John Doom

A dialogue cut from ROTJ states that Luke's mother indeed was pregnant the same time his father left. Should I consider it canon and add it into the timeline? (it also states Owen is Obi-wan's brother).

BEN

When your father left, he didn't know your mother was pregnant. Your
mother and I knew he would find out eventually, but we wanted to keep
you both as safe as possible, for as long as possible.  So I took you
to live with my brother Owen on Tatooine... and your mother took Leia
to live as the daughter of Senator Organa, on Alderaan.

Darth Id said:

-50
    The Republic becomes the Empire.
        "[...] in the Old Republic. Before the dark times,
        before the Empire."

This is a non sequitur. 

Nothing Ben says necessarily means that HE was personally present for the birth of the Empire, or personally remembers it.  He is just discussing a World That Was, that he may only have heard about from his trainer, as one of the dwindling followers of the Force.  He could have been trained in the Jedi arts by a rogue Jedi long after the Jedi Knights had been ousted as official guardians. 

It could have been generations of secretive, hermit-style heretical Jedi, who were always fighting on the side of the various oppositions to the Empire.  Plus Ben could have been 120, and could have trained Anakin when he was already 60.

    The Jedi Order is disbanded by the Emperor
        "the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice
        in the Old Republic. Before the dark times, before the Empire."
    The Jedi are persecuted
        ?
    Obi-wan flees in "exile" and assumes a new identity.
        "I haven't gone by the name Obi-Wan since oh, before you were born."

Again, you're unconsciously subscribing to PT plot-points that were not necessarily part of the SW backstory.  The Jedi Order could have been deposed generations earlier--they were no longer "guardians" of the established political order, but were instead outcasts and rogues, fighting on the side of Good.  The whole Clone Wars business could very well have been (and I actually think WAS) entirely a post-Imperial course of events.

Yes Ben fought with Leia's father, and then had to go into exile at some point afterward, but that doesn't mean it all happened in one big, pat, tidy singularity as the PT would have it.

Remember, SW was supposed to be a sprawling, sweeping world of Mystery & Magic, with ancient histories and dark secrets.  Only later did Georgie-poo decide to boil it all down to one narrow, obsessively focused domino chain.

As you can see, there are some lines followed by a "?" instead of a dialogue: those are basically guesses, because there are many plot holes and, as I said, it still needs some work :D

Ben says that they once were Jedi and that they fought the Clone Wars, so I think he actually worked for some time for the Republic as a Jedi. Hard to say why they were "exiled", but being the Emperor afraid of Vader (last jedi)'s sons makes me think that it was his decision, because he saw the Jedi as a threat to his power.

Unfortunately we don't know much about the Clone Wars, but if Ben with "crusade" means these wars, it may've been something he and Anakin approved and fought for. Hard to say.

Indeed Obi-wan working with the Organas could have happened after the Clone Wars. Hard to say. Also, changing his birth year to ">-70".

Domino chains sometimes make for good plots :D (except in ROTS....)

Frey said:

This is a really neat and concise outline. I have a question about it: Did Anakin go evil, spend decades as Darth Vader, and then conceive two children with "Mrs. Vader"? That's interesting. Most interpretations of the prequel timeline that I've read about have Mrs. Skywalker discover her pregnancy while Anakin is still a good guy and a loyal Jedi. Your interpretation shakes that up a bit! It puts a very different image in my mind of who the mother was if she knew she carried the children of the Dark Lord of the Sith.

That "50" was a leftover, I'm sorry :D I just turned it into a "?" (the year the Empire was enstablished is still unknown to us, though about 40-50 years before the OT is a good guess to me).

Yep, I think it may be that Anakin had spent some time as "Vader" before having his sons. There's no concrete proof, but Obi-wan says he had to hide the twins from their father and the Emperor. Why would he do that? My only guess is that he already was "Vader". This interpretation gives enough time to people to forget about the Jedi (in the OT), to Obi-wan to be more than 70-80 years old and change his name into Ben before Luke's birth.

If that's the case, I myself wonder why this happened and HOW (which reminds me of a certain "Space Truckers" scene :D)

P.S.: I just removed every line I couldn't prove yet.

I read it too, but I had to keep the whole OT canon together, not only SW and TESB.

After a lot of research, I think this may be a possible OT timeline (well, at least it shouldn't contradict the original scripts).

Still needs some work, though :\

====SOURCES
http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Wars-A-New-Hope.html
http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Wars-The-Empire-Strikes-Back.html
http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Wars-Return-of-the-Jedi.html
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/793052/#TopicPost793052
http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2015/10/swnn-interview-james-kahn-author-of-return-of-the-jedi-novelization.html


====TIMELINE
-25,000
    The Old Republic, the first galaxy-wide government is formed;
    Jedi Knights appear;
    period of galactic peace and expansion begins.
        AGTTSWU (A Guide to the Star Wars Universe)
-896
    Yoda is born.
        "When nine hundred years old you reach, look as good you will not."
        AGTTSWU
-200
    Chewbacca is born on Kashyyyk.
        AGTTSWU
-112
    C-3PO is built in a Cybot Galactica plant on the planet Affa.
        George Lucas
>-60?
    Obi-wan is born.
        "Surely he must be dead by now" (Tarkin considers him very old)
        60 BSW4: Obi-Wan Kenobi is born. (AGTTSWU)
    Obi-wan becomes Yoda's apprentice
        "[...]Yoda,  the Jedi Master who instructed me."
-55
    Anakin is born.
        AGTTSWU
-48
    Mon Mothma is born on Chandrila.
        AGTTSWU
-?
    Obi-wan serves Organa in the Clone Wars
        "General Kenobi, years ago you served my father in the Clone Wars."
        AGTTSWU
-37?
    Anakin becomes a pilot.
        "He was the best star-pilot in the galaxy"
    Anakin becomes Obi-wan's apprentice.
        "When I first knew him, your father was already a great pilot.
        But I was amazed how strongly the Force was with him."
        "I took it upon myself to train him as a Jedi."
    Anakin and Obi-wan fight in the Clone Wars.
        "You fought in the Clone Wars?"
        "Yes, I was once a Jedi Knight the same as your father."
-35
    The Clone Wars end.
        AGTTSWU
-?
    Anakin leaves his training
        "When I left you, I was but the learner"
    Anakin faces Palpatine, but is defeated.
        "If you end your training now, if you choose
        the quick and easy path, as Vader did,
        you will  become an agent of evil."
        "Do not underestimate the powers of the Emperor,
        or suffer your father's fate, you will."
    Anakin is turned to the Dark Side.
        "You father was seduced by the dark side of the Force.
        [...] the good man who was your father was destroyed."
    Anakin becomes a royal under the name of Darth Vader, Lord of the Sith.
        "He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader."
-?
    Vader faces Obi-wan. The duel leaves him dying falling into a lava pit, but he menages to survive.
        George Lucas
        ROTJ's novelization
-?
    Last days of the Republic and the opening moments of the Empire
        AGTTSWU
    Vader hunts down the remaining Jedi.
        "Darth Vader [...] helped the Empire hunt down and destroy
        the Jedi Knights. [...] Now the Jedi are all but extinct."
    Obi-wan assumes a new identity, Ben Kenobi.
        "I haven't gone by the name Obi-Wan since oh, before you were born."
-18
    Luke and Leia are born.
        "Luke Skywalker, a farm boy with heroic aspirations
        who looks much younger than his eighteen years."
        AGTTSWU
    Their birth is kept secret.
        "To protect you both from the Emperor, you were hidden
        from your father when you were born."
    Luke is rised by his uncle.
    Leia is initially rised by her mother, before her death.
        "Leia... do you remember your mother? Your real mother?"
        "Just a little bit. She died when I was very young."
    Leia is adopted by the Organas
        "That is the reason why your sister remains safely anonymous."
-0
    "Star Wars"


====TODO
The Clone Wars begin
Palpatine is elected Chancellor

Indeed, according to TSHOSW, Obi-wan was originally to be about 30 years old in TPM, making him in his 70s in SW. It seems Qui-gon's addition is the mother of all retcons, after all :\

JEDIT: Nope! According to the "Timeline of galactic history", the OT is set 32 years after TPM, making Obi-wan about 60 years old in SW.

ray_afraid said:

Anchorhead said:

He [Lucas] wrote, filmed, and released the "no, there is another" scene without giving any thought to where it would go or who 'the other' actually was.

 Actually, Kershner shot it. And (I think) Kasdan wrote it and (I'm certain) had the idea that Luke would go off on his own to find this "Other" at the end of Jedi. Good stuff.
It's Lucas's heavy hand in ROTJ that began to show that Star Wars is better when he's less involved.

Though it's unlikely in a parallel universe we would've actually had Luke search for "another" while still saving Han, "completing" the training and facing Vader :D

ATMachine said:

In fact, Kasdan actually wrote Yoda's line as "We must search for another." Lucas changed it to "No, there is another."

Not only because of the whole incipient lost-sister plotline, but also because GL felt that, given Luke's status as the hero, the audience otherwise probably wouldn't think Luke was really in danger during the climactic duel.

I thought I remembered that was Kershner's concern, but I'm probably wrong.

Yep, either died of old age or killed. I wish that line was more explicit in this regard :D

About Obi-wan's age, I found this dialogue useful:

                                     VADER
                         A tremor in the Force. The last time
                         I felt it was in the presence of my
                         old master.

                                     TARKIN
                         Surely he must be dead by now.

                                     VADER
                         Don't underestimate the power of the
                         Force.

Tarkin seems to imply that Obi-wan may be very old, so much that he may've died of old age, yet he survived with the power of the Force. Could he be more than 70 years old? That would make sense: Yoda was able to live for more than 800 years in the same way.

Vader, on the other hand, seems he's not considered "old" by Tarkin, thus it's possible he's still in his 40s-60s in Star Wars.

If that's the case, Anakin's could've actually been the last Jedi generation, explaining why few people know about the Jedi in the OT.

Finally, if the Jedi disappeared with the rise of the Empire, it would make sense it started no more than around 50 years before Star Wars.

DominicCobb said:

You know nothing, John Doom.

DominicCobb said:

John Doom said:

Thank you, I always appreciate this kind of loosy replies. I wonder if you actually read what I wrote. What do YOU know, then? Tell me, tell me :D

I know that I was making a (pretty solid) Game of Thrones joke, mostly in response to the fact that you referred to the chrome trooper as a he, when she is played by Gwendoline Christie (an actress on Game of Thrones).

This I know, I used a generic "he" on purpose for Captain Asthma Coffeepot (I thought we were writing in the "non spoiler thread"...?)

DominicCobb said:

Also ur opinions r dum. 

More seriously though the teal and orange tint that fans are bemoaning is barely even there and it's really just silly to judge a movie based on its trailer. If you don't want to see it, don't.

That's right: if I don't want to see it, I won't (but I will, anyway :D). Are you even reading? I was asked about my opinion and I said it. It's ok if you disagree with my statements, I'm not trying to force anybody to agree with me.

DominicCobb said:

[...] If you don't like the trailer fine, but trailer quality =/= film quality. The trailer got me more excited and that's all. I'm was looking forward to the movie and hoping it would be good before I saw the trailer. Still do.

Trailers are supposed to be done to let people know about a movie, what to expect from it, but as I said, I know they may not always represent the final product. I disliked what I saw so far, that's all but, who knows, maybe the movie will be good, maybe not, maybe they'll change it, I don't know (do you?).

I'm glad you're looking forward to the movie. I got my own opinion, just like you have one.

DominicCobb said:

A trailer should not be the basis for you judging whether a film's cinematography is professional or not. Well, it should I guess. The cinematography looks (very obviously) very professional. But if you were making this on your fcking iPhone it would look extremely unprofessional and completely different, despite what you may think.

As I said, it's just that single shot and the way color and contrast is used that I think (just my opinion) most of the people on this forum can also do on their own, maybe better. I'm not talking about the equipment: there are lots of indie movie done with cheap equipments which can look professional (say, "The Evil Dead") and yet many top-budget productions which look bland and/or unprofessional.

13las said:

This is why Hollywood can't take risks any more. Every movie is analyzed to death before it comes out ("it'll suck if X character is in it" or "X thing will happen so it's going to be the best movie ever!"). With the cost of producing a blockbuster movie, would you blame them from pandering as much as possible to the fans? This film will be guilty of it, to be sure. But pre-judging it on those merits is perpetuating the problem, if you as me. 

Some 'fans' are stupid, why set up such specific criteria for a film before it is even released? It doesn't make sense to me, that's why I've chosen to avoid spoilers and trailers going forward for the Force Awakens. Because I love Star Wars and want to experience a Star Wars movie as a theatrical experience (was born after the OT was released). I may not end up enjoying the movie, but I'll be glad to give it a chance. 

It's really sad that some people can't do something as simple as that.

Cheer up, people just want to discuss about something they love, that's exactly what Disney expect us to do right now. It's an opportunity for everyone, after all. Don't worry: every fan will give the movie a chance one way or another, me too, even if by now I have mixed opinions.

P.S.: If Hollywood need to rob a bank to make a movie, it's their fault: people I know ask for good stories, not bigger budgets, as far as I know.

Thank you, I always appreciate this kind of loosy replies. I wonder if you actually read what I wrote. What do YOU know, then? Tell me, tell me :D

By the way he's staring at that shiny tablet, I think he's a drug smuggler.

Sevb32 said:

I wish you would explain in detail [...] what makes you qualified to judge what is or isn't professional?

I'm not qualified: I studied art at high school, not cinematography, so it's just my own opinion.

Sevb32 said:

I wish you would explain in detail how this new film looks unprofessional.

I was specifically talking about:

-this shot which is "non-static", like it was filmed by me and my friend with a cellphone (I also found the sudden guy's appearence from the frame's bottom unintentionally hilarious);

-the use of "teal & orange" and really poor contrast choices as seen here and here, which give away any sense of realism while making everything look fake and too shiny (just look a Captain Coffepot's helmet: great idea having him wear metal on camera, something it is rarely done and for a good reason). Shouldn't movies aim for realism (as much as possible)?

All of this may be changed for the final release, though (or by Virtualdub, later).

Sevb32 said:

Also a big drawing point to this movie is having the old cast back. I'm sure if they didn't have any cast members back there would be a lot of complaining about that too from other folks with opinions just as valid as yours. As Mark Hamill said, it's more about the new cast than it is them, they are there just to pass the torch. It makes sense to have them back.

I understand there a lot of different kind of fans. I personally wouldn't have complained not having the old cast back, because to me Star Wars is about the setting (the Force, the Galaxy, ...), not necessarily about the Skywalkers. Just my opinion, though.

P.S.: This shot is fine, but what the hell is he even doing? :D

I'm probably going to see it, but no rush :D

By now I have mixed opinions about the new movie. Mainly:

PROS:

-it's a new Star Wars movie;

-possibly totally new main characters;

-it seems the plot may be less predictable then the EU was;

-possibly no PT references (no sithheads and microorganisms);

CONS:

-recurring cast (I'm ok if they're just cameos, but it seems that's not the case);

-the teasers gave me the impression it'll be just another Disney/Marvel action movie (lots of action and marketing, like ROTJ);

-their directing also felt very unprofessional to me, something fan-made (in a bad way);

-I don't feel Star Wars actually needs main sequels (or prequels);

Hal 9000 said:

Who is and isn't planning on seeing the trailer once it's released?

I'm avoiding unofficial plot spoilers, but I'm going to watch the trailer to see if the movie will be worth to watch. I know movies and trailers are usually different, but this way I was able to stay away from a lot of bad ones :D

It's possible (though they may overlap your missing logos for the theatrical release), but still he may be applying the same concept with that poster, even if it's just for a few more teasers for TFA, waiting to be set side by side.

doubleofive said:

dan76 said:

One of the things I don't like about his work is that he clearly paints from photos and stills of the movie. The SE posters had weird inconsistencies in them.

Star Wars had Leia from Empire. With Empire he used a still of the Emperor from Jedi and had Darth Vader's Tie Fighter in the centre. For Jedi he reused the steps from the lightsaber duel in Empire... again. Why would he do this?

I used to have this problem until I realized that they're bigger pieces of one giant poster, so the things being from the wrong movie are actually because they're part of the same trilogy.

Could it be that he's using a similar concept for the new ones? You know, the new poster seems oddly hanging on the left, like it may continue with another one on the right. Maybe next to Han there are actually other two figures: Luke and Leia.

That poster looks fan-made. Really, that's what was my first thinking.

The attentions goes to the lightsabers and not the faces of their owner because their color is in contrast, something I don't remember ever seeing in the OT posters.

I like that the three figures on the top all share a weapon in their hands, thus making for an interesting parallel. Their bodies as their weapons reach out for the top, giving a sense of depth and vertigo.

BUT. Han's presence in the bottom of the poster spoils the structure by standing completely out of it. It's like he's saying:"Hey guys, I don't know why I'm even here, but I'm home" :\

I can't seem to find any theme in this poster other than:"These are the two protagonist, that's the bag guy, below it's your old friend, X-Wings/Tatooine vs Tie-Fighters/Bespin". It doesn't add any real theme or visual info about the movie's content. Not even one.

Most of them seem to look pretty fine, but maybe a little too reddish (at least compared to mverta's).

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/138910 still has that blu-ray blue boost. I guess the only way to fix it is to adjust the settings per scene.

Anchorhead said:

It would really be nice to get some mysticism back into the story.

That's something I'm looking forward too, especially from other (galactic) cultures.

Considering that we already know much about the Force from the OT, introducing the crystals in the ST is the easiest way for them to create new expectations (without relying on microorganisms or prophecies).

I agree, and it also shows how colorists lack imagination. I dislike teal & orange not because of the color choice, but because it's very bad implemented: one just have to compare the way it was done in 1977 to today. By now I'd rather watch a "blue" 80s movie or a "pinky" 90s one.

Back on topic, was it already confirmed that the two protagonists are related to the Skywalkers? I'd like totally new main characters.

Really impressive work. I can't believe technology has improved so much in ten years

I don't think that was green shifted, though: that green is really part of the original aesthetics (you can see it's in the Technicolor IB print as well).

Ryan McAvoy said:

dan76 said:

That's an awful poster, the layout would be ok but whats he got Han Solo doing there? He's shrunk, waving his gun around like an OAP. Oh, and its teal and orange. Great.

 I know right. Yuck. Teal and orange is sooooo 1977...

:\ That's no teal & orange. Neither is this one:

I think it looks both like a "jedi monk" and a "white mage" robe. Nothing new. And, of course, Luke now resembles Obi-wan.

unamochilla2 said:

Some shots seem to have it, but others don't seem to, such as the Jakku scenes.

I'm not sure, but I think it's the same grading: they both have strong teals and magentas, though the Jakku's scenes appear brighter and warmer because in the desert.

emanswfan said:

That new shot, just like the other one from that scene, still looks very fan-filmy.

Looks cool, just needs some proper grading.

Crossed fingers for an official better grading, but Virtualdub ready :(

They still got that ugly grading. It makes me puke... :\