MrInsaneA

jonathan7 said:

MrInsaneA said:

Does anybody know of footage from other films that would work as establishing shots for INSIDE the Jedi Temple? I want the look of a monastery with a twist. Spiritual and beautiful. I however, don' know where to look for such footage. 

Depends what your looking for off the top of my head possibles I can think of; Lord of the Rings... Especially Rivendale or Minas Tirith may work. Equilibrium, the main hall shots of the Celerics Headquarters? Some of the interior shots of the Emporers Palace in Gladiator? The League of Shadows place in Batman Begins? There are some oriental films such as Hero, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon and Anna and the King all may also have interior shots which could be used.

Those are some fantastic suggestions sir.

darth_ender said:

^^ It's true, the rebel commandos all disappear.  What happened?!  This was my biggest gripe with Disney's Mulan...they train a bunch of warriors to battle against the Huns, and by the time they are actually facing them, they realize they are outnumbered!  What a shock, considering 99.4% desertion!  It may sound petty, but that single fact ruined the movie for me because it so completely shattered the drama and suspense--I couldn't stop thinking about how idiotic the main characters must be.

Wow, really digressed there!  Sorry, but back to the point, since no one really cares much what the commandos look like, some doubles who bear even a passing resemblance could be filmed to add to the commando action.  Heck, they must be good to be brought on a mission like this, capable of holding their own against bad odds for a time.

 

The Vader pic makes me LOL so much. I just picture the Emperor walking up to his throne, and Vader sitting there with all the Rebels. "Guess who switched sides?"

Bingowings said:

I'd definitely replace Admiral Ackbar's second in command with a human.

The mask doesn't move, the line sounds too comedic for such a pivotal scene.

"It's a trap!" is pretty much sacred ground but the line before could be delivered by anyone other than a silly voice, played over a man in an inarticulate mask.

I agree wholeheartedly. He sounds like a human, he doesn't even have the Mon Calamari accent thingy. 

ben_danger said:

i was thinking that perhaps the ewoks cause the diversion that the rebels need to gain the upperhand. we see them show up in force, and then the imperials chase them off, leaving the shield generator unprotected. no bear antics. then the deleted footage of the rebels taking the bunker could be inserted perhaps?

Sounds good. but I still think some sort of forest battle needs to go on between rebels and imperials. 

Bingowings said:

MrInsaneA said: See, for this whole "Anakin totally isn't Darth Vader" trick to work, you'd have to remove Episode III entirely though. "He helped the Empire hunt down the Jedi Knights." Hmmm, sounds suspiciously like Anakin. Wait, isn't Anakin dead? Or wait....is he the big black robot dude? Wait, Obi-Wan said he wasn't, he said it was his old pupil. But his old pupil never had any motive, because we never saw him on screen. Huh. Anakin's probably Vader then.

Honestly, it's painfully obvious either way.  

The only time we see Anakin kill Jedi is the Temple scene and he doesn't hunt down and destroy them.

He knows where they are and kills them.

Grievous on the other hand makes sport of hunting and killing Jedi (even collecting their sabers for trophies).

If you removed or adjusted the temple scene the only Jedi Anakin fights is Obi-Wan.

Lucas really screwed up the Jedi purge thing in my book.

Suited Vader should have been with those troops chasing down the Jedi on those planets over months and years.

But seeing as the clones seem so proficient at killing Jedi on their own and child massacre is difficult to square with any form of redemption I'm not sure how essential Anakin is to the temple sequence.

It's a bit of cheat but other than writing a whole new prequel trilogy it's for the moment the best I can offer, though I'm always open to new ideas.

Here's an idea: if you're new to Star Warsm watch 4-6 then 1-3. Or retitle ANH "Episode 1" That makes the most sense. 

darth_ender said:

The more and more I read this, the more and more I like the idea.  Still, like I said, nothing overbearing, but the Rebellion is a ragtag force, and they will scrounge what they can get.  It would be awesome to see little samplings from different parts of the PT throughout, but as mentioned, stripped down with chipping paint, etc.  As we mentioned before, maybe include some female pilots and redubbing the male dubbed female pilot.  Include the Sullustan, maybe other species and races (only one black pilot I noticed in the OT, just in time to get torched).  Maybe we could even have Ric Olie as an old man make a cameo!  Okay, maybe not, but I agree, the Battle of Endor should be crazy, and I personally hope Adywan does indeed include the Jerjerrod to vaporize Endor subplot, as it increases our anxiety for the final moment...hopefully someone will clean up these deleted scenes for him.

I'm also of the mindset that the Battle of Endor should be more Rebel Toopy-vs-Stormtroopy. I mean for God's sake "A legion of my best troops?" Single handedly defeated by Ewoks? 

timdiggerm said:

Hm.. Yeah, good point. Unless we can also get Greivous to switch sides or something.

I guess this is why Ady has his plan of adding an entirely new character, a second pupil for Kenobi. Which sounds insane, but it's Ady.

I don't think Adywan EVER said that. If so, then he truly is insane. Like seriously crazy. In a good way, but still.

Bingowings said:

I'd remove the connection to Sidious myself.

I'd have Dooku know all about Sith Sidious and be against him (through people like Gunray who were duped by him) and have him convinced he is someone high up in the Republic.

The Jedi come to think Dooku himself is the Sith Lord.

As for giving Obi-Wan a pupil I already suggested a solution there (I'm sure there are other ways of doing it).

Obi-Wan in episode one isn't Qui-Gon's student.

He is a fully trained Jedi Knight paired with Qui-Gon for a private investigation into the Naboo affair.

That way when Obi-Wan is adamant that he be allowed to train Anakin the line about already having a student is transfered to him instead of Qui-Gon.

That kid who played young Boba would be an ideal choice.

He could be trained by someone else (Dooku?) and Obi-Wan could train Anakin.

See, for this whole "Anakin totally isn't Darth Vader" trick to work, you'd have to remove Episode III entirely though. "He helped the Empire hunt down the Jedi Knights." Hmmm, sounds suspiciously like Anakin. Wait, isn't Anakin dead? Or wait....is he the big black robot dude? Wait, Obi-Wan said he wasn't, he said it was his old pupil. But his old pupil never had any motive, because we never saw him on screen. Huh. Anakin's probably Vader then.

Honestly, it's painfully obvious either way.  

Bingowings said:

MrInsaneA said:In my future edits, instead of the mechanical enhancements being accidental, they'll be intentional. He'll be a creepy alien warrior who makes constant "self-improvements" to his body, in an ongoing quest to become the ultimate warrior. 

And I've heard the "Call a prequel villain Darth Vader to confuse the audience" idea a thousand times, and it gets less appealing every time I hear it. I mean,  I get we don't want to spoil the 'Luke I am your father' reveal. But pasting Vader's name on Maul, or Dooku, or Griveous just diminishes the uniqueness of two characters. 

 

Isn't the self improvement angle canon for Grievous already?

As for the unique natures of Dooku and Grievous as villains, one is a old former Jedi in a cape with a red lightsaber and the other is a Jedi hunting cyborg.

They are Vader, they should have been Vader in the PT.

The only way to rescue anything out of them at all is to remove as much Vaderness as possible or to use what's there as cover for the important character reveal.

Making Dooku not a villain as such and making the General a cyborg Jedi killing machine that can be with ease be misremembered as the same guy in the mask and the black cape make a lot more sense to me than keeping them where they are.

Make them serve the story not water it down.

The problem with just leaving Anakin dead is that it's so obvious that he is Vader you might as well show him becoming Vader.

You need to plant obstacles in the audiences way so they are as surprised come ESB (when watched in chronological order) as they would be if they watched them in the order they were made.

Giving Obi-Wan a pupil prior to Anakin and giving the audience other Vader candidates are possible obstacles.

griveous cannon isnt well defined at all. he has 3 different origins or something. so who knows.

and there are much better ways to utilize griveous and dooku then making them trick vaders. making dooku a rogue jedi instead of a sith who has connections to sidious adds a whole new dimension to his character. im sure that simmilar changes can be done with maul/griveous. pasting vaders name on one of them is a waste. giving obi wan a pupil prior to anakin is a perfect solution but realistically could never happen in a fan edit. 

Bingowings said:

If Grievous was an intact flying ace who got more and more mechanically patched up after endless battles... you know for someone who had sixteen years to figure this sort of thing out Lucas really didn't think it through did he?

Maybe Grievous has a flying ace brother (Manfred to the General's Lothar) they could compete for victories, one in land battles and the other in space battles.

You could even call him Darth Vader to confuse the audience.

In my future edits, instead of the mechanical enhancements being accidental, they'll be intentional. He'll be a creepy alien warrior who makes constant "self-improvements" to his body, in an ongoing quest to become the ultimate warrior. 

And I've heard the "Call a prequel villain Darth Vader to confuse the audience" idea a thousand times, and it gets less appealing every time I hear it. I mean,  I get we don't want to spoil the 'Luke I am your father' reveal. But pasting Vader's name on Maul, or Dooku, or Griveous just diminishes the uniqueness of two characters. 

 

Mithrandir said:

The alliance should attack with everything they have at hand.

 

The un-chromed naboo fighters could really work; though I'd have a squadron and not just "subtle one or two". Endor space battle is closing the saga and nothing should be subtle on it.

I'm even for adding old Republic junk ships, like early star destroyers of AOTC with some customization (heavy customization I mean, tho Im just throwing the idea here), or the shuttle in which Quigon and ObiWan arrive at the very begginning of TPM.

Other idea I had was to replace the imperial shuttle that the rebels use to infiltrate on Endor by an old Republic/ early Empire ship; having in mind that everyone on the executor gets curious about the ship, and the "old code" they use... infact, it'd make Vader's move by letting it pass, more obvious (though don't know if that's good).

 

Greetings!

I've always been of the mindset that when Ady gets to the ROTJ space battle, he should just go bananas. Just all out crazy space combat. Using a bunch of old PT ships for the Rebellion is exactly what I'm hoping for.

Bingowings said:

Galactica (more so 'Ye Olde Colonial' version) was, like Star Wars, a space fantasy so in my view having robot pilots works because it makes visual sense.

It makes more Science Fiction sense to have a robot brain directly pilot the ship but Star Wars isn't Science Fiction, the dogfights in the PT should be more like WWI in the first half and start turning into WWII as the PT moves closer to the OT.

A robot or alien Red Baron would be a compelling addition to the prequel trilogy in my view.

Maybe......Griveous? Hurm HURM (that was my potentially impossible, but also very intriguing idea noise.)

Bingowings said:

It would be a nice touch to have a couple of beat up and highly customised Naboo Starfighters in the Endor battle as a form of visual bookending.

It would be interesting to see them with all that chrome polish removed and with Alliance livery flaking off them.

I never bought into that EU idea of the Rebels having advanced fighters of their own.

I prefer the idea of them having aging fighters which can keep up with and even overtake the advanced tech of the Empire by virtue of the dedicated engineers of the Alliance making do and mending.

 

Like the idea, except instead of Naboo fighters, maybe have some beat-up ARC-170s (The X-Wing thingies the Clones flew in ROTS) and V-Wings. 

timdiggerm said:

Anyone know which bits of music from the original trilogy weren't actually used in the final films? Here's what I can think of, though I don't know the track names:

• Binary Suns alternate
• Some Yoda training stuff
• Parts of the ESB duel
• The Luke's Lightsaber Construction scene (although obviously a lot of fan editors want to put this scene back in anyway)

 

Also, I'm correct in thinking that a lot of the stuff in the Forest Battle concert suite doesn't actually appear in the film, right?

I think you're right on all of those except the ESB duel. 

Bingowings said:

If you had pilots in those ships some of them could still be robots but a few ace pilots could be aliens or humans on the Confederate side.

I'd be comfortable with a mix of Alien-Piloted Craft and Droid Starfighters. 

Vladius said:

Changing R2's "laughing" to a whimper would go a long way.

And change the music so we don't get this "upbeat comical moment" feeling.

Bingowings said:

You might be able to pretend that but it's pretty obvious without reading any books or online material that they aren't intended to be piloted by droids.

They are droids.

At one point they were meant to be general fighter craft with robot pilots inside, then a designer (I'm not sure which one at the moment) came to the conclusion that the ship might as well be a droid itself.

They walk around, their heads bop up and down in response to stimulus and they 'talk' to each other.

The idea of droid starfighters only bothered me during that one shot in Episode III where all the droids are walking on the invisible hand, and they talk to each other and make these laughing sounds. Always thought that was very cartoonish and Un-Star Wars like.

Bingowings said:

How the minds of droids work is not fully explained in the films.

Obi-wan in the PT assumes they don't think and is and expresses relief that they don't (presumably fearing some Cylon style uprising).

In terms of writing, story and audience response the Artoo and Threepio are meant to be every inch real and worthy of our empathy as Han or Leia, only the majority of the humans and aliens in that universe see them as utility objects.

Artoo certain has character, demonstrates initiative, courage, empathy, fear, sadness, humour, surprise etc.

He may be mimicking those responses but the audience is clearly meant to buy into that behaviour.

So a memory wipe is the equivalent (in terms of audience response as defined by the OT) as death of personality or 'soul'.

It parallels the Vader persona overwriting the Anakin persona. 

It might be interest to create a pre-wipe persona for Threepio which is more like the droid's less fussy, less self centered identity which we see in unguarded moments.

Like his offering of his components to repair Artoo and his concern for the other heroes on Bespin before he gets shot (even though they do keep treating him like an annoying ring tone).

Ehhhhhh....this is a little bit to heavy for me. Honestly, C-3P0 really doesn't deserve that kind of attention. I love him, but this isn't a story about the tragic loss of a droid's soul.

Alexrd said:

timdiggerm said:

One of the failures of the PT is that Artoo & Threepio are not the main characters the way they are in the OT.

I don't see it as a failure. I don't think it would work the same way. They are telling a different story with the PT.

I agree. There is waaaayyy to much going on for these two to have, or even deserve the spotlight.

ImperialFighter said:

adywan, I also meant to ask about this shot from the 'chasm' duel scene too -  Is it possible to add a momentary effect of 'fabric burning' and brief hint of 'smoking cauterization' to Luke's sleeve/severed wrist here, somewhat like was seen on your ANH:R 'arm'?...

 

Wow. What happened to the core? Never noticed that before.

Does anybody know of footage from other films that would work as establishing shots for INSIDE the Jedi Temple? I want the look of a monastery with a twist. Spiritual and beautiful. I however, don' know where to look for such footage. 

ben_danger said:

my only gripe is that the companions have identical names and backstorys BUT i digress. there seem to be a few people claiming to have THE soundtrack, which seems dubious as your links refer me to music i havn't heard yet. also on mine some of the tracks are actually a bunch of seperate tracks clumped together. the thing is massive.

how good is that main theme? frickin awesome.

Only MMO I will or will ever play. 

Sepharih said:

YES!!!!  I knew TOR would have some awesome stuff.  I'm going to crack open that soundtrack and do some rough cuts of the battle of geonosis, that and see if I can find a good theme for Dooku!

If you wanna good theme for Dooku, try Xizor's theme from Shadows of the Empire. Fits him perfectly. 

timdiggerm said:

Alexrd said:

In my opinion, the aliens are what helps me to believe in the huge scope of the galaxy in Star Wars. It's one of the things I like in the PT over the OT. We see in the cantina (and later in Jabba's Palace) that there are many other species on this universe, and I find it very strange (from a narrative POV) that only humans formed the Rebel forces. Specially when the aliens are the ones being reprimanded. In RotJ we see a new species on the Alliance (Mon Calamari), but it's still lacking.

This is why I'm all in favor of more prunefaces in ROTJ. Also the alien pilots.

ROTJ definitely needs more aliens in the Alliance. Not just Mon Calamari and Sullustans, but maybe Wookies etc.

ben_danger said:

i've sort of made a bastardised SWTOR soundtrack for personal listening, and some of it is quite good!

it is actually quite a nifty resource as far as it comprises of bastardised parts of existing music, all played in a consistent manner, so a fan-editor can essentially start using certain themes from the OT, that would sound just a tad different to avoid any direct connection.

It's really fantastic. You get hints of all the classic OT themes, while still having something unique. I love it. As if SWTOR didn't have ENOUGH things to make me love it.