Lord Haseo

suspiciouscoffee said:

Lord Haseo said:

suspiciouscoffee said:

Suicide Squad is getting panned and hearing that made my day.

I’m glad someone finally admitted that they want certain movies to fail.

Well, yes. I hate the “2edgy4u” direction DC’s films are going in under the Dark Lord Snyder, and the sooner it fails, the sooner they have to reboot it all and hopefully not be embarrassed by the comic source material.

The edginess doesn’t bother me because for one they have to tonally differentiate themselves from Marvel. Secondly, if the writing is good it wouldn’t matter if it were dark or was even more lighthearted than Marvel films. I definitely agree with Dark Lord Dudebrah. After BvS it’s almost like jumping into a cauldron of magma to hire him again but if anything DC needs some new people making the executive decisions. They are the root of the issue.

Rumors have circulated that Kelly’s character is an information broker

I stopped reading after it was revealed she was an information broker but if this is true this could add an interesting dynamic as this character could potentially be playing both sides.

Dek Rollins said:

Lord Haseo said:

Dek Rollins said:

Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981)

Just watched the 35mm version, and it was great! I really hope they can get the other print scanned so that it can be filled in, cleaned and polished.

What is the difference between that and the original? I could have sworn there were screenings of TFA that were in 35mm.

That is the original. A scan of a 1982 35mm LPP was done and was released on the spleen. None of the digital home video releases to this date represent the original version of the film.

I definitely see why someone would covet this. It’s like owning the original Mona Lisa or Girl With A Pearl Earring.

EDIT: Also, what on Earth does TFA having a 35mm release have anything to do with a film from 1981?

Because if memory serves TFA and the 35mm version of Raiders is of the same print/scan and that was the first time I had ever heard of a 35mm film.

Dek Rollins said:

Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981)

Just watched the 35mm version, and it was great! I really hope they can get the other print scanned so that it can be filled in, cleaned and polished.

What is the difference between that and the original? I could have sworn there were screenings of TFA that were in 35mm.

TV’s Frink said:

Lord Haseo said:

suspiciouscoffee said:

Suicide Squad is getting panned and hearing that made my day.

I’m glad someone finally admitted that they want certain movies to fail.

You’ve never heard that before?

Never. People who obviously wanted a movie to fail before it came out and would hate it regardless of the finished product’s quality always act as if they wanted to love it and wanted to to break box office records. Though it’s possible I read a few comments on youtube where people said they wanted the Ghostbusters Remake to fail.

suspiciouscoffee said:

Suicide Squad is getting panned and hearing that made my day.

I’m glad someone finally admitted that they want certain movies to fail.

dahmage said:

Lord Haseo said:

We and Impscum were discussing whether we think ROTJ is on par with SW and ESB so it fits. Also let’s be honest without this conversation me and him are having this thread would have faded into obscurity again because actual discussion about Star Wars is at an all time low on here

hey, nothing wrong with wanting to promote new dialog. but it seems like certain users get into the same back and forth in various threads here, and lets be honest, the walls of each quoted sentence gets a bit pedantic and old, and probably makes it even harder for others to join in the dialog, which makes it a two person argument, which isn’t the best dialog for a forum. but all i know is that is how i feel about it, i don’t claim to represent others.

I see what you mean but when it comes to something like Star Wars some topic are layered so that’s going to lead to a lot of smaller debates in the arc of the main debate.

Action Bronson and Friends watch Ancient Aliens is probably the best thing to have ever existed.

darth_ender said:

Lord Haseo said:

darth_ender said:

Lord Haseo said:

darth_ender said:
You’ve clearly assumed it, but whatever, I’m too busy to find examples right now, so let’s just assume you really are giving religious people, myself included, fair consideration as intelligent human beings.

Which is what you should have been assuming this whole time. Funny thing is you’re the only one who seems to notice this intolerance you’re speaking of.

No, I’m not, but I’m also hitting home a point.

I don’t remember Dek or Warbler ever saying that they felt they were being treated as if they were intellectually inferior.

I don’t think anyone in particular feels you were calling them that. I don’t feel like you were insulting me personally. Just religion in general.

So? Given that I adhere to the scientific method and empirical evidence I have every right to believe Religion is stupid. I understand why people gravitate to it (people who were practically forced to believe as a child excluded) but I don’t think the stories and statements about reality in Religions makes any sense.

You’ve made statements that essentially state religion prevents critical thinking

For some people

use of empirical evidence

It does…

and leads to prejudice.

For a lot it does as well. There are millions of people who hate gays because of the passages in the Bible and Quran. I am grateful however that quite a few have forsaken such passages and embrace people for being different than them. And let’s not even get into other groups such as Women, people with other Religions, people who are of the same Religions but are in different sects, Atheists etc.

Your phrasing wasn’t gentle, and if I’d felt you were some threat to my point of view, I might have been more insulted. I’m just saying you do come off as a bit arrogant in how you portray your POV.

In a lot of cases I try not to; but I assure you that this arrogance came after you came at me with contempt.

Also that’s a very poor example you’re using as the line between saying “I hate Black Culture” vs saying “I hate Black people” is very minuscule while hating Religion and being okay with Religious people are completely separate.

Please enlighten me how it’s different. It affects your judgment of me. It affects your judgment of many religious folks. You may be “okay” with them, but you perceive them as unscientific, bigoted, and promoters of hate. Such is not always the case. You allow your judgment to be tainted by your hatred.

It’s different because black culture effects the way black people act in a much simpler way then being a Christian. There are Christians who don’t believe in hating gays and making women subservient to men and there are Christians who don’t agree on the prerequisites for going to Hell etc. so it’s as clear cut as you’re making it out to be because there are many many types of Christians who practice their Religious beliefs in different ways.

I fail to see the difference at all and don’t even fully understand your logic here. Black culture is a complex thing, much like religion. Religion really is a culture, or perhaps a sub-culture, but then again, so is black culture, WASP culture, etc., all falling under American culture. All these cultural norms affect our perception of the world, and all of us have prejudice, whether we care to admit it or not. Don’t oversimplify black culture. The analogy is perfect.

Perhaps I did oversimplify our culture a bit but you vastly oversimplified Christians. I don’t really like doing this but my experience as a mixed man, who has had multiple black friends and even best friends for the entirety of my life and have met many other types of black folk in my days I am telling you that the things that be attributed to black culture exclusively is not as varied as what can be attributed to how different Christians act. Maybe that’s because I haven’t been up North as I should but being Christian (or Religious) is multifaceted in the way that one can adopt the teachings and go about life in adherence to them.

Boy, you sure know a lot about me for having interacted with me so little and really not understanding my posting history. Nice assumptions.

You have been more or less the same thing but okay buddy.

I’ve just quoted what you said and made points about it. I didn’t extrapolate any further than that.

I think using key words in my posts and making statements about them even though you know damn well what I’m talking about counts as extrapolating.

I actually was quoting exactly what you said.

But you know what I meant…I even clarified it.

Lord Haseo said:
Unless you are literally a Bible it is not bigotry. I don’t hate you and I don’t hate Christians in general; I just hate the book.

Not even sure why you bring this up, honestly. I am calling your hatred of Christianity bigotry. Why did you even say this?

“Hate the sin, love the sinner”

That’s why I brought it up

Which has been called here justification for bigotry.

And like I said before there’s nothing wrong with being religious. I just don’t like the Religions themselves.
Meaning I don’t like The Bible, The Quran or any other types of holy texts. I may like certain teachings in them but that doesn’t do much in the long run.

A religion is more than just the Bible, and the Bible is more than just the verse you find offensive. There are good messages in there, and they are ancient texts, ancient guidelines for ancient people.

I have said multiple times that there are good things in the Bible but a lot of them are things you can find in other mediums.

Religion has promoted equality among humans.

Not the Judeo-Christian ones…

But here I want to reassure you that I didn’t call you a bigot for hating the Bible. I am calling you a bigot for literally stating, “I hate Christianity.”

Christians are a group (which happen to fall under that umbrella of Christianity, which you hate).

You know what the funny thing about this is? This all started because I said I hate the Bible. I didn’t say that I hated Christianity or even Religion in general. Just some food for thought. Furthermore I believe the only person to outright say “I hate Christianity” was Darth Lucas and he clarified that he meant that he hated the Bible and not those who read it. So basically you’re bitching about absolutely nothing.

http://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/960187

And what is the center of Christianity? I’ll give you a hint; it’s the thing I said I hated that started all of this.

You said, “Some of us don’t hate you (as in Christians) just the Religion itself…” and now you’re saying, “I didn’t say that I hated Christianity or even Religion in general.” You are a contradictory man.

I was pointing out how this all started. If you go back to the genesis of this entire argument (which doesn’t even start ITT) you will see I was just giving my reasoning for hating the Bible. Nice try.

Actually the center of Christianity is Christ. And Christ preached a very good message, applicable to today. His standards are so high, no one can truly live by them. But we can aspire to do so.

Lord Haseo said:

There’s actually a study that shows that Atheists tend to know more about what’s in Religious texts (primarily the Bible) than actual believers. As someone who used to be a “militant Atheist” a few years back I learned many things about the Bible to fuel my hatred of it and to know what I was talking about when I debated people.

But that is interesting that you used to be a “militant Atheist.” Very revealing.

I hated religion far more than I do now but never did I ever say that I hated Christians. That’s even more telling

See, again you use the word religion, not the Bible. “I hated religion far more than I do now…” You hate religion.

But you know that when I mean Religion I mean the holy texts but you’re using me saying “Religion” to imply that “if I hate X I must hate you by proxy” even though you know damn well what I mean. That’s pretty petty man.

Such hatred does affect your judgment of those who are religious in a prejudiced way. But as I said above, we are all bigoted to some extent.

So you’re omniscient now? You know every thought I have thought about Religious people? If you do you would know I know two people (one being my cousin and the other being someone I befriended when I was doing GED courses and later in College) and both of them are way smarter than me. If I really were prejudice my mind would create excuses to undermine their intelligence but I don’t and can’t because I’m not prejudice.

Everyone has small unconscious biases sure what you’re proposing is full on bigotry and I assure you that is not the case.

We and Impscum were discussing whether we think ROTJ is on par with SW and ESB so it fits. Also let’s be honest without this conversation me and him are having this thread would have faded into obscurity again because actual discussion about Star Wars is at an all time low on here

I forget sometimes that this site used to harbor a plethora of Star Wars discussions…

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Well according to “original” Lucas everyone can have the same abilities if they just train hard enough.

Not canon

Well “original” Lucas is definitely more canon than “special edition” Lucas.

When it comes to a lot of things, yes. Everyone being able to use the Force is not one of them as it would demystify it.

Well it is not good but it is certainly better than force potential being hereditary (which is a nod to midichlorians). In ideal world force potential should be completely random.

Well Anakin is the father of Luke and Leia and they both ended up being Force Sensitive but I doubt that’s specific example doesn’t bother you.

Well I could accept that Luke just happened to be force sensitive by a chance. But Leia being too smells of heritage (and midichlorians). I guess that is the only part of ROTJ that bothers me.

There could have easily been a spiritual/cosmic/whateverthefuck reason for that. It doesn’t need to be microorganisms

If we forget about midichlorians, it is still presented as hereditary process rather than something spiritual and random.

If the Force is spiritual then passing the power onto an offspring is still spiritual. You’re right about it not being random but to me it wouldn’t make sense if offspring didn’t inherit the Force seeing as how they’re luminous beings.

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Well according to “original” Lucas everyone can have the same abilities if they just train hard enough.

Not canon

Well “original” Lucas is definitely more canon than “special edition” Lucas.

When it comes to a lot of things, yes. Everyone being able to use the Force is not one of them as it would demystify it.

Well it is not good but it is certainly better than force potential being hereditary (which is a nod to midichlorians). In ideal world force potential should be completely random.

Well Anakin is the father of Luke and Leia and they both ended up being Force Sensitive but I doubt that’s specific example doesn’t bother you.

Well I could accept that Luke just happened to be force sensitive by a chance. But Leia being too smells of heritage (and midichlorians). I guess that is the only part of ROTJ that bothers me.

There could have easily been a spiritual/cosmic/whateverthefuck reason for that. It doesn’t need to be microorganisms

Density said:

Lord Haseo said:
ESB has a better written script, is better paced, has way better acting and dialogue.

SW/ANH is perfectly paced, ESB lags just a tad in the mid-section in comparison.

And SW lagged in the beginning. Difference being that when ESB slowed down it yielded more character development.

The script is also tighter in the original.

Very debatable. I don’t think either script has anything non essential in it.

The script is textbook execution of its genre in how it sets up and resolves its story, introduces the world and characters, etc.

That it is but I prefer how ESB is a textbook example of taking the premises, themes and characters in the first installment and taking them to unprecedented hights.

And no, ESB is not “way” better in terms of acting and dialogue. Better overall, yes, thanks to Kershner’s direction, but it’s really not all that different in most respects. There’s some clunkers in there worse than anything in SW. (“Two fighters against a star destroyer?”)

That line is only clunky because of the line delivery. “Somebody has to save our skins. Into the garbage chute flyboy” is much much worse from a line writing and a line delivery standpoint.

I will say this for SW, though: It’s the only one that works as a single film. ESB literally requires you watch what comes both before and after it to get the full story.

That’s not even a fair point because ESB is a sequel. That’s like me saying that ESB or TFA makes you want to watch the next installment more knowing full well that SW was made as if it was possible that sequels wouldn’t be made.

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Well according to “original” Lucas everyone can have the same abilities if they just train hard enough.

Not canon

Well “original” Lucas is definitely more canon than “special edition” Lucas.

When it comes to a lot of things, yes. Everyone being able to use the Force is not one of them as it would demystify it.

Well it is not good but it is certainly better than force potential being hereditary (which is a nod to midichlorians). In ideal world force potential should be completely random.

Well Anakin is the father of Luke and Leia and they both ended up being Force Sensitive but I doubt that’s specific example doesn’t bother you.

I bet Dek is really excited for Sonic Mania

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Well according to “original” Lucas everyone can have the same abilities if they just train hard enough.

Not canon

Well “original” Lucas is definitely more canon than “special edition” Lucas.

When it comes to a lot of things, yes. Everyone being able to use the Force is not one of them as it would demystify it.

Dek Rollins said:

I was on a roll seeing ones I liked, and I couldn’t resist but post 😛.

EDIT: Wait, I’ve got more…

I will finish what you started.

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Who says he didn’t sense it? Just because he didn’t spell it out load for you it doesn’t mean he didn’t pick it up. It was just insignificant in the situation. He only said it out loud in case of Luke to inform his TIE flight because it was relevant to the battle. Luke was a serious potential threat because of it.

We make fun of Ric being Captain Obvious in PT and spelling everything out loud, but it seems there are people here that actually need it.

He could have sensed it but the fact that would omit such a thing from Tarkin when the topic of her resisting the mind probe is improbable. Also it seems Vader was talking to himself when he said the Force was strong with Luke. The TIE Pilots wouldn’t even be able to appreciate how much an advantage being Force Sensitive could be in such a circumstance.

Just how would such a pointless information help Tarkin? The reason for her resistance to the probe is inconsequential and it wouldn’t change absolutely anything. If anyone had any skill to break her that way, it was Vader. He clearly couldn’t do it even if he knew she was force sensitive. Reporting the details and reason for his failure to Tarkin makes no difference or sense. Asking Tarkin for an advice on a matter (force) that he had no clue about (and which was actually Vader’s expertise) makes even less sense. Above all, in the end Tarkin had his own method that was inconsequential to the force.

What yhwx said

What I replied to him.

Having someone who is strong in the Force like Leia is is something important. If he did sense her it was something he at least could have mentioned in passing.

That is assuming she was exceptionally strong. She could be simply strong and therefore nothing special. And we have been over why conveying this kind of pointless information was pointless.

“The Force is strong in my family. My father has it, I have it…my sister has it” no where in that conversation where Luke says “You have a strong connection to the Force but not as strong as mine”. Also like I said before they’re twins; it wouldn’t make any sense if one ended up being stronger in the Force than the other. Finally Leia had to be as strong because she is the “other” Yoda was speaking of. I didn’t hear Obi-Wan saying she was inferior in terms of her potential. It’s not an assumuption like the ones you’ve been making; what I’m saying actually has merit.

Well I didn’t hear Luke saying “you are as strong as I am”. He simply said he has the power too, no mention of magnitude. I didn’t hear Yoda saying “there is another, just as strong” either. It is your assumption.

“At the center of the movie is a lot of exposition, it’s a lot of explaining what has happened, and why things are the way they are. In this particular case, there is a whole issue of Luke’s sister, and you know, the fact that they were twins. Which is an element that has to be revealed, which comes in later, in terms of who is the ‘other’ that was talked about in Empire Strikes Back. And how could that person become as powerful as Luke? Well obviously if they were twins, then if she were trained, then, she has the same abilities as Luke has. That becomes an important issue, especially in terms of resolving all the love triangles.” - George Lucas, ROTJ DVD Commentary.

YOU’RE WRONG

Well according to “original” Lucas everyone can have the same abilities if they just train hard enough.

Not canon

And besides, Tarkin didn’t seem to give a shit about that kind of things. Another reason why conveying such a pointless information to him would be, well, pointless.

There’s nothing in STAR WARS that suggests he dismisses the Force outright. He is incredulous to believe that Obi-Wan is alive and thinks Vader is the last of their religion but nothing more.

Well there is certainly way more evidence that he didn’t give a shit. Because there is none that he would possibly do.

What evidence?

ANH.

Care to provide a line of dialogue?

Let’s take Lucas’ “everyone can do it”. I am sure if he was into that kind of stuff he would pick some of the crew who happened to be exceptionally strong in the force and make them “powerful” allies.

Also not canon.

That might have been a secondary objective during the battle. But the primary objective before the battle was obviously protection.

That’s not what is stated in the film. Again, you’re projecting headcanon onto what actually happened in the film.

What is stated in the film is a temporary tactical decision in the battle, not the purpose of the fleet’s presence (before the battle).

From the script.

103 INT SUPER STAR DESTROYER - BRIDGE

Admiral Piett and two fleet commanders watch the battle at the huge
window of the Super Star Destroyer bridge.

COMMANDER
We’re in attack position now, sir.

PIETT
Hold here.

COMMANDER
We’re not going to attack?

PIETT
I have my orders from the Emperor himself. He has something special
planned for them. We only need to keep them from escaping.

Exactly supports what I said… it is a battle related tactic not purpose of fleet’s presence.

There’s nothing in the script that says that the fleet is there to protect the Death Star but what is in the script indicates that they’re there to stop the Rebels from escaping. Just admit you’re wrong dude.

Don’t be ridiculous. You are taking it out of context. You simply don’t understand the meaning of the scene. And you don’t understand what is the context of “We only need to keep them from escaping”.

I will explain it to you again (for the third time, this one is last). The scene conveys what a tactical order for the fleet was during the battle (portion of it anyway, as TIE fighter were attacking and later trying to prevent rebel ships from entering Death Star). It has nothing to do with overall purpose of fleet’s presence before the battle.

I don’t care about your headcanon. Either pull something directly from the film or don’t respond. I’m tired of your half assed rationalizations.

The “We only need to keep them from escaping” being a tactical battle decision is part of the script/film. “TIE fighters protecting Death Star by trying to prevent rebel ships from entering it” is also part of the script/film.

For one the TIE’s more than likely came from the Death Star. Secondly, that has nothing to do with the Star Destroyers and the Super Star Destroyers keeping the Rebels from escaping.

I give up on you. Last time was the last time.

Thank you.

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Who says he didn’t sense it? Just because he didn’t spell it out load for you it doesn’t mean he didn’t pick it up. It was just insignificant in the situation. He only said it out loud in case of Luke to inform his TIE flight because it was relevant to the battle. Luke was a serious potential threat because of it.

We make fun of Ric being Captain Obvious in PT and spelling everything out loud, but it seems there are people here that actually need it.

He could have sensed it but the fact that would omit such a thing from Tarkin when the topic of her resisting the mind probe is improbable. Also it seems Vader was talking to himself when he said the Force was strong with Luke. The TIE Pilots wouldn’t even be able to appreciate how much an advantage being Force Sensitive could be in such a circumstance.

Just how would such a pointless information help Tarkin? The reason for her resistance to the probe is inconsequential and it wouldn’t change absolutely anything. If anyone had any skill to break her that way, it was Vader. He clearly couldn’t do it even if he knew she was force sensitive. Reporting the details and reason for his failure to Tarkin makes no difference or sense. Asking Tarkin for an advice on a matter (force) that he had no clue about (and which was actually Vader’s expertise) makes even less sense. Above all, in the end Tarkin had his own method that was inconsequential to the force.

What yhwx said

What I replied to him.

Having someone who is strong in the Force like Leia is is something important. If he did sense her it was something he at least could have mentioned in passing.

That is assuming she was exceptionally strong. She could be simply strong and therefore nothing special. And we have been over why conveying this kind of pointless information was pointless.

“The Force is strong in my family. My father has it, I have it…my sister has it” no where in that conversation where Luke says “You have a strong connection to the Force but not as strong as mine”. Also like I said before they’re twins; it wouldn’t make any sense if one ended up being stronger in the Force than the other. Finally Leia had to be as strong because she is the “other” Yoda was speaking of. I didn’t hear Obi-Wan saying she was inferior in terms of her potential. It’s not an assumuption like the ones you’ve been making; what I’m saying actually has merit.

Well I didn’t hear Luke saying “you are as strong as I am”. He simply said he has the power too, no mention of magnitude. I didn’t hear Yoda saying “there is another, just as strong” either. It is your assumption.

“At the center of the movie is a lot of exposition, it’s a lot of explaining what has happened, and why things are the way they are. In this particular case, there is a whole issue of Luke’s sister, and you know, the fact that they were twins. Which is an element that has to be revealed, which comes in later, in terms of who is the ‘other’ that was talked about in Empire Strikes Back. And how could that person become as powerful as Luke? Well obviously if they were twins, then if she were trained, then, she has the same abilities as Luke has. That becomes an important issue, especially in terms of resolving all the love triangles.” - George Lucas, ROTJ DVD Commentary.

YOU’RE WRONG

I don’t pull anything from crap material. The only thing that matters is OT.

Of course you don’t. The only thing you pull from is from your own ass. You can’t even pull things from the OT a lot of the time without them being wrong.

Unfortunately I am not. You are supporting midichlorians. Equal power among twins is basically what midichlorians would be about.

Twins having equal strength in the Force =/= microorganisms that bring about one’s connection to The Force. With that idiotic accusation I could say that both Luke and Leia being Force Sensitive is supporting midichlorians which is stupid because midichlorians didn’t exist when there was only the OT.

And besides, Tarkin didn’t seem to give a shit about that kind of things. Another reason why conveying such a pointless information to him would be, well, pointless.

There’s nothing in STAR WARS that suggests he dismisses the Force outright. He is incredulous to believe that Obi-Wan is alive and thinks Vader is the last of their religion but nothing more.

Well there is certainly way more evidence that he didn’t give a shit. Because there is none that he would possibly do.

What evidence?

ANH.

Care to provide a line of dialogue?

That might have been a secondary objective during the battle. But the primary objective before the battle was obviously protection.

That’s not what is stated in the film. Again, you’re projecting headcanon onto what actually happened in the film.

What is stated in the film is a temporary tactical decision in the battle, not the purpose of the fleet’s presence (before the battle).

From the script.

103 INT SUPER STAR DESTROYER - BRIDGE

Admiral Piett and two fleet commanders watch the battle at the huge
window of the Super Star Destroyer bridge.

COMMANDER
We’re in attack position now, sir.

PIETT
Hold here.

COMMANDER
We’re not going to attack?

PIETT
I have my orders from the Emperor himself. He has something special
planned for them. We only need to keep them from escaping.

Exactly supports what I said… it is a battle related tactic not purpose of fleet’s presence.

There’s nothing in the script that says that the fleet is there to protect the Death Star but what is in the script indicates that they’re there to stop the Rebels from escaping. Just admit you’re wrong dude.

Don’t be ridiculous. You are taking it out of context. You simply don’t understand the meaning of the scene. And you don’t understand what is the context of “We only need to keep them from escaping”.

I will explain it to you again (for the third time, this one is last). The scene conveys what a tactical order for the fleet was during the battle (portion of it anyway, as TIE fighter were attacking and later trying to prevent rebel ships from entering Death Star). It has nothing to do with overall purpose of fleet’s presence before the battle.

I don’t care about your headcanon. Either pull something directly from the film or don’t respond. I’m tired of your half assed rationalizations.

The “We only need to keep them from escaping” being a tactical battle decision is part of the script/film. “TIE fighters protecting Death Star by trying to prevent rebel ships from entering it” is also part of the script/film.

For one the TIE’s more than likely came from the Death Star. Secondly, that has nothing to do with the Star Destroyers and the Super Star Destroyers keeping the Rebels from escaping.

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Who says he didn’t sense it? Just because he didn’t spell it out load for you it doesn’t mean he didn’t pick it up. It was just insignificant in the situation. He only said it out loud in case of Luke to inform his TIE flight because it was relevant to the battle. Luke was a serious potential threat because of it.

We make fun of Ric being Captain Obvious in PT and spelling everything out loud, but it seems there are people here that actually need it.

He could have sensed it but the fact that would omit such a thing from Tarkin when the topic of her resisting the mind probe is improbable. Also it seems Vader was talking to himself when he said the Force was strong with Luke. The TIE Pilots wouldn’t even be able to appreciate how much an advantage being Force Sensitive could be in such a circumstance.

Just how would such a pointless information help Tarkin? The reason for her resistance to the probe is inconsequential and it wouldn’t change absolutely anything. If anyone had any skill to break her that way, it was Vader. He clearly couldn’t do it even if he knew she was force sensitive. Reporting the details and reason for his failure to Tarkin makes no difference or sense. Asking Tarkin for an advice on a matter (force) that he had no clue about (and which was actually Vader’s expertise) makes even less sense. Above all, in the end Tarkin had his own method that was inconsequential to the force.

What yhwx said

What I replied to him.

Having someone who is strong in the Force like Leia is is something important. If he did sense her it was something he at least could have mentioned in passing.

That is assuming she was exceptionally strong. She could be simply strong and therefore nothing special. And we have been over why conveying this kind of pointless information was pointless.

“The Force is strong in my family. My father has it, I have it…my sister has it” no where in that conversation where Luke says “You have a strong connection to the Force but not as strong as mine”. Also like I said before they’re twins; it wouldn’t make any sense if one ended up being stronger in the Force than the other. Finally Leia had to be as strong because she is the “other” Yoda was speaking of. I didn’t hear Obi-Wan saying she was inferior in terms of her potential. It’s not an assumuption like the ones you’ve been making; what I’m saying actually has merit.

There were billions of other highly force sensitive people across the galaxy.

Is there a canon source you can cite that says there are billions of Force Sensitives that are strong in the Force?

The source is Lucas himself (during OT era).
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/22/star-wars-prequels-return-of-the-jedi_n_3313793.html

A majority of the ideas he had at the time didn’t come to fruition. If anything you should be trying to pull something from TCW.

And even if they are strong I doubt they would have the potential that is akin to a Skywalker.

Supporting midichlorians idea, aren’t you? Disgusting…

…

I think it’s safe to say you’re full on trolling.

And besides, Tarkin didn’t seem to give a shit about that kind of things. Another reason why conveying such a pointless information to him would be, well, pointless.

There’s nothing in STAR WARS that suggests he dismisses the Force outright. He is incredulous to believe that Obi-Wan is alive and thinks Vader is the last of their religion but nothing more.

Well there is certainly way more evidence that he didn’t give a shit. Because there is none that he would possibly do.

What evidence?

That might have been a secondary objective during the battle. But the primary objective before the battle was obviously protection.

That’s not what is stated in the film. Again, you’re projecting headcanon onto what actually happened in the film.

What is stated in the film is a temporary tactical decision in the battle, not the purpose of the fleet’s presence (before the battle).

From the script.

103 INT SUPER STAR DESTROYER - BRIDGE

Admiral Piett and two fleet commanders watch the battle at the huge
window of the Super Star Destroyer bridge.

COMMANDER
We’re in attack position now, sir.

PIETT
Hold here.

COMMANDER
We’re not going to attack?

PIETT
I have my orders from the Emperor himself. He has something special
planned for them. We only need to keep them from escaping.

Exactly supports what I said… it is a battle related tactic not purpose of fleet’s presence.

There’s nothing in the script that says that the fleet is there to protect the Death Star but what is in the script indicates that they’re there to stop the Rebels from escaping. Just admit you’re wrong dude.

Don’t be ridiculous. You are taking it out of context. You simply don’t understand the meaning of the scene. And you don’t understand what is the context of “We only need to keep them from escaping”.

I will explain it to you again (for the third time, this one is last). The scene conveys what a tactical order for the fleet was during the battle (portion of it anyway, as TIE fighter were attacking and later trying to prevent rebel ships from entering Death Star). It has nothing to do with overall purpose of fleet’s presence before the battle.

I don’t care about your headcanon. Either pull something directly from the film or don’t respond. I’m tired of your half assed rationalizations.

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Who says he didn’t sense it? Just because he didn’t spell it out load for you it doesn’t mean he didn’t pick it up. It was just insignificant in the situation. He only said it out loud in case of Luke to inform his TIE flight because it was relevant to the battle. Luke was a serious potential threat because of it.

We make fun of Ric being Captain Obvious in PT and spelling everything out loud, but it seems there are people here that actually need it.

He could have sensed it but the fact that would omit such a thing from Tarkin when the topic of her resisting the mind probe is improbable. Also it seems Vader was talking to himself when he said the Force was strong with Luke. The TIE Pilots wouldn’t even be able to appreciate how much an advantage being Force Sensitive could be in such a circumstance.

Just how would such a pointless information help Tarkin? The reason for her resistance to the probe is inconsequential and it wouldn’t change absolutely anything. If anyone had any skill to break her that way, it was Vader. He clearly couldn’t do it even if he knew she was force sensitive. Reporting the details and reason for his failure to Tarkin makes no difference or sense. Asking Tarkin for an advice on a matter (force) that he had no clue about (and which was actually Vader’s expertise) makes even less sense. Above all, in the end Tarkin had his own method that was inconsequential to the force.

What yhwx said

What I replied to him.

Having someone who is strong in the Force like Leia is is something important. If he did sense her it was something he at least could have mentioned in passing.

and it would be foolish not to alert Tarkin of someone who could be a powerful ally if they could be turned. Hell, Vader even tells Luke if he doesn’t turn to the Dark Side that he’ll try to turn Leia in ROTJ.

Powerful ally? She seems pretty worthless in ANH from that perspective.

A Skywalker? Worthless? What?

There were billions of other highly force sensitive people across the galaxy.

Is there a canon source you can cite that says there are billions of Force Sensitives that are strong in the Force? And even if they are strong I doubt they would have the potential that is akin to a Skywalker.

If Emperor would be into such allies, there was far better material out there (plus ones that might actually like Empire to begin with).

It still wouldn’t hurt to at least try to turn her like he tried with Luke. Also let’s not forget that Darth Vader was once a Jedi Knight 😉

In ROTJ Vader tells that to Luke simply to make him angry.

Fair enough but if Luke were killed or taken out of the picture turning Leia would be the next best thing.

We don’t know her force potential anyway. It could be way below Luke.

They’re twins…

And besides, Tarkin didn’t seem to give a shit about that kind of things. Another reason why conveying such a pointless information to him would be, well, pointless.

There’s nothing in STAR WARS that suggests he dismisses the Force outright. He is incredulous to believe that Obi-Wan is alive and thinks Vader is the last of their religion but nothing more.

That might have been a secondary objective during the battle. But the primary objective before the battle was obviously protection.

That’s not what is stated in the film. Again, you’re projecting headcanon onto what actually happened in the film.

What is stated in the film is a temporary tactical decision in the battle, not the purpose of the fleet’s presence (before the battle).

From the script.

103 INT SUPER STAR DESTROYER - BRIDGE

Admiral Piett and two fleet commanders watch the battle at the huge
window of the Super Star Destroyer bridge.

COMMANDER
We’re in attack position now, sir.

PIETT
Hold here.

COMMANDER
We’re not going to attack?

PIETT
I have my orders from the Emperor himself. He has something special
planned for them. We only need to keep them from escaping.

Exactly supports what I said… it is a battle related tactic not purpose of fleet’s presence.

There’s nothing in the script that says that the fleet is there to protect the Death Star but what is in the script indicates that they’re there to stop the Rebels from escaping. Just admit you’re wrong dude.

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Who says he didn’t sense it? Just because he didn’t spell it out load for you it doesn’t mean he didn’t pick it up. It was just insignificant in the situation. He only said it out loud in case of Luke to inform his TIE flight because it was relevant to the battle. Luke was a serious potential threat because of it.

We make fun of Ric being Captain Obvious in PT and spelling everything out loud, but it seems there are people here that actually need it.

He could have sensed it but the fact that would omit such a thing from Tarkin when the topic of her resisting the mind probe is improbable. Also it seems Vader was talking to himself when he said the Force was strong with Luke. The TIE Pilots wouldn’t even be able to appreciate how much an advantage being Force Sensitive could be in such a circumstance.

Just how would such a pointless information help Tarkin? The reason for her resistance to the probe is inconsequential and it wouldn’t change absolutely anything. If anyone had any skill to break her that way, it was Vader. He clearly couldn’t do it even if he knew she was force sensitive. Reporting the details and reason for his failure to Tarkin makes no difference or sense. Asking Tarkin for an advice on a matter (force) that he had no clue about (and which was actually Vader’s expertise) makes even less sense. Above all, in the end Tarkin had his own method that was inconsequential to the force.

What yhwx said and it would be foolish not to alert Tarkin of someone who could be a powerful ally if they could be turned. Hell, Vader even tells Luke if he doesn’t turn to the Dark Side that he’ll try to turn Leia in ROTJ.

That might have been a secondary objective during the battle. But the primary objective before the battle was obviously protection.

That’s not what is stated in the film. Again, you’re projecting headcanon onto what actually happened in the film.

What is stated in the film is a temporary tactical decision in the battle, not the purpose of the fleet’s presence (before the battle).

From the script.

103 INT SUPER STAR DESTROYER - BRIDGE

Admiral Piett and two fleet commanders watch the battle at the huge
window of the Super Star Destroyer bridge.

COMMANDER
We’re in attack position now, sir.

PIETT
Hold here.

COMMANDER
We’re not going to attack?

PIETT
I have my orders from the Emperor himself. He has something special
planned for them. We only need to keep them from escaping.

darth_ender said:

Lord Haseo said:

darth_ender said:
You’ve clearly assumed it, but whatever, I’m too busy to find examples right now, so let’s just assume you really are giving religious people, myself included, fair consideration as intelligent human beings.

Which is what you should have been assuming this whole time. Funny thing is you’re the only one who seems to notice this intolerance you’re speaking of.

No, I’m not, but I’m also hitting home a point.

I don’t remember Dek or Warbler ever saying that they felt they were being treated as if they were intellectually inferior.

Also that’s a very poor example you’re using as the line between saying “I hate Black Culture” vs saying “I hate Black people” is very minuscule while hating Religion and being okay with Religious people are completely separate.

Please enlighten me how it’s different. It affects your judgment of me. It affects your judgment of many religious folks. You may be “okay” with them, but you perceive them as unscientific, bigoted, and promoters of hate. Such is not always the case. You allow your judgment to be tainted by your hatred.

It’s different because black culture effects the way black people act in a much simpler way then being a Christian. There are Christians who don’t believe in hating gays and making women subservient to men and there are Christians who don’t agree on the prerequisites for going to Hell etc. so it’s as clear cut as you’re making it out to be because there are many many types of Christians who practice their Religious beliefs in different ways.

Boy, you sure know a lot about me for having interacted with me so little and really not understanding my posting history. Nice assumptions.

You have been more or less the same thing but okay buddy.

I’ve just quoted what you said and made points about it. I didn’t extrapolate any further than that.

I think using key words in my posts and making statements about them even though you know damn well what I’m talking about counts as extrapolating.

Not even sure why you bring this up, honestly. I am calling your hatred of Christianity bigotry. Why did you even say this?

“Hate the sin, love the sinner”

That’s why I brought it up

Which has been called here justification for bigotry.

And like I said before there’s nothing wrong with being religious. I just don’t like the Religions themselves.
Meaning I don’t like The Bible, The Quran or any other types of holy texts. I may like certain teachings in them but that doesn’t do much in the long run.

But here I want to reassure you that I didn’t call you a bigot for hating the Bible. I am calling you a bigot for literally stating, “I hate Christianity.”

Christians are a group (which happen to fall under that umbrella of Christianity, which you hate).

You know what the funny thing about this is? This all started because I said I hate the Bible. I didn’t say that I hated Christianity or even Religion in general. Just some food for thought. Furthermore I believe the only person to outright say “I hate Christianity” was Darth Lucas and he clarified that he meant that he hated the Bible and not those who read it. So basically you’re bitching about absolutely nothing.

http://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/960187

And what is the center of Christianity? I’ll give you a hint; it’s the thing I said I hated that started all of this.

Lord Haseo said:

There’s actually a study that shows that Atheists tend to know more about what’s in Religious texts (primarily the Bible) than actual believers. As someone who used to be a “militant Atheist” a few years back I learned many things about the Bible to fuel my hatred of it and to know what I was talking about when I debated people.

But that is interesting that you used to be a “militant Atheist.” Very revealing.

I hated religion far more than I do now but never did I ever say that I hated Christians. That’s even more telling

Citation please? Just because I call it like I see it doesn’t mean I’m being overly sensitive. I have far harder discussions in real life with atheists. Why would I be too sensitive to handle featherweight arguments on an Internet board with people I will never meet in real life?

Pick any of the posts you’ve made accusing people of being bigots because they don’t like your religion. Also you bring up a good question but I have no idea why you’re crying so much to people you will never interact with face to face.

Am I crying?

Probably

I thought I was trying to have a (half–mine of course) intelligent discussion with you. And you continue to use much stronger language, indicating a much stronger emotional response and greater sensitivity to what I’ve said.

At least my response wasn’t predicated on putting words in your mouth and trying to tell you what you said isn’t really what you said. Aside from you shooting baseless accusations it takes a special kind of arrogance to tell someone what they really said and feel.

No, I think any firmly held belief can do that. Including atheism.

See: Lord Haseo 😉

WRONG ATHEIST

I know it deepy affects your worldview, but you are a bigot. DENIAL.

In your skewed worldview? Yes. In the worldview most people know to be true? No.

imperialscum said:

Who says he didn’t sense it? Just because he didn’t spell it out load for you it doesn’t mean he didn’t pick it up. It was just insignificant in the situation. He only said it out loud in case of Luke to inform his TIE flight because it was relevant to the battle. Luke was a serious potential threat because of it.

We make fun of Ric being Captain Obvious in PT and spelling everything out loud, but it seems there are people here that actually need it.

He could have sensed it but the fact that would omit such a thing from Tarkin when the topic of her resisting the mind probe is improbable. Also it seems Vader was talking to himself when he said the Force was strong with Luke. The TIE Pilots wouldn’t even be able to appreciate how much an advantage being Force Sensitive could be in such a circumstance.

That might have been a secondary objective during the battle. But the primary objective before the battle was obviously protection.

That’s not what is stated in the film. Again, you’re projecting headcanon onto what actually happened in the film.

Distraction can still be crucial.

I agree however I consider the fact that the Ewoks killed many Troopers and destroyed AT-STs made them more than a distraction. They were somewhat of a viable threat.

Just because there are no other scenes before, it doesn’t justify your self-made-up “rule” where Star Wars cannot have such scenes. Just because I haven’t eaten this specific fish until today, it doesn’t mean I couldn’t possibly eat it today.

The fact that it doesn’t happen in other films signifies that it’s following the passing of time that is abundant in the Star Wars films.