Mithrandir

TV's Frink said:

But...that got me thinking of another approach:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WoHthkFtgo

The issue here is that Ric shouldn't be laughing - he's a Naboo too.  I thought of having Obi laugh instead (that's whose laugh it actually is), but I wanted to get a little of the Panaka/Ric rivalry in-joke into the edit at least a little.

Thoughts?

Panaka: The Hutts are gangsters.
Qui Gonn: "AND the naboo are cowards"
Ric: You catch on pretty quick

Cheers

WhatsMyName said:

That's a lot of stuff. i don't know about changing Organa to Antilles just because he plays no real part in the Senate and he isn't as close to the Jedi as Antilles would be.

Btw, this is Wedge's father. in the OT Wedge was only a few years older then Luke.

I like the idea of Obi-Wan being a more mysterious character and i would like anything added to tie more of the OT with the PT since in a lot of ways, they seem like there own set of films.

I want more Qui-Gon!!!

 Actually, it isn't a lot of stuff but three or four rather small changes, which bring a "radically changed" feeling to the movie.

The post happens to be so long since I try to be very specifical about what it'd take to do it, and want to be clear about the idea; plus, I started to include the concrete changes/edits/tweaks it'd need.

I encourage you to read it and tell what you think of that "way" to drive the movies ;)

Don't know if this is against the forum rules. But considering I'm trying to develop an idea by parts (not that everything came to my mind in the same moment); with every improvement or new idea I have that's related to previous ones, I'm gonna post the whole chain of them, just to let anyone who steps in the thread get the idea and not to make him/her go backwards to look for the previous-chained idea.

General Idea: GOING TO A MORE OTISH PLOT in ROTS. (Character centred). I assume that one of the main differences between PT and OT is how cosmopolitan feels the new trilogy when opposed to the OT. So even if some character and situations are necessary, my goal here is to find a way to make the story of ROTS be driven by the main characters. So as far as in the OT we had this "trilogy" or characters Luke-Han-Leia, I think that the most close we have to that in the PT is Anakin-ObiWan-Padmé.

I had this idea in mind, which I think that could tie a little bit some things. Of course, it wouldn't preserve the WTF moment of ESB. But still, I find it (and hope you too) very interesting. Of corse I don't pretend that just by putting in excercise this only idea all the problems of the PT would be solved, but let's see.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"He was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil" - "Annie was a good friend"

Well, immaginin' an all-PT-episodes fanedit saga, make it as if Obi Wan was not that impollute Jedi we see in the theatrical release, but someone more in line with the great guy, but yet tricky person we see in the OT, ala Qui Gonn. Someone who we know has great intentions however's a little rogue; a Master who could tolerate Anakin being married. Infact sharing the secret is an implicit way of showing how bonded they are as best friends. This is a process of "Han-izing" ObiWan a little, which I don't have any idea about how could it be pulled out.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anakin and his wife:

As I said many times before, making Anakin go right to Padmé's after Palpatine confessing he's the Sith Lord would be a hon-ron. By this, you add depth to the marriage relationship, and uncertainty, and perhaps even manipulative intelligence to Anakin's character.

To do this and yet not affect the development of the plot, we've to state how would the Jedi realize about Palpatine's identity. I've suggested that as "the dark side clouds everything" it could even be clouding the Jedi's minds so that they don't act specifically as they should. They'd rather be a little jerks here and convey in a council season (the one that there's Windu and almost the rest are holograms, which is not at the council chamber) that the Chancellor will be removed when Grievous is dead. This scene may need a little edition/tweakering to get moving though I suppose it's not a big deal.

POSSIBLE EXPANSION OF THE IDEA:

Once more, the dark side clouds everything, so considering there's a deleted scene that shows almost the same content that "the hologram council scene"; that deleted scene could make it to an edit since it shows only ObiWan, Yoda and Windu, and it'd lead us to think "hey, these are three Jedi that are making decissions as if they were even upper than the council". (This would make some of Anakins suspicions and angers be reasonable, after all he's not that wrong about the Jedi being a little jerks).

PRO:

Showing this "high command" of the Jedi order, even above the rest of the council
Giving more reasons to Anakin (and through him, till this point of the movie, to the spectator) to be unsure about the Jedi.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

So ObiWan's sent to Utapau Fights grievous, and in the meanwhile Anakin turns.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Obi Wan's scape and afterwards.

The way I've immagined this, the message that Kenobi gets from bail's ship should be replaced. SINCE HE AND ANAKIN ARE VERY CLOSE TO EACH OTHER the dialogue could be something like this.

Captain:"Captain Antilles here (fan service xd). This is Senator Organa's ship"
ObiWan: "Captain my clonetrooper fired at me...."
Captain:"...it seems that there's been a Jedi rebellion sir. The jedi are being hunted. We'll send you our cordenades"

(Comunication off)

OBI WAN (face gesture of "dammit"):  ANAKIN!! (worried about him being murdered as the rest of the Jedi). (THIS IS THE TRICKY PART)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cut to ANYWHERE

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ObiWan reaches the Tantive

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cut to Anywhere again

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tantive's Cockpit:
The message again should be replaced by something like:

"His majesty (HERE is when you insert a quick shot of Obi and Yoda putting their best oh-shit faces) has requested you for a special season of the senate. We'll open the perimeter for you".

(The WTF faces ar mainly due to "his majesty"... Palpatine hasn't even declared the Empire yet. This is just a way to "inform" Yoda and ObiWan what's really happening, without giving it in the mouth, so once again, you make the characters more clever.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HERE YOU CHOP OFF THE SCENE OF YODA AND OBIWAN COMING BACK TO ESTABLISH AN EMERGENCY CODE

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Padme's home:

The way I have this scene in my mind, I must say is very very cutted, reduced to a few lines. However I immagined it with lines that already are in ROTS, so depending on the editor's skill to include extra-movie dialogue, its lenght could be different.

ObiWan:"it appears that the chancellor's behing everything, including the war. Palpatine's the Sith lord we've been looking for. Padme, I need your help, he's in grat danger"
Padme:"from the sith??"
ObiWan: (Silence).
Padme: Not Anakin (tense silence)
ObiWan: Padme, I must find him.

Perhaps increase the lenght by adding establishing shots of Padme's building.

 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Straight to Mustafar.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EXPANSION/VARIATION II TO THE IDEA.

Even if the "best friends" plot line is a radical change, it came to my mind the idea of another possibility that could enhance or replace what I formerly suggested. Well besides being worried for his best friend... perhaps ObiWan thinks that Anakin's time has come...

I mean, APART from the friendship preocupation, ObiWan wants to find Anakin because he is considered "the chosen one", "the only one who could destroy the sith".... so they need to find him the same way you need to find a baseball bat when someone's punching you (bad methaphore). They need him as a weapon. And when ObiWan goes to mustafar and sees what happen... well, everything crumbles down.

How to do this??

Right after the Tantive's cockpit scene, cut to the Tantive's corridor scene, and alter the dialogue till it looks like this (once again with dialogue from the original footage)

ObiWan: Have we received any message from the "temple" (here change "temple" and put ANAKIN)? There's too much at stake master. He must know.
Yoda: (Silence)
ObiWan: With all of your respect master, isn't he the chosen one? We need him
Y: a prophecy that coulda been misunderstood
O: He is my best friend, I know he won't fail me (or something)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pretty radical ideas though most of the footage to do it is already out there. I'm looking to feedback to polish this up even more, so I'd be glad if you comment on this.

Don't know if this is against the forum rules. But considering I'm trying to develop an idea by parts (not that everything came to my mind in the same

moment); with every improvement or new idea I have that's related to previous ones, I'm gonna post the whole chain of them, just to let anyone who steps in

the thread get the idea and not to make him/her go backwards to look for the previous-chained idea.

General Idea: GOING TO A MORE OTISH PLOT in ROTS. (Character centred). I assume that one of the main differences between PT and OT is how cosmopolitan feels

the new trilogy when opposed to the OT. So even if some character and situations are necessary, my goal here is to find a way to make the story of ROTS be driven by the main characters. So as far as in the OT we had this "trilogy" or characters Luke-Han-Leia, I think that the most close we have to that in the PT is Anakin-ObiWan-Padmé.

I had this idea in mind, which I think that could tie a little bit some things. Of course, it wouldn't preserve the WTF moment of ESB. But still, I find it (and hope you too) very interesting. Of corse I don't pretend that just by putting in excercise this only idea all the problems of the PT would be solved, but let's see.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"He was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil" - "Annie was a good friend"

Well, immaginin' an all-PT-episodes fanedit saga, make it as if Obi Wan was not that impollute Jedi we see in the theatrical release, but someone more in line with the great guy, but yet tricky person we see in the OT, ala Qui Gonn. Someone who we know has great intentions however's a little rogue; a Master who could tolerate Anakin being married. Infact sharing the secret is an implicit way of showing how bonded they are as best friends. This is a process of "Han-izing" ObiWan a little, which I don't have any idea about how could it be pulled out.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anakin and his wife:

As I said many times before, making Anakin go right to Padmé's after Palpatine confessing he's the Sith Lord would be a hon-ron. By this, you add depth to the marriage relationship, and uncertainty, and perhaps even manipulative intelligence to Anakin's character.

To do this and yet not affect the development of the plot, we've to state how would the Jedi realize about Palpatine's identity. I've suggested that as "the dark side clouds everything" it could even be clouding the Jedi's minds so that they don't act specifically as they should. They'd rather be a little jerks here and convey in a council season (the one that there's Windu and almost the rest are holograms, which is not at the council chamber) that the Chancellor will be removed when Grievous is dead. This scene may need a little edition/tweakering to get moving though I suppose it's not a big deal.

POSSIBLE EXPANSION OF THE IDEA:

Once more, the dark side clouds everything, so considering there's a deleted scene that shows almost the same content that "the hologram council scene"; that deleted scene could make it to an edit since it shows only ObiWan, Yoda and Windu, and it'd lead us to think "hey, these are three Jedi that are making decissions as if they were even upper than the council". (This would make some of Anakins suspicions and angers be reasonable, after all he's not that wrong about the Jedi being a little jerks).

PRO:

Showing this "high command" of the Jedi order, even above the rest of the council
Giving more reasons to Anakin (and through him, till this point of the movie, to the spectator) to be unsure about the Jedi.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

So ObiWan's sent to Utapau Fights grievous, and in the meanwhile Anakin turns.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Obi Wan's scape and afterwards.

The way I've immagined this, the message that Kenobi gets from bail's ship should be replaced. SINCE HE AND ANAKIN ARE VERY CLOSE TO EACH OTHER the dialogue could be something like this.

Captain:"Captain Antilles here (fan service xd). This is Senator Organa's ship"
ObiWan: "Captain my clonetrooper fired at me...."
Captain:"...it seems that there's been a Jedi rebellion sir. The jedi are being hunted. We'll send you our cordenades"

(Comunication off)

OBI WAN (face gesture of "dammit"):  ANAKIN!! (worried about him being murdered as the rest of the Jedi). (THIS IS THE TRICKY PART)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cut to ANYWHERE

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ObiWan reaches the Tantive

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cut to Anywhere again

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tantive's Cockpit:
The message again should be replaced by something like:

"His majesty (HERE is when you insert a quick shot of Obi and Yoda putting their best oh-shit faces) has requested you for a special season of the senate. We'll open the perimeter for you".

(The WTF faces ar mainly due to "his majesty"... Palpatine hasn't even declared the Empire yet. This is just a way to "inform" Yoda and ObiWan what's really happening, without giving it in the mouth, so once again, you make the characters more clever.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HERE YOU CHOP OFF THE SCENE OF YODA AND OBIWAN COMING BACK TO ESTABLISH AN EMERGENCY CODE

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Padme's home:

The way I have this scene in my mind, I must say is very very cutted, reduced to a few lines. However I immagined it with lines that already are in ROTS, so depending on the editor's skill to include extra-movie dialogue, its lenght could be different.

ObiWan:"it appears that the chancellor's behing everything, including the war. Palpatine's the Sith lord we've been looking for. Padme, I need your help, he's in grat danger"
Padme:"from the sith??"
ObiWan: (Silence).
Padme: Not Anakin (tense silence)
ObiWan: Padme, I must find him.

Perhaps increase the lenght by adding establishing shots of Padme's building.

 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Straight to Mustafar.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EXPANSION/VARIATION II TO THE IDEA.

Even if the "best friends" plot line is a radical change, it came to my mind the idea of another possibility that could enhance or replace what I formerly suggested. Well besides being worried for his best friend... perhaps ObiWan thinks that Anakin's time has come...

I mean, APART from the friendship preocupation, ObiWan wants to find Anakin because he is considered "the chosen one", "the only one who could destroy the sith".... so they need to find him the same way you need to find a baseball bat when someone's punching you (bad methaphore). They need him as a weapon. And when ObiWan goes to mustafar and sees what happen... well, everything crumbles down.

How to do this??

Right after the Tantive's cockpit scene, cut to the Tantive's corridor scene, and alter the dialogue till it looks like this (once again with dialogue from the original footage)

ObiWan: Have we received any message from the "temple" (here change "temple" and put ANAKIN)? There's too much at stake master. He must know.
Yoda: (Silence)
ObiWan: With all of your respect master, isn't he the chosen one? We need him
Y: a prophecy that coulda been misunderstood
O: He is my best friend, I know he won't fail me (or something)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pretty radical ideas though most of the footage to do it is already out there. I'm looking to feedback to polish this up even more, so I'd be glad if you comment on this.

Flashbacks are there (if I didn't misunderstand) since it's an all-in version of the saga. I'd rather go with just the "your momma" part.

Couple of mockups I did, BTW

1) More neutral colours plus... Sith cloakes aren't supposed to be dark??

2) Retroing some displays with Angel's classical recipe. ANY colour makes a better display than yellow doncha think?

3) Welcome to the Jedi military section. Greyish, ala Xmen mansion.

4) However, more than grey sets, grey ships sell that OT feeling for me. And why did Coruscant's sky have to be not-blue(ish)?

The carpet is a decission I made to give the picture a little more balance and not to leave it so monochromatic.

vaderios said:

bobgarcia74 said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-qGBN7dFvo

Very funny ;)

You might want to post it there so Tv's can take ideas ;)

 

-Angel

Actually for that scene I remember there was a suggestion about making Vader say "your mother once thought the same way you do" instead of "Obi Wan once thought"... that'be an excellent compliment to what you've got achieved in that video Bob. ;)

Well, attacking your pregnant wife, almost killing her, and getting severed by your best friend, plus being under constant pressure makes a point of no return. More personal and character-centered (Obi, Padme and Anakin).

Most of us state here that prequels suck specially because of the treatment some parts of the plot have received. If you wanna change it at some point (to make it better, of course), you'd still have to change a lot of things in the movie.

I don't think Bob's going to have a suited Vader do the slaughter, so you can sleep quiet, though it isn't a bad idea at all.

The way it is, it's Anakin's point of no return.

The way it'd be after that change, it's Vader's furthest point in bitchiness, and his "great" entrance to the saga as the new ultimate vilain.

ben_danger said:

hmmm, if only there were an obsessive collective of people who spend their spare time correcting these problemos....

there is a stack of potential issues, but as i said its just an idea. i just like the idea that obiwan goes out with the best of intentions to save anakin, but ends up practically killing him enstead.

 I thought the idea of having them arrange the twins-thing before the duel too, though the clothes are a problem. Anyway, it still makes sense, since if you put it the way we're suggesting, Anakin's "death" (in case you try to keep Vader's identity unknown) would be something that wasn't foreseen, so they'd have to decide everything quickly, which is actually the way it seems to be in the movie.  Still, You could have ObiWan go to "rescue" Anakin from the order 66 as a whole separated thing of "keeping Yoda's destiny" a secret...you wouldn't loose Qui Gonn's scene.

Obi runs from Utapau. Message from the Tantive. Gets to the ship. They arrive to Coruscant. Obi goes to Padme's. Padme goes to Mustafar. Duel. Birth scene. Twin arrangement.

That way you'd make Anakin and ObiWan more worried about each other, and you don't loose Yoda's micro-storyline. The only scene that should be gone is that of ObiWan and Yoda in Coruscant sending the emergency code(that way you're giving the history a soft twist). And if you want to make it even deeper, as I said, make it seem as Anakin and Padme had told ObiWan about them being a couple. So Kenobi is this friend that could be silent and support his best friend against the Jedi's rules. Making one best friend keep the other's secret would help you a lot (really, a lot) in order to make the story fit Obiwan's lines in ANH.

Besides, if you try this,  plus the other stuff of having Anakin go straight to Padme's right after Palps reveal, it'd be just excelent how Padme's character would grow even reaching the level of importance of Leia in ESB (more or less) and not leaving her be just some stand-aside, plain character in the movie.

---------------------------

The main challenge to make it all work would be to insert at some point of the sequence, some dialogue that proves ObiWan's preoccupation about Anakin. Considering Bob's abbilities in editing, I don't think that'd be a major challenge.

---------------------------

On another aspect, don't know what you plan to do on Padme's death Bob, but it might be better if the only one who suspects that "there's still good" in Vader was Luke. Padme's hard broken and dissapointed.

I try to keep making some plot-suggestions, though at times I feel too invasive with my comments, it's just that I have so much confidence in this edit as the ultimate ROTS fan edit. BTW, long time no see the visuals guy, Vaderios where're you?

The yoda stuff was more a compensation I had in mind for spoiling the great ESB reveal. I already enjoy the saga as it is now, don't mind the surprise being lost, I find it more a deep saga now; however since some people don't think the same there was this well, you know who Vader is, but here we invent another hole in the saga kinda to replace the old one.

Considering we're speaking hipothetically, Bail could rather be a stand-alone character; actually having Bail return to Coruscant could work only as a way to show the tantive (I'm saying, why would you have him leave and then come back, just make it appear arriving, he's never left since this is the first time he arrives).

 Even if you want to keep showing the history of Yoda, you could keep the Tantive's cockpit scenes and in any way, still you could make room for the idea of Obi Wan going to Mustafar because he's worried about Anakin... the only thing you'd loose would be Yoda and Obi going back to the Jedi place, and watching Anakin's massacre, makin Obi wan go straight to Padme's and erasing some references to the "secret to obi" relationship between them throughout the movie.

Infact I had the idea of havin a suited Vader do the slaughter, that's why getting rid of the scene of Yoda and Obi finding out it has been Anakin who killed the younglingst wasn't a problem in my mind and I didn't even consider it since for me it had to be cut, though I see now you're not aiming at that goal (havin the actual Darth Vader go kill the Jedi near the end of the movie). There's a guy who made a great mock up, I think that if you want to, you could polish it with a better roto and make it work, though considering I don't master AE, perhaps I'm not being grounded about the amount of work rotoscoping means; In that case, I offer you an apology.

 Anyway bob, you've got my full support with this edit, I know you're doing great things there and I fully respect your calls since you're making your best to get a better movie out of ROTS

I had this idea in mind, which I think that could tie a little bit some things. Of course, it wouldn't preserve the WTF moment of ESB. But still, I find it (and hope you too) very interesting. Of corse I don't pretend that just by putting in excercise this only idea all the problems of the PT would be solved, but let's see.

"He was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil" - "Annie was a good friend"

Well, immaginin' an all-PT-episodes fanedit saga, make it as if Obi Wan was not that impollute Jedi we see in the theatrical release, but someone more in line with the great guy, but yet tricky person we see in the OT. Something ala Qui Gonn. Someone who we know has great intentions however's a little rogue; a Master who could tolerate Anakin being married. Till here's the general EPI-EPII editing.
Let's sink into ROTS. By this point ObiWan should know about Anakin and Padme, so sharing the secret is an implicit way of showing how bonded they are as best friends. On the other hand they are like the best generals from the Order, perhaps except Yoda. So Skywalker-Kenobi are kinda the star boys who have a very particular pov of the Jedi rules.
By the time we reach order sixty six,we just get rid of Yoda, I mean, we see he chop's the clone commander head's off and that's it (so that we make room for this brand new WTF moment in ESB replacing the other one. This could make a good cliffhanger.. "what? Yoda? still alive?") And have Obi leave Utapau in hurry. Bob managed to get rid of Bail's hologram. having just the radio signal gives us the chance to replace the message and leave it into another place:

C:"this is bail organa's ship" (bail is a senator, he doesn't have time to be communicating with lost Jedi through the galaxy, so have obiwan speak with his captain instead feels more logical to me)..."it seems that there's been a Jedi rebellion. The jedi are being hunted"
OBI WAN: ANAKIN!! (worried). so he goes straight to Coruscant and Padme's, worried by his friend being in danger. By the time he reaches Mustafar and sees what Anakin does to his pregnant wife, we have enough critical mass so as to have them fight.

Pretty doable, I think, compared with other stuff Bob already achieved. The main disadvantage I find on doing it this way is that we just don't have the Obiwan-Yoda chat about Qui gonn.

On another field... ROTS not being oversaturated? Have you taken a look at Felucia, Utapau, Mustafar even? I agree that this episode has more studio-scenes, which is excelent, for we're getting closer to what ANH is (it gets even claustrophobic at time). The more I re-watch it, the more I realize that TPM is, at some points of the movie, the more balanced point of PT technology and OT influence. It feels starwarsy, like some kind of an enhanced, almost 21st century OT.

I insist, even if it's a matinée-like movie, the PT defined the saga as a drama-plotted story. Perhaps you could change a WTF moment in ESB by another (this one a little less strong than "I am your father").

I personally find it interesting, and don't chill about the saga being re-structured as a drama, I find it more human. A story of fall and redemption through love, very faustic. On the other hand I'm very very critical of the way it was made. Which such promising general story, the best GL could pull out was...you know, the PT.

So I had this idea in mind, which I think that could tie a little bit some things. Of course, it wouldn't preserve the WTF moment of ESB. But still, I find it (and hope you too) very interesting. (infact, I'm gonna post it in Bob Garcia's thread too).Of corse I don't pretend that just by putting in excercise this only idea all the problems of the PT would be solved, but let's see.

"He was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil"

"Annie was a good friend"

Well, immaginin' an all-PT-episodes fanedit saga, make it as if Obi Wan was not that impollute Jedi we see in the theatrical release, but someone more in line with the great guy, but yet tricky person we see in the OT. Something ala Qui Gonn. Someone who we know has great intentions however's a little rogue; a Master who could tolerate Anakin being married. Till here's the general EPI-EPII editing.

Let's sink into ROTS. By this point ObiWan should know about Anakin and Padme, so sharing the secret is an implicit way of showing how bonded they are as best friends. On the other hand they are like the best generals from the Order, perhaps except Yoda. So Skywalker-Kenobi are kinda the star boys who have a very particular pov of the Jedi rules.

By the time we reach order sixty six,we just get rid of Yoda, I mean, we see he chop's the clone commander head's off and that's it (so that we make room for this brand new WTF moment in ESB... what? Yoda? still alive?) And have Obi leave Utapau in hurry. Bob managed to get rid of Bail's hologram. having just the radio signal gives us the chance to replace the message and leave it into another place:

 C:"this is bail organa's ship" (bail's a senator, he doesn't have time to be communicating with lost Jedi through the galaxy, so have obiwan speak with his captain instead)..."it seems that there's been a Jedi rebellion. The jedi are being hunted"
        OBI WAN: ANAKIN!! (worried). so he goes straight to Coruscant and Padme's, worried by his friend being in danger. By the time he reaches Mustafar and sees what Anakin does to his pregnant wife, we have enough critical mass so as to have them fight.

Pretty doable, I think. The main disadvantage I find on doing it this way is that we just don't have the Obiwan-Yoda chat about Qui gonn.

Sorry for the long long reply.

I think that at this point, and by the treatment the PT has had, it's rather useless trying to hide Anakins identity as Vader. Radical RADICAL edit has to come through to make it believable.

Don't know what Ady (considering what he said of an hypothetical ROTS:R edit) has in mind, but suppose we just don't see Anakin's surgery... ok, we have obi wan's tale in ANH, "a young Jedi who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil"... DONE, no more secret.

So IMO, we just have to resign this WTF moment ESB has, and try to make something more cathartic out of it; which, is indeed possible, and doesn't require as heavy edit as the idea of giving Obiwan a new apprentice, or rotoscoping Boba.

Since the only SDs which are coloured are ROTS's, I had this idea of making them as gray as the others, just to match the rest of the saga. Make all gray, but one, u know; though I don't know which... If the chancellor's SD (the first we see in the movie would remain the only red stripped SD like making it have some distinction ala Air Force One), or Kenobi's in Utapau; as if Obi Wan was some elite-like military force; so as to match the image we've got of him in ANH (even Tarkin knows Obi Wan Kenobi).

vaderios said:

Retroing some stuff...

Rogue-theX said:

A couple questions; What to do about the light emanating from the planet that is cast on the actors / cockpit? Leave it as is or does the whole cockpit have to be darkened to accommodate the new shot out the window? And how fast should the stars come at us? Just wondering.

Mithrandir Suggested that the window should have stars instead of the planet, recreating Luke's landing to dagobah. I like the idea and even we can change the corvette's flyby to a more distant one again mirroring ESB's luke approaching bespin. A small ship reaching a bright star.
The last shot of the corvette heading to the senate...well i have some surprises if all work together for that shot 

Rogue-theX said:
Is it possible to get the cockpit more retro? i really, REALLY, like where your taking this Angel but it (imo) is still too clean. And how about sinking that center screen with the audio signal into the console a couple more inches while having a protective piece of glass on the top? Or maybe a monitor that is more bulbous in shape like old tube style televisions

I like the idea of sinking the screen inside that border. Hopefully the monitor is visible only in two shots so it wouldn't be difficult keeping the continuity. As for the rest of the monitors that are around the actors im really tempted to replace them with blinking old buttons . Since all the shots are still the only hard part will be roto out the plates.

 

-Angel

I really like the idea of sinking the screens, mostly because it mirrors reality about TV history. 40's screens were like that, while by the seventies (OT) the screens were just as seen in the OT, so technological "evolution" within the saga matches the real technological line. If retroing the cockpit was a goal, this last mock up by Angel's a mid-field goal ala Messi (??).

I like it that at some point technology in the OT looks more advanced than in the PT, like in the case of technicolor (?) holograms, we have them in the OT, but not in the PT.

 Having a wave and not a video gives you the chance of redubbing the message. I suggested Angel having lots of StarDestroyers patroling over Coruscant, and perhaps an Imperial StarDestroyer (just one) which would be like twice the "old" venators size. It would be like the Empire's "new toy". Make the message say something kinda:

 "The chancellor's waiting blah blah... state of siege has been declared (as it happens when most of coup d'etat take place)

http://img834.imageshack.us/i/testcockpittantive2.jpg/

So then have the SDs re-accomodate so as to let the Tantive get through. This will ironically mirror the fact that an hour later in the saga (the beggining of ANH) something's changed and the same ship is being persecuted.

Angel's McQuarrie's heir, don't deny it:P

IMO, z-95 looks like a cheaper version, as if x wing was the full equiped car and z-95 the basical (?). ARC 170 has another design, curve lines which resemble some of the airplanes of the WWII. I edited my post and put a mock up of mine. IMO besides the wings, what makes the ARC170 not X Wingy is the nose.

TPM technology is fine. The ships sparked when exploded, just like in the OT movies. The other two episodes started to mess up things.  What I criticise the most, is the ultra-shiny naboo ships and fighters. PT could have done better with technology. However, I think there's gotta be some balance; I don't want that colourfull, cartoonish stuff the Invisible Hand's bridge is, that's why I support most of what Bob Garcia is doing in his edit in order to OTrize some things, but neither do I want that old, CRT in the OT. And I'm pretty sure that with some effort, it is feasible to give some coherency to the saga. Look at the cockpit of the first ship we see in TPM... it's otish, isn't it?

Look at the ARC-170 fighters... They could be pre-Xwings if they wer shown like this:

http://www.sandtroopers.com/sandwatch/arc170_tru/TRUarc009.jpg

(wel.. more or less)

But they ruin it when they

http://img.swcombine.com/ships/118/large.jpg

Quick mock up of a definitively pre-X wing arc 170 fighter:

http://img192.imageshack.us/i/cwvehiclearc170shadow.jpg/

What could you possibly change of ESB, if not technical stuff?

Spence you said a copuple of posts before that ROTJ is the weakest of the saga; and blamed its lack of tension for it. I think lack of tension is one of the issues, but a direct consequence of a bigger one. ROTJ has IMO, a lack of grandeur; not speaking vissually, but in its story. ROTS though being a regular-bad movie, achieves that.

(It's gonna sound stupid but I can't find another words to say it at this time in the morning) D'you know that feeling when you are entering the highway... you just end going up the ramp, and then it's like everything accelerates and the car is on it's own? Well that could do a good figuration. ESB is the climax of the saga. Right after that, things should have to start accelerating, and let the story be on its own; having not everything to depend on the main three/four characters. ROTS was basically about how a coup d'Etat took place and it needed several elements (characters) here and there (even the clone commanders had their roles) to make it more or less armonic and believable. Having aside Luke (like Anakin in the PT), Leia, and Han could have had minor characters, or have them mixed with other characters who also are engaged with that huge and compromising task that making the Empire fall is.

What I say is "OK, EPVI the last one, now things get massive and hopefully one or two of them will survive, this is gonna be pure adrenaline.. well wait, 40 minutes wasted on Jabba's palace in a rather minimal story compared to the Empire plot". So hope you can do your best, Spence or whoever wants to make something good out of ROTJ, and give us a better movie. 

Of course, it's your edit, your call. Still, we never see Luke's hilt in any other scene of the saga (with that precission), since it's a new sabre; and honestly I don't think  people has Vader's hilt that in mind so as to notice the fake.

If you finde this last suggestion annoying or heavily insisting, I apologize, far from my intention to be so.

SpenceEdit said:

Well I looked at it, and the problem is that we can see Luke's hilt very clearly in his hand. its beyond my abilities to switch their sabers, but I may still have Vader with both of them at the beginning.

 perhaps you could just edit it not to show Luke's hilt. If changing the colours of the sabres is the problem, Bob has experience in that field, he could you how to do it. He's done impressive stuf with Anakin/ObiWan duel in his ROTDS edit

Spence, I remember speaking about this in other thread, but let's drop it also here, so that if you like the idea, you can pick it up.

Right when your last video ends, Vader's trying to attract Luke to the dark side. He's got one sabre in a hand, but there was some mock up that showed him handing actually both his sabre and luke's. I think this could be more menacing; and what's more, perhaps when Luke attacks Vader in anger, he could grab Vaders lightsabre and defeat his father with that weapon just as a way to increase that feeling of "everything's going bad" you say you wanna give to the movie.

In the PT we've seen plenty of duels with people holding two weapons. ROTJ's duel had its "new toy" by being the only duel in the OT with music, but even in Ady's revisited series, it has lost that status. So perhaps having Vader (only for a while) with two sabres could make it more threatening and enhance the scene a little

It's being discussed (once again) the technology desincronization that's between OT and PT in ANH:R thread, specifically, the displays issue.

So I've made a mock up of what could be done to that scene; however I'll post it here so as to leave it more as a general idea than to a punctual suggestion to Adywan (who I think wouldn't ever do something like this in an edit of his).

I think that one of the main issues with OT and particularly with ANH is the dullness of some of the materials the sets are done with. DS walls never look metallic, there're a lot of shadows which shouldn't be there if the illumination had been better, etc. So, since there's no process to make (with acceptable results) something reflective out of a dull surface, why not to replace it with "technological stuff" and kill to birds with one shot? Sorry for the poor quality of the mock ups, my main goal is to share the idea, I'm sure you will get what I'm talkin about.

http://img819.imageshack.us/i/saladecontrol.jpg/

Here's another mock up I've made, this one more as a practise based in a Vaderios previous illustration; and finally, another one from Angel, which IMO was rather unnoticed, though I find it very very good for it gives the scene a new vitality.

http://img545.imageshack.us/i/detailsho1t.jpg/

http://img691.imageshack.us/i/bluedominates.jpg/

(In fact you can see how those guys dressed in blue (after the alteration) make us remember the clone factory in kamino.)

crazy_verbigracia said:

Hello all, as this is a very interesting subject, I'll try to contribute with my own point of view.

Mithrandir said:

 So most of professionals here have it clear that, in some way, their achievements are product of the collective effort of a society who payed their studies. This, for some people, is indeed a "moral debt"; and even if we all have some point of individuality, and ambition, no one lives and progresses completely on their own. 

I do not agree with the idea that you're suggesting: "As I own my (musical) education to society, then my music should be free for all". No matter how you look at it, this "moral debt" doesn't justify piracy. Your ideas remind me eerily of Marx, as the concept that your work is for the society as a whole, and not for you, (non-existence of private property) is one of the main ideas of classic comunism. Of course, our education is paid by other persons, but the so called "moral debt" is an illusion, as we too pay for other people's education

Besides, I wouldn't underestimate the market, surely they'll find someway to solve this "piracy" problem and keep making money.

I agree with you, but again, this doesn't justify piracy. It's not fair to consider that "Even if it's wrong, it will be solved, so I'll do it anyway". Sure, the market will grow two more heads if this one is cut off, but that doesn't mean that the two new heads (DRM, anyone?) are going to be fairer than the old one. 

Cheers

 

 I made the point of the moral debt more as an example in order to point out how people see things in this side of the world. Education here in Argentina is product of a collective effort, and per 10 people that pay taxes, only one gets the degree; so it shows how education(or the degree, which is "intelectual property") is not a "private" property, for it's not only on your own.

Bob have you considered OTrizing the Tantive cockpit? I think that the one of the transport we first see in TPM (where Obi Wan and Qui Gonn arrive to the Fed Ship) could do. It's complete, and even more extense that the Lambda shuttle's from ROTJ; however, it still has that thing that makes it OTish...