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and added nothing to any sense of peril?
I mean they were eating people…if I were in their positions I’d be shitting in pants.
By the way that concept art is sorta proof that the people behind TFA weren’t lying on their arses and blatantly making a reboot of A New Hope. They consciously, with EFFORT, decided to go for the look we ended up seeing. Otherwise, if you see what I mean, the concept art would be redundant.
Or they had interesting new ideas but ditched some of them for brand recognition reasons.
which GL certainly can be branded with.
Are you referring to the Flash Gordon + Akira Kurosawa Films influence? If so you kind of have a point.
Perhaps he’ll be confirmed Plagueis in said DisnEU material, but I just don’t see it happening in the movies, even if only for the reason that no casual viewer would know or care who Plagueis is.
It’s possible but it would be kind of insulting to omit such a crucial detail in the films for the sake of not confusing people who have a less than rudimentary knowledge of the franchise. And yes, I am speaking as an entitled Star Wars aficionado.
There are those who even say the “No, I am your father” twist wasn’t there since the genesis of Star Wars.
It wasn’t. Who thinks that it was?
A few really devoted Lucas fans. They even claim that he intended on there to be 9 films. Some say he intended for 12 films to be made.
Also, they’re not going to make him Plagueis,
Well I say they should and they will. We’ll just have to wait and see.
I don’t think Johnson, Kasdan, Abrams and co. even remember or care about a character who only exists because of a single mention in the PT.
That doesn’t mean they still couldn’t make him Plagueis. We all know that Lucas didn’t intend on having Luke and Leia being related at first but it still happened. There are those who even say the “No, I am your father” twist wasn’t there since the genesis of Star Wars. So why does that invalidate the possibility that they could make Snoke Plagueis even if they didn’t originally have that in mind?
ZkinandBonez said:
That really would undermine the OT in my opinion.
I don’t care. The OT will always be the OT; future films are going to up the anti in some departments so it seems like an excuse to not do grandiose things regardless of how good they are just because the OT was pretty simplistic in nature. If you can do more/better then why shouldn’t you? Should Stephen Curry not try to become the greatest offensive Basketball player of all time because it would “undermine” Kobe or Jordan? Of course not.
Also I don’t see how him waiting for Palpatine’s demise is a cowardly move, I’d call it tactical and patient.
He didn’t need to wage war with The Empire. He could have just killed Palpatine and assumed control over The Empire. He was at least an expert in the Dark Side at the time so I couldn’t see why he would take the easy way out. If Snoke were Plagueis you’d understand why he’s be more tactful after Palpatine’s assassination attempt.
I do think a new threat with it’s own new backstory would work better than to bring back some name that was given in passing four movies ago
Plagueis pretty much is a new threat. And if Snoke is Plagueis obviously his philosophies have evolved seeing as how he would have abandoned the Rule of Two so his end game could be completely different from what it was when Palpatine attempted to kill him. Furthermore, Snoke being a new character could backfire in so many ways if his back story isn’t written right. It’s the safer and better option (for the Saga at large) to just make him Plagueis.
I should probably have phrased that better. My point was just that they tend to treat the canon almost as they would history. Many fans (not referring to anyone on particular) tend to insist that SW follow a degree of continuity that would makes sense had it been real, but which would only be convoluted in a fictional narrative.
E.g. the whole Snoke is Plageuis thing would be a poor narrative choice
I respectfully disagree. Having the plan of who we regard as the greatest Sith Lord in galactic history to be part of a much larger scheme would give the entire Saga more gravitas. Not only that Plagueis’ midichlorian manipulation (they could call manipulation of the Living Force if they wanted to distance themselves from the PT) could make Plagueis/Snoke the most malignant villain we’ve seen in the Saga.
It’s better than having him be some random guy who just waited for Palpatine to fall in order to rise to power. Would make him look like a bitch. Now if Snoke is some other pres established character I wouldn’t mind that all too much.
not to mention very confusing to casual viewers.
Most casual viewers should know Plagueis from Palpatine’s teaching in ROTS.
By the way that concept art is sorta proof that the people behind TFA weren’t lying on their arses and blatantly making a reboot of A New Hope. They consciously, with EFFORT, decided to go for the look we ended up seeing. Otherwise, if you see what I mean, the concept art would be redundant.
Or they had interesting new ideas but ditched some of them for brand recognition reasons.
None of the concept art proves the plot would have been vastly different if these ideas were implemented into the film.
Watched it and liked some of the changes while I didn’t like others. But when the “No…NOOOOOOO” thing happened I had to shut it off. Sorry man.
It’s a little more than that. Even though I nitpick small things that the movie get’s wrong due to my knowledge in the real life counterparts the film is still a masterpiece in every sense. Saw it again like 3 months ago and it still holds up.
Density said:
That seems to be more of an out-of-universe explanation.
Actually if you want an out of universe explanation you could just call it a big plot convenience. The thing I linked you two is a story (aka in universe) reason for why R2 suddenly wakes up when the plot requires him too.
I don’t see how it rules out that in-universe explanation. I still think Luke instructed R2 to only show the map when his daughter was there.
They could do both but the thing I posted is technically canon while R2 waking up just because of Rey’s presence is merely a theory. A plausible one…but still a theory.
I tried to download the 1080p version and initially I tried to download it all in one zip folder and the download suddenly stopped at 48% and after 2 consecutive attempts I opted to download it piece by piece.
Lord Haseo said:
It doesn’t even stick to TFA in the way some people on the internet would have you believe.You know, there is no “anti-EpVII church” kind of thing plotting against Disney and spreading the word on the evil internet that EpVII is a rehash of the OT
Never even said anything that alluded to that but okay.
some people think EpVII is totally new and they have the right to think so; other people think it feels déjà vu and it does rely too much on the OT and they have the equal right to think so. You don’t agree
No I don’t because the answer lies somewhere in the middle. I’m not liable to be swept up in internet extremism.
ok, now just get over it.
You’re still salty about the other thread lol
Some kind of “New Chosen One” in order to explain her stunning abilities, and to extend (finish ?) the balance of the Force subplot (like it on not, it “feeds” the entire saga, even EpVII makes a reference to that).
No…just no…the Revanesque mind wiping thing fixes all of the problems with her seemingly being a Mary Sue and doesn’t even remotely have the stink of the prequels on it. Even if she was some super entity of The Force it wouldn’t account for everything just like having her just be a Skywalker wouldn’t account for everything.
by the way everybody is wishing (expecting ?) to see some training montage, but don’t you think this is déjà-vu stuff ?
For one the training can take place in the first act of the film while everything else is relatively new. Also it’s possible we get to see Kylo Ren’s training and that’s something that we haven’t seen in the films yet. Also if the training and Kylo Ren beating Rey is pretty much the only things that mirrors ESB the whole “rehash” argument really won’t stick. It doesn’t even stick to TFA in the way some people on the internet would have you believe.
Even needed stuff ?
I would like to have it in there just for the character development those scenes would have.
- Kylo will continue to struggle with an inner conflict between the light and dark, his killing of his father having backfired to have the opposite effect of what he wanted, which was to put an end to the conflict.
I don’t think so. I think he may feel regret during his training with the Supreme Leader but I think the embarrassment at being bested by Rey, his devotion to what Vader stood for and the deterioration of his mental state is going to cleanse any speck of light that was inside of him with the training putting the final nail in the coffin.
That’s why R2 did not light up and reveal the map until Rey was there. Luke told him to only show the map to her.
Fraid that’s not possible due to there already being an in universe explanation
- There might be more of these mysterious “Knights of Ren.” It’s possible that many of the Jedi Luke was training fell to the dark side, not just Kylo, and so these are like the new Sith except not bound by stupid concepts like the “Rule of Two.”
I think it’s pretty much an absolute certainty we’ll see them seeing as how many people were disappointed that they were only in one scene.
- Rey is Luke’s daughter.
- Snoke is Darth Plagueis.
I too believe these will be revealed in Episode VIII but to elaborate on what I think is going to happen:
In addition to finding out Luke is her father Rey will also find out that Kylo Ren wiped her mind after he defeats her
Kylo Ren’s training will be shown right along Rey’s
Luke has been secretly training Jedi in his time on Planet Ireland (this is more of a hope than anything)
Kylo Ren and Hux’s bantering will escalate and in turn will lead to a full blown schizm in Episode IX
It will be confirmed that either Finn or Poe is force sensitive
Kylo Ren will grow more mentally unstable
I also think Rey will turn to the Dark Side. There’s nothing to back this up; just a gut feeling.
I mean, if you have to include the prequels you might as well do it machete order:
Star Wars
The Empire Strikes Back
Attack of the Clones
Revenge of the Sith
Return of the JediThis is the WORST thing you can actually do. Putting PT in the middle of OT contaminates the OT and its feel.
I agree it creates a certain type of disconnect due to the different feel of the films but as it pertains to story telling the machete order is the most sound choice IF you’re including the prequels.
dkeighobadi said:
I actually like this. Naivity being her biggest hindrance. That can be explored in many ways later on.
That can lead her to the Dark Side. If Luke tells a truth “from a certain point of view” or even an outright lie she will most likely believe it but when confronted with the actual truth she may have resentment for him and the Order that let such a lie be permissible. But if she does turn to the Dark Side (which I hope she does) it needs to be more than that; it has to be about power too.
even for the supposedly “monotone” Rey.
I’ve seen her be called flawless and perfect but not monotone. But then again I saw someone on youtube who said she would be the Jar Jar of this trilogy. People just say whatever these days whether it’s applicable to the topic/character or not.
Sheepish said:
I’ve considered cutting her death for continuity reasons, but I like the irony of her death too much. I’ll find a way to work around the continuity of IV
I think you mean ROTJ because that’s where Leia says the thing about remembering her mom.
I’ve actually been playing around with adding Dooku to the end of Episode I, watching in the distance during the funeral scene, as Qui-Gon was supposedly his apprentince. The idea is to give his character a bit more depth, and sort of make the death of Qui-Gon be the final tear in Dooku’s connection with the Jedi.
That’s a great idea but executing it should prove difficult. In the novel Darth Plagueis I believe that was Dooku’s last straw before resigning from the Jedi Order.
dkeighobadi said:
True, of course. Nice little antithesis going on there. Just to clarify, I don’t dislike repetition for repetition’s sake. Mirroring can be useful, poetic almost. But I feel maybe it’s a bit too deliberate in TFA.
In this specific parallel I find it poetic but something like Starkiller Base seems like repetition for repetition’s sake
Also, I love how Han has accepted the force, which he didn’t even do in Return of the Jedi. He’s been on a long journey, and he’s experienced a lot.
In no way do I see that as fan service; I just see that as the evolution of the character.
But yeah, maybe even tie it in to, gasp, a weakness of Rey’s!
Her believing that her family will come back after YEARS and her believing Finn to be a Resistance member even though he was clearly lying indicates that she’s naive which is a weakness in my eyes.
because atm there are no constraints on her and it therefore feels somewhat artificial.
I think there should have been a second reason that she uses as her buffer even though he real reason for wanting to stay is in case her family returns. Something like debt. It worked well in Path of Destruction and I think it would have fit in well here.
Maybe?
MalàStrana said:
But she could at least get acting lessons.If anyone needs it it’s Carrie Fisher, but I quite liked most of Daisy’s performance. Though there is always room for improvement.
Daisy Ridley’s performance was better in this film than Mark Hammil’s was in Star Wars to me.
I don’t think many people will disagree on that one. Mark’s performance in ESB and Daisy’s performance in TFA are on par though.
dkeighobadi said:
When LordHaseo said this for example, Rey desperately wants to be reunited with her family and at this point in borders on denial and when she touches Luke’s lighsaber and has her vision she wants no part in it largely because she was terrified of Kylo Ren. I immediately thought of Luke and how at first he too didn’t want to leave, which I had even forgot about. The point being is that this in particular is totally unnecessary. She could have a different but equally valid reason to stay.
Interesting parallel…though wanting to stay to help your family’s farm and staying just in case your family comes back for you are kind of different…BUT both can be boiled down to a strong sense of family value. Interesting parallel indeed.
The point being is that this in particular is totally unnecessary. She could have a different but equally valid reason to stay.
To be honest I can’t think of what anyone would want to stay on a Planet like that where there are hundreds of thousands if not MILLIONS of exponentially better worlds out there. But if you have a better reason please do share it.
And the “it’ll be explained in the later movies” excuse does not hold, it needs to be a movie in its own right (character-wise, plot wise its sound), just like A New Hope was.
To be fair ANH absolutely had to be a single contained story with no allusions to a sequel only because there was no guarantee that there would be a sequel much less an entire Saga. So by that basis I think it’s unfair to compare the too in that regard.
If you really need to see TFA so soon, you can probably find a theater that’s still playing it relatively easily.
You’re right. I live in Florida and multiple theaters are still showing it multiple times a day. Am probably going to have my 5th viewing this weekend. Would be a great excuse to avoid spending the entirety of the weekend with Family.
MalàStrana said:
But she could at least get acting lessons.
If anyone needs it it’s Carrie Fisher, but I quite liked most of Daisy’s performance. Though there is always room for improvement.
Not sure if this is answered before but is Adywan adding any deleted scenes?
I don’t believe so.