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Jedi Master DJR

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Members
Join date
31-Mar-2003
Last activity
3-Apr-2010
Posts
475

Post History

Post
#43449
Topic
Changes in 2004 DVDs
Time
Quote

Originally posted by: mverta
First of all, jimbo is having a great time stirring you guys up and watching you foam at the mouth...

But the real reason I wanted to post is to point out what I think is an uncharacteristically cavalier attitude towards the audio changes...

In addition to being a professional film composer, I have worked for 12 years as a feature film sound designer and mixer, so I have a great appreciation for the advances we've made in sound reproduction, and imaging (or matrixing options, like 5.1), as well as the huge dynamic range increase that digital affords us, etc..

But for a feature film audio mix, the internal balance between dialogue, music, and effects is crucial to the overall perception of the drama. Turn the music down too far, and the impact of a scene can be all but obliterated. There has been a trend towards louder sound design vs music in recent years, partially because the new capabilities allow for more punch and viceral effect ("kids love the boom," as we say) as well as the fact that as film music has gotten worse, directors and mixers have come to trust it less... few composer's music can truly stand up to presence-scrutiny as well as John Williams' for example.

Spielberg (an avid music fan) always gets his mixes right... he has a tremendous amount of confidence in John Wiliams, and in the hands of mixer Gary Rydstrom, this has led to some of the most impactful moments in film history. This is the same sort of internal balance that the ORIGINAL Star Wars mixes featured: they were very "music-heavy", and more powerful for it. The THX Definitive Editions changed the internal balance between the Dialogue, Music and Effects, to showcase the new sound design, most likely, at the expense of the most powerful aspect of audio drama, the music. It's easy to hear, especially in certain scenes, like the inside of the sandcrawler... but few champion the preservation of that original mix sensibility.

We are afforded very little opportunity as an audience, to ever "A/B" a mix with more/less music, but it is an experience that forever changes your understanding of what creates drama in a soundtrack. People by music CD's and go to concerts all the time; very few people drive around listening to sound effects. That's because they aren't particularly interesting or dramatic. Now.. in an overall soundtrack, great sound design SHOULD be able to stand on its own somewhat, and the best mixes perform a continual dance between sound design and music, letting each one take center stage when appropriate.. but again, it's about balance.

Everyone here defends obvious character compromises, like Han shooting first, or rails against the gratuitous, poorly executed CG of Jabba the Hutt... and "Better Sound" sure sounds easier to get behind, until you realize that terms like 5.1, "louder", cleaner, "truer to the source", etc., are meaningless when held up to the ultimate factor, the internal balance. I, for one, don't even mind the improvements to the sound design.. all I care about is that the balance is restored.. for it was that balance that made the heroic moments heroic, and the epic themes powerful.

Mike


I agree with you totally, EVERYTHING that can should be preserved, including the internal balance on the soundtrack. Let's hoping that Ben Burt and GL does, after Leia's blaster sounding like a rifle in the swinging scene, etc...

Post
#43448
Topic
BOYCOTT (the 2004 OT SE DVD release)
Time
Quote

Originally posted by: jimbo
It costs $2.00 not $0.20 to replicate a dual layer DVD. That is cheap but the cost of mastering the original versions in DVD quaity will cost at least $20,000. Most people are going to buy the DVDs originals or not so it would probably be an unnessessary cost.



Not if they release them seperately with different specials features, like LOTR. He can just release this boxset first and then a few months later the OT, with the UE being like the LOTR EE and the OT like the LOTR OT most likely. And it would make up the difference, no doubt whatsoever. Not to mention, jimbo, do you know exactly how many people who made the preorders KNOW that the OT won't be there? Perhaps they do, because I only remember it being mentioned at a few select media outlets like FOX News.
Post
#43280
Topic
Changes in 2004 DVDs
Time
Quote

Originally posted by: GundarkHunter
What's a desicgn? So much for it being educated.


Or for being mature with each other.

Quote

Originally posted by: bigmikeisajedi[/iSelling CGI Lucas porn to everyone who doesnt care one bit what they get just as long as they get it.



I take this from a longer post that I mostly agree with, but this I thought I would point out as bitterness or an example? Because while I like the OT too, I don't consider the SE just some kind of CGI Lucas porn and I think an explanation should be in order. I know as a moderate on the issue it CAN be very offending. (I say this only in the hope we don't lose a single signature over a misunderstanding and/or the media supporting GL will not use a quote like that one in the months to come.)

May the Force be with us All.
Post
#43176
Topic
Changes in 2004 DVDs
Time
Only problem is, the final version was the original version. Anything ever made from the original version of a movie that has hit theaters is a "director's cut", that is the truth. And perhaps, if all we have seen before were 'rough cut' versions, including the special editions, then perhaps I can have the money I've spent on Star Wars sent back to me since it must have been a free trial, it wasn't like I was actually buying Star Wars, I was buying Rough Cut. And perhaps I should publish my own Star Wars novel without GL's permission, since like I said, he doesn't own Star Wars at all, he owns rough cuts.
Post
#43087
Topic
Changes in 2004 DVDs
Time
Quote

Originally posted by: HotRod
Nearly every single thread on here has someone fucking moaning about Star Wars...

Simple...If you don't like what George is doing, don't buy it!

If like me you love Star Wars, and are just happy with any kind of DVD, be happy!!!

One day we'll all be dead!!!


Well, this is a site where we petion him, perhaps you shouldn't be here if you don't ever expect GL to be criticized?

(I look over admiringly at my huge collection of Star Wars books, my Star Wars Trading Cards, my action figues, and the 6 copies I have of the trilogy.)

Post
#43080
Topic
Okay, what did we LIKE about the Special Editions?
Time
Quote

Originally posted by: Luke Skywalker
isnt it possible to make han perhaps step over the tail...
or hell put a cut scene in showing a wide shot of the conversation while he is behind jabba and then go back when he is in front of him.... u know what i mean...
just cut that part where he goes behind him totally out...



I agree, something along those lines. Because even though according to the Han Solo books by A.C. Crispin and in the ANH SE in itself that Han and Jabba are pretty friendily all things considered, Jabba wouldn't let you step on his tail without possibily getting shot.
Post
#43077
Topic
Changes in 2004 DVDs
Time
Quote

Originally posted by: jimbo
Yes its to make money. He has the right to make money. Hes not forcing you to buy them is he. About the original trilogy thing. Most not all of those who prefer the originals are prequals haters. Most of those who prefer the Special Editions like the prequals. He has been hearing there bitching since 1997 and he has learned to ignore it.


In my opinion a sweeping generalization, but that could be accurate. But I don't truly think it is fan moaning at all. I have a theory about why GL wants to release revised versions and not the originals, a very illogical thing to do by the following. Most directors consider their movies to be their "babies" after a sort. GL described his relationship with both trilogies as a "marriage." So that would make you think GL feels like the movies are part of his family. So many here ask, "How can he just throw his old kids to the street for the model son(daughter)?" I have asked the question myself as well. And I believe I have the answer. From statements GL has made he feels the OT trilogy was "abandoned." He honestly feels he didn't do his best for the OT, he and it failed in so many ways. So GL doesn't want to display his "children" that he "abandoned." And in so many ways, that is a sad thing for him. He should not beat himself up over what he and/or what NO one could do. Considering when they were made, he did something so much beyond what anyone knows and really, in a technological to their day, most movies can only try to do the same. So my honest hope for GL is he realize he never "abandoned" anything, they were fine viewed with any amount of perspective. His children then and his new growing kids (in the form of the SE and on) are "timeless" and they should be treated that way, preserved not just in the 70's, 80's, and the 90's, but for the 21st century and beyond. That's my two cents.

Post
#42428
Topic
Changes in 2004 DVDs
Time
Quote

Originally posted by: GundarkHunter
1 & 3 I can agree with off the bat; 2 I'm still not sure about.


Well, this is how I look at it. The scene is not TOO bad between Han and Jabba in ANH if Jabba wasn't so weird looking and had his tail stepped on. So I think really, can GL not go anywhere but up after that? (Since he wants the scene in there forever it seems.)

Post
#42130
Topic
Info: OT Backup Thread
Time

This is the offical thread to discuss one thing and ONE thing only. The backup of the original theatrical editions of the Star Wars trilogy for personal preservation of collections, not for sale or illegal distribution. If that is done by a user, the blame is at their feet.

Now on to the discussion. The first thing I need is an article I remember from here that I have lost the weblink to. Someone here on the site had a link about backing up Star Wars from LD to DVDR and it will be a good starting point to figure out what technology I will need for my LD set to hook up to my computer. Also, any links to backing up VHS or Beta tapes is great.
And, I would consider it on-topic as well if we talk about different images from the the OT for menus, as well as different chapter names and such. (I am leaning toward the chapter names of my Faces LD set, but we shall see.)

Post
#42129
Topic
BOYCOTT (the 2004 OT SE DVD release)
Time
Quote

Originally posted by: Luke Skywalker
congrats on getting the LD's DJR!!
join the club!
hehe



Thank you, I am extremely happy as well. It may also surprise some to say I will be happy to get my SE LDs as well, but have I ever cared?



Anyway, I can see why people want to boycott or at least buy from someone on Ebay. I admit as someone who watches the SE most that it is still tempting, the principle of it. But I think we only risk segmenting ourselves from more potential SW fans. I think more people are likely to join the cause if they see how moderate we have been, how nice to GL and patient. Not that I am saying that people who boycott are fanatical or something, far from it.
Post
#42122
Topic
Changes in 2004 DVDs
Time
Quote

Originally posted by: Luke Skywalker
i dont see why Star Wars fans are going at eachothers throats...
i mean well all like the same movie right?

so what if some people like the OT, SE or the prequels...
its still Star Wars no??


I do agree with that. It is not worth the life it steals from you and other people. (stress)

I mean there are Star Wars fans who think Darth Maul is totally better then Vader, and my hat's off to them because I respect opinions.

Also to jimbo, I am 15 and probably the closest in age as far as members here.




Post
#42114
Topic
Okay, what did we LIKE about the Special Editions?
Time
I guess I"ll steer the ship back on-topic. I liked the sound of Luke's lightsaber turning off when he left the cave the Wampa was in the SE. The windows were good, I think I have already said I liked the new Celebration, though I want Yub Yub preserved of course. I liked the new shot of Obi-Wan's hut, generally the cleaning up of the movies, and the new ANH space battle is awesome.


On another note, I have read somewhere that a user hated Han's line of, "You're a wonderful human being," in the new Jabba scene. Now while I don't mind the scene, I just thought I would bring that up since I thought it was an interesting point. (For myself personally, I thought he was just being sarcastic, but...).

Now what I think would be a good thing to include within this topic would also be, "What changes do we want to see?"
And in that case, fix the screwed up lightsabers in ANH, weird Emperor in ESB, get rid of old Wampa head in ESB, fix lighting problems when characters walk by windows, lightsaber shadows when Luke & Vader fight in ROTJ, stepping on Jabba's tail (since GL will be keeping I suppose), Han shooting first again, make the Falcon move faster when combating the four Ties, Vader's hand movng around when he isn't talking to Tarkin, blacken Vader's red almost see- through eyes in ANH, black R2 head in ANH, etc..