Mithrandir

Bob, I have a new idea for your edit that could help you bonding even more in bonding Anakin and Obiwan as friends and workteam. It's a little invasive in the plot and would require some reference in the crawl, and editing both in ROTS as in an AOTC future edit. The changes needed are rather simple, easily doable and minimal, Vaderios could garantee so. There's also a nice moral question that would be left in the air at the end of AOTC.

Resuming, the idea is: Not all the Jedi agree in joining the clone wars as generals. There's a faction led by Mace windu who don't join the grand army after Geonosis. Though there's never actually a break-up within the order, there are disagreements in what to do.

Mace Windu and co. reject joining the war, and want to keep an eye on the senate (erase yoda's dialogue in the council season where they decide throw down palpatin from office) and act on their own when they go to arrest palpatine. As Windu never directly serve palpatine's manipulative objective, there's a new taste for palpatine in killing him the way he did, isn't it?

Yoda, Anakin, ObiWan and KiAdiMundi (the latter just because his protagonism in order 66 sequence) join the army, and usually go abroad.

This way you would be establishing:

a) Anakin/Vader's passion for military operations

b) Anakin and ObiWan being in some way separated from the "rest" of the Jedi, which would make them be more tied for the spectator, as I said, they would be in a way, the Lennon/McCartneys of the order. (you could chain this with other ideas I had about how to bond them in order to have a far more character-centred movie)

c) THE MORAL ISSUE at the end of AOTC regarding the Jedi should fight or stand for peace.

d) THE MORAL ISSUE in the OT of having Vader, ObiWan, and Yoda be responsible of fixing what their former actions did.

As usual, a long post for a rather simple idea. Bob, I have been making some mp3's about the proposed dialogue for the scenes. 3 changes would set this subplot, 2 of them are in ROTS, so if you are interested in this, let me know and I'll PM you.

Cheers, and sorry for the dense post

If you want cool stuff like yoda vs. palpatine, your best edit should be... the theatrical release!

But yeah, BobGarcia if you want an original tetralogy.

fishmanlee said:

vaderios said:

Thats the point guys. Vader doesnt look here and there.

-Angel

Angel what I think he was referring to is like at 9:53 in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnTGy9jS-Dg&fmt=18

 Indeed, I was referring to that excact gesture. But seen from the outside of the window, in the DS. I think I posted a preview a couple of posts ago.

 PS: Yeap, here it is

http://img195.imageshack.us/i/previewj.gif/

Darth Id said:

Thank you.

Definitely not a smoking gun, but might deserve to be quoted in an endnote?

I think a big question that would have been raised if the SE had kept the line intact is: does Red Leader know that 'Father Skywalker' turned into the dreaded Darth Vader?  And if not, why not (and what would he have thought happened to his former friend)?  And if he DID know, might he not be suspicious of Luke, or maybe think fit to mention it?  ("'Skywalker!?'  Dude, bummer about the evil pops, bro.")

I think the proper route would have been to...not monkey with the damn movie in the first place.  But that's just me.

 I had similar doubts about Anakin's official fate. Not just about what was planned back in 77 but also with what's been shown in the CW series, and how would it influence future radical edits of the OT. If officially Anakin never fell to be a Sith and he died as a Jedi, being also the last great star of the Republic, he should have been quite a referent for the Rebels wouldn't he?

Check it out here

I like what you did there. You retro-ized the Slave's clusters too didn't you?

IMO, at some point the republic was still less industrial than the Empire times. Besides, as a Jedi ObiWan doesn't need too many computers on board, that's why I put no wires nor pipes inside the cockpit. I like the simple design of my cockpit which looks civile against the more complex OT designs (I put just two screens and a couple of buttons), but I also like what you achieved in your vid (the old CRT screens against what I made, which look like LCD, it wasn't my intention at all tho, and the metalic/chromed pieces around the screens)

Anyway, it's just a difference in an aesthetical perception/opinion, tho I see we both agree that all those translucid displays and stuff, even as cool as they look, don't fit in SW.

Bob is there any chance that you use some cutted dialogue from the duel against Dooku, in Mustafar?

In ROTJ Vader says "ObiWan once thought as you do" to Luke... and you have this line "this time we will do it together" by ObiWan... perhaps you could manage to insert it at some point of the dialogue as a last attempt ot Kenobi to recover his friend, and what's more could be an autocritical sentence (while in the original dialogue that line was ObiWan scolding Anakin, now it could be "hey, we've been wrong pulling you aside, please join us to destroy palps, this time we'll do it together")

Darth Stewie said:

Mithrandir said:

Very promising to see in movement. Tho I respectfully disagree on giving so much importance to Tattooine in ROTJ. It's a quotidian subplot in a conflict that has gained galactic-wide importance. It just doesn't work the same way that an attempt of the protagonist girlfriend couldn't ever detonate the cloneWars in AOTC. It's just resting size to the galaxy.

 

With all due respect, I'm unable to follow your meaning. It's cool that you have provided me with a constructive opinion but I really didn't understand what you said. Very sorry. Perhaps you could clarify for me?

I meant that, in your album you're planning a lot of things to improve, including a lot of Tattooine stuff in ROTJ (Jabba's Palace, etc). However, from my pov, Tattooine in ROTJ no matter how much visual enhancements you achieve, is a sequence that doesn't fit the climax of the saga at all. It's not a vissual issue the thing on Tattooine, but a plot one.

Very promising to see in movement. Tho I respectfully disagree on giving so much importance to Tattooine in ROTJ. It's a quotidian subplot in a conflict that has gained galactic-wide importance. It just doesn't work the same way that an attempt of the protagonist girlfriend couldn't ever detonate the cloneWars in AOTC. It's just resting size to the galaxy.

 I just made it in four steps to show how I did it. But yes, the one on the right bottom is what I intended to do

Retroing some stuff, even while keeping the pollished style (no wires no pipes, this is not a fully war-ship)

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/6641/sinttulo1og.jpg

Yes, ofc. My question, tho, was whether it's technically plausible or it would mean a lot of work to do it. I still can't meassure with precision how much work do some ideas imply.

I mean, you could do this by just erasing the line of Anakin and editing the scene, or by making VFX for a shot and replacing Anakins mouth/face and keep that shot of Anakin now staring coldly at Palpatine. (the same mad man face we'll see in Mustafar later).

Bob you managed to remove the "don't underestimate my powers" line by motion tracking. It might be productive if you removed the same way the "I'd certainly like to" line when Anakin is pointing Palpatine with his sabre. Make him remain silent for a more Vaderish attitude.

Like the idea a lot. More OTish. However, as some people said above you'd be loosing excellent John Williams score, perhaps having some with music and some without it (considering the duel's edited in paralel with something else)

I think that even if the video is fine as you posted it, I'm curious about what'd be the artistic feeling if you added to the SFX the fast paced breathing of the two of them fighting and the sound of their footsteps. Just to emphatize Anakin and ObiWan's points of view in the duel. Like a tennis match (?). Music could start when Anakin seems to be strangling ObiWan as a dramatical point (and he kicks Anakins back).

There already is an ¿experimental? musicless scene in the theatrical release or ROTS; when Palpatine is about to reveal himself as a sith to Anakin, that dialogue has no score

bobgarcia74 said:

Well the problem with Anakin and Palpatine talking in the senate is the lighting. You can change what's in front of them pretty simple. The problem is with the face shots as they talk. The color tone changes about 200 times. So it's pretty hard to replace the opera with anything, unless it's something that has the color of the room changing every 3 seconds.

One second the background is purple, then its teal, then it's (insert 5 different shades in between). Otherwise I would have done this a very long time ago.

It's a damn good idea tho. Just not possible to make it happen without it being obviously altered

Why not to make it a senate session with a huge hologram that informs about how the war's developing? You could keep the SFX (the people applauding the Republic victories now)

It could be either a guy (a clone or an officer dressed ala imperial, or even more, three or four officers/clone commanders) speaking and telling the news, or it could be an animation of Star destroyers about the strategies/tactics of the republic in the war (the romans used to do this when they sank the arena of the coliseum, I had the idea from that). Having it this way, it'd make it even more natural when Palpatine says "our clone intelligence found general grievous in Utapau"... it'd be kinda "I just saw it on the holonet". 

I figure that as far as the ROTS image implies you would have to change the lighting from purpleish to blueish tones. 

It's a shame that I don't know any 3d animator that could give you a hand to do this.

Cheers

These guys OTrize ROTS so much that some people might think there actually is an Original Tetralogy

When did I ever mention the PT in my post?? ;)

haljordan28 said:

WhatsMyName said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Any ST Lucas would make would suck just as much as - if not more than - the PT, especially since characters from the OT would undoubtedly feature in it and suffer character derailment in the process. 

 

Too late for that. Unless u exclude Harrison Ford.

And as much as i would like to see a VII VIII IX, i don't see how it can be done. if any SW movies should be made, it should be a novel from the Old Republic or something before or during the Clone Wars.

I have always thought an episode between 3 and 4  would be a good idea  as there is much that can be shown  and  their is a back story to take  to it.

At the end of episode 3 the death star is under construction. In a new hope no one knows what the death star is as they approach it in the falcon but all the sudden obi-wan  knows its a space station. I have always thought the force told him that and I still do but there is a chance he knew because he has seen it and been on it before. Hence vader telling ben on the death star "you should not have COME BACK"  as if he had been there before. Vader tells luke that obi-wan once thought as he did when luke tried to turn him back to the good side of the force. That can be bens reason for being on the death star at that time.  Going to try and make one last attempt to save his old friend. Not to mention such a film would give us a chance  to see costumed vader  in saber duels.Which Im all for if it is not the ninja kung fu sword styles we got with the PT. We  could get to see vader hunting down what is left of the jedi. they numbered in the thousands. no way order 66 killed them all.  Plus  qui gon could be in it mentoring obi-wan and training him.

There is much  an episode 3.5 could touch on.

 Yes, there's enough material to make an episode 3.5 even if it was a fan film, a fan animated film or whatever. The live action series... I think GL won't be doing it about Vader persuing the Jedi; IMO he will do as usual, about "the trooper's pov, and the smugglers pov". Why? Because he loves it. He loves those pov, he not only did it in the clone wars, but he put a greaser as a pseudo-HanSoloish character in Indiana Jones IV, and is making a movie about the pilots in WWII.

He loves this characters that have "fonzie's style", and loves to show the quotidian side of things in his galaxy far far away.

I'd be fine with ROTJ by seeing that it takes more (and hope, a lot more) than two stupid fighters to destroy the Executor.

Yes. I'm saying that if the saga was filmed from TPM to ROTJ, possibly Anakin and ObiWan both could have been symbols for the rebellion, since they were the latest great heros of the Republic.

I think it's an idea that should be counted when someone approaches a radical edit of both the PT and the OT.

Which seems to be a little hole in the plot. An important one? no. But it''s a hole that's filled with petroleum and could be exploited in a radical edit: the public relation (specially through the eyes of the rebels) of the old legendary Anakin Skywalker, and his son, who brought A New Hope to the galaxy ;)

Officially he was. That's why I said that for a rebel, Anakin died being a good guy who fought for the Republic.

 The point is whether Anakin was famous enough to become a referent or if he was just some random Jedi... I mean, a referent from past times, just as Che Guevara is for Communist Youths.

So here's the novelisation stuff about Anakin and ObiWan being the Lennon-McCartney of their time. (this reminds me strongly my suggestion of making them rely and worry about each other a little more in an edit of ROTS)

Younglings across the galaxy know their names, know everything
about them, follow their exploits as though they are sports
heroes instead of warriors in a desperate battle to save civilization.
Even grown-ups are not immune; it's not uncommon for an
exasperated parent to ask, when faced with offspring who have
just tried to pull off one of the spectacularly dangerous bits of
foolishness that are the stock-in-trade of high-spirited younglings
everywhere, So which were you supposed to be, Kenobi or Skywalker?
Kenobi would rather talk than fight, but when there is fighting
to be done, few can match him. Skywalker is the master of audacity;
his intensity, boldness, and sheer jaw-dropping luck are the perfect
complement to Kenobi's deliberate, balanced steadiness. Together,
they are a Jedi hammer that has crushed Separatist infestations on
scores of worlds.
All the younglings watching the battle in Coruscant's sky
know it: when Anakin and Obi-Wan get there, those dirty Seppers
are going to wish they'd stayed in bed today. (...)

The adults know that legendary heroes are merely legends, and
not heroes at all.These adults can take no comfort from their younglings. Palpatine is captured. Grievous will escape. The Republic will fall. No
mere human beings can turn this tide. No mere human beings
would even try. Not even Kenobi and Skywalker.
And so it is that these adults across the galaxy watch the
HoloNet with ashes where their hearts should be.
Ashes because they can't see two prismatic bursts of realspace
reversion, far out beyond the planet's gravity well; because they
can't see a pair of starfighters crisply jettison hyperdrive rings and
streak into the storm of Separatist vulture fighters with all guns
blazing.
A pair of starfighters. Jedi starfighters. Only two.
Two is enough.
Two is enough because the adults are wrong, and their
younglings are right.
Though this is the end of the age of heroes, it has saved its best
for last.

 

yes, it actually was in the theatrical pre-SE release... but I meant to insert even more references to Anakin, remember that in the rebels mind, since anakin died as a Jedi, he never ceased to be a great guy, and yet a hero and someone who they're convinced would join their cause.

So yes, that line is fine tho it seems to be a little odd now. It should be a deeper reference to Anakin... More of an astonishment... not something "hey I fought with your father" but more a "what? truly did he have a son? wtf?, u just can't measure how helpful it'd be if he was here now". or something like that, to elevate Anakin Skywalker to the status of Republic Legend.

bobgarcia74 said:

Good idea, didnt see that until after I started this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qfd_AGrSJMw

It's just amazing how the ideas for a parody of a movie come from the movie's author weird ideas. It'd be the same as if you kept adding "from a certain point of view" to a lot of important lines.

Or inventing blood relations between all the characters

I've come with this a couple of times and I think it's time to bring it to debate once again.

Is anakin supposed to be a known public figure in the PT? I think he is, however, other people think he's not.

Either you think one or the other, this might have consequences in the next episodes...If Anakin wasn't THAT known, well, the OT would be fine but the believables reasons for Anakins arrogancy are almost reduced to the half in the PT.Anakin being famous  would contribute to his fall. that's a PT fact for me. However, if he was famous in the PT, he should be some how remembered in the OT.

There's a hole in the saga on that matter...does the people know he's vader? how does tarkin know obiwan was his master?  The imperials seems to know Vader was a Jedi once... yet the Jedi's were traitors but no one ever said a thing so I guess they new that him and the Emperor were dark side users?

If people didn't know that Anakin=Vader, I assume he was supposed to be a "Jedi traitor" who died during the order 66..Anakin never ceased to be a great guy for the ones who are standing for a return to the republic order.

Well, here's the thing:

If he was a JEDI, who fought for the REPUBLIC, and was a warrior of reknown who fell as a VICTIM of the Empire taking over... wouldn't the Rebels in the OT keep the "memory of Anakin" alive? And what's more,  wouldn't they put the "great Jedi warrior" as a referent for them?

I guess they would. What's more, I guess they should, for it would be a nice asset to the saga the fact that the rebels are actually fighting against their hero. I think that having Obiwan and Yoda be the only ones that could speak about such a great and public figure as Anakin was supposed to be in his golden years, is just weird.

So ressuming, what do you think of this? If you put something like "your father was a great warrior kid, If he was here he'd make somethings a lot easier to us" before the attack on the DS would be counterproductive?, or even later, in ESB??

How would affect that Luke's character?? Perhaps Luke's hyper fast escalade in the Rebels jerarchy was half on his own merit and half on his fathers reputation?

Here's some thought. OT has few sets. ROTS has a lot, some of which are barely star-warsy. So... wouldn't it be more suggestive if the "opera scene" took place in somewhere more familiar to us, a place where the Emperor could fool around and toy with his "new" property? (the same way some villains like to play with a small ball pretending it's the world). The scene would be a lot of less fancy this way, and it'd even be a nice shadow of the things to come (the building'd be empty, just couldn't find a picture of the empty building tho, so the viewer would start to think: wait, what the fuck's he doing there alone):

And this one; I made it for fun. Who's with me when saying that the senate cannot be purplish? Added a nice blink to the OT too, that's the place where he shoulda been. Just put him there and you won't have to explain why Vader's such a pussy with him; if it was doable...