JoyOfEditing

G&G-Fan said:

I don’t agree that ROTJ is the “first Prequel”. It’s different from the other two OT movies, but not any more then ANH and ESB are different, and it’s closer to those then the Prequels. It’s character-focused rather than plot-focused, the plot isn’t as convoluted as the Prequels, it’s methodically yet effectively paced (IMO), the visuals are far more prettier, and the writing is clear and well-articulated where it needs to be and subtle where it needs to be, unlike the Prequels where it’s often either muddy and messy or on-the-nose.

I find it interesting that Hal said that, since he didn’t make an edit of it in the same vein as his Prequels.

I think Hal and I are coming from a technical standpoint. (If I remember that Hal post correctly, he was saying Jedi is his favorite). When you crack open these films as an editor, you see them completely differently than you do when you’re experiencing them as a viewer. From an experiencial standpoint, I 100% agree with you (I like the Theatrical Cut of RotJ WAY better than any of the Prequels because it’s tone much closer to IV and V), but from a technical editing standpoint Jedi is closer to the Prequels than it is to IV and V.

So at least for this nerf herder, I might prefer an edit that doesn’t remove nearly as much (and that’s coming from someone who’s actually okay with excising existing shots/scenes [within reason of course, lol]) as I’d want certain scenes to have both flow and still make enough sense for a first-time viewer - even if it might mean keeping some of the flaws (and that’s where Ady often applies his magical brush at concealing much of that!). Otherwise, I still very much enjoyed this, Joy! Thank you for sharing it and I’m sure Ady will see something in there that works for his vision 😉 I look forward to seeing more of your clips!

And Joy, if you’re at all interested and have plenty of free time (emphasis on “plenty”), I invite you to take a gander through my ROTJ wishlist. There you can see much of my thoughts regarding ROTJ and understand my take on certain scenes (including what I think can be deleted/trimmed) and, who knows, perhaps there’s something in there you’ll like for your future editing 😃

Haha, I totally get y’all’s concerns on the pacing/lack of setup. I think the thing to keep in mind with my cuts are that I’m doing all six of Georges films at the same time to align all of them, so the Jabba setup has already happened in the Phantom Menace’s Podrace scene. I also MASSIVELY reworked Dagobah in Empire, so that the single scene of Yoda’s Death would make sense in Jedi (I’m trying to do a Dark Crystal style setup where the first scene sets up the Emperor, and the second scene is the death of the eldest mystic (Yoda)). Because you’ve seen so much of Yoda in the Prequels, and you know from the Prequels that Vader is Luke’s daddy, you don’t need the bit where Yoda confirms this (I’m pretty sure that scene was put into Vanilla Jedi because so many folks were convinced Vader was lying at the end of Empire). In short, the Yoda scene doesn’t feel too short in the scale of the full saga, but it would be WAY too short/unsatisfying, if you don’t have the Prequels.

FYI I was never actually arguing that Ady should use my recut for his version of Jedi (I don’t think it will match at all with the other two, lol). I was just trying to give an example of how you can indeed effectively start on Dagobah, if you want to. 😉

I don’t have a ton of free time at the moment, but go on you can PM me anyway. I just can’t promise that I’ll look it over in a timely manner.

As far as Jedi being the best of all six, I know that sounds ridiculous, but I think you can actually get it pretty stinking close to the level of VI and V, with the just the material from the Vanilla Cut. If you wanna see more of that, I’d hop over to my thread (right now we’re talking Attack of the Clones, but we’ll eventually get to recutting the Sail Barge, the Final Duel, and other cool Jedi stuff, and I really don’t wanna sidetrack Ady’s thread down a rabbit hole, haha!).

Cheers!

-JoE

Phase3 said:

Many thanks for your kind words! I’m glad that you could use the upscales I did. 😃

Prepare yourself. I think a lot of folks are about to start asking you for those. 😉

Okay y’all time to talk some Politics!

The Politics of Attack of the Clones are pretty convoluted in the Vanilla Cut. My theory is that George was working from two or three different ideas for the political landscape and never landed on one, so we ended up with several of these conflicting visions fighting each other.

To me the way to fix it is incredible simple: Padme doesn’t want a war, The Jedi don’t have an opinion, The Trade Federation wants a war, and Count Dooku/Palpatine are working together to engineer a war from both sides.

The war might start because a pacifist Senator (Padme) is assassinated (since she can no longer lead the opposition), or the war might start because the pacifist Senator is removed from the capital for her own safety, or the war might start because detective Obi-Wan uncovers the Seperatist Plot, or the war might start because Arch Duke Poggle the Lesser decides to execute a group of Republic Political Prisoners, or the war might start because a Gungan Senator hates the Trade Federation because of what they did to his homeworld (This is why you don’t need Palpatine to tempt Jar-Jar, and you can cut the scene where Padme leaves Jar Jar in charge. Once Jar Jar finds out from Obi-Wan that the Trade Federation are building a secret army, OF COURSE he’s gonna argue that the Chancellor from his homeworld should be given the emergency powers necessary to stop them.)

If you think of it this way, Dooku and Palpatine don’t have a set “plan” to start the war, rather they are crafting the specific conditions for a war to break out. To make that work you only have to make two changes: First we have to cut the scene where Dooku interogates Obi-Wan, because it never did, and it never will make any sense. Dooku has so little screen time that he needs to stay a one-dimensional baddie for the sake of this film’s clarity. Secondly, we have to cut the Nute Gunray “Head on my desk” subplot, and restructure that scene so that Dooku is using the Trade Federation’s willingness to join the Separatist cause as a selling point to recruit the Bank Clan, Techno Union, and so on. . . The other benefit of cutting the Gunray subplot, is that now we have no idea who ordered the hit on Padme. It quite possibly could be Palpatine who is growing tired of her efforts to stop the war from starting. If you assume that, the whole argument over the extra security takes on a new meaning, because Padme’s tense look at the Chancellor may now mean, “You may not have ordered the hit, but you sure are benefitting from it. . .”

BUT! Now we have a big problem! The two scenes that make this entire story work were deleted: Padme’s Address to the Senate, and Count Dooku’s Interogation of Anakin and Padme.

BUT THERE’S GOOD NEWS!!! The Wonder from Down Under, Phase3 has managed some upscale wizardry and restored those scenes as far as humanly possible, and now I present to you those two scenes restored and in context (I’ve added the scene before and the scene after both deleted scenes, so y’all can see how they work within the natural flow of the film).

Scene 1 [Padme Addresses the Senate]: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wPY5iDlp3LuX9Zfn96XoFDXHWW3BVjtK/view?usp=sharing

Scene 2 [Count Dooku Interogates Padme and Anakin]: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bhwsKZK-S643nxx76z4N-ZFgsFmRK8oJ/view?usp=sharing

Everyone give Phase3 a huge round of applause! The lad deserves it!

I’m glad you enjoyed that, it’s a funny little video I made, I love chaotic absurdism. I love Walking with Dinosaurs so much, it’s my favorite piece of media after the Original Star Wars Trilogy.
I made a two part video essay about WWD. And a video essay about ROTJ (also had to be split in two). If you’re interested.

Watched the first part of your Jedi Review and really enjoyed it! Great work!

Have you ever seen the BBC version of Conan Doyle’s “Lost World” (I’m sure you have)? My favorite thing about that EXCELLENT series is that they reused all the dino models from Walking With Dinosaurs. In my head, I can see some BBC executive leaning back in his chair saying, “So we paid all this money to bring these dinosaurs to life and you just want to make an Attenborough special?”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXwsTDmniPM

BedeHistory731 said:

I’m curious how you’ll handle the Sail Barge battle, as I’ve never been particularly keen on how it’s structured in the movie.

Okay first off, I need to know the story behind your username. Anyone whose username references one of the greatest tomes to come out of the twin monasteries of Monkwearmouth-Jarrow, must have an extreme amount of class.

To your Jedi question, the answer to that is blasphemous. . . You have to cut Boba Fett out of the fight, because if you do, suddenly everything works. It turns out the main villain of the Sail Barge should have been the bro with the deck gun, because he ties together Luke’s swashbuckling and Han’s skiff sinking together like a bow.

If you make that major change and recut the fight choreography to match the Prequels (think the Arena Battle), suddenly the sequence turns into the STAR WARS version of Errol Flynn’s “Robin Hood” in the best way possible.

Sadly, my cut of that sequence (And most of my Return of the Jedi), were destroyed when my copy of Adobe Premiere gained sentience and began deleting footage of its own accord. But not to worry, it will be rebuilt by the end of this year, and if you remind me in a few months I’ll probably have that sequence ready.

O00ll00O said:

Just wait til we get to the Arena Battle. It’s gonna be Force Mad!

I know you said it’s something that you’re really proud of, so I can’t wait to see it!

I’m gonna show y’all something else tonight, but I reckon we can take a look at that soon.

Phase3 said:

O00ll00O said:
The only shot that looks a little off to me is the shot of Obi-Wan hopping off the little ship ramp, to be followed by the next frame where they’re both in different spots (due to cutting out Padme’s little blurp about getting a transport). How do you think it looks without the little ramp hop? https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UV6fCLpxe9O_tQ3mfAJgCCbVlsPYF85y/view?usp=sharing

That is such a great cut! I am going to revisit my own AOTC edit, and incorporate many of the changes shown in this thread!

Just wait til we get to the Arena Battle. It’s gonna be Force Mad!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwJdb59IuHU

O00ll00O said:

JoyOfEditing said:

O00ll00O said:

I like the structure of your opening. The sequencing is vastly different in comparison to the original, but it makes a lot of sense.

I actually attempted to make an edit inside your edit. This is the first cut I’ve ever done, so let me know your thoughts. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Y5ZUOb6-XaXDjLtnVwtdiNBEZeFayocU/view?usp=sharing

-Start the music a beat after 3P0 says “he agrees!”. I think that feels closer to the atmosphere of the cantina when everyone abruptly moves on after a conflict is settled. It’s also a little more chaotic with Chewy trying to yell over the music.
-Remove Landos helmet bonk on the ceiling
-Remove how long the shot of Lando pulling down his mask is. It’s way to in your face.

Yo! I really like your recut! Great job! It just goes to show you there are 100s of good ways to skin a cat.

I quite like the way you cut around the Chewie sequence. It’s very effective at getting rid of the helmet bonk, and the music cut is pretty smooth.

For my cut I would stick with what I have on all of those points, for sequence balancing reasons (if you pop up to #1633920 on this thread, I explain how that kind of editing works in detail). The back half of that Jabba sequence, I’m trying to throttle down the pace in order to move into a more contemplative Dagobah scene, so the helmet bonk (while a bit goofy), gives me the meta-pace I’m looking for. As a side note. . . I’m almost convinced George worked in a helmet bonk into all six of his films. . . I don’t know where they all are, but there are so many of them, I’m starting to think it turned into an intentional running gag by the time we get to the Prequels (See the Jango Fett bonk on Kamino).

Last thing: (Brace yourself this is gonna be super pedantic) The reason I personally wouldn’t tighten up the music cue the way you did, is because a Jazz (Jizz?) song of that type starts with a silent count, because the opening notes begin before the first “1”. So instead of “1-2-3-4-Bummmm-budum-budum-bum-bum” (Jedi Rocks from the Special Edition), it’s “1-2-3-(4)budum-(1)BumBum”. If you watch Max Rebo’s hand, he’s doing the silent count so the band can start on “4”. The silent beat that you cut is the beginning of the silent count. Basically, there’s no way a real musician could start that song as quickly as you cut it and have everybody come in on time.

PS Thank you mom for all of those stupid Clarinet lessons in High School. . .

I appreciate all the helpful feedback, thank you! And hey maybe just add a helmet bonk sound like in ANH:SE and lean in to it lol

Your updated AOTC Dooku fight is so much more menacing and quick paced. He’s an experienced Jedi master who’s tapped in to the dark side, and your cut gives that feeling much more naturally. The only shot that looks a little off to me is the shot of Obi-Wan hopping off the little ship ramp, to be followed by the next frame where they’re both in different spots (due to cutting out Padme’s little blurp about getting a transport). How do you think it looks without the little ramp hop? https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UV6fCLpxe9O_tQ3mfAJgCCbVlsPYF85y/view?usp=sharing

The reason I’m pretty sure the helmet bonking is intentional, is the gratuitous CGI Jango Fett head bonk when he boards the Slave I in AotC. That SFX was really annoying to scrub.

HOLY FENCING INSTRUCTOR! That Dooku cut is sick!!! I tried so many times to find an elegant fix for that stupid ramp hop, and it turns out there was a beautiful match cut staring me right in the face. . . Fantastic work, bro! I’m adding that tweak to my cut, and the old link now has the version with your change: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-GJ1VlEvPO5XlQALDODDeZdWrGEH_ZHP?usp=sharing

Between the 10 of us, I think we finally cut an epic version of my least favorite duel.

Keep up the great work!

G&G-Fan said:

JoyOfEditing said:

Hey y’all! In response to a question posed on Adywan’s RotJ Thread about how easy/hard it is for Luke to start on Dagobah, and then go to Tatooine, I posted a link to my version of the opening of RotJ. It seems like some of y’all wanna talk about it, so I’m reposting it here so we don’t derail Ady’s Thread.

Link: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1EleIyLvBBrk-D8zN9zy23NJhEeg6FMcs?usp=sharing

Enjoy!

-JoE

Why delete Vader’s line, “Perhaps I can find new ways to motivate them”? It’s a great way of showing his ruthlessness towards his own men.

And the replacement of low-angle shot of Vader walking down the shuttle is really odd to me. That is one of the most badass shots of Vader, powerful and menacing. It’s one of the reasons his entrance in ROTJ is my favorite. Why replace it with the boring long shot from the ESB SE?

. . . Is this the part where I tell you Vader never kills any of his own men in my cut. . . 😉

I KNEW SOMEONE WOULD CATCH THAT SHOT SWITCHEROO!!! The basic logic is this. I want that scene to focus on the Empire’s unpreparedness to face the Rebel Fleet, and the coming showdown with the Emperor, which means that Vader’s inherent awesomeness needs to take a back seat for that specific scene. In other scenes like the scene where the shuttle Tyderium “sneaks” past the Imperial Fleet, I recut that sequence entirely from Vader’s perspective, to focus on how perceptive he is in the Force, and in all of the fights scenes I made Vader infinitely more lethal, because the original fight choreography was. . . well. . . lacking in that department.

So the basic answer to your question is that in all my scene cuts I try to realign the “focus” to the primary point of that scene, which sometimes means cutting one of the greatest Vader shots of all time, and switching it with a lamer shot of him rushing down the gangway to emphasis the Empire’s growing weakness. (Essentially it’s visually showing the dramatic power shift that’s happened since Vader blasted his way onto the Blockade Runner in IV. The Rebels are no longer a couple X-Wings and a lucky torpedo, that Fleet massing near Sullust is now a force to be reckoned with.) It’s okay I know the sin I committed is unforgivable. 😃

On a completely different note, is your YouTube name “Lord Vader Tyrannus”? If so, I stumbled on your “Ornithocheirus ASMR” video and laughed sooooo hard! I miss Walking with Dinosaurs sooooo much!!! The newer series just didn’t hit the same way.

jkimm said:

JoyOfEditing said:

jkimm said:

Sounds like you’ve had quite the career. Your videos definitely have a professional touch to them. I especially like the storyboard part of the youtube vids.

Thought I’d have some fun with the AOTC duel and do a little trimming. Not that there’s anything wrong with what you have of course. Here’s a list of the changes:

•Cut Dooku force lightning Ben’s lightsaber
•Removed a few frames when Anakin lunges towards Dooku
•Cut several closeup shots of Anaking and Dooku duel in the dark
•Cut Dooku saying “you have interfered with our affairs for the last time”
•Cut Dooku looking up toward the ceiling
•Trimmed the back and forth force lightning. Now Yoda just catches the one streak.
•Cut front facing shot of Padme shooting ship
•Cut Yoda force lifting his cane

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1I-YCr2AzmFeDxDsZrSrDn1IAH213xNfG/view?usp=sharing

All righty. I’m so glad you sent me those changes, because for some reason it made me able to see the correct rhythm for the full sequence for the first time. Technically Dooku is trying to escape, so I re-engineered the sequence to feel that way, and tried to use the cutting style of Empire’s Duel with a bit of Duel of the Fates, and for the first time this baby really sings. I ended up using many of your ideas, and then adjusted them to work in the new sequence flow. All in I made a couple dozen changes from the last version. Here’s the new final (Hopefully): https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iNnjVlAVJiM4OBWglNimLfbBLX7ngmBv/view?usp=drive_link

Great work buddy! Thanks for the help!

Whoa! Dooku actually looks like a badass now. Excellent work!

Hope you don’t mind if I nitpick one tiny thing. At 0:23, it looks like Dooku starts to raise his arms and is about to say something. I trimmed off a second to see what it looks like. What do you think?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_H6xBfWlpRX22zi5fLDa8Kguje8i9NvJ/view?usp=sharing

I almost did that too, haha! But I’m too fond off that fencing flourish Dooku does. Since his whole fighting style is based on European fencing, especially his take down of Obi-Wan, I wanted to keep that little detail in. The mouth movement you’re referring to was never a line, that’s just the face Sir Christopher was making, lol!

regularjoe said:

JoyOfEditing said:

Okie Doke. Here’s a link to my opening of RotJ up to the point where Luke walks in through Jabba’s front door: //drive.google.com/drive/folders/1EleIyLvBBrk-D8zN9zy23NJhEeg6FMcs?usp=sharing

Interesting resequencing.
I chopped the entire Obi-Wan scene, there’s just too much reiteration and nothing really new said…except who the other Skywalker is.
I did some selective cutting when Luke and Leia are talking on Endor to stay in step with this.
Now, just like in TESB where Vader reveals his paternity to Luke, it’s Vader and the Force sleuthing out that Luke has a sister during their duel, he threatens to turn Luke’s sister and that puts him over the edge.
Leia now announces to the audience the brother/sister thing as the she and the Force open up to one another and she connects the dots.

I cut Leia’s reveal out of RotS, so that Ben scene is now the reveal, like it was originally. For the bit where Vader finds out about Leia. . . Hear me out. . . The ideal spot for that is actually during the scene where Luke turns himself in to Vader, specifically the shot where Vader silently stares off into space holding Luke’s lightsaber after Luke has just been put in the AT-AT. If you cut that scene like Vader is talking to himself as he turns away, “So you have a twin sister, your feelings have now betrayed her too.”, it plays exactly like the scene in IV where Vader senses Ben’s presence on the Death Star. The reason I think that works is that Luke just said goodbye to Leia (so she’s obviously on his mind), and Ghost Ben had warned Luke to be careful of his feelings about his sister, because they might betray him. The twin (pun intended) benefit of moving up Vader’s knowledge of Leia is that you can now recut the Throne Room Duel as a single extended sequence with no breaks (Bespin Style), brought on by the Emperor murdering Luke’s buddies with the Death Star laser, and Darth Vader’s final line to Luke, “Tell your sister, you were right.” hits with WAY more punch, because it means Vader was thinking about Leia this whole time, and Luke is just now finding out that his dad knew about his sister.

jkimm said:

JoyOfEditing said:

jkimm said:

Sounds like you’ve had quite the career. Your videos definitely have a professional touch to them. I especially like the storyboard part of the youtube vids.

Thought I’d have some fun with the AOTC duel and do a little trimming. Not that there’s anything wrong with what you have of course. Here’s a list of the changes:

•Cut Dooku force lightning Ben’s lightsaber
•Removed a few frames when Anakin lunges towards Dooku
•Cut several closeup shots of Anaking and Dooku duel in the dark
•Cut Dooku saying “you have interfered with our affairs for the last time”
•Cut Dooku looking up toward the ceiling
•Trimmed the back and forth force lightning. Now Yoda just catches the one streak.
•Cut front facing shot of Padme shooting ship
•Cut Yoda force lifting his cane

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1I-YCr2AzmFeDxDsZrSrDn1IAH213xNfG/view?usp=sharing

Okay. . . cutting out Dooku’s force lighting of Obi-Wan’s saber is sick as heck! And it really lines up with the tone that I’m going for. Imma steal that one, lol!

I also love the way you match cut the OTS shot of Padme shooting with the laser bolts going past Dooku’s window. It really paces up the intensity of that sequence in a great way. Imma steal that one too!

A lot of the other changes work well, so I’m gonna play around with them a bit, and then reupload my own revised version to same link, so you can take a look.

Great work, bro! Love it!

Thanks!

There are so many bits in the prequels that are unnecessary or just awkward. Even something as simple as removing the battle droid voices makes a huge difference. I’m curious to see how you edited the Anakin/Obi-Wan duel at the end of ROTS. I took a stab at it a while ago but was never quite satisfied. Might make another attempt after being inspired by your work.

It’s funny. The Battle of the Heroes is surprisingly hard to cut. It took me a ton of passes, but I finally landed on a version that I’m completely satisfied with. When I have some spare time, I’ll render it out so you can take a look. It’s closest in overall shape to Hal’s version if you’ve seen that one (He does the whole sequence in a single run), but I did a ton of fine tuning, especially to the transitions, so that it actually feels like it was designed as a single sequence.

jkimm said:

Sounds like you’ve had quite the career. Your videos definitely have a professional touch to them. I especially like the storyboard part of the youtube vids.

Thought I’d have some fun with the AOTC duel and do a little trimming. Not that there’s anything wrong with what you have of course. Here’s a list of the changes:

•Cut Dooku force lightning Ben’s lightsaber
•Removed a few frames when Anakin lunges towards Dooku
•Cut several closeup shots of Anaking and Dooku duel in the dark
•Cut Dooku saying “you have interfered with our affairs for the last time”
•Cut Dooku looking up toward the ceiling
•Trimmed the back and forth force lightning. Now Yoda just catches the one streak.
•Cut front facing shot of Padme shooting ship
•Cut Yoda force lifting his cane

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1I-YCr2AzmFeDxDsZrSrDn1IAH213xNfG/view?usp=sharing

All righty. I’m so glad you sent me those changes, because for some reason it made me able to see the correct rhythm for the full sequence for the first time. Technically Dooku is trying to escape, so I re-engineered the sequence to feel that way, and tried to use the cutting style of Empire’s Duel with a bit of Duel of the Fates, and for the first time this baby really sings. I ended up using many of your ideas, and then adjusted them to work in the new sequence flow. All in all, I made a couple dozen changes from the last version. Here’s the new final (Hopefully) version: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iNnjVlAVJiM4OBWglNimLfbBLX7ngmBv/view?usp=drive_link

Great work buddy! Thanks for the help!

Phase3 said:

JoyOfEditing said:

Hey y’all! In response to a question posed on Adywan’s RotJ Thread about how easy/hard it is for Luke to start on Dagobah, and then go to Tatooine, I posted a link to my version of the opening of RotJ. It seems like some of y’all wanna talk about it, so I’m reposting it here so we don’t derail Ady’s Thread.

Link: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1EleIyLvBBrk-D8zN9zy23NJhEeg6FMcs?usp=sharing

Enjoy!

-JoE

Your restructuring flows very smoothly - it’s great! At first I thought how would you get around not explaining why Threepio is already in Jabba’s palace, but then again Lando is already there haha!
I would love to borrow some of your ideas for my own ROTJ edit! 😃

Cheers matey! Take whatever you like! Yeah, one of my main tweaks to Jedi as a whole is to make Threepio a bit more heroic. One of my favorite parts of the recut is when Leia and Threepio look over to at something. In the original it was Boba Fett nodding, but I changed it to a wide shot of Han Solo from the one of cut droid scenes, so that look now reads like: “There he is. We’re almost to the finish line.”

O00ll00O said:

I like the structure of your opening. The sequencing is vastly different in comparison to the original, but it makes a lot of sense.

I actually attempted to make an edit inside your edit. This is the first cut I’ve ever done, so let me know your thoughts. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Y5ZUOb6-XaXDjLtnVwtdiNBEZeFayocU/view?usp=sharing

-Start the music a beat after 3P0 says “he agrees!”. I think that feels closer to the atmosphere of the cantina when everyone abruptly moves on after a conflict is settled. It’s also a little more chaotic with Chewy trying to yell over the music.
-Remove Landos helmet bonk on the ceiling
-Remove how long the shot of Lando pulling down his mask is. It’s way to in your face.

Yo! I really like your recut! Great job! It just goes to show you there are 100s of good ways to skin a cat.

I quite like the way you cut around the Chewie sequence. It’s very effective at getting rid of the helmet bonk, and the music cut is pretty smooth.

For my cut I would stick with what I have on all of those points, for sequence balancing reasons (if you pop up to #1633920 on this thread, I explain how that kind of editing works in detail). The back half of that Jabba sequence, I’m trying to throttle down the pace in order to move into a more contemplative Dagobah scene, so the helmet bonk (while a bit goofy), gives me the meta-pace I’m looking for. As a side note. . . I’m almost convinced George worked in a helmet bonk into all six of his films. . . I don’t know where they all are, but there are so many of them, I’m starting to think it turned into an intentional running gag by the time we get to the Prequels (See the Jango Fett bonk on Kamino).

Last thing: (Brace yourself this is gonna be super pedantic) The reason I personally wouldn’t tighten up the music cue the way you did, is because a Jazz (Jizz?) song of that type starts with a silent count, because the opening notes begin before the first “1”. So instead of “1-2-3-4-Bummmm-budum-budum-bum-bum” (Jedi Rocks from the Special Edition), it’s “1-2-3-(4)budum-(1)BumBum”. If you watch Max Rebo’s hand, he’s doing the silent count so the band can start on “4”. The silent beat that you cut is the beginning of the silent count. Basically, there’s no way a real musician could start that song as quickly as you cut it and have everybody come in on time.

PS Thank you mom for all of those stupid Clarinet lessons in High School. . .

Hey y’all! In response to a question posed on Adywan’s RotJ Thread about how easy/hard it is for Luke to start on Dagobah, and then go to Tatooine, I posted a link to my version of the opening of RotJ. It seems like some of y’all wanna talk about it, so I’m reposting it here so we don’t derail Ady’s Thread.

Link: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1EleIyLvBBrk-D8zN9zy23NJhEeg6FMcs?usp=sharing

Enjoy!

-JoE

.Mac. said:

JoyOfEditing said:

Okie Doke. Here’s a link to my opening of RotJ up to the point where Luke walks in through Jabba’s front door: //drive.google.com/drive/folders/1EleIyLvBBrk-D8zN9zy23NJhEeg6FMcs?usp=sharing

So back on topic for ROTJ:R, personally, I’m always up for reading and seeing what all ideas people would like to share about it, so share anything about it you wish here, Joy! I’m sure Ady won’t mind any extra potential ideas/concepts, especially if they’re video clips where we can actually see how it looks and feels. I am one who believes this movie needs as much of our ideas together as possible, and from there Ady will pick what he feels is the best and most appropriate option. Btw, I hope people don’t get me wrong, I still very much like ROTJ and it will always have a special place with me (and through the hard work of preservationists, we’ll still have the original), but if we look at this film objectively and compare it to the previous two films of the trilogy, at least imho, it isn’t quite on par (for various reasons), which is why, if Ady is wanting and willing, I’m a proponent for some bigger changes and not just VFX updates that ESB:R only needed.

Ugh, and of course “it’s late, I’m in for it as it is!” as it’s a work night for me. TGIF though! I’ll definitely be checking out the above clip as soon as I get the chance and let you know what I think, Joy!

Hey! Glad you’ve been enjoying the videos! My cut doesn’t give a scruffy nerfherder about the canon (because I’m working from the perspective of being the editor who is setting the canon), so some of cuts are probably a bit too radical for the kind of thing Ady is doing, which I’m super excited about, especially for the B-Wings, baby! But any time any editor wants to use one of my changes, I’m always happy to help out.

My general take on RotJ is that I completely agree with HAL-9000 that RotJ is the first “Prequel”. All of the editing and storytelling problems present in the prequels are already on display in RotJ. However, I also agree with Hal that it has the potential to be one the best if not the best of all of George’s STAR WARS films. Basically, you have to completely overhaul Jedi’s structure and then delete a bunch of the minor story points to make the film feel focused like A New Hope. If you do that, Jedi really sings!

An example of what I’m talking about is in the clip I posted. If you recut the Tatooine sequence as a heist film, where you’re coming in in the middle of a plan in progress, the whole sequence suddenly works. Then if you use that structure to rework a bunch of the characters: Make Jabba more Godfather-y and competent, Threepio never gets “captured” he and Lando have been working in the background to take jobs close to Jabba. Han has full eyesight during the Sail Barge Brawl, so his shot on the tentacle is Han Solo being dope, rather than goofing around, Artoo also never gets capture and sneaks aboard the Sail Barge of his own accord (Threepio’s dialogue in that scene shockingly makes complete sense of that change), and if you completely overhaul Luke’s lightsaber skills with the editing techniques developed for the Prequels (think Arena Battle), he suddenly feels like a Prequel Era Jedi Knight like he should at this stage.

The terrible thing is my whole rework of the opening sequence is just so I can cut directly from the Emperor’s Arrival on the Death Star II to the Rebel Fleet massing near Sullust. That one change COMPLETELY overhauls the tone of Jedi, and gets the hype train rolling for the greatest of all Space Battles. That specific change would probably work really, really well with the incredible stuff Ady is going to do.

O00ll00O said:

JoyOfEditing said:

Okie Doke. Here’s a link to my opening of RotJ up to the point where Luke walks in through Jabba’s front door: //drive.google.com/drive/folders/1EleIyLvBBrk-D8zN9zy23NJhEeg6FMcs?usp=sharing

I like the structure of your opening. The plots points are vastly different in comparison to the original, but they honestly make a lot of sense.

I actually attempted to make an edit inside your edit. This is the first cut I’ve ever done, so let me know your thoughts. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Y5ZUOb6-XaXDjLtnVwtdiNBEZeFayocU/view?usp=sharing

-Start the music a beat after 3P0 says “he agrees!”. I think that feels closer to the atmosphere of the cantina when everyone abruptly moves on after a conflict is settled. It’s also a little more chaotic with Chewy trying to yell over the music.
-Remove Landos helmet bonk on the ceiling
-Remove how long the shot of Lando pulling down his mask is. It’s way to in your face.

Hey! I’m glad your giving editing a go! Tell ya what, lemme go ahead and repost this clip on my thread and we’ll chat over there. I don’t wanna sidetrack Ady’s Thread. 😉 When you see the repost, copy this response, and I’ll reply to that.

O00ll00O said:

JoyOfEditing said:

O00ll00O said:

Hey Joy, how’d you go about editing/editing around the Obi-Wan Vader duel in ANH? I’ve seen some people increase the playback speed, make quicker cuts, etc. You do anything like that? Or do you somehow remove the fight all together? I’d enjoy watching your take on that

I’m still fine tuning that sequence, but the short answer is cut it out entirely.

There’s several reasons why for me that’s the right answer, if like me you’re trying to do a recut of all six of George’s films.

1. The scene is unsalvageable. I don’t know if you saw my recut of the Empire Duel that I posted a while ago, but both that duel and the RotJ Duel can be brought into pretty close alignment with the Prequel Duels if you use the same editing techniques that Ben Burtt and his team used in the Prequels. There is no way to fix SC38 like that.

2. The scene is unnecessary. There is no essential dialogue or information delivered in that scene. Furthermore, the dialogue seems odd considering how the Battle of the Heroes ended. That duel is a fight between brothers, whereas the dialogue in SC38 feels more like a detached teacher/student relationship. This misalignment is another reason I would argue to cut it. Ironically Vader’s conversations to himself and Tarkin about Obi-Wan’s presence, and the look on Obi-Wan’s face when he draws his lightsaber while he’s sneaking around tell a much better story on their own without SC38.

3. I reworked the whole action around SC38, so that we don’t know that Vader and Ben are dueling until Luke does. If the whole sequence is restructured as a surprise reveal for the duel, the result feels shockingly natural and intentional from a filmmaking standpoint.

4. The new sequence actually makes MORE sense and to my mind is WAY MORE interesting without SC38. Vader tells Tarkin that “Escape is not Obi-Wan’s plan.” . . . Then what is Ben’s plan? I think Ben’s plan is to draw Vader into a duel to stop him from stopping Luke and his friends from escaping. Ben knows this will work because Vader wants revenge for what happened on Mustafar. I think Vader knows that this is Ben’s plan and doesn’t care because he hates Obi-Wan that much. That’s why he tells Tarkin that he must face Ben alone. He is determined to kill Obi-Wan himself. The smile on Ben’s face as he sacrifices himself, could now be read as Ben realizing his plan to use Vader’s hatred against him has worked, and he might also be basking in the irony that Vader’s son is slipping away right under his nose.

Does that all make sense?

2. Makes total sense. I agree, if you’re watching the movies in order, than most of that dialogue is redundant and a bit disconnected from what we just saw at the end of the prequels. I think that’s a really smart way to approach it with how you cut it. I imagine you’d trim Luke’s reaction to Obi-Wans death to be a little tighter too?

Yeah, I’m gonna try to cut it tighter.

1. Yeah I thought your Empire duel was fantastic! I liked a lot of your changes and mentioned I liked how much more intense Vader came out on the bridge among other things. Couldn’t ever find that one re-composited shot in the sequence for the bonus points though 😕 I actually just watched that cut again and thought the part where Luke falls in the carbon freezing chamber was done so much better. The original looks way more clumsy.

Cheers! There are like a million micro edits throughout that sequence to tighten it up. My theory is the main reason that the Prequels have tighter fight editing is they were edited on computers which allowed Ben Burtt and his team to try tons of cuts quickly until they landed on the perfect frame. One cut can often take me 15 guesses before I find the exact frame I’m looking for, and I can’t imagine I could be that precise on a KEM or a Moviola. . .

Watch the shot where Vader tosses the widget that kicks Luke out the window very carefully 😉

Okie Doke. Here’s a link to my opening of RotJ up to the point where Luke walks in through Jabba’s front door: //drive.google.com/drive/folders/1EleIyLvBBrk-D8zN9zy23NJhEeg6FMcs?usp=sharing

O00ll00O said:

Hey Joy, how’d you go about editing/editing around the Obi-Wan Vader duel in ANH? I’ve seen some people increase the playback speed, make quicker cuts, etc. You do anything like that? Or do you somehow remove the fight all together? I’d enjoy watching your take on that

I’m still fine tuning that sequence, but the short answer is cut it out entirely.

There’s several reasons why for me that’s the right answer, if like me you’re trying to do a recut of all six of George’s films.

1. The scene is unsalvageable. I don’t know if you saw my recut of the Empire Duel that I posted a while ago, but both that duel and the RotJ Duel can be brought into pretty close alignment with the Prequel Duels if you use the same editing techniques that Ben Burtt and his team used in the Prequels. There is no way to fix SC38 like that.

2. The scene is unnecessary. There is no essential dialogue or information delivered in that scene. Furthermore, the dialogue seems odd considering how the Battle of the Heroes ended. That duel is a fight between brothers, whereas the dialogue in SC38 feels more like a detached teacher/student relationship. This misalignment is another reason I would argue to cut it. Ironically Vader’s conversations to himself and Tarkin about Obi-Wan’s presence, and the look on Obi-Wan’s face when he draws his lightsaber while he’s sneaking around tell a much better story on their own without SC38.

3. I reworked the whole action around SC38, so that we don’t know that Vader and Ben are dueling until Luke does. If the whole sequence is restructured as a surprise reveal for the duel, the result feels shockingly natural and intentional from a filmmaking standpoint.

4. The new sequence actually makes MORE sense and to my mind is WAY MORE interesting without SC38. Vader tells Tarkin that “Escape is not Obi-Wan’s plan.” . . . Then what is Ben’s plan? I think Ben’s plan is to draw Vader into a duel to stop him from stopping Luke and his friends from escaping. Ben knows this will work because Vader wants revenge for what happened on Mustafar. I think Vader knows that this is Ben’s plan and doesn’t care because he hates Obi-Wan that much. That’s why he tells Tarkin that he must face Ben alone. He is determined to kill Obi-Wan himself. The smile on Ben’s face as he sacrifices himself, could now be read as Ben realizing his plan to use Vader’s hatred against him has worked, and he might also be basking in the irony that Vader’s son is slipping away right under his nose.

Does that all make sense?

honestabe said:

JoyOfEditing said:

Bingowings said:

Years ago I proposed that the film started with Luke on Dagobah completing his training by creating his lightsaber telekinetically. Yoda dies, having trained Luke and not just in mid sentence. Luke returns to Tatooine only to discover that in her inpatience Leia has already attempted to rescue Han and failed. Luke then has to rescue the rescue. It means shifting some scenes around and construction of new shots. But the technology to do so is almost upon us.

You actually don’t need new shots (If you assume Luke has been training the whole time and built his lightsaber sometime between V and VI). That’s pretty much how my cut runs. You just need a new crawl that says Luke is now a full Jedi Knight and will soon leave Dagobah to join Leia in a daring plan yada yada. If you wanna see that section I can render it out and post a link.

*It looks like you posted thus multiple times by accident.

I personally would love to see how you worked this out.

Oh man, my Internet went BANANAS for a sec, lol! I’ve asked Jay to Attack the Clones, so hopefully they’ll go away soon.

Sure thing I’ll Render it out right quick. Stand by.

Bingowings said:

Years ago I proposed that the film started with Luke on Dagobah completing his training by creating his lightsaber telekinetically. Yoda dies, having trained Luke and not just in mid sentence. Luke returns to Tatooine only to discover that in her inpatience Leia has already attempted to rescue Han and failed. Luke then has to rescue the rescue. It means shifting some scenes around and construction of new shots. But the technology to do so is almost upon us.

You actually don’t need new shots (If you assume Luke has been training the whole time and built his lightsaber sometime between V and VI). That’s pretty much how my cut runs. You just need a new crawl that says Luke is now a full Jedi Knight and will soon leave Dagobah to join Leia in a daring plan yada yada. If you wanna see that section I can render it out and post a link.

G&G-Fan said:

What’s the difference between balanced and unbalanced pacing?

Balanced pacing is “Balanced” to the needs of the specific sequence type. So for example a chase scene has different pacing needs compared with a conversation in a coffee shop. If you use the wrong pacing system (Coffee Shop pacing during a Chase Scene), the sequence looses balance.

For example Obi-Wan fight with Grievous’ ideal pacing is a duel moving into a chase and then moving back into a duel. However in the middle of the Vanilla Version, the pacing switches to “standard battle scene pacing” when the clones arrive, which throws the whole sequence off balance. That “standard battle scene pacing” is absolutely fine a few scenes down the road when we’re watching the end of the Utapau battle after the death of Grievous.

The other aspect of Balance vs. Unbalanced Pacing is when you are pacing out a sequence with multiple intercuts, like the End Battle of the Phantom Menace. To balance a sequence like that you have to also think about Internal vs External rhythm. Internal Rhythm is the pacing within one section of the sequence, and external rhythm is the pacing between different sections. You balance the Internal Rhythm like the Utapau example I gave above, and the External Rhythm is balanced by when you decide to “Take Breaths” to give the audience time to digest the action. I generally find that the most balanced place to “Take Breaths” in an intercut action sequence is in the front third or the back third of an individual scene. For example, in my cut of the end of the Phantom Menace, Qui-Gon telling Anakin to find a place to hide is the “Breath” in the first third of the Assault on the Hanger, and the N-1 slowly crashing into the plane is the “Breath” in the back third. Those two “Breaths” allow me to cut from and to intense action in the Gungan battle without it feeling jarring or disorienting.

Make Sense?