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Ok well screw the Target version. I just wish the standard Blu-Ray version wasn’t so eh…the standard DVD cover is perfect though.
Deleted scenes and bonus content only come with the Target one? Good thing I pre ordered it from them since I had a gift card.
No, just a couple exclusive interviews etc. Most of the features are on all of them.
Sooooo “etc.” means non pertinent stuff or?
Who says it’s something they gotta learn before they die?
Apparently George does because it’s an ability in the PT.
Why bring the PT into this? It’s notorious for incorrectly (or implausibly) portraying things.
Because they’re canon. And even if you leave them out of it there’s still no explanation as to why Anakin turned into a Force Spirit. You’d have to assume that all Jedi are just taught that.
ray_afraid said:
Well, I just watched ROTJ a few weeks ago, and Anikin had no problem ditching his evil ways
That’s fine…I just wish they hadn’t made it seem like all of the darkness inside him dropped instantly. Maybe if Kylo Ren renounces the Dark Side (which I highly doubt) they could have him atone for his misdeeds.
“The cave! Remember your failure at the cave!”
“But I’ve learned so much since then!”
IMO, that bit of dialogue hints that something more than two weeks worth of training passed by.
That’s a very good point and I hope he got at least 2 months of training. That would explain why someone who has never been trained in actual lightsaber combat was able to land a hit on a Lord of The Sith. There’s no way 2 weeks of could explain why Luke was able to hit an undisputed master of lightsaber combat.
Who says it’s something they gotta learn before they die?
Apparently George does because it’s an ability in the PT.
Obi-Wan wasn’t the perfect example of a squeeky-clean do-gooder. He lies to and manipulates Luke.
I don’t think you have to be Jesus to be a jedi.
Telling a truth “from a certain point of view” and doing what Vader did (especially the child killing) are completely different things.
Nobody’s a “completely good person”.
Even going from being a Lord of The Sith to a “normal” person would require some type of transition.
I’ve heard a lot recently that Luke’s training in ESB was a whopping 2 weeks. The events that take place in the film don’t indicate it taking place over several months.
Firstly, Lord Haseo, I completely agree with you about Rey so we can just leave it at that. I, however, just see no need to say that everyone who found it hard to believe she could beat Ren is a moron who cannot use their brain.
You’re putting words in my mouth…Please don’t do that. I’m merely stating that people don’t think about extenuating circumstances when looking at things in films (or really anything) anymore. That’s all
EDIT: It’s not an inability for these certain people to use their brains; it’s more like a stubborn refusal.
moviefreakedmind said:
Being able to beat Kylo Ren
The film makers put in extenuating circumstances that led to Kylo Ren’s defeat. Having people use their brains was too much to ask for seeing as how the meme culture frowns upon it but in my mind that doesn’t excuse a large number of people from not thinking.
and read his mind without any legitimate training is what bothered a lot of people.
Didn’t seem to bother a lot of people when Luke deflected those blaster bolts after a few seconds of “training” from Obi-Wan. That and him blowing up the Death Star are just shrugged off. If were comparing impossible feats Luke blowing up the Death Star is far more outlandish than Rey defeating a severely wounded Kylo Ren and getting into his mind.
Lastly, why can’t people wait until her origins are full explained before calling her a Mary Sue? Is simple patience too much to ask for as well?
2 weeks is ridiculous. I mean the film premiered in Australia 2 days before and the UK got it 1 day before we did in the US and the notion that a privileged few was going to see the film before I did was almost too much to bare. Let alone two weeks.
Bingowings said:
The plot beats would still be very similar to ANH but making them look different would mask the similarity.
To people who have seen STAR WARS once sure but to people who know the film like we do will see through it.
Clearly a choice was made to make the similarity more obvious for branding purposes.
The entire film was designed to cater to both new/casual and life long fans. It was definitely a higher up who wanted this to happen; I doubt JJ and Kasdan initially wrote the script with paying homage in mind.
If anyone wanted some tips on making the Kylo Ren is Han and Leia’s son reveal happen later in the film here you go. I think the interaction with Snoke and Kylo doesn’t necessarily work all that well but I will be editing the Lars San Tekka death scene in this manner for my personal fanedit.
ray_afraid said:
He wasn’t committing suicide, he was trusting the force.
It’s still ridiculous no matter what spin you put on it. Plus him attempting to off himself sends a stronger message; a message that he’d rather die than to become an agent of evil.
To me the saga ended with a perfect wrap up in ROTJ.
For our characters? Definitely. For the overall story? Nope. The prospect of teddy bears being the thing that topples The Empire is…distasteful. Also having the entire Galaxy celebrate the victory of the Rebellion over The Empire when there are surely millions of Storm Troopers and hundreds of thousands if not millions of ships left doesn’t make any sense either. The war would have been far from over.
On a side note how Vader got redeemed was beautiful but him showing up as a Force Spirit is troublesome too. For one how did he know the ability? Secondly, is all of the darkness inside him gone? It would be unconvincing to me if suddenly Anakin is a completely good person with no signs of his old temperament.
I don’t know…the ending just never worked for me.
Luke attempting suicide only to be conveniently saved due to plot armor
Han being a bit too antagonistic and sort of creepy towards Leia for their romance to entirely work
So does anyone think that The Empire Strikes Back will ever be topped as the best Star Wars movie ever made?
Probably not but with the way the ST is coming along it’s possible Episode VIII could do it. Here’s to hoping.
And could we try to solve the problem of Rey kinda being a Mary Sue.
She isn’t so we don’t need to…and fuck that offensive term, btw.
Well there’s a term called Gary Stu so it goes both ways.
Except it’s almost never used.
Ok you got me on that one.
Please don’t try to justify a sexist term.
I’m not trying to justify it; I’m just saying that there is a male equivalent. I’m not giving my opinion if using the term is moral or whether the term has validity in a general sense.
- Rey possibly getting her mind wiped which would explain her being competent with the lightsaber
Do you mean she learned to use a lightsaber in the past, and then her mind was wiped, and then she can use the saber because of muscle memory? Just curious if that’s what your point is here, because I got super confused the first time I read that sentence.
If we’re going by Knights of The Old Republic mind wiping principles she could have gotten training at any point in her life from ages 5-14 and after Ben Solo betrayed Luke and slaughtered the Jedi Order she could have had her mind wiped and re programmed with a new identity (just like Darth Revan in Kotor) and left on Jakku. Either when she touched the lightsaber or when she got in Kylo’s head did her suppressed training start to resurface. Kylo Ren even says
“She’s just beginning to test her powers. The longer she’s free, the more dangerous she becomes.”
Which is something else that happened in Kotor. She also dreams of the planet Luke is on (which indicates she might have been there already) just like Revan and Bastila had dreams of the each piece of the map that lead to the Star Forge. I know it sounds crazy but seeing as how concepts like the good guys facing off against a remnant of The Empire like in the Thrawn Trilogy or having Kylo Ren be similar to Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus it’s not farfetched to believe that they wouldn’t use this element from the EU as well.
But muscle memory is something that I hadn’t thought of.
And could we try to solve the problem of Rey kinda being a Mary Sue.
She isn’t so we don’t need to…and fuck that offensive term, btw.
Well there’s a term called Gary Stu so it goes both ways.
Rey being a Mary Sue
Most of the argument falls flat when you bring into account her days as a scavenger and Han’s inability to maintain the Falcon properly (just watch ESB if you think I’m lying). Her flying skills do not eclipse Han’s because not only did she nearly crash the ship before she even took off she also skidded the Falcon across the ground while the TIE fighters pursued her. Han does nothing of the like in the OT. Not only that in the novelization it is stated that the Rebel helmet had a VR simulator and that’s how she grasped a rudimentary knowledge of flying. Her abilities in the Force is still up for debate until we know her complete back story. Her knowing binary and the language of the Wookies is stated in the Visual Dictionary to be a result of meeting a plethora of beings and droids in Jakku. Though something like this should be common sense.
I really really wish people would stop calling her that. At least until we know the full extent of her back story. A Revanesque mind wiping would fix all these supposed problems.
Luke and especially Anakin in RoTs are way more flawed and relatable
Luke was flawed in the ways that makes one think “He’s a good kid at heart but he has problems that he’ll most likely overcome through experience and time” whereas Anakin just has problems and is just a bad person.
so that when scenes like Anakins immolation happen you feel the emotion more viscerally than when Rey defeats Kylo for example
If Anakin was likable in anyway you’d be right.
(And, RoTS soundtrack destroys TFA soundtrack).
Destroys is a strong word but I do agree it’s better.
trimming the light saber battle so Rey doesn’t win but just holds on, and moving Planet destructions to later in the film would really benefit TFA.
What about Kylo Ren’s facial scar? Also there’s enough in the film to see why she could have won
Kylo Ren being shot by Chewie’s bowcaster
Kylo Ren’s sword arm being damaged
Rey demonstrating prowess in melee combat
Kylo Ren being weakened by the guilt of killing Han (novelization states this)
Kylo Ren being tired before the duel with Finn, dueling him only to duel Rey immediately afterward
Rey’s awesome command in The Force
Kylo Ren not engaging in a serious (or any) lightsaber duel in years
Kylo Ren not completing either his light side or dark side training
Rey possibly getting her mind wiped which would explain her being competent with the lightsaber
But I guess it was a bad decision to make people think about extenuating circumstances.
The music for immolation scene is stronger/more emotional than “Torn Apart” in TFA IMHO
No argument here. The music in that scene is among the best John Williams has ever made. Top 10 for me personally.
Completely agree that episode 7, and episode 4 are jumping points and the true legacy will be decided in 8 and 9. But here’s hybrid RoTS fan edit vs TFA comparison:
Story/ideas: RoTS>TFA
Characters: RoTS<TFA
Action: RoTS<TFA
Humor: RoTS<TFA
First Act: RoTS<TFA
Second Act: RoTS<TFA
Third Act: RoTS=TFA
Emotional Impact: RoTS<TFA
Immolation Scene<Hans Death Scene
Fixed that for you.
The immolation scene comes close but I don’t care about Anakin and I care a little about Obi-Wan whereas in TFA I care a great deal about both Han and Ben Solo. And in terms of characters in general there’s no one that really stands out in ROTS with the exception of Obi-Wan and Palpatine. In TFA we have Rey, Finn and Poe (who are instantly likable unlike most “characters” in the PT) Han, Chewie and Leia who still have the same great chemistry from the OT and a great character (but not yet a fully realized villain) in Kylo Ren. The emotional impact of ROTS is next to nil for me. A bunch of Jedi I don’t care about had nothing on when Han says:
Han Solo: Take off that mask. You don’t need it.
Kylo Ren: What do you think you’ll see if I do?
Han Solo: The face of my son.
or when even after he’s stabbed he reaches out and touches his son’s face as he is dying. Even though I didn’t cry when Han died the 4th and my most recent viewing of TFA made me come dangerously close to it. Even things like when Rey scratched her wall for everyday she’s on Jakku hits me more emotionally than anything in ROTS. Mainly because I actually care about the characters.
The legacy of the ST will be determined by Episodes VIII and IX. TFA was a good jumping off point but just like with STAR WARS it will be the sequels that determine whether this trilogy fades into obscurity or not.
darthrush said:
Honestly, a hybrid fan edit of L8wtr and Hal’s for episode 3 is better than TFA
On par? Maybe. Better? Absolutely not (in my opinion). TFA get’s it right in ways the PT could never do; fanedit or nay. They both have problems but even a fanedited version of the PT has far more. The biggest problem being that they don’t feel like Star Wars.
A lot of different ideas thrown back and forth in this video, but many of them are quite interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgKumd7TRN0
The idea that Snoke was once a Jedi that survived the purge makes a lot more sense to me than him being some ancient Sith, or just some random guy who trained himself.
Him having received his scars during the purge (or order 66) then having hidden in the unknown regions, where he would then have encountered the remnants of the Empire could be an interesting backstory, which also has the benefit of not being to hard to explain to the more casual viewer. This would also explain why he doesn’t affiliate himself with the Sith and has instead made is own Dark Jedi order.
I like a number of this guys’ videos. Mainly the one concerning Rey’s backstory
I also found another tidbit while watching TFA yesterday that might suggest that Rey got her mind wiped. Rey dreams of the island where Luke is just like Revan dreamt of the locations of the Star Forge.
As it pertains to the Supreme Leader the theory is sound but just about any theory concerning him can be considered sound because we know nothing about him. I personally think that Snoke was either an Inquisitor or Jedi. I also think that we’ll get some indication of who he is in Rebels.
Finished the edit and thought it was pretty well done. Pros and cons below
Pros:
-love that Dagobah scene is shifted to being the second scene.
-Trimmed up Jabba palace scenes were nice
-enjoyed the shuttle scene trimmed up to mirror ESB more
-cut out cutesy Ewoks stuff overall which is greatly appreciated
-Darth Vaders head disappears
-Ending with Luke and leia theme is very nice indeedCons
-audio for Yodas extra line and Hans “son of a bitch” line stick out badly. Luke’s line in his x wing on the way out of Dagobah is not synced right.
-took out rancor sequence which is plain iconic and with SE updated effects it holds up just enough
- deleted scenes quality is just too bad if quality for me to accept in my definitive edit
-kept in Vaders noooo
^ Pretty much this. But to add to it.
Pros:
Cons:
If I think of any more I’ll edit my post with new pros and cons.
and so silly
I disagree. I’d love to know why you think that way though.
They felt like the PT. That’s the easiest way to explain it.
I think that’s just due to the CGI being a bit shoddy. If the CGI was more convincing or there was a combination of CGI and practical effects it wouldn’t feel that way. But I see where you’re coming from.
but the things were so fake
Fair point
and so silly
I disagree. I’d love to know why you think that way though.
it was dragging him around instead of eating him like it did with everybody else
You obviously weren’t paying attention. There was one shot in some of the members of Kanjiklub were being dragged away before one of them got their hands on Finn.
It’s also been discussed before how he wasn’t even bruised after all that.
I don’t remember it violently smacking him against the wall. Other than his ankle (maybe) he should have been relatively fine. Shaken up by the ordeal but physically fine.