JediRandy

Originally posted by: Mike O


I think the majority of people will probably feel like they have no inclination to pay to see something in a theater that they can watch for free on TV, that's all. I don't really think that it runs much deeper than that.

Originally posted by: CO
Yoda to JediRandy: No there is another.....

JediRandy: Sunday256 is my brother!

Originally posted by: sunday256
Dude, if you're so sick of Star Wars why the heck are you here pissing all over it now? Throw your DVDs/VHS in the trash and give it a rest and get on with your life. All you haters are amazing. You complain day in and day out about the prequels and over the OOT. Get over it and move on. The movie is coming out irregardless of your negative attitudes.

If you're going to hang around here and bitch and moan you might as well give this movie a chance since you still seem to be so infatuated with the movies and the idea that maybe one day George will get a clue and release the OOT as it should be in it's restored natural glory.

Some of you are amazingly hyprocritical.

Originally posted by: Mike O


You've gotta understand just HOW MUCH we hate the SEs .

Originally posted by: C3PX
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Originally posted by: JediRandy
I can't wait the hear the "yes" folks explain this one.
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I dunno, just in the way that you wrote it it seems more like a "haha you got pwnd!!!!1" than a true expression of interest in our explainations as to why we believe what we do. As for you not being able to wait, all four of us who voted yes gave the exact same reason why in here as we did in the other. So really rather than going through the waiting that you couldn't, you could have just reread our posts in the other thread. This very reason is why I infered that you were wanting us to explain why we are so vastly out numbered on the poll, rather than explain why we said yes, which you already knew.

If I was mistaken then I am sorry.

Originally posted by: C3PX


What exactly do the "yes" folks need to explain Randy? This poll is taking what OC, Zombie and I have said in another thread, pulled it out of context, then presented it to everyone else as a simple poll. The results of this poll really don't have a lot to do with our line of reasoning, nor have any effect on it. It doesn't prove we are "insane" or "shocking". In fact, if I stumbled across this poll without the context of the other conversation, and if it were only about the matter of not having the SE or the PT (which is not quite what we were trying to get at in the other thread) I would not have even given the matter much thought, I would simply vote "no" without even questioning myself.

Originally posted by: CO



JR, let me try to shed some light on the ESB/ROTJ story change issue. I love the OT, but SW'77 is my favorite of the 6 movies let alone of all-time for me, not ESB, so I am going to give you a view from someone who saw SW in 1977, and is able to see the story evolve on the bigscreen, not just by heresay or message boards.

SW & ESB/ROTJ are totally different animals, as they can work as a trilogy, but if you really dissect the story in ESB/ROTJ is TOTALLY different then the story that was put on screen in 1977. I love ESB, I think it is a great movie, but I am not the biggest fan of 'I am your father!' Now you are probably saying to yourself, "How can you not love that, it is the greatest twist in the history of movies?" Because it contradicts the original movie, plain & simple, and what happened is it changed SW from a macro story about Luke & the Rebels fighting the Empire in the struggle for the galaxy to a micro story of Luke/Vader which is so prevailent in ROTJ, and even more about Anakin in the PT.

What we are all trying to say is that "I am your father" is a killer plot twist, and I was as stunned as everyone sitting there as an 8 year old in 1980, but if you look at how Lucas took the OT, via ROTJ storyline, and even futher the PT, he got away with the original storyline that made SW'77 so great.

The reason I love SW'77 is because there isn't any grey areas to it, it is such a simple story of good vs evil, in the end that what makes it great. When you get to ROTJ, all of the sudden you have this moral tale of redemption, and redemption means something different to each person. But with ROTJ, Vader was still a minor character to Lukes story, so you really didn't have to examine his sins to enjoy the movie, it was Luke who threw down his saber, so you could gravitate to that act as the moral of the story.

With the PT, the story is clearly about Vader, and it is a grey one at that. Many people have a problem with him killing children, choking his wife, and then smiling as a force ghost at the end. Many Christians will side with Lucas and say EVERY sin is forgivable, so he has every right to sit next to Yoda/Kenobi in ROTJ. My whole point is that SW was not a grey area story back in 1977, and once Vader uttered those words to Luke on Bespin, the whole story & moral of the OT/Saga/ or whatever you want to call it changed, and that is why you have so many people like myself who questioned if ESB went the way of Vader, being the one killed Vader, and Luke taking a revenge angle, ala Conan the Barbarian/Braveheart storyline.

Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
Poor Randy, still having issues with people not loving every single aspect of the SW films, or their creator, for that matter.

And I love this part:

Even at two seconds, you've got him beat, LOL!

Originally posted by: C3PX



It shows. In our past signitures as well as your current one, and in a good deal of your posts.


Why is the concept of giving up something good for something better such a shocking/insane/idiotic one? The guy made some great movies, then nothing but Star Wars. He had a lot of great potential. Too bad it was never fully tapped into. I would have liked to see what this up and coming young director could have done as he matured, but instead of Star Wars remaining just one of many impressive films he had done, it became a creative constipation.


If that is so insane, then show me to my rubber room because I'm as mad as a hatter.

Originally posted by: JediRandy


And I'm blown away by your inability to be civil for 2 seconds.

"As much as I love Empire Strikes Back, I could have lived without it."

The only thing more idiotic than that statement is one that ends in "...anyway, I Love Jar Jar Binks!".

Originally posted by: C3PX


Maybe, he does tend to screw with most of his films, even the relatively unpopular ones. He screwed with THX 1138 and he added a CG sunset to American Graffiti. He was pretty quick to add the "A New Hope" subtitle to Star Wars and the "Indiana Jones and the ..." to a film that was once just called "Raiders of the Lost Ark". But would the screwing with have been as bad? He would have had to come up with an entirely new character for Jabba, as the slug like version from ROTJ would have never existed. And what is to say Star Wars would have remained in demand enough to warrant a theatrical re release worthy of all the time and effort put into the SE? Even if he did put Jabba in the film in some form or another, I don't think it would have been as big of a deal, because that was a real deleted scene from the movie. A pretty cool, but redundant one though. Even if the CG Jabba would have been as it is now, it wouldn't have been a big deal because it would be the only Jabba we would ever know. But in all honesty, I am not so sure Lucas would have choosen to put it back in had the character not been established in ROTJ. At any rate, I don't think the PT changes would have been as annoying in this alternative reality. You never know really. Perhaps the only reason he made "improvements" to THX and Graffiti was because he had already begun the habbit with the SW trilogy. Maybe if the SE wouldn't have happened, THX director's cut or Graffiti's Sunset would not have happened.

But again, this was not the point of my "wishing the SW sequels had never happened", my point was that I would have liked to have seen what else ol' George had in him, rather than seeing him become an object of lust for Rick McCallum and an object or worship for a fanbase of rabid SW fans.

Originally posted by: CO


As much as an OOT fan I am, this statement is dead on because of the way Lucas has taken the SW movies in the past 10 years. Would I sacrific ESB for not having to deal with the PT movies invading the OOT? I think I would now, as I am becoming more and more a SW'77 fan in alot of ways cause that is the only movie I can watch and not think about the Saga and all the other BS that has pervaded a GFFA. I haven't watched ROTJ in years cause the OOT DVD is so crappy, and the SE has Hayden at the end of the movie, and everytime I see him next to Alec Guiness I want to throw my remote control through the TV!

No, ESB = no OT, no PT, no SE, no EU, no TV series, instead a high quality transfer of the 1977 Version of SW without the Episode IV in the main crawl and no silly updates? I am starting to lean that way.

Originally posted by: Mike O


Are you being sarcastic? It's difficult to tell with you ...

I wonder why he's so ill-adept with TV?

Originally posted by: Baronlando
Lucas seems to be forgetting his truly terrible track record in television. "It's Star Wars", well so was Ewok Adventure. And Young Indy had a great, amazing roster of talent and still bombed in the ratings. He should understand why the networks would be a little gun shy.
It really is hard to say how Star Wars is perceived these days. I don't think the general population flat out hates the prequels, but I do think they are just getting indifferent to Star Wars in general. I only say that because the same thing happened in the 80s, people move on.

Originally posted by: CO


JR, you are right, we don't have to watch the TV show, just like not reading the EU novels, or even watching the PT movies, and just watch the OOT.......oh wait I can't do that unless I hit zoom twice on my remote control so the image gets more grainy

In all seriousness, I think SW has lost its mystique, and if you want to call me out on that, and tell me to get over, you have every right to do it, but it is a shame Lucas didn't stop at ROTJ in 1983, and I think the SW & George Lucas would have been perceived a bit different.

In many ways the OOT will always be groundbreaking, and to many it is the gold standard when it comes to this genre of movies, as LOTR seems to be the only trilogy that I hear from people that is possibly better, but that is a different argument.

But just think of how Lucas was perceived back in 1983? He was a god to all the SW fans, he was a wiz of Special Effects to the critics, and he was a financial genius for being the only director to ever finance his own movies and end up being a billonaire! I never heard in 1983 that Lucas can't write dialog, he can't direct actors, or that a SW movie was actually laughable.

What I am trying to say is that Lucas was getting TOO much credit, including from fans myself, who did think he was god. Hell, for alot of years I thought he directed all the OOT movies, even though I saw them on VHS 8 zillion times, not to check the end credits once, I just assumed he did everything.

Lucas had a mystique in 1983 the same way President Kennedy has one now, as he is considered a great US President by many yet he was only President for 2 1/2 years and never completed his term. He had a mystique the same James Dean and Marilyn Monroe had before they died prematurely, as fans just remember them in the prime, and never got to see them later in life if they were 60 or 70 years old, they will be remembered for their youth.

SW now to me is just another series, and I don't blame Lucas anymore in some respects, you can't just keep making magic with one subject, just look at any movie series, eventually it gets stale. Peter Jackson has a chance to make the Hobbit, and I say to him, "Don't do it!!!" Leave LOTR trilogy as is, its a classic, it sits up there with the OOT as a great set of movies, sometimes more is less.

Originally posted by: DarthPoppy
When will Lucas learn that, regarding Star Wars, less is more? The franchise was best remembered before the Dark Times, before the SEs and PT. I fear these TV shows will end up making the PT look like the OT. The backstory of Pod Racing is all we need to gaurantee that future generations will look at those of us who loved Star Wars in 1977 as lunatics, since all that they will be able to see is the SuperUltimateLastFinalLucasOnHisDeathBedEdition of Star Wars which will now be numbered Episode 104, as the 100 TV episodes will take place between Episode III and Star Wars. Whatever is left of Lucases legacy and good name will be buried on the shelves of the Library of Congress I am afraid.

Originally posted by: DarthPoppy
Again, we will see how the ratings do; I don't think we have enought data about how many people actually saw the later PT films (TPM was huge, it had everyone who ever liked Star Wars going, and we brought our skeptical wives and friends--they didn't come with us to see AotC or RotS!). Yes they were very successful movies, but just go and look over at TF.N (back in the days when the movies were out) and see all the people who posted that they saw RotS, literally, 38 times or 50 times, etc. Such fanatical devotion of repeat viewers carries no wait in the TV market where one time market share is all the matters. It will be very interesting to see what kind of ratings these shows garner and will go along way in answering how popular the post-PT Star Wars franchise actually is.