JoyOfEditing

G&G-Fan said:

Could I see your edit of the ANH duel?

I could go down a slippery slope of asking to see every one, so I’ll just limit myself to the one I’m most interested in.

I cut it. . . Except for the hangar portion. . . Nothing of consequence (To the plot of the SAGA) happens in the initial scene, so I just use the end of the duel framed as if Ben is holding Vader off so Luke can escape. It’s a pretty common action trope to lose track of one of the secondary characters, and just as our heroes are about to get on the chopper the poor secondary character emerges from the woods only to be dragged back in by the monster as the rest of our heroes watch in horror.

I’m still fine tuning that whole sequence, but when I get it done, I’ll PM you a link. If you’d like to see my prequelized version of the Empire Duel, that’s ready to go if you’re interested.

That guy with no name said:

JoyOfEditing said:

Hal 9000 said:

To keep things involving the effort to revise the prequel trilogy edits one more time and include an alternate set of them to be more ‘maximalist’ and retain the original titles mostly within this one thread, I wanted to ask:

Are there any higher quality sources for the deleted scenes? Currently I have AI upscales that are a few years old. Nothing wrong with them, but I don’t know if there is anything better out there.

Also, I could still use an AI line to replace 3PO’s line in ROTS while taking off for Mustafar, “I think I’m beginning to get the hang of this flying business, hmm.”

Everything else I think I can get through myself, at a snail’s pace.

If you wanna try a different way to fix the goofy Threepio line, you can actually retime the whole scene to make it feel like Padme rushed off to Mustafar, which allows you to cut the line entirely: https://drive.google.com/file/d/14-Rc2iWT4QsNdRuAMAW0qER5ke_28Uuw/view?usp=drive_link

If it means anything. I can’t even tell what was changed, Seems normal to me? So congrats it works.

I cut the shot of Obi-Wan hiding in Harry Potter’s closet, and massively trimmed the two-shot of Padme and Threepio right before take off to get rid of the weird line that Hal was referring to. The precise way that I trimmed it hides the cut in the music track, so you don’t feel like anything is missing.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

I think that would probably work the best. Although it does feel like there is a missing 3PO line as they go up the ramp? Or is that how the original movie goes? I can’t remember.

His “Oh dear” could be shifted back a little bit to be at the same time that he starts flailing his arms around and I think it would feel more organic.

That’s the original. It’s a little awkward, but in fairness it matches his lines-to-arm-flailing-ratio in A New Hope, lol!

Hal 9000 said:

To keep things involving the effort to revise the prequel trilogy edits one more time and include an alternate set of them to be more ‘maximalist’ and retain the original titles mostly within this one thread, I wanted to ask:

Are there any higher quality sources for the deleted scenes? Currently I have AI upscales that are a few years old. Nothing wrong with them, but I don’t know if there is anything better out there.

Also, I could still use an AI line to replace 3PO’s line in ROTS while taking off for Mustafar, “I think I’m beginning to get the hang of this flying business, hmm.”

Everything else I think I can get through myself, at a snail’s pace.

If you wanna try a different way to fix the goofy Threepio line, you can actually retime the whole scene to make it feel like Padme rushed off to Mustafar, which allows you to cut the line entirely: https://drive.google.com/file/d/14-Rc2iWT4QsNdRuAMAW0qER5ke_28Uuw/view?usp=drive_link

G&G-Fan said:

JoyOfEditing said:

Basically, in the Gospels, Jesus’ disciples think he is going to violently overthrow the oppressive Roman Empire and lead them to freedom. Instead, Jesus allows himself to be sacrificially killed in order to restore Mankind’s relationship with God, Nature, and other Human Beings by defeating Sin, Death, and Evil on the cross. In STAR WARS, the Jedi in the Prequels and the Rebel Alliance in the OT try to defeat evil politically and through warfare, but the real victory comes when Luke and Anakin both sacrifice themselves to defeat the Emperor.

Of course Star Wars is a myth, and therefore falls under very supernatural logic. I’m very much in agreement that Star Wars needs to be treated more like a myth then pure sci-fi.

There are plenty of times in the Bible where good things happen violently. There’s more violence in the Bible then most stories. The Hebrew God is very violent, and it’s always portrayed as righteous.
Jesus’ sacrifice is entirely about giving people who have sinned a path to heaven, nothing to do with the fall of the Roman Empire.
The two demon space Nazis didn’t stop being demon space Nazis because Luke preached love. He tries with Vader and fails.
Christian mythology isn’t the only one Star Wars is based on. There’s also lots of classical mythology infused into it. And the Greek and Roman gods were anything but pacifists. Heracles (the demigod Son of Zeus, the King of the Gods) proved himself as a hero through violent trials.
I’d even argue Star Wars’ equivalent to demigods (the Skywalkers) harkens a lot more to Heracles then Jesus, with the exception of the Chosen One thing.

The OT is still about restoring man and defeating sin (though replace relationship with God with the Force), but it doesn’t wholesale reject violence. And violence can be committed out of loving sacrifice. They’re not mutually exclusive.

Luke wins when he defeats Vader, but refuses to give into the dark side.
The Rebellion ultimate wins when Anakin kills the Emperor. It’s a loving self-sacrifice, but still a violent solution, and it saves the galaxy.

JoyOfEditing said:

Does Luke’s decision to lay down his weapon make sense? No.

I wasn’t criticizing the story, I was pointing out that Luke made a mistake. Which is good writing, it’s consistent with the portrayal of his character.

It wasn’t smart of him to let his guard down in front of the Emperor. If it wasn’t for what was practically a miracle (a genocidal tyrant deciding to be selfless for his son), the Rebellion would’ve lost.

JoyOfEditing said:

Neither did his decision not to kill the Ewoks that captured him and Han a few scenes prior.

Because he knew he had to win the Ewoks to his side if they were to beat the Empire. He realized there was a higher purpose for them and gained their trust.
Starting a war with the Ewoks whilst already fighting the Empire would be terrible.

JoyOfEditing said:

Both of those irrational decisions lead to the Force being brought back into balance, whereas Anakin’s rational decision to try to save Padme from death, led him down a dark path.

That was not a rational decision. He made that decision out of power-hunger, a desire to cheat death.
And the way it’s portrayed in the Prequels makes him look like a moron. He trusts a guy who admits to lying to him his whole life based on some legend that he has no evidence of.
Meanwhile, when Vader tried to convert Luke, not only did he actually tell him the truth (that he can sense through the Force is true), but Luke actually has reason to believe Vader will hold up his end of the deal.

The way to solve this, I think, is to portray it as dark side addiction more broadly (like Luke), and emphasize that the Sith have always been searching for the secret to cheat death.
Anakin would find ancient Sith holocrons and scrolls describing their goal of immortality (for both himself and his loved ones). Intrigued, he starts experimenting with the dark side, and becomes addicted to it.
He knows the dark side is the only path to what he wants, it’s about subverting nature, while the light side is about respecting it (being a Force ghost isn’t what they want, as they “release” themselves, essentially becoming pure agents of the Force).
Also, Palpatine would outright say, “I want the power as much as you do. Join me and we’ll find it together.”

There several parallels to Frankenstein and the other Gothic monsters, as well as Doctor Faustus. The dark side is the Devil’s work.
Anakin is both Victor Frankenstein and his Creature: in becoming Darth Vader, he becomes his own monster out of his selfish ambition to cheat death. And like Victor, its done out of ego and greed.
Even Vader’s “If you only knew the power of the dark side!” line is a parallel to the Invisible Man’s power-hungry rant to Flora from the 1933 classic.

JoyOfEditing said:

In this way Obi-Wan’s destruction of Darth Maul wasn’t wrong, but it didn’t lead to the Force being brought back into balance, rather it continued the cycle of violence.

It didn’t bring balance to the Force because Maul wasn’t behind everything, Palpatine was.
It also didn’t continue anything. There’s 10 years of peace after. It actually put a setback in Sidious’ plans, only remedied because a Jedi with Separatist sentiments decided to become evil.

JoyOfEditing said:

The Biblical/Christian narrative logic is that the restoration of loving relationships between God, Man, and Nature, and the destruction of violent cycles doesn’t come through victory in battle or politics, but through loving sacrifice. That is why the “victory” in Lord of the Rings comes through Frodo’s sacrifice, not Aragorn’s victory in battle.

Frodo beats Sauron because he pushes Gollum off a cliff. Nobody could resist the strength of the ring that close to the volcano. Gollum basically accidentally saved Middle Earth.

And Aragon’s violent solution was necessary, otherwise Sauron’s minions would’ve murdered Frodo and Sam the second they entered Mordor. Just like the events of ROTJ couldn’t have happened without the Battle of Yavin or Endor.

Aragorn was going into to battle knowing he could potentially die. He was, for all intents and purposes, lovingly sacrificing himself. He was fighting for love of the people of Middle Earth, for Frodo, not out of hatred for Sauron. It’s honorable.

I think we’re in violent agreement on most things, haha! At least as far as STAR WARS and LotR goes. Your gloss of LotR is absolutely correct. I am merely saying that the sacrificial act of Frodo taking the Ring to Mount Doom was the focus of the reason good triumphed, not the all inclusive reason (Gollum tripping is the final reason that the ring was physically destroyed, but to Frodo’s credit he did get it 99.9% of the way there). The same goes for STAR WARS, Luke and Anakin’s sacrifice is the focus, not the all-inclusive reason that the Empire falls (I mean c’mon Lando and Wedge did their part!). When I edit, I try to shape the narrative around the primary focus and then align all the secondary and tertiary ideas to the main thread. Part of what makes STAR WARS so rich is how George weaves all sorts of myths and references together, which you did a great job laying out. And while George references a ridiculous number of mythologies ala Joseph Campbell, the core logic for the narrative structure is distinctly Christian, so I find it helpful to use that “Christian Scaffolding” to keep the plot and the characters consistent and cohesive, which is exactly what Tolkien did to tie together Gollum/Aragorn/Frodo at the end of LotR.

One of the things I didn’t mention is that I massively overhauled Palpatine and Anakin’s relationship across all 6 films, to make the “main thread” more clear and consistent. It’ll take way too long for me to go through all those changes here, but I look forward to seeing what you think once I finish that episode of the YouTube Show. I think a lot more of what I’m going for will make sense once you have that key change in mind.

From an academic standpoint, we’re gonna disagree on Jesus, lol! But your gloss is the popularly held view (George used a version of Christianity closer to the one I was trying to explain). I have the misfortune of being a Literature Major who accidently minored in Theology (who in their right mind takes a course called “Apocalyptic Literature in Anglo-Saxon England”?), and I would argue that “Going to Heaven” was not something a 1st century follower of Jesus would have been terribly concerned about. His initial followers were much more concerned with the Kingdom of God coming to Earth (where Rome is) as it is in Heaven, but I don’t wanna sidetrack this thread, haha! So if you wanna talk more 1st Century Theology PM me. 😃

potty meister said:
I love this explanation so much

Oh good! I’m glad that made sense. If you want to know why all the Disney STAR WARS stuff hits different, that is the reason why. Disney abandoned the spiritual narrative framework George was using to link the original six films together, probably because they never realized it was there, haha!

G&G-Fan said:

JoyOfEditing said:

Goodness Gracious, that’s a lot of questions, lol! I’ll do my best to address them all, but if I miss one gimme a shout.

My apologies. I get carried away sometimes.

JoyOfEditing said:

1. How did you bring the Prequel Duels into alignment with the Duels in the OT? - There’s two pronged answer to that. On the technical side the OT Duels are cut on the wrong frames which makes them feel slow. If you use the same cutting techniques that Ben Burtt used in the Prequels, they can hit with the same speed/force (except the famous SC38, but I came up with an unorthodox way to fix that problem).

On the other hand, the Prequel Duels suffer from sequencing issues (that’s why they feel “overstimulating and hollow” as you correctly pointed out), but if you resequence them to match the sequencing of the OT Duels, they also line up nicely. That’s exactly what I did to make the Grievous Duel more engaging.

I’m glad. I’m quite interested in seeing the results.

For the record, I’m not of the opinion that the OT duels are too slow, tho I find the ANH one a little clunky. I think the Vader and Luke duels are perfect the way they are, but I’m still interested in seeing your versions.

JoyOfEditing said:

2. How did you address the “power levels” of the duelists across the SAGA? - I made a single story decision, and then recut all the duels to serve that decision. Basically, there’s a story problem when it comes to the duels. The visual symbolism is telling one story, and the dialogue is telling another. The dialogue says that Luke must train hard enough to tear down Darth Vader in a death match, whereas the visuals say he must stay his hand to break the cycle of violence.

Watch the Visuals: Maul cut’s down Qui-Gon, so Obi-Wan retaliates by cutting Maul in Half. Dooku cuts off Anakin’s arm, so Anakin cuts off his hands and kills him. Obi-Wan de-limbs Anakin, so Anakin kills Obi-Wan out of revenge. Vader cuts off Luke’s hand, so Luke cuts off Vader’s hand, BUT!!! in that moment Luke stops and looks at his own hand. The reason he does that is because he finally understood the meaning of his vision in the Cave of Evil. If he cuts off Vader’s head, he becomes Darth Vader, and the cycle of violence and revenge continues. That is why Luke throws away his lightsaber and says he’s a Jedi like his father before him. The Jedi in the Prequels had become like the Sith, engaged in the never-ending cycle of revenge. That circle must be broken for balance to return to the Force. Obi-Wan’s sacrifice in A New Hope is actually his most important lesson to Luke. He is showing Luke the way to bring balance: lower your guard and sacrifice yourself. If you recut the OT so that Obi-Wan and Yoda tell Luke he must “face” Vader but cut all mentions of them telling Luke to kill him, the whole SAGA suddenly makes thematic sense.

But the dialogue isn’t ever explicitly telling Luke to kill Vader.
While the trilogy builds up to Luke being skilled enough to fight Vader, it’s not saying he should murder his father in rage.
It’s telling him to face and defeat him, but warning him that he might have to kill him out of duty, if he has to. Whatever it takes to render him a non-threat to the galaxy’s freedom.

Luke is Vader’s blood, thus he’s their only hope of defeating him (besides Leia, but she hasn’t even started her training yet).

The Jedi aren’t counting on Vader being conflicted (as is what happens), nor do they want Luke to give into a dark side power boost, so even sending Luke to fight Vader is risky, because normally, in the ROTJ-era, they’re equals in terms of power and skill (which is essentially peak Force-user).
But again, Luke’s their best chance. As such, he needs to go in with full conviction.

Obi-Wan and Yoda don’t believe there’s any good in Vader. Of course they don’t, Vader is a cold-blooded monster, at this point.
What they didn’t know is that he still had a genuine soft spot for his son, beyond wanting him for power.
But even so, Anakin doesn’t resurface until after two movies of psychologically and physically abusing his son to try and make him his too. Vader even sadistically gloats about turning his sister after killing him if he refuses, and watches him get excruciatingly electrocuted for over a minute.

Vader’s stance is “Join me or die” (at least, that’s what he says, and thus, it must be accounted for). Luke has to be comfortable with fighting for his life and the freedom of the galaxy.
Luke can’t kill him out of revenge (the dark side, thus going down the path of an addiction to this dark magic that’s incredibly hard to let go of), but must be willing to out of duty, compassion for the people of the galaxy (the light side), if he must.

Vader and the Emperor are space Nazis. Fascists’ endgame is always violence. If a supernaturally powerful space Nazi is trying to kill you because you won’t join him, you can’t just let him. Otherwise, you’ve let fascism win. This is why Anakin killing Palpatine out of love for his son is framed as heroic.

And while Luke makes the right choice to not give into revenge, he still makes a mistake in completely letting his guard down, he leaving himself vulnerable to the Emperor’s lightning, which is exactly what Yoda and Obi-Wan warned him about. While this is remedied by the return of Anakin, that wasn’t the smartest thing to do.

Obi-Wan surrendered to Vader because he knows he can’t beat him, and Luke was gonna rush up to help him. The galaxy’s hope would’ve gotten himself killed too soon. Ben surrendered to teach Luke to let go and protect him and his friends, so they could escape.

Obi-Wan killing Maul isn’t wrong. He did it in self-defense. He was in a life-and-death situation and did his duty. There is no negative consequence to this kill, nor does Obi-Wan have any arc about revenge.

I hear ya, but while ol’ Ben doesn’t technically tell Luke to go kill his daddy, when Luke tells Obi-Wan he “Can’t kill his own father,” Ben’s responds, “Then the Emperor has already won.” To me that implies that Obi-Wan is telling Luke that he has to kill Vader.

To your main point on the logic of the duels. I can see how that would work, but I don’t think that was the specific logic Lucas was going for. I think STAR WARS’ narrative (like Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter) relies on Religious Logic, specifically Christian Logic, to tell it’s story. A lot of stories in the Western Canon use Christian Logic to shape their narratives even if the stories themselves are not “Christian” per se.

Before I explain STAR WARS’ Christian Narrative Logic, lemme be clear that I’m not trying to tell you what you should or shouldn’t believe, lol! I agree with ol’ George that religious questions are important to ponder, but that’s not what I’m trying to do here. I’m just trying to show you how religious logic affects a story’s narrative structure.

Basically, in the Gospels, Jesus’ disciples think he is going to violently overthrow the oppressive Roman Empire and lead them to freedom. Instead, Jesus allows himself to be sacrificially killed in order to restore Mankind’s relationship with God, Nature, and other Human Beings by defeating Sin, Death, and Evil on the cross. In STAR WARS, the Jedi in the Prequels and the Rebel Alliance in the OT try to defeat evil politically and through warfare, but the real victory comes when Luke and Anakin both sacrifice themselves to defeat the Emperor. Does Luke’s decision to lay down his weapon make sense? No. Neither did his decision not to kill the Ewoks that captured him and Han a few scenes prior. Both of those irrational decisions lead to the Force being brought back into balance, whereas Anakin’s rational decision to try to save Padme from death, led him down a dark path. In this way Obi-Wan’s destruction of Darth Maul wasn’t wrong, but it didn’t lead to the Force being brought back into balance, rather it continued the cycle of violence. The Biblical/Christian narrative logic is that the restoration of loving relationships between God, Man, and Nature, and the destruction of violent cycles doesn’t come through victory in battle or politics, but through loving sacrifice. That is why the “victory” in Lord of the Rings comes through Frodo’s sacrifice, not Aragorn’s victory in battle.

Essentially, in my recut I tried to streamline the Religious Narrative Logic that I think George was aiming for. That’s not the only way to cut the STAR WARS SAGA, but I think it’s one of the best ways to stay as true as possible to George’s original vision. Hope that makes sense. 😉

arabian said:

But the I hate sand line is important. It’s not about sand itself, it’s about him hating Tatooine, hating that he was a slave, that his mother–as far as he knows, is still a slave. The line has such a deeper meaning.

I hear ya, and I think that was George’s original intention for the scene. However, from an editing standpoint, I think Episode II really benefits from “scene-focus-streamlining”, and that means reworking the “Sand Scene” to only focus on Anakin and Padme’s romance.

Anakin’s hatred of Tatooine, slavery, and his mother’s predicament, are handled better in other sequences, like Anakin’s conversation with Watto, and the scenes at the Lars Homestead. Basically, I completely agree with you in principle. I would just execute the edit differently to achieve the same goal. 😉

G&G-Fan said:

Since you’re editing the films for better cohesion, were the Prequel duels toned down to be more like the OT duels? And/or were the OT duels edited?

First, I prefer the style of the Vader/Luke duels. Their fighting feels more powerful, it has more weight and tension. I find the Prequel ones often overstimulating and hollow.

Second, Darth Vader, Obi-Wan, and eventually Luke Skywalker are (and should be) incredibly powerful Force users and skilled dualists.
They were supposed to be in the 70s/80s, and are again, canonically.
Vader and Ben in ANH should be beyond their prior selves, hence their boasts to each other. The script even describes their battle as “masterful”, “powerful”, even “lightning”.

Vader is the terrifying, powerful villain of the trilogy, the Empire’s ultimate enforcer who slayed the Jedi. The pathos relies on viewing him as imposing.
Vader is 80% as powerful as the Emperor in Lucas-Canon and Legends, and even more powerful then the Emperor in Disney-Canon (he has contingencies to ensure Vader’s loyalty).
Originally lightsabers were meant to be heavy, so Vader fighting with just one hand for part of the ESB duel showed great of a warrior he is.
Vader should be more powerful as a cyborg, not less. Also, Grievous proves cybernetics shouldn’t hamper lightsaber skills.

Obi-Wan is the enlightened, experienced mentor figure Luke, and thus the audience, looks up to and aspires to be. He’s a Master Jedi Knight, a relic of that golden age, and his skills should reflect that. Again, the pathos relies on it.
Ben canonically easily kills Maul a few years before ANH. Also, Dooku and Yoda prove old age shouldn’t hamper lightsaber skills.

This is why it’s impactful when Vader kills Luke’s mentor in-front of him. The whole trilogy builds to Luke being able to fight and beat him.
Luke’s journey is becoming a complete Jedi Knight, just as great of a Jedi as the one’s of old, as Ben. Part of that is his saber skills and Force power. It’s even stressed he has to be that, in order to face the mighty Vader. Reinforcing Vader > the Prequel duelists; the only one who can beat him is his son, his own blood.
Luke should be incredibly powerful and skilled, not lesser then the Prequel dualists, both in ESB and especially ROTJ. Vader even says his skills are "complete” in ROTJ, and in ESB, says they’re “most impressive”.
While Vader is mostly just toying with Luke in ESB, the power disparity isn’t as much as ppl think (Jedi training didn’t used to take decades). And Luke contending with Vader in ROTJ should be a mighty feat. He wins he’s become Vader’s equal in power and skill, but Vader is conflicted and Luke gets a dark side boost at the end.

Basically, the OT films were fundamentally built so Vader, Ben, and Luke are great warriors, so they shouldn’t be undermined by the Prequels.

Also, I hope none of Darth Vader’s scenes were cut from your version of ESB. That’d be blasphemy (joking… or am I).

JoyOfEditing said:

After a long battle with YouTube’s Copyright Goblins, the next two episodes are now live!

They both cover the recut of the Utapau Duel, and I hope y’all enjoy them!

Part 1: https://youtu.be/foXKzbzaaXc

Part 2: https://youtu.be/DN6BpdJQJ-g

Good videos.

One thing though, when you talk about how Grievous shouldn’t feel pain: first, droids feel pain in Star Wars. Multiple times. For example, 3PO in ESB, when Chewie doesn’t crouch low enough entering the Falcon in the escape from Bespin.
Second, so do cyborgs. The very first thing we see when Luke gets his cyborg hand is testing pain receptors. Vader yells in pain when his hand gets cut off.

Anybody with CIPA will tell you, pain is very important. You want to know what’s happening with your own body (recommend the House MD episode “Insensitive”, if you want to know how ppl who can’t feel pain live).

Star Wars droids/cyborgs are advanced enough to have artificial pain receptors. And therefore it makes sense that they should. You don’t want to accidentally put your hand on a stove for a half-hour without even noticing.

Goodness Gracious, that’s a lot of questions, lol! I’ll do my best to address them all, but if I miss one gimme a shout.

1. How did you bring the Prequel Duels into alignment with the Duels in the OT? - There’s two pronged answer to that. On the technical side the OT Duels are cut on the wrong frames which makes them feel slow. If you use the same cutting techniques that Ben Burtt used in the Prequels, they can hit with the same speed/force (except the famous SC38, but I came up with an unorthodox way to fix that problem).

On the other hand, the Prequel Duels suffer from sequencing issues (that’s why they feel “overstimulating and hollow” as you correctly pointed out), but if you resequence them to match the sequencing of the OT Duels, they also line up nicely. That’s exactly what I did to make the Grievous Duel more engaging.

2. How did you address the “power levels” of the duelists across the SAGA? - I made a single story decision, and then recut all the duels to serve that decision. Basically, there’s a story problem when it comes to the duels. The visual symbolism is telling one story, and the dialogue is telling another. The dialogue says that Luke must train hard enough to tear down Darth Vader in a death match, whereas the visuals say he must stay his hand to break the cycle of violence.

Watch the Visuals: Maul cuts down Qui-Gon, so Obi-Wan retaliates by cutting Maul in Half. Dooku cuts off Anakin’s arm, so Anakin cuts off his hands and kills him. Obi-Wan de-limbs Anakin, so Anakin kills Obi-Wan out of revenge. Vader cuts off Luke’s hand, so Luke cuts off Vader’s hand, BUT!!! in that moment Luke stops and looks at his own hand. The reason he does that is because he finally understood the meaning of his vision in the Cave of Evil. If he cuts off Vader’s head, he becomes Darth Vader, and the cycle of violence and revenge continues. That is why Luke throws away his lightsaber and says he’s a Jedi like his father before him. The Jedi in the Prequels had become like the Sith, engaged in the never-ending cycle of revenge. That circle must be broken for balance to return to the Force. Obi-Wan’s sacrifice in A New Hope is actually his most important lesson to Luke. He is showing Luke the way to bring balance: lower your guard and sacrifice yourself. If you recut the OT so that Obi-Wan and Yoda tell Luke he must “face” Vader but cut all mentions of them telling Luke to kill him, the whole SAGA suddenly makes thematic sense.

3. Did you cut any Vader scenes out of Empire Strikes Back? - Yes. Several. But cutting out those scenes, massively improves the Vader scenes that remain, so you ironically end up with more iconic Vader scenes instead of less. I’m not gonna tell you which Vader scenes I cut here, cause you’ll have to wait for the episode where I address that part of the recut 😉.

4. Grievous can feel pain in his robot arms, why did you goof that up in your recent episode? - First, you’re absolutely right that cyborgs (like Luke Skywalker) can feel pain in their artificial limbs. Second, I cut most of the “Droid Pain” out of my version of the SAGA (Threepio doesn’t bonk his head on Bespin, the Droid Torture Scene has been cut from Return of the Jedi, The Battle Droids don’t scream when they’re killed, ect. . .) My thinking is that Droids can “express” pain as part of their self-preservation programming, but do not “feel pain” the way a human or a cyborg would. When it comes to General Grievous, I’m sure he “feels pain” in his organic bits, but I cannot imagine there would be a tactical advantage to him “feeling pain” in his limbs. In Grievous’ fighting style his “limbs” are used like “tools” (think the Buzz-Saw-Arm-Move). If one arm goes down, the other three need to keep spinning to finish the kill shot. If you’ve ever watched Robot Wars, the robot that generally wins isn’t the one that doesn’t get hit, but rather the one that follows through with it’s own hit as it’s being hit. In my view pain receptors would get in the way of that particular fighting style, so I recut the scene as if Grievous had 4 “weapons”, not 4 “hands”. Does that make sense?

Skybatman said:

cool, it is different for mine, and ur recut version rank is funny imagine showing this without context

Like I said, it’s “blasphemous” LOL!

Skybatman said:

JoyOfEditing said:

Skybatman said:

u made a lot of changes to revenge of the sith is ur least fav of the 6 haha

Return of the Jedi just told me to hold its beer. . .

what is ur sw ranking?

Man, that’s tricky. . . I’ll give it to you in two lists. First the Vanilla Versions (which assume the Despecialized Editions of the OT), and then my Recuts (which will sound blasphemous, lol!). The consistent “tone” I aimed for in all of the recuts was somewhere between the tones of Vanilla IV and V. If you can hit that “tone” across all 6 episodes (Spoiler Alert. . . You can. . .) then it comes down to what sequences I like best.

VANILLA VERSIONS:

1. IV - A New Hope
2. V - The Empire Strikes Back
3. I - The Phantom Menace
4. VI - Return of the Jedi
5. III - Revenge of the Sith
6. II - Attack of the Clones

RECUT VERSIONS:

1. II - Attack of the Clones
2. VI - Return of the Jedi
3. III - Revenge of the Sith
4. I - The Phantom Menace
5. IV - A New Hope
6. V - The Empire Strikes Back

potty meister said:

This is next level stuff! The Utapau duel really works well with how you’ve done it. Way more engaging. Impressive work on Grievous’ death

Cheers! It actually works even better in terms of the full sequence (From Obi-Wan Landing on Utapau to Order 66). If you wanna see that full section PM me, and I’ll shoot you a link. Throughout the process of recutting the Prequels, I was constantly shocked at how close George was to three masterpieces. All the pieces were on the board, just not in the right order.

Skybatman said:

u made a lot of changes to revenge of the sith is ur least fav of the 6 haha

Return of the Jedi just told me to hold its beer. . .

After a long battle with YouTube’s Copyright Goblins, the next two episodes are now live!

They both cover the recut of the Utapau Duel, and I hope y’all enjoy them!

Part 1: https://youtu.be/foXKzbzaaXc

Part 2: https://youtu.be/DN6BpdJQJ-g

Bingowings said:

I would cut from the tonsil tennis right to planet of the oil rigs. The awkward halt to the music has always been the sad trumbone of the scene.

Bro, this comment is poetry. I’ve never heard snogging called tonsil tennis before, and my life has been poorer for it!

To your point, I almost did exactly that, but I think the scene actually works better with halt (or pause) because there’s a melodic rejoin that follows it to finish the musical phrase.

Hear me out. I need you to go grab the shiniest gold pocket watch you can find and say these words as you swing it in front of your face “Semyhr ti yrteop ekil sti.” Once you’re good and hypnotized, imagine a version of Attack of the Clones where Anakin never whines, bickers, or acts immature and where Padme treats Anakin as an equal in age and ability from scene one. Secondly, imagine a version where Anakin and Padme never talk about their relationship other than the Love Pledge scene right before the Arena Battle. The way I recut their relationship is entirely through action. Anakin says “I love you” when he saves Padme from the Bed Bugs, and I recut the Droid Factory so that Ani not Artoo says Padme from the Lava Vat. Padme says “I love you,” when she puts herself in danger so that Anakin can check on his mom, and when she gives Anakin permission to go rescue his boy Obi-Wan. So basically if you just let the tonsils do the talking, the final look from Padme in the “Sand” Scene mixed with the musical pause could read like Padme thinking, “Well I guess we’re doing this. . .” Rather than the awkward halt of the original.

Hal 9000 said:

I do like this change and it seems to be an improvement over what I’ve been able to do. (I’ll remind you that most of the ideas themselves from my Ep2 edit came from predecessors.)

I’d like the raw footage and audio for this one if I could get it!

No prob! I’m rendering something else at the minute, but I’ll kick that out when it’s done. I’m gonna send you a PM to make sure it’s setup correctly for how you want to use it.

JoyOfEditing said:

littlev87 said:

@JoyOfEditing, your new video was already taken down due to copyright.

I know. I’m working on it. . . YouTube really hates John Williams music, but if the fix I’m doing now works, it should be live again late today.

Okay. I think I finally fixed the problem. . . Fingers crossed. . . I’m gonna re-render the new editing episode with part of the audio muted on the final recut, because I think it’s got just a tiny bit too much unaltered RotS footage in one stretch in particular. . . Once the episode goes live, if you or anyone else wants to see the full un-muted scene PM me, and I’ll be happy to send you a link.

G&G-Fan said:

JoyOfEditing said:

Is this the point where I should tell you I cut ESB down to 90 minutes?

How?! That movie has like perfect pacing! Every scene is the perfect length and every scene is important.

Haha!!! I don’t think I can explain “how” without writing you a novel. But the basic gist is that I cut all six films as if they were 6 chapters of 1 BIG film. The genre of George’s STAR WARS films is technically a Spiritual Epic in the mode of a Medieval Romance, so I recut all 6 films to follow the general rules of those two genres using JRR Tolkien’s editing method (because LotR and STAR WARS are the exact same genre and format (1 SAGA split into 6 books/episodes).

When you use the method Tolkien used to edit LotR, you end up with six roughly 90 minute episodes (except for RotS which clocks in at roughly 75 minutes). Ironically, the “pacing” of these dramatic cuts isn’t actually much quicker than the Vanilla Versions, because I streamlined all the themes to focus on the ones that span the whole SAGA. Empire Strikes Back actually has more diversions from the main themes than any of the other 5 films (because according to George, Kershner didn’t understand the Force, and frankly I agree with him).

A basic example would be reworking Yoda’s character. The ol’ frog is WAY different in the Prequels than he is in the OT. Some aspects of his character are better in the Prequels some aspects are better in the OT. What I did was create a composite Yoda, taking the best of both versions so that he’d stay a consistent character across all 6 films. Most folks that re-edit the Prequels aim to align them with the OT as if it’s the Bible. I just fundamentally don’t think that works. Is the Vanilla OT better than the Vanilla Prequels? OH MY GOODNESS YES!!! But my argument is the best version of the “SAGA” is made by creating a “Third Version” of every single character that works best for the SAGA as a whole. Once you create all those new composite characters, then it quickly becomes obvious what scenes need to stay, and which scenes need to go. Does that make any sense? You’ll be able to see how I cut these composite characters in the third episode the YouTube show which should go up later today (if I can finally appease the copyright gods lol).

Jar Jar Bricks said:

The abruptness of how that scene ends without the reversing of the footage has been a pain point for Hal’s edit of AoTC for a while now.

Yeah, that was actually the exact problem I was trying to solve lol! My cuts are VERY different from the Hal 9000 cuts (I always work from scratch from the Vanilla version), but I did end up coming to the same conclusion Hal did a couple times in each film, cause he’s pretty good at this whole editing thing. 😉

G&G-Fan said:

This is pretty great!

I’m quite interested in both your Prequel and OT edits. For the Prequels, I’m interested in how you approached Anakin’s characterization, turn to the dark side, and the scene with Vader in the suit in ROTS (I hope you made it less cheesy).

I’m very interested in your OT changes from a curiosity standpoint. Most people leave those alone, especially ESB.

Is this the point where I should tell you I cut ESB down to 90 minutes?

littlev87 said:

@JoyOfEditing, your new video was already taken down due to copyright.

I know. I’m working on it. . . YouTube really hates John Williams music, but if the fix I’m doing now works, it should be live again late today.

NotTheDri0ds said:

Oh wow yeah, I think I’ve seen a few takes go for dialogue removal on this scene, but the use of reversing the start of the kiss is actually a pretty effective way of portraying the regret over the kiss without the blunt “I shouldn’t have done that”. Surprised how well Portman’s expression works for that in this context.

I’m just surprised nobody noticed how well the ol’ Sea Monster transition worked. . . lol!

yoshif8tures said:

JoyOfEditing said:

yoshif8tures said:

Looks good. Have you done whole film?

. . . I’ve actually recut all six of George’s films lol!

Let’s see them!

I’m not gonna release the full edits publicly, but I am going through all the major changes I made on my YouTube Channel. If there’s any specific change you want you want to see, PM me and I’ll send you the scene or sequence you’re interested in. I’ve essentially finished all of the Prequels, and I should be done with the OT by the summer at the latest.

Here’s a link to the YouTube Channel. This first two episodes are up, and the third one about the Utapau Duel will release later today: https://www.youtube.com/@JoyofEditing

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Interesting, so you reversed the footage of their kiss in order to remove the whole “I shouldn’t have done that” thing from Padme. Very smart. I don’t think a casual viewer would notice whatsoever.

I can’t believe it worked either. . . Usually the eyes are what give reverse shots away, but Natalie’s eyes look totally natural backwards. . . Ironically, the real thing that sells the effect is the smooch sound effect from when they broke away in the vanilla version. Because the sound is different, your brain tells you it’s a new shot.

After editing all six of George’s movies, I found a 1-3 reverse shots in every film, so I just thought I’d add one more to the tradition lol!

I mean if it worked for the Tusken Raiders. . .

aGreatHumanBeing said:

This is the way.

This is the way.