MrInsaneA

SpilkaBilka said:

The ROTJ briefing is awful in so many ways.

Hey, who wants to be a general?  We'll take anyone!  We don't really have any qualified pilots to lead this Death Star assault- certainly not anyone who's loyal, has experience in many battles, and has gone up against a Death Star before (ahem WEDGE ANTILLES cough).  So how about the sketchy guy who ran a gas mine and hasn't done any meaningful piloting in years?  Good choice.  Oh by the way, he made a deal with Darth Vader to capture PRINCESS LEIA and her friends so that Vader could freeze LUKE F'N SKYWALKER in carbonite and give him to the Emperor.  But he was in that Tanaab battle or something?  Sure, what the hell.

Next!

Ok, now, we're about to launch the most important ground assault in Rebel Alliance history- the fate of the galaxy hinges on it.  Let's see... we have a guy who's known as a great PILOT and smuggler... though to his credit I guess he's broken in an out of some strongholds before.  Sure, why not.  Oh also, he's been frozen in carbonite for like 2 years, so his eyesight might be a little screwed up and I'm guessing his muscles have atrophied and maybe he's gone a little crazy.  Oh yeah, he hasn't led any sort of ground operation since he's been frozen for 2 years, and this'll be his first mission as a general, so he might need some catching up on the latest Imperial procedures and methods, and his aim might be a little off.  You can probably get him up to speed on all that on the flight to Endor.  But yeah, good choice, doesn't look like we have anyone else.

He seems prepared too- he doesn't have a crew for the shuttle, but I'm sure some of his buddies will just volunteer DURING THE BRIEFING.  Last minute, who cares?  No big deal.  Make sure to take the useless, shiny, talkative protocol droid with you too on this important subterfuge operation that's going to require stealth.

Hey Luke- no, no problem!  Juts barge right into the middle of the most important mission briefing in rebel history!  You forgot your ID?  No biggie, I'm sure the guy just waved you in.  We're all friends here in the Alliance.  Oh, you don't want to fly an X-Wing?  We were kind of counting on you since you blew up the first Death Star, and you might be the best pilot in the galaxy.  But yeah, no worries, just be a crew member on the shuttle.  That's the best use of your skills.

So, you guys ready?  Alright, let's blow up this Death Star!!!  But don't forget to have some fun out there!!!

If anyone else wants to be a general, let us know!

Sigh.

"Don't forget to have fun out there!"

But...that's what these films are about. :p

Bingowings said:

Just add Luke to the briefing and cut Han building his team on the spot.

A general would issue orders through official channels and not by emotionally blackmailing them in the middle of a briefing.

You wouldn't see that scene in either of the previous films.

It's really clumsily constructed.

Han Solo's not really a general though. He's a scoundrel who's been put in the position of a general.

And "emotional blackmailing?" C'mon. 

DominicCobb said:

gobalicious said:

Bingowings said:

MrInsaneA said:

DominicCobb said:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. There's not much of a point to preserving the OT secrets in the PT, especially not if you're trying to create a definitive edit saga.

Exactly. Plus the OT is so ingrained in pop culture there's no POINT in keeping the secrets anymore. 

That's like saying the crapness of the PT is so ingrained in pop culture there's no POINT in changing it.

The point is providing a demonstration of the PT as it could have been, and providing an alternative to how it turned out.

It's episodes 1 to 3 so we shouldn't have the surprises to 4 spoiled.

I'd always be interested in seeing a saga edit where the surprises of the OT are preserved, but I fear such doing a thing detracts from the very reasons the story of the PT is so interesting.

To me, the most compelling point of making a PT in the first place is to show the transformation of Anakin Skywalker to Darth Vader.  Hiding that transformation creates a giant hole in the story and will ultimately leave me unsatisfied (unless a clever editor can prove me wrong). 

The only compelling argument there is to preserve the surprises is simply because the episodes are numbered 1-6.  I view the episode numbers merely as chronological indicators, having nothing to do with a preferred viewing order.  Perhaps that is misleading to a first-time viewer, but hopefully other means can be used to convey otherwise. 

I've always thought the saga was meant to be viewed for the first time as 4-6 and 1-3.  4-6 is a classic tale that assures us good will always triumph over evil, building our interest in this far away galaxy and its people.  1-3 is a cautionary tale that shows how that evil arose in the first place, having lessons that are close to home.  A fun adventure story turns complex and thought-provoking.  I fear chopping up 1-3, merely to preserve a supposed viewing order, can damage a better, more complete story.

 

Yeah, this. Seriously guys, how much would you have hated it if the prequels didn't reveal how Anakin became Vader? A lot, I would guess. But maybe I'm wrong. I thought that was the reason the PT was made in the first place.

Now, I know there's a lot of different stories flying around out there, but there's no way you can say that they made the OT first by mistake. When they put "Episode V" in ESB, it was firstly just a throwback. It didn't imply that you had to watch episodes 1, 2, and 3 first. Then they decided that they were going to make the first three episodes. And you know what? nothing can change the fact that the PT was made after the OT on purpose. Despite what Lucas says, the PT was most certainly made to be seen after the OT. 

But okay, I get that you want to make the stupid episode order work. But you know what? That just dilutes the OT in my opinion, and the PT (which you certainly do not want diluted, because, you know, you're trying to make it better). 

Here's something I wrote in the "Integrating the two trilogies" thread:

 

1. I know the twist. You know the twist. We all know the twist. You aren't fooling me by killing Anakin in ROTS.

2. Yeah, but so what right? Well, know. The prequels were made to show us how Anakin became Vader. When I watch the prequels I want to see how Anakin became Vader.

3. Yeah but what about the people who don't know the twist? Who? Kidding. No, I think for people who honestly don't know the twist, showing them a version of the PT that "preserves the twist" before the OT is a mistake. WHY? Because the twist is diluted. HOW? Well, let's see

a. Obi-Wan lied! Oh wait, we already knew that.

b. Anakin turned to the dark side! Oh wait, we already knew that. A significant amount of the twist's shock comes from realizing that Luke's father (that great jedi that Luke is trying so hard to follow) became a sith. Really, without this, you're left with this: Anakin is still alive! And he's this guy in the black suit who showed up and has been in the past two episodes! Yeah, not too shocking.

4. You should really watch the OT first. Or at least make it 4-5-1-2-3-6. Contrary to what Lucas says, the PT was not made to be watched before the OT. The PT would have made very little money if no OT fans saw it. The PT was made with the mindset that "people have seen the OT." I realize this isn't much of a reason, because this is one of the things that people try to fix with fan edits, but I'm just saying I would never show someone the PT before the OT. Even if it was fan edited.

Now I'm going to ease back and say that I don't necessarily mind an edit that tries to "preserve the twist" (it would be interesting to watch [and, by the way, the way to do it is to remove Skywalker from Anakin's name. So we know he's Vader, but we just don't know he's Luke's father]), but if I want to watch a definitive ROTS/PT edit/s, I want to see how Anakin became Vader. Not even if I'm watching 4-5-6-1-2-3 or 4-5-1-2-3-6, but even if I'm watching chronological, I know the twist, so I want to see everything that happens. I don't want to miss out on seeing something just because a twist that I already know is being "preserved." 

My two cents.

 

A hell of a two cents, if you ask me. 

DominicCobb said:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. There's not much of a point to preserving the OT secrets in the PT, especially not if you're trying to create a definitive edit saga.

Exactly. Plus the OT is so ingrained in pop culture there's no POINT in keeping the secrets anymore. 

I don't understand the point of even concealing the Vader/Anakin identity anymore. It's just gonna cause problems for a prequel fan edit. 

Hokey religions are no match for a good blaster at your side, kids. 

Bingowings said:

Not sure if serious GIF

Hahaha, I am though. I really like it. So many feels, reminds me of Vader's death....which yes, can be a bad thing if you're trying to disassociate the PT from the OT...but why would you want that? 

Oh God, please don't change the O.T. Vader music. Please God, don't change it. It's so great. 

Bingowings said:

muddyknees has said this about three times now I can't see why these posts keep popping up.

There is a more matte finish to Vader in the opening shots that isn't present in the rest of the film.

So for the sake of continuity it may make sense to add some shine to the image but nobody has suggested replacing the image in this project (other than the hologram which needs fixing).

The added shine is a possible rejig of an EP IV element not an EP V element.

ROTJ:R will come before anyone has to cross that bridge.

Oh thank the Force, I thought you'd all went insane for a moment.

Yeah, I could dig some added shininess. Sounds groovy, yo.

Replacing ANH Vader would be a crime I can't even begin to fathom. No. NO.

So....how are things, Aaln? 

So....this isn't out yet, is it? Damn. 

darth_ender said:

The Miracle Maker did pull it off quite well, didn't it? I really like that film. :)

Yeah, it certainly would be "artsy," as you say, and take a willingness to jump in styles.  However, I only think the jump would need to be in Episode II.  Episode I would be focused on finding Anakin, fighting Maul and defeating him, then Anakin growing up and finding interest in Padme, while we find that Dooku is on the scene and starting the Clone Wars.  Episode II would be about Maul's return and second defeat, develop Dooku's rogue side, the ongoing Clone Wars, and the intro to Grievous.  Episode III would be about Dooku's defeat, the end of the Clone Wars, Anakin's fall, and the realization that Palpatine was the puppeteer the whole time.  So the only jump would be between episodes, not within.  But still, like you said, it would take a willingness to jump.  Perhaps the cartoon could be used like you said.

But as I said before, I haven't watched much of the show, so really I'm just speculating, and even those who have haven't seen the end of it.  I'm just thinking of an alternate way to tell the story.  And yes, MrInsaneA, I have wondered about how difficult it would be to decide what stories to tell in a film that's no longer than 150 minutes.

Which is why I think it would be prudent to do an edit of the show AS IF YOU WERE FAN EDITING A WHOLE TV SEASON instead of a movie

darth_ender said:

Ah, very cool.  This really gets me thinking...if Maul remains the primary villain in a trilogy as I've suggested, it means that Dooku can be scaled back a great deal, but still left in.  I know many have toyed with the rogue Jedi, thought, and perhaps that could still be implemented.  He could remain an unwitting puppet to Darth Sidious, but not a willing apprentice.  In Ep III, all references to Palpatine aboard Grievous's ship would be removed, and Grievous would merely be Dooku's General.  Dooku really would be a Force user who simply wanted to expand his powers, but not an all-out Sith.  He ultimately takes his Separatists and parts from the Republic, and while his methods may be grim, he is not purely evil, but rather a misguided Force user.  I dunno, just tossing ideas out there.  Nothing could possibly happen till the series is over anyway.

EDIT: Here's the pictue I was referring to.  Not sure if it's a real screenshot or someone's attempt to replicate it, but here it is anyway.

I've always intended to have Dooku be a rogue Jedi. Just makes more sense that way.

As for a Clone Wars edit...I feel like you'd have to fan edit the whole series, or at least most of it. There are too many great storylines (besides the MAUL one, which is pretty damn good.) to NOT include. 

darth_ender said:

Thanks :)  Any ideas on potential alternate "apprentices" that could leave audiences wondering who might be Vader?

Nope, but I have an idea on how you can include Maul more as a character....because it looks like he's Season 5's main villain!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVad0StJ-dw&feature=player_embedded

darth_ender said:

I've suggested this before, but I'm going to expand on it a bit.  In my mind, the PT should have centered on the Clone Wars.  But if you're just watching the films, the Clone Wars exist as little more than a battle at the end of Ep II and a battle in the opening of Ep III.  When I saw Ep III, I'd never seen any Clone Wars material, and therefore felt a bit cheated.

I think a brilliant way to edit the whole trilogy would require an adaptation to a different "stylistic choice."  In other words, I think a cross between Ep I and Ep II should be Ep I, Ep III should be Ep III, but Ep II should be an edit of the Clone Wars series.  I have a feeling that time lapses could be inferred, various battles shown, and still it not feel rushed.  Ideas that would need to be included would be a few battles, a proper introduction to General Grievous, a reintroduction to Darth Maul, and ultimately Palpatine's capture (hopefully shown when they wrap up the series).

This would improve the whole trilogy in multiple ways: it would keep a more consistent bad guy (Maul comes back), makes Maul a useful character that we care about killing in Ep III, and makes the war feel like the focus of the trilogy, not a cheesy romance.  Perhaps we could even see Anakin's fall as a bit more realistic, as we might see him making other angry choices, and not just those motivated by his love for Shmi or Padme.

My reason for reposting this thought is that I know Maul lives in the series.  I haven't seen the episodes and I have avoided reading spoilers for when I eventually do, but I don't know how they explain how he survived.  But perhaps, if the proper footage survives, someone could sell his survival for another episode.

Darth Maul was not severed in press releases of Ep I.  I have seen a picture somewhere, though I can't find it.  However, it is mentioned here:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120915/alternateversions

If that footage (bootlegged, most likely) could be found, it would make his survival more believable and lead well to a sequel.

EDIT: It occurs to me that perhaps there may also be footage in The Clone Wars that might help resolve my previous comment, in that perhaps it could be made to appear that another Jedi trainee becomes Vader, or at least that Obi-Wan has other trainees that could take the job.  I haven't seen many episodes, though, so I don't know.

This. Is. Genius.

aalenfae said:

Wow! So much feedback that I don't even know what to do with it all! 

 

I'll address a few things, though.
I'm leaning towards KEEPING the seismic charges.

Corellian77:
Thanks for that idea! I'm glad somebody else thinks like that. I'm actually working on making the shockwave/explosion not blue, but removing the color so radically does make the effect look kind of... dirty. I'm still working on it, though. I might be able to work something up. I'll post my progress!

Another note about seismic charges: 

Regardless of how much people don't like the prequels and perhaps this scene in particular, that scene (or at least that part of the scene) has become something of a classic moment. It'd be like cutting out the Quad-Gun scene from ANH because it was unnecessary (which it really is). But no... it's a classic scene, and it belongs in the movie. The seismic charges are something unique and (regardless of how senseless they are plot-wise and weaponry-wise), pretty dang cool.

(But they're in Rogue Squadron 3, and they're pretty stinking dangerous - despite their 2D nature)

Now, on to the edit in general.
I appreciate all the feedback, but I'm going to say what I'm NOT looking for. And that's a complete re-structuring of the movie. 

I'm of the camp that the prequels really aren't THAT bad as they stand. I'm really just trying to make them marginally better at least. While some scenes will face some severe cuts, I'm really not looking to change the actual material all THAT much (beyond color correction and some bonus goodies like that). If that makes sense.

Personally, I would love to remake the prequels from scratch, as I think I have a better story in mind. BUT, such radical changes are simply not possible with the source material given to us, so... it will have to stay. I love the more radical ideas, so keep 'em coming! They give me great ideas to use, but just keep in mind that I'm really not looking for huge, massive changes. 

That being said, I have a very... interesting change I've made to a particular scene involving C-3P0, which I'll post in a few hours. I hope you guys like it! :)

Oh, you tease, you. :D

And glad your keeping the seismic charges. I've always dug them, regardless of their impracticality.  

obikal said:

Idea about Jango and the assassination plot:

 

Any reason Zam needs to stay in the movie at all?

What about cutting out the worm assassination attempt and ensuing chase out all altogether?

General order of events:

(Seciors has a great new intro idea for Ep 2 over at fanedit.org - have the movie start with Count Dooku and the Emperor)

• landing dock assassination attempt
• Padme deleted scene addressing the Senate
• Obi and Anakin scene in front of the Jedi Council being tasked to investigate the threat, and for Anakin to protect Padme
• Anakin and Padme packing scene (need re-introduction just before this scene?)
• Anakin and Padme departure scene - instead of registered transport, they board a different ship (idea to come below)
• As they are leaving, Jango shows up just outside the Coruscant atmosphere to shoot them down - Anakin shows off his flying skills and blasts into hyperspace just in time  - should be easy Aalenfae!  XD
• Obi deleted scene of analyzing the toxic dart - redubbed to say "unusual shrapnel found at the Senator's landing dock"

 

Continue from here...

These wouldn't be all the scenes, just a general flow.

 

Aalenfae, love the idea that you're working on more than just Ep 3!  Your work has all been great!  Thanks!

I totally dig the "Jango trying to shoot Anakin down, and Anakin evading him" thing. It sounds like it'd be a pain in the dick to pull off, but if you could do it Aalanfae, it would be amazing.

Evin Jade said:

How about some more radical approach?

http://youtu.be/lRMDHDIEmvA

Sorry for crude editing and quality - it was done very quick.. Of course, music, effects etc need to be tighten up.

I'm try to describe this scene in short. Jango plays cat & mouse with Obi up until he's shooting a rocket. No stupid seismic charges and gunfire - Fett came from behind and do his job. IMO, in that way, two of them are not complete morons and know what they doing. Just strait to the point action scene.

p.s.: Some more build up before rocket shoot may also help. And we never see Jango's face.

How are they morons? This appears to be one of those "da prequelz r stoopid" arguments that doesn't have a lot of weight. No offense of course, I just don't get how either one of them looks dumb. 

Also, a looootttttt of people like the seismic charges, including me. If only for that sound-barrier breaking thing they do. :p 

aalenfae said:

Thanks for the high praise, MrInsaneA! 
Though I am still tweaking it! :)

Titus, I like your idea about not showing Jango's face at all during the scene. It might work pretty well, and I'll give it a try. 
And I think your point about the ships just flying around doing nothing is valid. Watching the clip again, it does seem like they just fly around doing nothing for a little too long. I'll see what I can do.

(And yes, I can't wait until I get some good 1080 footage of "1313" cutscenes. But that'll have to wait until the game's out, probably.) 

I wouldn't say they're doing nothing. They're avoiding asteroids. Add some music, I'm sure it will heighten the tension. And as far as Jango goes, don't cut too much out, or you won't have a scene at all! 

Coov said:

I always hated how all of that laser fire flies in front of the ship.  As Jango turns, the lasers would still be heading in the direction they were heading to begin with. 

Watching that clip I thought it may be pretty cool if Obi has R4 prepare the spare part canisters before Jango even fires that over the top heat seeking mistle thingy.

How the hell would Obi-Wan know to do that?

aalenfae said:

I, too, am leaning toward my first-choice music. 
It's a more appropriate track to use as an atmospheric bed to the scene, much like the Cantina music from ANH. My second-choice music is too... sporadic and disorienting. Something that might fit the mood, but not the environment so well.
The smooth jazz piece also sounds more seedy, I think.

I like your dialogue suggestion. There's actually a lot of dialogue there that I'd rather have as silence. I just wonder if we might still see the mouths moving. I'll look into it.



Ah! I've really just realized that my "RotS" thread has started to become an AotC thread. Maybe I'd best rename the thread to "Aalenfae's Prequels" instead? 


 Here's a clip I've been working on:

http://vimeo.com/47563652

Oh God, this is the best edit of the Asteroid sequence I've ever seen. This is honestly as good as the scene will ever be.

<p>The Nemoidians viewscreen....I lol'd.</p>

<p>Has anyone considered getting rid of the Griveous lightsaber fight completely?&nbsp;</p>

<blockquote>
<p><strong>krloz</strong> said:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><strong>fgqb#19nyj</strong> said:</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>I haven't seen too many Menace edits, but I figure I can bring up this idea, anyway.</p>
<p><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469);">Before the actual film's release, I watched the Siskel and Ebert review and one of the things he mentioned about the movie is the reintroduction of the lightsaber, which after seeing the movie I came to agree. I never liked how, in a state of panic, the Jedi jumped up from the table and ignited their lightsabers. It seemed so unlike a Jedi to be scared like that, and it also made the lightsabers first appearance in the Prequels less dramatic as it was in the OT.</span></p>
<p><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469);">Here's what I would do, if I had the skill and wit, that is.</span></p>
<p><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469);">After the Neimoidians contact Sidious about what to do, I would place the protocol droid serving drinks scene at this point, and while the Jedi are just sitting there with their drinks, I would then place the dioxus gas coming through the vent scene, so we know how the Trade Federation plan to kill them. The next time we should see Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, is when the battle droids open the door to the gas filled reception room. This should be, in my opinion, the first time we get to see their ancient weapons come to life in the Prequels. I feel it would be a lot better than what Lucas decided on.</span></p>
<p><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469);">Well, good luck with your edit.</span></p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Great! I'm going to try it. Actually I initially tried to keep the scene but rotoscoping out the lightsabers and only show them with the hilts but it didn't work. Anyway, thank you for suggestions.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Dude, keep trying with that "just the hilts" idea. If you can get it to work, it'd be perfect.&nbsp;</p>