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SilverWook said:
And why wouldn’t the Resistance be using updated A Wings? We live in a world where the Air Force is still flying B-52 bombers. A now sixty one year old design.
And it’s only been 30 years since from ROTJ to the ST.
lovelikewinter said:
It seems the PT generation is always trying to discredit the OOT.
Just like every nonsensical fad that has arisen in the last few years it’ll pass.
Oh, it totally is. It’s why my edit is taking a long time. I’ve already got my main edits done, it’s just the godforsaken audio. As for replacing sound effects in some places, I don’t mind. Most of the lasers and stuff sound freaking cool, like when the Millennium Falcon flies into the ship on Jakku; those laser sounds from the Falcon sound really explosive and cool. But on the other hand, the explosion and laser sounds for the X-wing fight on Maz’s castle, sound really lame. Really nothing impressive or special.
Isn’t there a repository of Star Wars sounds official released by LucasFilm? If so I hope they update it with the sound effects in TFA 😃
Bleed For the Devil- Morbid Angel
No…he misspelled it once, was corrected and is now using it out of spite. Kind of like a “nanananabooboo” kind of thing.
Well I’m hoping that
Anyway, it’s been fun hanging around for awhile. So long and thanks for the fish !
is an indication that he’s gone for good. I’m going to hold on to that wish for dear life.
I like the milicia for reminding me that manhunts, dick behavior, pure aggressivity and weak jokes are still pretty common on the internet, especially in a forum that seems very nice on the outside.
I like how you just shit on the thread.
I hope you didn’t expect him to do anything different.
MalàStrana said:
I like the milicia for reminding me that manhunts, dick behavior, pure aggressivity and weak jokes are still pretty common on the internet, especially in a forum that seems very nice on the outside.
You wouldn’t be “hunted” if you didn’t act like a child. You posting that is indicative of the problem certain users have with you…You act like a fucking child.
JediExile said:
I’m not arguing that the point you’re trying to make is wrong, but I think it’s wrong to compare Satanists (who choose to worship Satan/act like edgy special snowflakes) to the First Order soldiers (who were abducted as kids and forced to commit horrible acts worse than any goth teen with his little copy of The Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey ever could).
It’s not the circumstances that lead both people to that situation. The comparison I’m trying to make is that it’s someone being revolted at seeing horrific things that tie these two situations together. I could have easily used the people who defected from the Nazis as another example but I chose this one.
Also I’m talking about real worshipers of Lucifer not LaVeyan Satanists. I’m talking about the cults that actually sacrifice people.
Fair enough, it just seems odd that Finn should place the lives of people he doesn’t know over the only people he does know.
He didn’t have much of a choice. He just wanted to get away from the First Order.
They already used X-Wings so why not A-Wings.
Also who knows their might be new ships as well.
Just in case that slipped your mind.
They already used X-Wings so why not A-Wings.
Also who knows their might be new ships as well.
That’s sad because implementing sound effects at just the right time should prove to be a tedious tedious task.
I also like that LuckyGungan shows me that I’m not alone in my generation. 😄
And you both show that age is not necessarily an indicator of maturity 😄
We’re told what could be a false premise (like how Obi-Wan told Luke Vader betrayed and murdered his father) and that’s all we need to know for now. But if you really want to go in depth we should take this to another thread.
Now about your edit…have you found some way to remove all or most of the music? I’ve been messing around with the Rey v Kylo duel and even though I delete all audio channels (except the dialogue/sound effect channel if course) music still plays during that scene
Oh so Episodes VIII and IX were canceled?
Also let’s not forget Luke’s origin was revealed in ESB which was a sequel.
JediExile said:
in short the Satanist comparison falls flat for me.
Devil worshipers who are way over their head is but one example of people who have changed paths after seeing horrid things done to others by the faction/group they idolize/work for.
Also the situations in which an analogy is made don’t have to be exact but the message someone is trying to convey does.
I can’t be sure, but I remember Finn watching his friend get shot and I remember Finn watching Poe be interrogated by Kylo. Finn’s shot was the only blaster shot coming from pretty much the opposite direction of the villagers after all and it was easy to line up that shot and where Finn was dragged out from. But no I really can’t as I don’t own the movie yet.
Just because he saw Poe being interrogated doesn’t mean that he would instantly know it was Poe that killed him when there was an active battle going on. I’m sure he’ll find out eventually but it would unrealistic for him to know that immediately.
then I don’t think either of them are too responsible for being put in danger. I’ll still stand by Rey being responsible for chasing down and beating Finn though.
Fair enough
But seriously, dragging her out of danger mostly has to do with the fact that she isn’t reacting well to the danger.
Technically he didn’t give her the time to react initially before taking her hand but I digress
While girls might get dragged around more in films, this is one scene where it’s completely justified by the situation.
The first time was kind of justified but holding on to it for the length of time that he did wasn’t.
Well you know, when you’re getting shot at or with a wanted man, you tend to recognize danger when the bad guy points and shoots at you. Rey just kinda zoned out and focused on the droid when there was still a clear and present danger. And whizzing (is that the right word to describe this) ion engines right above you.
Single minded maybe but childish…no
There is no issue though because Finn never expressed doubt in her abilities.
Even if he didn’t mean it that way him holding her hand for so long is indicative of that. As is doing it twice.
Him holding onto her hand longer than he should have is just him focusing on not getting killed over letting Rey be the strong independent woman who don’t need no really handsome John Boyega.
While his intentions were pure he already knew Rey was capable of running on her own so it wasn’t warranted past getting her out of immediate danger.
He does it once and that’s it.
No, he took her hand twice.
Actually arguing about the hand holding makes me wonder if people were pissed about Leia being somewhat competent in STAR WARS.
JediExile said:
Wanting to be a Satanist doesn’t sound like being forced to fight for the First Order. Also most Satanists don’t tend to do animal sacrifices, at least LaVey Satanists don’t. They just like to act edgy.
There are different circumstances overall but some would be satanists see horrid things and end up rethinking their involvement in such a group. Just like Finn.
No because the death of the trooper was a very short moment that was never mentioned again and Finn later grouped up with his killer so I assumed that it was a random Stormtrooper. Usually you don’t become friends with your friend’s killer.
And can you point me to anything in the film that points to the fact that Finn knew that Poe killed his friend or that Poe knew that he killed Finn’s friend? You can’t because there Finn doesn’t know that Poe killed his buddy and there were some villagers fighting with the first order when the Jakku Village was being attacked so how could he?
She immediately started running after him, yes. I don’t know about you, but if I saw a woman that just kicked serious ass and then responded to a droid furiously beeping at me by running after me, I’d get the fuck out of that place.
I probably would too but in Rey’s eyes it probably made him look more guilty.
Well to be perfectly fair, if I heard that someone just died escaping from the First Order and their “partner” just happened to be that someone, I might reconsider being around them. Also I might reconsider letting BB-8 around me.
Well by the time she knew of everything the thugs were already on their way to tell the Storm Troopers about everything. It was already too late.
Also she put herself in that situation, some responsibility lies on her. She chose to chase Finn down, it’s not like BB-8 zapped her until she ran.
I can’t put blame on someone for their ignorance. Especially when there was no way to ascertain the truth.
I agree, she’s not a bitch. She was bitch-y though.
Fair enough. Considering the place she came up in it’s a miracle that she’s as good of a person as she is. She could have turned out to be a horrible person.
And he did let go.
No she shook his hand off.
And he could have said run, but honestly Rey was acting a little bit ridiculous in the hut checking on the droid that was virtually spotless after being shot at.
Yelling it would have snapped her back into it.
Her gender has nothing to do with Finn grabbing her hand too
Yes because guys hold other guys hands in movies to save them all the fucking time.
I’m sure he realizes she’s a big girl after seeing her beat 4 guys up
Actually it was only 2 guys. Still impressive though.
And to be fair, she was kind of acting like a child in that scene.
Elaborate please.
I meant if she was having more trouble running with her hand being held. Throughout the movie, Finn and Rey ran at about the same pace as each other and in that scene specifically she was dragging behind a little so I don’t see the issue with him holding on a little longer.
It was unnecessary to hold her hand for that long when she’s capable of running herself. That’s the issue.
Finn also said that was his First battle when he was trying to get Rey to run away with him.
JediExile said:
My point is brainwashing doesn’t break in a day.
In certain cases it does. Most notably in people who were wanna be Satanists who witnessed an actual sacrifice and were overwherlemed by it
I just Googled “Finn” to find out his age and guess what I found: that Stormtrooper that Poe (the man Finn saved from certain death) killed was actually another of Finn’s squadmates and friends. Another detail The Force Awakens decided to omit from the actual movie and shove in another book, but I digress.
Did you not notice the significance of this person wiping their blood on Finn’s helmet and then Finn becoming panicked right after the death of this trooper? Not everything needs to explicitly stated for the audience.
I have no idea how old Finn is, but I’m going to assume he’s around 23-25. So for 23-25 years he’s slept, ate, drank, trained, and worked for the First Order. His friends were his squad mates. He was brainwashed by the First Order and watched by them for 23-25 years. Then one day he’s ordered to execute civilians and he betrays them for the guy who shot his friend.
Maybe aside from that one trooper or some other trooper/s somewhere else he deems them all as evil. Also he doesn’t know that Finn killed his friend.
Yes, but regardless of what the audience does know running after someone, beating them, and shocking them is generally not nice. He didn’t deserve that because Rey didn’t know what Finn had gone through or where he got the jacket. She assumed he stole it and proceeded to get violent.
Well she did start after him but Finn running made him look look guilty and how exactly could she even anticipate that this guy was a helped the jacket’s owner escape from a Star Destroyer via TIE Fighter and then the owner presumably died in the escape?
Kind of odd he didn’t have any protection himself. I’d assume scavenging is an extremely competitive job, especially when your entire wellbeing pretty much depends on your hauls.
He probably didn’t have anything of the non lethal variety.
If BB-8 hadn’t been there, Rey wouldn’t have gone after Finn and she wouldn’t be marked. You can run the blame right back to the little round guy. If she was marked by association, then that’s more her fault and BB-8’s fault than Finn’s.
BB-8 could never do anything wrong. Thinking otherwise is blasphemous
Also how can it be Rey’s fault if she knows nothing about BB-8’s mission or Finn being a defecting Storm Trooper? That’s really unfair.
Finn doesn’t even deserve a sarcastic remark for her being marked because it’s not his fault at all.
On the wide spectrum of ways Rey could have reacted a sarcastic remark is one of the more tame options she could have chosen.
If I’m a wanted man and someone makes the conscious choice to chase after me with a stick, beat me to the ground, question me about a jacket, then talk to me about the Resistance I’m a part of that’s enemies with the First Order, I’m not responsible for getting that person into trouble.
And how exactly would the thugs that alerted the First Order know about them speaking about The Resistance?
“what if” is not the point. If someone is about to kill you, you don’t stand around and ponder how you should treat the person who is unaware of the present danger. You take action. He noticed the Stormtroopers nearby and got the fuck out of there. There was no other chance to warn Rey.
I’m not saying what he did was wrong (at least in the first case) but he should have let go after he knew of the danger. Also he could have definitely said “RUN” when he her the TIEs especially since he knew she wasn’t fond of having her hand taken like some damsel or a child.
I count two.
If she thought she would be able to run better without her hand being held, fair enough
“I know how to run without you holding my hand!”
Fair enough, but there was no moment before Han confronted him about his lie that even suggested he was bothered by it. He actually seemed to be enjoying pretending to be a Resistance fighter before.
Actually when they come into contact with Han and Rey says he’s with the Resistance he looks remorseful when Han takes a glare at him. Furthermore we can surmise that Finn might have told Rey that he defected from the First Order before that problem with the Falcon started which interrupted him.
I kind of realized something about Starkiller base the other day too. I realized that I don’t think I (or many other people) would have disliked the repeated death star thing as much had it not already been rehashed in Jedi. Like if Jedi didn’t have the death star plot and instead focused on like storming the Imperial Capitol or something, then the idea that the first order built their own, bigger, better version of the death star would not have been so annoying. It would have actually been kind of cool. The only reason it was not well recieved (for me at least) was because it was the THIRD time the planet sized superweapon thing had been done in this series. It would have made sense that they spent the last 40 odd years redesigning and perfecting the design into a greater threat.
It would have made more sense in universe seeing as how the First Order would have most likely seen the destruction of the 1st Death Star as a fluke. Out of universe I think people would have accepted it more if:
Would have been even cooler if it DIDN’T get destroyed at the end of the film, so it could be a threat throughout the trilogy.
Funny thing is is that I thought right when Poe was going to destroy whatever SKB’s weakness was that there would be a special kind of shielding around it and they would lose the battle and the film would end on a more bitter note.
Hows this… Still needs some work.
Wow. Great work.
JediExile said:
Once again, the First Order should train their soldiers for this. They are an evil organization, they are going to kill innocents. For this to come as a surprise to Finn is a little odd, it should be normalized to him. It makes no sense for Finn to suddenly get cold feet like he did. I’d like to make a correction though, he didn’t get cold feet when executing the villagers. You see him start to have issues when a random Stormtrooper dies and reaches for him. Which is even more weird in my opinion. Finn doesn’t even have a name at this point, is he unaware that he’s just another expendable soldier? Did the First Order not prepare him for people on his side dying?
Even if they trained Finn to be an evil prick it probably wouldn’t have done much good in the long run. Though if they had his turn would have probably been over the course of the film. But then again we’re just speculating; for all we know they could have trained him to kill civilians and Finn being who he is was revolted by the idea.
“Thief” may be understating the situation. BB-8 saw Poe’s X-Wing explode, he knew that his master was probably either dead, captured, or miraculously escaped. Now here’s this random dude coming along wearing your master’s jacket. The first thought that would come to mind isn’t “steal”, it’s “murder”
“What’s your hurry thief?”- Rey
I’m not saying she was totally in the wrong here, but approaching him to talk to him before beating him might have worked too. What I meant by “got in his way” was chasing him down and beating him. He did nothing to deserve that.
That’s only because we know Finn didn’t do anything wrong. If he had stolen Poe’s jacket (and presumably killed Poe) he would have deserved that and more.
Also, being a scavenger and saving a droid comes off as very weird to me. What’s a little more odd is Teedo actually let her take the droid, something which would have been worth a lot of meals.
Teedo would have had his ass handed to him had he tried to engage Rey in combat. He’s about 2…maybe 3 feet tall and Rey had her staff on her.
No, her complaint wasn’t justified. Finn did nothing to make her a target. She chased after him, attacked him, and then stood around to talk to him. Once again, the droid deserves the blame for not warning her he was on a dangerous mission.
It was certainly by association that she was marked. Also even if BB-8 hadn’t been there Kylo Ren had deduced that FN-2187 was the one who defected so it wouldn’t have mattered.
Also all she said was “Thanks for that” and doesn’t bring up he fact she was marked for death unjustly for the rest of the film.
All blame lies on the droid.
Half and half
Yes, he could have said run and hoped she’d react fast enough to not be blown to bits in both situations. “What if” isn’t the point though, he saved her life twice while she was clearly unaware of the danger she was in for both situations. He was protecting her and holding her hand wasn’t hurting her so there’s no reason to yell at the person trying to save you.
It should be the point because he had two chances to alert her to danger otherwise. Not saying him taking her hand was a bad thing inherently but there were alternatives. And holding her hand for the length of time he did the first time was borderline insulting even though his intentions were pure. It’s almost as if he didn’t think she was capable of running without his assistance.
My point on his feelings about him lying is a small one anyways, but even if his reason for lying to her was because he was ashamed of the First Order there’s no reason for him to actually feel bad about lying to her. It’s not like he told her something outrageous like “Ah yes Kylo Ren killed your father, From a Certain Point of View!”
He just met her and their chemistry on screen was really weak.
Some people don’t like lying. It’s as simple as that. Even smaller lies about nonessential things can irk some people. I’m not entirely sure why simple decency is being called into question
He just met her and their chemistry on screen was really weak.
I disagree but you’re entitled to your opinion.
No that doesn’t put any debate to rest because this is exactly what I should be finding out as I watch The Force Awakens, not when I go to Google information about the novelization.
The “By the grace of your training I will not be seduced” line should have been sufficient enough. I’m projecting here but I knew from that line that he knew Vader was seduced by the enemy because Vader faltered when put into contact with a family member just like the endeavor that Kylo would soon undertake.
JediExile said:
This isn’t an issue with Finn being a good person or not. It’s an issue with the First Order. Imagine you’re a rising evil Empire. Now you’re abducting babies and preparing them to fight for you. You want to do evil things because you’re evil so you want your soldiers to carry out those evil things. You’d obviously prepare them for combat, but you’d also prepare them for following orders like “kill these innocent people” or “steal candy from this child”. If they fail to follow out those orders, reprogram them (the First Order is able to do that after all, they say it in the movie) or kill them and move on. If Finn is just a good guy, how did he even get through training? Do they not prepare their evil soldiers to be evil?
I’m sure there would be many more defectors had they been taught at a young age that slaughtering an entire village is something that they’d be required to do from time to time.
Also the way that Finn puts up his blaster when the order to kill the villagers is given suggests he didn’t see it coming.
Yeah except he didn’t do anything. She attacked him and got in his way,
Yeah, because she thought he was a thief. She also scolds Teedo about him trying to steal BB-8 and claims he doesn’t have respect for anybody. She has an inherent sense of justice. I see nothing wrong with that. Also how did she get in his way?
she would have been “marked for death” anyways if she was found with that droid
True but that’s now how it went down thus her complaint was justified. Also it wasn’t even her who said she was marked it was Finn.
If Finn wasn’t there and didn’t drag her away from those First Order troops, (guy saves your life and the first thing that comes to mind is to complain about him dragging your ass from danger, good shit Rey) she would have been killed. If Finn didn’t drag her away AGAIN when the TIE Fighters were doing runs on the Junkyard, (again she complains about her hand being held, I just don’t understand Rey) she would have been blown to pieces. If there’s anyone to actually blame for putting Rey in danger, it’s BB-8.
Couldn’t Finn just say run? Also the first time he grabbed her he held on for a time in which the hand holding wouldn’t suit any of them.
The line: “I know how to run without you holding my hand!” fits the situation perfectly.
The second time he grabbed her hand he could have said/yelled “run” too but he didn’t.
Rey just beat Finn to a pulp and BB-8 was clearly not happy with him for having Poe’s jacket. The last thing I’d want to tell a girl that seems to have respect for Resistance and a droid whose master was just supposedly killed by the First Order is “I’m a Stormtrooper, please help me”. Once again, they just met. Caring about telling a little white lie to someone you don’t even know isn’t something to care about.
He didn’t tell her because he was ashamed of The First Order as he said in his speech to her when he was trying to leave the fight. Being ashamed of being associated with such a group is a sign of someone being good or at least changing into a good person.
one word isn’t enough to convince me of Kylo’s opinion on Vader. If he actually does believe Vader was seduced by the light, then why bother asking his mask for help when Kylo feels pulled by the light? If he wants to idolize Vader for his achievements as a Sith Lord, fair game. But literally asking him for help in THAT situation seems incredibly silly.
And how would Kylo even form the opinion that Vader was seduced by the light? He didn’t know Vader and we don’t even know how he began to worship him. We do know that Luke trained him and we can assume that Luke probably told him about his grandfather, but that doesn’t explain how Kylo came to the conclusion that Vader turning to the light was bad. Kylo didn’t know Vader and Luke was the only one to hear his final words when he died. What other living person could even have a valid opinion on Vader aside from Luke?
Hopefully this puts this debate to rest:
“Kylo Ren, I watched the Galactic Empire rise, and then fall. The gullible prattle on about the triumph of truth and justice, of individualism and free will. As if such things were solid and real instead of simple subjective judgments. The historians have it all wrong. It was neither poor strategy nor arrogance that brought down the Empire. You know too well what did.” Ren nodded once. “Sentiment.” “Yes." “Such a simple thing. Such a foolish error of judgment. A momentary lapse in an otherwise exemplary life.” “Had Lord Vader not succumbed to emotion at the crucial moment—had the father killed the son—the Empire would have prevailed.” "And there would be no threat of Skywalker’s return today.” “I am immune to the light,” Ren assured him confidently. “By the grace of your training, I will not be seduced.”
^ from the TFA novelization.
Didn’t like The Force Awakens at all.
Finn was a ridiculous character. Raised from birth as a Stormtrooper, “programmed” to be obedient (General Hux’s words), and he absolutely loses it on his first mission. I wouldn’t have a problem with this if he wasn’t programmed from birth and the First Order recruited like the Empire did, but it is an issue and leads to his character feeling forced. I would have greatly preferred if Finn slowly broke his brainwashing over the course of the movie instead of at the beginning. It would have led to a much more believable character.
No matter how much you try to brainwash certain people with poisonous ideologies some will still remain decent and Finn is such a person. Whether it be from Satanic Cults or the Nazis there have been multiple people throughout history that have seen the side they were fighting/siding with for what they really are and decided to split from them.
Also not everyone needs multiple examples over long stretches of time to see the truth about the people they’re fighting for; some people just need one. A’la some Satanists who have seen animals/humans being sacrificed and it was too much for them to handle.
but she acts like an ass to Finn when she meets him
Yes because everyone would be ecstatic that they’re marked for death by the First Order when it’s another’s fault.
Why does Finn even care that he lied to her?
For the same reason he defected and it’s bec…ause he’s a good person. I don’t understand how such a simple concept is so jarring to you.
Kylo Ren is just confusing to me. He worships Vader, a Sith Lord who turned to the light. Not only that, he prays(?) to Vader’s helmet (how did he get that?) to help him stay on the dark side? Is the First Order unaware of Vader turning back to the light and redeeming himself? Kylo was a student of Luke right, shouldn’t he know this too? Does the First Order not acknowledge this happened?
"By the grace of your training I will not be seduced" - Kylo Ren
He knows Vader was redeemed but believes he was seduced by the enemy.