea they will vote it down, and the group who like the siblings story don't see a need for it to be changed will vote it down.  This leaves this branch of the story left uneditted, but mostly because not everyone can agree. 

I hope Darth Ender knows I don't mean any disrespect by this because he has taken on a massive undertaking and he has been doing a fantastic job so he deserves the most respect for that.  But I would like to suggest that rather than the votes being a way to disregard some ideas and approve others it be used as a way of creating an order of ideas.  So for example we could have a shortlist of ideas which has received the most positive support.  Then from this list of say the three most popular, the editing team could decide which to work on first.  Eventually enough ideas would be completed to be pieced into an edit and this could be version 1.  However, as each component would be an isolated scene it could then be used as people see fit.  So for example a very popular idea such as new ships being added to the DS assault could be concentrated on first, then eventually maybe my idea of the new Dagobah scene would be picked up.  If (as the last vote suggested) people prefered my take on the scene than Ron's this could be completed, which could then be used by Ron, simply by cutting up the new scene to his shortened version, thus satisfying both views. 

I think if we focused efforts on this style of editing small bits at a time, rather than focussing on the film as a whole, we would see more progress made in smaller steps, and we wouldn't get weighed down in whether certain changes would alter the pace or whatever, because those choices would be down to individual editors.  Though I am not against a collaborative edit being made by voting in the way that has been happening, I think we should be planning the edit itself once we have some of the more popular ideas actually realised. 

I hope I don't sound like I am being negative with the way this thread has developed, because I honestly think it is the best idea on this site.  I just think it would grow and evolve much better as a collection of resources we create, which are then editted in a number of ways by a number of us, than simply by trying to find a route which satisfies as many as possible, because I fear we may be in danger of ending up with something that resembles the original much more closely than any of us really want, but we just couldn't agree enough on how we wanted it to differ.

Sorry for the long rant there and I hope I didn't offend anyone.  Thanks to anyone who read it all.

I suggested from the beggining that we have multiple versions of this edit, as to incorporate most of the ideas.....I'm for this idea.

Let's not kill people my inner-child would want alive, please. He's been through enough.

darth_ender said:

Hey, I was thinking about you while working on the updated script.  Thanks for your efforts so far.  Things have been slow here, but I feel confident that you are chugging away at those deleted scenes.

I have been pretty intent on finding some useful Star Tours footage, but I'm going to give that a rest for now.  I still have ideas, but my diversion has brought the whole thread to a near standstill.  I need to get the script completed, and then I will send out the final vote, make assignments (assuming emergency powers of course ;) , and MrInsaneA will continue to work on the rough cut.

Which reminds me, I'm changing plans again.  Working with Excel, while nice for organization, made it difficult to insert and rearrange items (I'm working with Microsoft Office 2003 I'm afraid).  But I've numbered the whole script and changing the comments to be more specific of needed changes.  I'm also including all pictures we voted yes on (even the forest fire, which I strongly oppose because I see no way to make it work).  Even the pictures are numbered.  When an editor wishes to work on something, he simply says, "Hey, I'm working on lines xxx-yyy," or something like that to help keep track of progress.  The comments are numbered as well, so editors can also specify which effects they are working on by number.  I can color code the parts that are "under construction" to note what is in progress, what is partially completed (for instance, the sandstorm scene might be visually completed, but still will need dubbing), and what is completed.  Hopefully this is sufficient for everyone.

 

I still need a revised script for that...just sayin' :P 

darth_ender said:

So here is my "color-corrected" (meaning somewhat improved, but still quite lacking) version of the very yellow Star Tours source:

http://www.2shared.com/video/wtV9BeNg/star_tours.html

Check it out.  It shows what can be done in just an hour with crappy footage, a worse than novice editor, using non-intuitive software that crashed on him three time.  Imagine if a real pro tried his hand at this!  Also, I don't have that DVD with me right now, and I'm not actually sure it is a higher quality digital copy, but if it is, I could upload it and let someone who really knows what they're doing toy around with it.  Perhaps it can be made useful.

Just some input: I'd much rather have an HD version of this edit, even at the cost of keeping this material out of the final product. 

darth_ender said:

It's actually been pretty slow, but the biggest news is that we're seeking out new footage.  We've come up with some material from both Star Tours releases and an old Star Wars board game.

So some bad news.  The video collector who assured me that the version of Star Tours he was selling me was not the same as the YouTube yellow version...yeah, it's the exact same video.  Well, maybe it's good enough to be color corrected, but once again, I can't do it, and people here are already so busy taking care of real life and addressing other aspects of editing.  I had my hopes pretty high, and I'm honestly really disappointed.  Can it be fixed?  Does anyone want to try to correct at least portions of it?

EDIT: I shouldn't wallow in self-pity.  I hope everything's okay, MrInsaneA.  We're glad you're back!

Oh, I did forget to mention that I'm trying to organize the needed edits so that folks can more easily know which aspects to tackle and what is needed.  Again, it takes a while, but I'm trying to get it ready.

I'd like to know WHAT I'm basing my rough draft on. A revised version of the script would be nice, since a lot of voting would've changed the material.

Sorry I've been gone so long guys. Had some personal stuff to deal with.

Anyone wanna fill me in on what's been going on here? 

Harmy said:

Well, that's the thing, I quite like Boba too, or rather I like the character as he was introduced in ESB; a mysterious, ruthless, clever bounty hunter who only cares if he gets paid. In ROTJ he basically became just one of Jabba's cohorts (which was only reinforced by his even stupider appearance in ANH SE), and a pretty lame one at that, seeing as how all his attempts to stop Luke prove completely fruitless and then he dies because he can't control his own jet-pack... If I like a character, it doesn't mean I'll enjoy seeing him no matter how lame his actions on screen. It's kind of similar to the way lightsabres were way overused in the prequels - everybody loves lightsabres, they're cool, they're possibly the coolest weapon in a movie ever, so the more the better, right? Wrong! In the OT lightsabres weren't overused, so whenever we saw one, it was like "oh yeah, this is cool!" You don't get that feeling in the prequels, because there's a lightsabre on screen like 80% of the film's runtime.

By that logic, since there are so many laser blasts in ANH, lasers must be lame.

I get what you're trying to say, but less is more doesn't always apply. But that's just my opinion. 

Harmy said:

I still think that removing Boba completely would be a better idea but this could definitely work and I'm sure that with some care it could be done. Definitely makes Boba's death less embarrassing.

But see, a LOT of people like Boba. I even like him with his lame death in ROTJ, it only mildly bothers me.

Well Ronster, the idea is sound, I will say that. If we can pull it off and make it flow and make sense and most importantly LOOK GOOD...I'm all for it.

xhonzi said:

MrInsaneA said:

I don't think anyone thought Luke was going to be a villain at the START of ROTJ. And he seemed fine at the end of Empire, albeit with a robot hand. I think this might be reading too much into things. But again, just my opinion.

 My friends and I were all a tad worried.

To each his own. However, I agree with Bingowings, Dagobah before Tatooine is really the way to go.

xhonzi said:

I won't be the first person to say this, but I will be the first person to say this in this thread:

As much as I agree that it makes storytelling sense that Luke was with Yoda since the end of ESB, and that the "now I am a Jedi" and whatnot is well placed ahead of his assault on Jabba's palace...

I think it really wrecks Luke's introduction in the film.  Unknown months have passed since we last saw Luke, and he was pretty messed up.  Regarding the reveal that Vader is/was his father, the audience isn't quite sure if Luke will be the hero we need him to be, or the villain he could be.

When he shows up all in black and uses his Jedi powers to still the gamorreans and mind trick the twi'lek... well... I think we're supposed to be a little unsure of the guy.

Also, who's under the hood isn't revealed for a few moments either.

I also think that the Yoda scene is a nice 2nd act scene structurally, and it doesn't really fit at the very start of the film.

Obviously this noble quest you're all on will at best produce an alternate RotJ, so if the rest of you prefer to sacrifice the film logic for story logic, that's fine... but it probably won't be definitive to me.

At any rate... good luck!

I don't think anyone thought Luke was going to be a villain at the START of ROTJ. And he seemed fine at the end of Empire, albeit with a robot hand. I think this might be reading too much into things. But again, just my opinion.

darth_ender said:

Well, that makes sense.  But then Padme could never be too pregnant throughout the movie till the end.  Even 9 months isn't very long to kill all the Jedi masters yourself, and she's pregnant when she meets him on Mustafar.  Making the babies come sooner would not only mean shrinking her tummy, but also explaining a number of plot difficulties, such as why she'd fear have the babies without him knowing, why Obi-wan is present, etc.  So I guess a storyline like you indicate would mean aalenfae would need to shrink her belly for much of the movie.

While detracting from the Ben/Ani climax, it still seems easier and more justifiable to include at least something in the end (I would imagine a several year project hunting down the Jedi).  Perhaps Order 66 would remain where it is now, albeit given by Anakin instead of Palpatine, and of course a tad shorter.  Then have armored Anakin/Vader continue killing off more Jedi afterwards.  This way many of the Jedi wouldn't even know who their assassin really was anyway, maintaining the galactic mystery of, "Who the heck is Palpatine's new henchman?"

8 months is more then enough time to kill all the Jedi...hell, I think 2 weeks is more then enough. There's like what, 200 Jedi? 300? And an infinite number of clone troopers. 

darth_ender said:

What I mean is Leia goes to Alderaan (with Padme?).  Luke goes to Tatooine.  Vader kills lots of Jedi.  Obi-wan and Vader duel.  Why would Bail, Obi-wan, and Yoda be having this sort of retreat if the Jedi haven't yet been defeated.

No.....my suggestion was Vader kills Jedi, we just show him do it over a longer stretch of time. Then he goes to Mustafar, then Padme finds him, final duel, and then Bail Obi-Wan and Yoda retreat. Sorry if that was unclear.

darth_ender said:

That could be good as well.  And even then, perhaps not that difficult.  Just show a guy in a dark robe doing the fighting, and aalenfae wouldn't have to find a Hayden lookalike.  I just always pictured most of the murders done while Vader was armored.

Of course, the difficulty with this scenario is how aalenfae would work it into the existing plot.  Might be difficult to alter the explanations for things.  But maybe not.  I dunno.  I really like the idea of keeping Padme alive on Alderaan, but how to split the kids if she's still alive and Vader is undefeated and the Jedi still live...?

The Jedi don't live though....?

darth_ender said:

So we've had several votes come in already.  If you haven't voted, I think I'd like it by Sunday morning so I can tally everything on a day off from school and work.

Still not much happening at the other forum.  I hope it was a good idea (it wasn't mine).  It feels like a lot of the energy was sapped from this thread, which is of course to be expected when ideas are being solidified and everyone has a real life.  I just hope it doesn't die.  I'd really like to see this thing through.

So I may have secured a digital copy of the Star Wars Interactive Video Board Game movie.  The plot, it turns out, revolves around the DSII prior to Endor, and the DSII had a functioning superlaser and was going to destroy some Rebel planet.  It gets sabotaged and leaves it in the state we see it in ROTJ.  This is why I don't give a crap about most EU anymore, because even silly storylines that clearly conflict with the OT are made into some level of canon.  But what I like about it is the fact that David Prowse was filmed aboard a Death Star set and James Earl Jones recorded new lines for it.  I have no idea what one sees or what is said, but maybe even a little something could be useful.  I'm sure the video quality isn't great, being taken from a VHS, but who knows?  The audio could be a treasure trove, however, as the movie is an hour long.

This made me wonder if there is other potentially useful audio just waiting to be exploited.  The first thought that came to me was from the Holiday Special where Vader and Bast are chatting.  "I want the Rebels located and identified [a pause long enough for a natural cut] if it means searching every household in the system."  Possibly useful, though I wouldn't know where to put it.  But I wonder if there are other Jones as Vader recordings that could be useful, or even recordings of other actors.  If the lines are short, we may find something close to what we were planning, such as Mark Hamill saying he needed to do some "thinking."  If you guys can think of any potential sources, let us know."

The guy from the video game The Force Unleashed does an almost spot on Vader impression. 

darth_ender said:

Exactly!  I'd like that a lot better.  I wouldn't mind seeing Padme living and going to Alderaan with all this.  It seems fitting to me.  It wouldn't have to be long or distract from the climax of the Mustafar duel too much.  It would lead into the Death Star ending better, which shouldn't have taken 20 years to complete with the Empire's resources, regardless of strikes and holidays and whatever excuses certain persons make for it.

A little unorthodox though....I like the idea a LOT, but I'm worried it would detract from the final Mustafar duel. There needs to be a lot of emotion in that fight, which I feel would only come from Vader previously killing jedi.

Why not edit it so that Anakin's going around the galaxy killing jedi BEFORE the Mustafar duel? Like you said, make him the one to shoot down Plo Koon instead of some clone, add other scenes, stuff like that. It would imply a longer stretch of time, and would really rack up the anticipation for the final battle between Kenobi and Anakin.

Wexter said:

Finally something more to look forward to! I loved TRM but I am a bit worried about this one. The movie is so goddamn stupid that it would take one hell of a Frink to make it at least watchable. It is pretty ridiculous on its own, but in the worst way possible. Anyway, I absolutely love the Saturday Night Fever suggestion. Here is some of mine.

Anakin should deliver some lines by Tommy Wiseau, the acting is performance and I believe lines such as "So anyway, how's your sexlife?" or "They're using me and I'm the fool." should fit in nicely ;)

Yoda needs to jump around a lot.

Anakin and Obi-Wan cause a bunch of accidents while chasing the bounty hunter, Cobra 11 style.

Bunch of dinosaurs walk in front of the camera during the picnic scene.

Replace random shots with green screen footage or animations from the DVDs.

Give Jango Fett Tom Seleck's moustache. In fact give Boba one too, for continuity and sith.

Obi-Wan should haggle for drugs.

The assasin droid cuts a hole in the window and opens fire while the Jedi are still bickering in the next room. 

Aaaaand... Ric Olie should narrate the whole thing.

 

Okay, some of those will probably need to wait for AOTRSE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW_xdftOspA

Well now you HAVE to have the Tommy Wiseau lines, for consistincey's sake.  

Darth Lars said:

From http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/magazine/george-lucas-red-tails.html?pagewanted=3&_r=4&hpw

“On the Internet, all those same guys that are complaining I made a change are completely changing the movie,” Lucas says, referring to fans who, like the dreaded studios, have done their own forcible re-edits. “I’m saying: ‘Fine. But my movie, with my name on it, that says I did it, needs to be the way I want it.’ ”

Does this mean that GL does not want his name in Adywan's fan edit?

I propose that his name in the credits be changed into "Alan Smithee" to make GL happy ...

Eh....George bashing aside, he has a very valid point.

DominicCobb said:

MrInsaneA said:

darth_ender said:

A few typos and a repeated item on the ballot, but can't bother to take it back now.  Oh well.  Hope it's a useful way of doing the vote.

So I've decided now is the time to release the url to the new forum.  It's simple, but I think it should meet the needs of the editing crew.

http://collab.forumcircle.com/portal.php

Still waiting on GoodMusician and Jaitea to register, and there's not much activity yet, but that's to be expected given busy schedules and not much to report yet.  Hopefully the editors can make some tentative timetables so we know generally when to expect updates and to keep each other motivated.

I'm thinking of adding a single forum where guests can comment.  However, I'm not sure how wise that is, because I hope people will keep most comments here.  Let me know what you guys think.  No one will be able to register without a passcode, but if desired, folks can at least say, "Good job."

And a final note: we REALLY could use someone willing to do a rough edit of the whole film for the editors to use as a framework.  As the edit progresses, altered and fixed scenes can replace the old versions (i.e. emanswfan's improved deleted sandstorm scene could replace the BD version).  This way we can also see how simple editing choices work, such as the altered Endor battle, the droids falling directly onto the skiff (assuming that passes the vote), the placing of Dagobah and Vader reaching out to Luke in the beginning, etc.  It wouldn't have to be perfect, particularly sound-wise.  I think it would simply be a means of visualizing many of the changes and pacing.

WHOEVER VOLUNTEERS TO MAKE THE ROUGH EDIT AUTOMATICALLY GETS ACCESS TO THE NEW FORUM, for what it's worth to you.  You'd get more input on the process and get earlier updates.  Please, we really could use an editor to spare the special effects team the work of doing extraneous stuff and allowing them to focus on the actual effects.

I will do it!

That's so wizard!

*in Shmi Skywalker voice* I ahve geeven halp to dose who ahve nun!

darth_ender said:

BTW, I included the Ric Olie cameo as only a semi-serious item, and suggested Frink voice him as a complete joke I made up at the last minute.  I'm surprised how well Olie is doing and Frink's voicing him is doing!

Looks like your idea.....

CAUGHT ON PRETTY QUICK.