Lord Haseo

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

If Leia is Force Sensitive why did Vader not pick up on that in STAR WARS?

Where did this question come from? Anyway, some percentage of population is force sensitive (or if you take Lucas’ word, everyone is force sensitive). I don’t see why would he get “upset” by something completely normal.

The Force would have to be exceptionally strong with Leia as it was with Luke. Seeing as how he noted it during the Battle of Yavin why wouldn’t he note Leia’s strong connection to the Force when he was in even closer proximity to her? It made sense in STAR WARS because it wasn’t planned that Leia and Luke were related at that juncture but Return of The Jedi completely makes that part of STAR WARS nonsensical and that’s something the PT is notorious for.

I still don’t see where are you trying to get with this. There were billions of individuals in the galaxy who were exceptionally strong with the force. What was he supposed to assume when he encountered one? I hope you don’t try to imply he should assume that everyone strong with the force should be his children. I mean he shouldn’t even have any reason to assume he had any children.

I didn’t say anything about him assuming she was his offspring. I was asking why he didn’t pick up on how strong she was in the Force and why would he note Luke’s strength in the Force and not Leia’s.

It was a construction site. You cannot spend twice as much effort and resources to protect it and obstructing the process. That is like trying to take a shit and trying figuring out how to not getting your ass dirty. It will get dirty one way or another. It is better to finish it quickly and then clean it afterwards.

Of course you can when you have the resources that The Empire did. I can understand you saying that when it first started being built but when the Emperor decided that it would be instrumental in the annihilation of the Rebel Alliance he should have taken precautions so that it couldn’t have been destroyed.

Well it is not just a matter of resources. It also depends how much time they had. And they have taken serious precautions… that is why there was a massive fleet guarding it.

The fleet was only there to stop them from escaping.

AK-47 compared to jet fighters and helicopters is just as big gap. And which part of “ewoks were merely a distraction, while rebels (Chewie) did most of the job defeating them” you did not get?

I was actually talking about the Vietnamese vs US ground Troops. The Ewoks didn’t have anything close to blasters and were still able to kill multiple Storm Troopers. When factoring in the speeder bikes and the AT-ST’s the Ewoks were able to destroy 2 of them and take over another and was able to destroy at least two speeder bikes. That’s more than a distraction; they were instrumental in the deflector shield being disabled.

They were indeed instrumental. I have never claimed otherwise. However, the fact is that rebels did the main part.

Well merely calling them a distraction understates their importance.

Well it does. Whether you like it or not.

Can you provide an example?

SE scenes.

Take out the supposed time jump to where everyone is celebrating at the same time (where it’s not even stated or even hinted at that’s it’s any time later than right after the Battle of Endor) and what do you have? Nothing. There are no scenes in the OT where many months or years has passed so why would they do it for that one scene? You’re obviously projecting your headcanon into what’s actually in the film.

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

If Leia is Force Sensitive why did Vader not pick up on that in STAR WARS?

Where did this question come from? Anyway, some percentage of population is force sensitive (or if you take Lucas’ word, everyone is force sensitive). I don’t see why would he get “upset” by something completely normal.

The Force would have to be exceptionally strong with Leia as it was with Luke. Seeing as how he noted it during the Battle of Yavin why wouldn’t he note Leia’s strong connection to the Force when he was in even closer proximity to her? It made sense in STAR WARS because it wasn’t planned that Leia and Luke were related at that juncture but Return of The Jedi completely makes that part of STAR WARS nonsensical and that’s something the PT is notorious for.

It was a construction site. You cannot spend twice as much effort and resources to protect it and obstructing the process. That is like trying to take a shit and trying figuring out how to not getting your ass dirty. It will get dirty one way or another. It is better to finish it quickly and then clean it afterwards.

Of course you can when you have the resources that The Empire did. I can understand you saying that when it first started being built but when the Emperor decided that it would be instrumental in the annihilation of the Rebel Alliance he should have taken precautions so that it couldn’t have been destroyed.

AK-47 compared to jet fighters and helicopters is just as big gap. And which part of “ewoks were merely a distraction, while rebels (Chewie) did most of the job defeating them” you did not get?

I was actually talking about the Vietnamese vs US ground Troops. The Ewoks didn’t have anything close to blasters and were still able to kill multiple Storm Troopers. When factoring in the speeder bikes and the AT-ST’s the Ewoks were able to destroy 2 of them and take over another and was able to destroy at least two speeder bikes. That’s more than a distraction; they were instrumental in the deflector shield being disabled.

Well it does. Whether you like it or not.

Can you provide an example?

imperialscum said:
Please wake up and fasten your seatbelt as we are going to land in Reality. In reality things aren’t as flowery as you imagine.

Please…no more shtick…

Von Braun used slave labour to build V2 rockets that bombed civilians. Was there any “lengthy redemption period”? No, after war he was recruited immediately by US to make rockets for them.

For one he should have been tried for that. Secondly, were any of his victims family members who had had harmed in the past like Vader did to his children? Also that reminds me…If Leia is Force Sensitive why did Vader not pick up on that in STAR WARS?

If you want everything spelt out to you like to a 5 year old, then such complexity really isn’t for you. You are better off with stuff like TFA.

So instead of just throwing your hands up and admitting you’re making stuff up you’re going to continue with your shtick?

OMG. It was a damn construction site… it wasn’t even half-finished…

Given that it had liter gaping holes and was going to be attacked by the Rebel Alliance you would think that some countermeasures would be implemented so that it couldn’t be blown up from the inside. I’m sure they did something about the exhaust port though…

Ewoks were adults, not children. Using term “children” referes to mental capacity and is therefore stupid. Anyway, average Vietnamese solder was “physically unformidable” compared to an average US solder (both in size and weight). Not to mentioned technological equipment.

Ewoks were as strong as children and children could conceivable make the same types of weaponry if you put enough of them in the same place. Also the Vietnamese actually had guns while the Ewoks had spears and sling shots to fight against Storm Troopers with armor plating.

Yes really…

Did you see a time-stamp on that scene? No. I have already established that such thinking is beyond you mental capacity so this might come as big surprise to you… the scene could be 5 years in future.

Above all, it is a SE scene.

It could be but Star Wars doesn’t show random scenes from months or years in the future. Even when looking at the OUT there is no reason for everyone to be celebrating and not talking about what’s the next step for taking down the Empire unless the Empire were finally defeated.

No. You come to this rationale if you just use your brain. I came to it way before I knew EU existed. And EU authors used ROTJ and their brain too to logically come to the same conclusion and then make their stories based on it.

Well I’m glad you all developed the headcanon because George didn’t think that aspect of the story through. I’m glad it’s pretty much been retconned.

imperialscum said:
He did THE good thing. He killed Emperor, which caused Empire’s collapse.

But that still doesn’t undo all of the horrid things he did. There should have been a lengthy redemption period and a period in which both Luke and Leia were still on the fence about Anakin and all the things he did. Leia did go through this in Bloodlines though.

Yoda’s and Obi-Wan’s plan was never to use Luke to defeat Vader and Emperor (because that was impossible). They simply used him as a tool to trigger Anakin’s return, who could kill Emperor (and did).

When the fuck did they say that shit?

the fact Death Star 2.0 exists

That’s the most stupid complaint about ROTJ ever. The fact that Death Star 2.0 exists is a good story telling as it follows a basic logic. When IJN sunk USN aircraft carriers during the initial stages of Pacific War, did USN stop building aircraft carrier? No… they built newer and bigger ones.

Which would have been fine if the Death Star didn’t have a Millennium Falcon sized hole and a unprotected reactor core. I could forgive the rehashing had they made up for it in other ways. The 2nd Death Star didn’t even feel as threatening as the first and it was way bigger. Also why did it take like 2 decades for the First Death Star to be built and like 5 for the second one to be built to the point in which it was operational.

the fact teddy bears somehow overcame the best legion of Storm Troopers The Empire had

There are numerous real life examples when apparently much weaker enemy defeated stronger. And if you actually paid attention to the film, you would see that teddy bears were more of a distraction. Rebels (Chewie in particular) did most of the job. As for “best legion”, Emperor would obviously say “best” to demoralise Luke even if they were “cripple battalion”. There might be a legion-sized unit on the planet guarding different sectors of the huge shield generator complex (film clearly shows it was huge), but that particular back door was obviously guarded by a company-sized unit (which we see in the battle).

Can you point to an example in which primitive children (which have roughly the same amount of combative prowess as Ewoks) defeated a much technologically sophisticated enemy? I don’t think you can. Also had the Ewoks been more formidable physically I could let the obvious technological edge the Empire had slide a little.

the fact that somehow losing the Second Death Star

It is as unrealistic as losing the first one in ANH or as unrealistic as rebels escaping the Hoth blockade in ESB.

I’m not saying that. The part you just quoted and the rest of the sentence is one statement. Not two.

Vader, Palpatine in a few Star Destroyers means the war is over etc.

Juts because you came to such a dumb conclusion, it doesn’t mean it is actually the case.

Oh really?

The death of the Emperor caused a gradual collapse of the Empire. If Emperor survived, the outcome of this battle would be insignificant. This point connects to Luke being used to trigger Anikan’s return who killed Emperor and saved the galaxy.

And this rationale only came about the with the EU and NuEU. As it pertains to the films and the films alone The Empire fell at the Battle of Endor.

imperialscum said:
There are no story telling problems. It is all in your mind my friend.

I dunno. The fact that Vader did one good thing and get’s into Force Heaven, the fact that Yoda is okay with Luke not finish his training even though he said a couple of sentences prior (and in ESB) that only a fully trained Jedi Knight will conquer Vader and his Emperor, the fact Death Star 2.0 exists, the fact teddy bears somehow overcame the best legion of Storm Troopers The Empire had, the fact that somehow losing the Second Death Star, Vader, Palpatine in a few Star Destroyers means the war is over etc. all bother me to no end and since I didn’t have the traditional upbringing when it comes to Star Wars I can’t fall back on nostalgia to counter these issues. I can’t pick apart SW and ESB to that degree; I can only really nitpick as it pertains to story and how it’s executed.

Nostalgia

darthrush said:
ROTJ was a fitting end to the OT but as a finale to the saga it feels a bit weak. This is why I’m so damn excited for episode 9 (not as much as 8) is because it can give me the grand bombastic finale that I’m craving.

Has Episodes X - XII been confirmed? If so then I at least hope Episode IX is the last chapter in the saga that revolved around the Skywalkers.

Earl said:

"ROTJ is on the same level as ESB and ANH"

Oh

Eh. That’s just a technical issue. That’s inconsequential in comparison to the story telling problems it has.

Yeah, also not only did Luke use telekinesis without training as well he also was able to defeat a Master lightsaber duelist without being taught any offensive or defensive lightsaber sequences. The scene where he’s being taught blast deflection doesn’t count.

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Quality of a product (and its properties) must be measurable, otherwise it is not quality. If it is measurable, it has to have an objective measure. Completely subjective things (like film) do not have an objective measure. There is no objective measure for properties such as story, acting, dialogue, music, sound, etc.

Then what term other than “quality” would you use for measuring how good you think something is?

And you don’t measure anything. You simply think how good something is.

There should be a term that pertains specifically to measuring enjoyment. “Quality” works for me because how good I think something is and quality are the same thing when talking about what’s going on in someone’s mind.

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

You believe all of the OT films are of the same quality?

First, quality is non-existent property when it comes to art (i.e. completely subjective things).

It’s nonexistent in the fact that it’s not something physically tangible but it exists in the mind and that is all that is pertinent for this conversation.

Quality of a product (and its properties) must be measurable, otherwise it is not quality. If it is measurable, it has to have an objective measure. Completely subjective things (like film) do not have an objective measure. There is no objective measure for properties such as story, acting, dialogue, music, sound, etc.

Then what term other than “quality” would you use for measuring how good you think something is?

Second, I like them all equally.

SW and ESB I can understand because the have advantages over the other. SW is funnier, more visually interesting, has a catchier soundtrack and has the aura about it. It’s the epitome of classic Star Wars. ESB has a better written script, is better paced, has way better acting and dialogue.

On contrary, EBS is visually more interesting

I have always found the Cantina sequence, Mos Eisley, the Death Star and Yavin IV to be greater visual spectacles than most of the visuals in ESB. Cloud City being the only exception.

while ANH has overall superior acting (there is just nothing in ESB remotely comparable to Cushing and Guinness)

Mark’s performance in ESB was better than both of theirs. While both Cushing’s and Guiness’ were great Marks was damn near Oscar worthy. Also 2/3 of our trio didn’t need to be carried by actors with stronger performances.

As for pacing, it is just a different approach. ESB is jumping slow-fast-slow-fast, while ANH is gradually progressing from very slow to very fast.

I prefer ESB’s way of pacing because it ensures that there aren’t any big lulls in the movie. As great as SW is the stretch on Tatooine before Luke meets Obi-Wan is a tad bit brutal.

I don’t really consider ROTJ as being in the same league. At it’s best it exceeds a lot of moments that came before it but other aspects of the film leave a sour taste in my mouth.

Well you may not consider it, but it is.

It has fundamental problems that the other two don’t have that keep me from putting it on that level.

EDIT:

Also the opening shot in SW is the best shot in a Star Wars movie ever so that really seals the deal for SW being better visually than ESB

Morbid Angel - Suffocation

Ace Hood feat. Rick Ross and Lil Wayne - Hustle Hard Remix

Morbid Angel - Blasphemy of The Holy Ghost

EDIT:

Dissection - Shadows Over A Lost Kingdom (Demo)

MathUser said:

That pic don’t make any sense. Return of the Jedi was made over 30 years ago. Daisy Ridly is 24. If Leia and Luke did it behind Han Solo’s back then they would have known it was incest.

Daisy’s age doesn’t matter seeing as how Rey is 19 but when that is factored in the picture makes even less sense.

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

You believe all of the OT films are of the same quality?

First, quality is non-existent property when it comes to art (i.e. completely subjective things).

It’s nonexistent in the fact that it’s not something physically tangible but it exists in the mind and that is all that is pertinent for this conversation.

Second, I like them all equally.

SW and ESB I can understand because the have advantages over the other. SW is funnier, more visually interesting, has a catchier soundtrack and has the aura about it. It’s the epitome of classic Star Wars. ESB has a better written script, is better paced, has way better acting and dialogue.

I don’t really consider ROTJ as being in the same league. At it’s best it exceeds a lot of moments that came before it but other aspects of the film leave a sour taste in my mouth.

You believe all of the OT films are of the same quality?

I don’t think there was much of a point there; he was just saying it.

As someone who isn’t a Trek fan in the least I liked the first JJ Abrams Star Trek movie (though mostly because it was a lot like Star Wars) so given me not caring about the source material should I watch STID?

This made me giggle

suspiciouscoffee said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Lord Haseo said:

I was contemplating whether or not I should continue watching Supergirl, what with my ambivalence* towards it. That awful costume has made my mind up for me.

*“Ambivalence” as in “having mixed feelings”, not “indifference”.

To be fair, it’s better than Snyder’s DC Murderverse version.

Costume? Maybe. Actor? No. Not even close. Henry at least looks something like Superman. Whoever is play the CW Superman looks like a bad cosplayer.

Dr. Dre feat. Ice Cube - Natural Born Killaz

Smithers said:

Into Darkness is fine but the fact that it’s a complete ripoff remake of Wrath of Kahn bothers me. I’d say Beyond is the best of the three but the trailers looked pretty bad.

DominicCobb said:

If you honestly think it’s a complete remake you either don’t know what a remake is or haven’t seen the film in awhile.

😃

EDIT:

moviefreakedmind said:

Agreed. The worst thing about Scream 2 in my opinion was how the mystery was handled; there were no clues throughout the movie that pointed towards the culprit. I think that going the comedic route was probably a good choice though since there’s really no way to beat the first reveal. Scream is an awesome film. It’s actually where I got my “moviefreakedmind” name from.

Absolutely. The first time I saw it I literally paused the film and thought about who was the killer and came up with nothing because of the contradictory nature of things until the end and then it all made sense.

Formula or not I thought it was a worthy successor but I think there didn’t need to be another mystery of who dunnit because even though it made sense it wasn’t as good as the first twist. Also the sheer eeriness that accompanies the twist in the first movie isn’t even close to being reached in Scream 2.

I think Halloween II is as good of a sequel as you’ll get considering it is a slasher film. Not as well paced, there aren’t those little things that give you chills or outright scare you, the soundtrack isn’t as memorable etc. but it’s fairly enjoyable and I’m glad that this movie is where the reboot/sequel will be succeeding instead of one of the genuinely bad films in the series.

This gave me a much needed laugh today.

The more I think about that theory the more I have come to dislike it. It’s essentially the “No, I am your father” plot twist with Palpatine in place of Vader.