Just the wound you say? The whole part IMO. Just look how he "falls" to floor... oh wait, he doesn't, he intentionally bends down...
Burdokva said:
Mithrandir said:
Besides, I wouldn't underestimate the market, surely they'll find someway to solve this "piracy" problem and keep making money.
[...]
Don't know, perhaps I'm giving my point from a very parcialized place, our market is not as extense as yours; bands here rarely have "merchandising". What's more, it's common between musicians to measure their success by "being" (appearing in) a sticker, a t-shirt; a student bag, etc, but while they're in the underground time of their careers, no one pays for copyright, or commercial name rights, and at some point, they're ok with that if it leads them to a path of success and an increase in public recognition. Not that here people are not jealous at all of their own production, but it seems to be that they're less than in other lands.
I highly doubt the first part of your statement. I don't know where you live, but I know the problems of a small market, because I live in a small country.
When I say market, I mean market-economy, aka capistalism.
I live in Argentina, by the way, which has a rather small market too.
I explained myself a little more above, hope you read it, since I kinda like this discussion; I'm trying to make a point, intellectual-property-problem isn't an issue of which I have a closed opinion. I often think about it, though never take a defined position. That's why I said, Liam's words were interesting.
I'm not defending robbery, I'm just saying that in this side of the world, and strangely for a personality like Liam Gallagher (whose oftenly superb-egocentric declarations led me to think he was gonna say something different) too, the line which determines what's yours, what's mine, and what's ours is not as well defined as it is for the "first world" societies.
Robbing is bad; in all its ways. However some social structures and mechanisms of production encover robbery in a way; and we just accept it.
TheBoost said:
Mithrandir said:
One of the most interesting things I've read about piracy and copyright was strangely in the words of Liam Gallagher:
“I hate all these big, silly rock stars who moan – at least they’re fuckin’ downloading your music, you cunt, and paying attention, know what I mean? You should fuckin’ appreciate that – what are you moaning about? You’ve got fuckin’ five big houses, so shut up,”
"Interesting." Yeah, that's one word for it.
At what point does someone not deserve to get compensated for their labor? What's the exact dollar ammount where it's now 'enough' and it's ok to steal from them?
Is it the same for civil engineers or financial planners as it is for musicians?
If I develope a cure for a disease and people steal if from me, should I just be happy people are enjoying my cure?
Well, that's where the social idiosincrasy starts to play. For instance, here we've got one the highest rates in universitary population in the whole american continent (don't know what the rates of Cuba are), and College happens to be public here (in case you want good education, if you want just a degree, you can go to private universities). By public, it means, you don't pay, although it doesn't mean "free", for it is sustained by the State, and utterly, the civil society's taxes. So most of professionals here have it clear that, in some way, their achievements are product of the collective effort of a society who payed their studies. This, for some people, is indeed a "moral debt"; and even if we all have some point of individuality, and ambition, no one lives and progresses completely on their own. At least, this is how I see somethings in this part of my life...
Besides, I wouldn't underestimate the market, surely they'll find someway to solve this "piracy" problem and keep making money.
And regarding what's been said above about professional middle-class musicians; I think that the worst thing you can do to those people is, instead of downloading their music, not recognizing who the author is (don't know, by changing the name, or confusing their voices with other musicians). If that people upload their music to Internet perhaps they're looking for people who pays attention to them, and maybe they could have fame first on youtube or some site, and then reach to sign a contract. Honestly I don't think there are plenty of middle class musicians whose files are there being pirated, Cinema industry is even wealthier than musical, and it took me a good time to find a site where I could watch some USSR movies. Don't know, perhaps I'm giving my point from a very parcialized place, our market is not as extense as yours; bands here rarely have "merchandising". What's more, it's common between musicians to measure their success by "being" (appearing in) a sticker, a t-shirt; a student bag, etc, but while they're in the underground time of their careers, no one pays for copyright, or commercial name rights, and at some point, they're ok with that if it leads them to a path of success and an increase in public recognition. Not that here people are not jealous at all of their own production, but it seems to be that they're less than in other lands.
One of the most interesting things I've read about piracy and copyright was strangely in the words of Liam Gallagher:
“I hate all these big, silly rock stars who moan – at least they’re fuckin’ downloading your music, you cunt, and paying attention, know what I mean? You should fuckin’ appreciate that – what are you moaning about? You’ve got fuckin’ five big houses, so shut up,”
Most of people here in Argentina take it that way, infact.
sidious is a bad guy, yet he's intelligent. I don't see him giving the order of "kill the jedi" if he knows that they won't get killed by a couple of droids. He could order so to Vader... but to the Viceroy and his stupid droids? I think he would ask him to get'em out of the way, or "try to kill em" or "try to keep them quiet"... then the viceroy would try to kill them, so it makes him look even more like a badass
I don't know Bingo if radical is the right word to say what AOTC needs. I'd rather say "deep" changes, not only in the plot, but in some messages the movie is sending to us.
First of all it needs, like most of the prequels, some visual catch up with the OT (Bob Garcia's giving an excellent example of how to make it with his EPIII edit).
Secondly, plot-dialogue editing.
And mainly, AOTC gives us the fans a subtle yet ironical way to tweak what Lucas proposes with this movie, (on your face, George (?)).
I've been thinking on it for a while, and arrived to the conclussion that, as it is now, the saga is expressing that the fall of the Jedi, and the utter fall of the Republic is a consequence of Anakin getting involved with Padme (that stupid shit of forbidden love, and stuff); breaking the rules of the Jedi order. This is more a stupid set up, how could ever in a "matinée-souled" saga be love a problem? his falling in love just that!. Some writers of EU got it the other way and expressed the tragedy of Vader (and with his tragedy, the galaxy's) was more as a consequence of the Jedi Order misfunction, pressuring Anakin to a point wich exploded. This could be, of course, the other side of the coin. Love's not the problem, but those who pretend to repel it. And what's curious is that what defines if the movie is balancing to one perspective or to the other is the grade of conscience Anakin has about:
What's going on in general in the Republic context
The Jedi's double standards. (what you Bingo, brillantly pointed out)
So, if it's to make this little tough deep change in the movie, well, you could tell the "we're not allowed to love, but we are encouraged to support compassion" scene, is pure gold, isn't it?
I think that even it's full of weak elements, dull, and sometimes it reaches to be predictable, AOTC will perdure in the history of the saga like the "thriller one" because of some subplot it has in it. So if I were to make a fanedit, I'd rather try to exploit that overall feeling the movie has (of course, with the main aim of making something good out of it, not leaving the crap it is) than to change it into something more "star warsy".
Perhaps it would be better to make the change of amours explicit:
http://img138.imageshack.us/i/stormis1.jpg/
http://img708.imageshack.us/i/stormis2.jpg/ (If somehow you could replace the bridge with something more imperial-like and put Vader and the Emperor/Tarkin inside the circled area; I think it could work).
I'm for mixing ships of different eras throughout the saga. It's like a continuity of technology that makes it all more believable, no one just throws his old car just because he's got a new one. That's why I love your mock up, Bingo. I suggested putting EPIII star destroyers in ANH (the ones that patrol over Tatooine, the ones the Falcon elude when they set off), since Tatooine is in the outer rim and the Empire just wouldn't send their best stuff (the rebellion isn't serious till the destruction of the DS, they're just a "hope"); and even putting Republican and Separatist cruisers in ROTJ final battle, for the Alliance would use every ship (even old republican cruisers, used junk) they have at hand for their ultimate battle, they'd throw stones to the Empire if they could!... wait, I think the ewoks did already did it.
But with the suits, it's different, we see no mixing between EPII and EPIII, so don't know if it would work. It's rather stupid by Lucas to show only white armours and not the rest of the Army of the Republic suits, that based on what's been shown in Clone Wars, is almost the same than the Empire suits (officers, guards, etc)...
Really, the more I read about what's been done in the Prequel's edits, particularly Bob Garcia's, the ideas suggested (and most of them feasible even if they imply heavy edit and FX work) in Prequels Radical Redux ideas thread, and the more I see what Adywan does in ESB:R, the more I regret what Lucas has done with (what could have been... sorry: should have been) the climatic, final, ultimate episode of the saga...
I'm glad to see that, even if not the majority of the "conservative" wing of this community, there's a lot of people (with whom I agree) that have no trouble in admiting that the "untouchable jewells" of the saga are ANH and ESB. I mean even if chronologically there's an OT, there's a tangible difference between EP IV-V and EP VI; and hope that eventually some editor will come and give a little more dignity to the end of the saga. PT can be dense, cheesy, but it's not the climax; personally I don't set the bar as high as I do with ROTJ.
Watching Bob's vid, I insist, one of the most obvious differences between CT and ST is the opacity of their suits .If there was something doable to this it could work even better, though I don’t know if it would be really a good idea to mix clonetroopers and stormtroopers in the same scene. I think it would rather be more symbolic, to show them “receiving” their new amours. It comes to my mind the “clone reveal” scene in Kamino, when you see all those suited troopers walking and taking their helmets from an assembly line.
Perhaps with some heavy AE work (changing the background for one more Imperial-like, even one that look on board of a SD), plus tweaking the helmets to make it look like OT stormtroopers you could get it to work like the ultimate “this is the Galactic Empire” scene.
I remember that Bob said that his end for ROTDS will be a lot different from the original release, so I don’t know if this suggestion could fit in his plan for the edit; though I’m sure he’ll make it better than the theatrical version, for in ROTS the visual moment that indicates the transtition from Republic to Empire is that the SD goes from red to gray (rather flat stuff for such a “hinge” in the saga). What’s more, SDs in the rest of the saga (even in AOTC, Republic Era) have always been gray, and the only episode that feels out of place in that sense, is ROTS.
Well bingo, I always found it weird that Palpatine knows the names of his commanders, or that he calls Cody in particular... but "Commander(s), the time has come...wipe them out" would fit that moment of the Emperor's character.
Yeap, great point Bingo
Bob have you considered adding the deleted scene of Yoda, ObiWan and Mace talking about arresting Palpatine before Grievous death instead of the one the film finally included?(it requires heavy edit of cheese, btw) I think it would add some nice touch to show that there's this "high command" of Jedi who are planning something, then cut to something else, then back the Council reunion where they don't say a thing aboute their plan, so that there's actually some "plot" to overthrow Palpatine right after Grievous death.
And about what I mentioned before about "Are you threating me?" line, what if you reduced the dialog drastically... Mace and the gang come to the office.
"In the name of the galactic...you are under arrest" (or they could even say nothing at all! and just ignite their sabres)
Palpatine, looking outside in his chair: "muahahaha (creepy laughter from ROTJ)... It's treason... then" (he stands up, and lights go off as you planned and the fight starts)
bobgarcia74 said:
Ok, second take on the escape pod room. Took away the red and went with a color changed version of the original room. Like the one Angel posted a few posts above.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXWALOoKcVU
The section with Obi and Anakin killing the droids in between is not done yet, color or audio wise, and I flipped around GG's lines just for fun.
Excellent, IMO, it's far better than the first you posted. Well, wow... ROTDS it's getting more interesting all the time!
PS: Bob how you doing with the Mace/Palps confrontation? cuz I've seen several edits and videos of that scene (from different editors) and the "Are you threating me master Jedi" doesn't work fine except in the original. It feels too abrupt, or fast, or whatever...
Drop a mock up of Geonosis following Angel's line...
http://img543.imageshack.us/f/clonetrooperpilot1.jpg/
I tried (with a zero rate of success) to make the pilot's suit and helmet look PVC-shiny just as stormtroopers in the OT (IMO PT troopers look fake in part because they're dull). What I achieved, if noticeable, made it look even less realistic...
I think that apart from some parts that really need colour correction, the main issue with PT is saturation, and not colour balance.
The Anakin in the speeder background look really like taken from the clone wars animated series
haraldo23 said:
bobgarcia74 said:
Very small clip here, mostly looking for feedback.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSQdVkJz3J8
Thanks to Angel for the concept first and foremost.
The masking done so far is very bad. Added some smoke to help cover it up. That will be perfected later.
This is a further attempt to help GG come along more as a Darker bad guy thru his surroundings. Dark and gloomy over bright and Neon.
Any ideas are welcome.
Dude, I gotta be honest, I really can't remember how it looked originally.
Is it OK to ask for a side by side comparison picture/video? That would really help noticing the difference.
http://img593.imageshack.us/i/ajhs.jpg/
http://img217.imageshack.us/i/aioushd.jpg/
Well, it's quite nice Bob, it strongly reminds to the ANH pod chamber. Perhaps Angel's new matte could have more piping to make it even more similar; but as it is now, it's already an amazing improvement.
Regarding my suggestion of having Anakin going to Padme's after founding out about the chancellor, well, I've been watching some of your vids in youtube, particularly "opera scene take 7" (excellent, it work perfectly) and I think that you're getting to the point of really making the transition smooth as it should be. Anakin (who's the protagonist and the character people should feel empathy with, will feel dissapointed with the Jedi and generate that confusing atmosphere in which a bad guy like Palpatine would take control of the Republic). Those scenes (The Opera- Palpatine's revelation - Anakin in Padme's home - Windu and the Council planning to overthrow Palpatine), in any order you put them, are the main tandem in order to make the film believable, you've already fixed the Opera, wich was the weakest of all, thumbs up for you!
However the order of scenes could work best if it was an alternating story of what the Jedi are doing with Palps point of view... something kinda...
Opera
Yoda on Kasshyk, Obi to Utapau Council scene
Ani's farewell to Obi
Windu and the council SECRET scene (so as to make us think the Jedi are up to something)
Palpatine's reveal-
Anakin at Padme's-
Anakins turn.
Edit:
PS: Sorry Angel, once more, my english betrayed me and misunderstood
Well, I see you have a global perspective of the PT as a whole, so regarding radical editing, there could be some mix of things between episodes. I think that putting "the siege of Alderaan" in Episode II could be a good call. Watching the saga as a whole, having the "battle space-destroy the ship" plot in Episode I sets that kind of action quite far from the OT and especially ANH. Even if it would require to edit heavily on cutting Anakid out of the scene, you'd get the clone stuff in EPI, somehow explain (the scrawl perhaps?) that the Army of the Republic can't get to Alderaan. Then have Anakin (EPII) be sent along with padme to Alderaan, and have them split up (Padme never follows Anakin to Tattoine)
Well, you could extract Anakin from TPM, and then change the crawl of AOTC so as to state that "Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi has taken a new apprentice". Or play with the parts somehow to get something different out of the edit
Well even if I can't say it without any doubt, I think that if you keep all the AE files then you can change the source files freely and you won't have to do everything again...
Bingowings said:
Taking a few of the furry chaps from ROTS or filming a good pair of fan costumes and adding them into the Endor battle should be possible.
ROTS scoutroopers look almost the same than ROTJ isn't it? (apart that ROTS troopers are camouflaged...
And 'bout setting the action in Coruscant, or anywhere, is THAT impossible? I mean, for a single editor, well, it could be. But what if somehow a team is formed with the common goal of rotoscoping the necessary scenes, dividing the tasks? Once the work is finished they freely share the After Effects files between them and everyone does with those file whatever they want. I'm useless with After Efects, though it would be nice the idea of having a common source of resources just like LFL is doing with the soundboards (besides the movies, wich are utterly the common source).
Where are you Bob? Throw us something! :)
Well, that would indeed be awesome Bingo! There's a big question regarding is it feasible or not; well, I certainly think it wouldn't be in a PT fancy way, but considering the spirit of this edit which is to lead ROTS to a good story and OT like, well, it could be done with a lot of effort in it; I mean, just a matte and the ship fliying towards it. However I still think that the asteroid field scene could be used to show a picture of a clandestine bunch of ships, but who says that "reunion" couldn't take place in Dagobah??
