That idea is canon to a lesser extent. Essentially, Pryde was promoted to the rank above Hux on purpose by Kylo. To shame him. But making him a Captain would really rub salt in the wound. I like it.
From the films one can infer that Sith essence transfer works in the sense that your spirit/essence inherently leaves your original body that is killed by specifically another Force sensitive and your spirit/essence goes to, for example, Palpatine’s clone body or Rey’s or Ben’s body 'cause you will it to, Palps knows where those are specifically.
I disagree with the inference, but whatever. Palps says, “Kill me and my spirit will pass into you.” Not “my spirit will pass into my clone”.
Okay… but from what we know about regular essence transfer it’s made quite clear that there are only 2 options:
That is why I’ll always advocate for the Plagueis theory. That he learned a secret that allows him to premeditatedly prepare to expel his own spirit at any point. Again, I have to mention that the novelization makes it clear he somehow possessed a clone before his original body was even killed.
I have to admit I agree with Testing here. The reason Palp’s goes with clones is because their free will can easily be manipulated. He might even be able to will his spirit into them without any killing involved since they’re just a copy of his body. Also, I’m not even sure that there were many powerful Force users left in the galaxy. He resorted to clones as a failsafe in case he dies somehow when Luke denies his request.
I feel as though I disagree with this one. Judging by inferences from the actual movie, Sith essence transfer only works if another Force-sensitive kills him (whereas Darth Vader threw him into the shaft, Rey reflected his lightning at his face - he essentially committed suicide).
Wouldn’t Vader have been possessed then? Just sayin’, I’ve meticulously thought through all of these things and I’ve come to the most reasonable conclusions. In fact, the unaltered novelization makes it a point that Palpatine expelled his spirit before he even died from the fall. Which means there definitely wasn’t any killing involved. It was something more premeditated, which he can activate with his own will at any point. Which in my own novelization I made it be a secret he learned from Plagueis.
I have to admit I agree with Testing here. The reason Palp’s goes with clones is because their free will can easily be manipulated. He might even be able to will his spirit into them without any killing involved since they’re just a copy of his body. Also, I’m not even sure that there were many powerful Force users left in the galaxy. He resorted to clones as a failsafe in case he dies somehow when Luke denies his request.
Also I really like changing Kylo’s line to “we can stop Palpatine” -
So I made a quick mockup. Is it worth trying to iron out the new line? https://streamable.com/4tms6i
It actually makes it sound like Kylo is against him, against the Sith (which is what we want). We’re told killing Palpatine results in Sith spirit transfer, and we learn later Palpatine wants to be killed, so saying “we’ll kill him” doesn’t explicitly mean he’s working against him. Changing this line would avoid any confusion, it makes it very clear Kylo doesn’t want to play into Palpatine’s hands, he wants to stop whatever he’s planning (and take over his fleet).
It’s also a more seductive way to present it to Rey, who set out on her mission “to stop what we both know is coming…”. It makes it sound almost reasonable to join forces with the Supreme Leader to stop the return of the Sith, instead of the original’s “let’s become super evil together, you know what you need to do”.
How about everyone here praises this line until Hal accepts it? Lol.
I just want to address something about the pitched edit of removing the mention of Rey having a vision of both herself and Kylo Ren on the Sith throne. She didn’t have that specific vision at the beginning of the movie, she only had it when she touched the dagger on Pasaana.
It’s not shown on screen, and therefore is irrelevant. When Rey says she had a vision, the audience instantly should think of the one from the beginning of the movie since, ya know, it was shown. In fact, there is no proof that they ever recorded footage of both Rey and Kylo on the throne. So tbh, I’m not even sure what they were smoking when they wrote that line for Rey.
So I made a quick mockup. Is it worth trying to iron out the new line? https://streamable.com/4tms6i
Man, I love this. Maybe he doesn’t even know how they’ll stop Palpatine yet (essence transfer crap), but he wants to try it with her.
Sounds good. I’ll just have to head canon an explanation for how they can kill him together 😃
I’m assuming that you are also removing the “and” from Rey’s “and me” as well?
After all, when they do team up they do seem poised to try it anyway.
The difference is that they were going to do it as Jedi. To quote Palpatine, “Your hatred, your anger, you want to kill me. That is what I want.” That seems to be the requirement for transfer, one which they might fall under as Kylo and Rey standing side-by-side rather than Ben and Rey.
Regardless, removing Kylo’s fixation with becoming a Sith is more than enough for me.
Mmm, yeah, while not required, snipping the portion of the line in the hangar about “taking the throne” together could be good.
At that rate, you might as well scrub that whole line since Kylo already heard the whole “Kill me, and my spirit will pass into you” stuff. Not that he doesn’t want to kill Palpatine, but maybe he is aware of some way to defeat him without getting possessed (ie magical dyad powa).
The line replacement I liked went something like “Together, nothing will stand in our way.”
I couldn’t find it so I did it myself real quick (maybe I did this on my own originally…)
“And” being cut might be noticeable to some who are aware of the change, but I honestly believe your hypothetical first time viewer, or people who just haven’t seen the movie since release, wouldn’t even notice this change. I moved “Me” up a few frames earlier, and I think the slight shift helps sell it as well.
I like how Finn assumes it’s Ren with such conviction, only to be left not knowing what to say after Rey says it was her. I think this is the simplest way to handle it.
Cross-posting from the general thread, Hal would you consider this for a change in V2?
Idk, I guess it’s all right with me, but has anyone dissented?
Not that I’ve seen. Everyone has been ecstatic about it. It makes the vision worse for her because not even Kylo is seen on the throne (who we know is pretty messed up).
Also…
Remember that the final conflict in the film is Rey alone being tempted to take the throne, while Ben has already had his redemption. So her vision of “Kylo and me on the Throne” would’ve already been negated the moment Kylo turns to the light. It makes so much more sense for Rey’s vision to only be about herself on the throne, then by the end it would actually seem like the vision might become reality.
To add to that, that change is receiving universal praise because of how subtle and yet effective it is. If that changes your mind in any way, Hal.
Wow, I really couldn’t tell that “and” was supposed to be there. It just looks like she’s opening her mouth! This is such a great subtle change.
I agree. Even if you weren’t trying to overhaul Kylo’s character it’s a straight-up improvement over the original. Because now it’s like this: even the father-killing bad guy wasn’t “bad” enough to be on the throne. But Rey was. That hits hard.
Too bad Hal isn’t interested.
Really wish “All the Sith” line was still in there though.
Agreed. If we’re going to keep “As all the Sith live in me” might as well include this as well.
Some already made a version of that scene where Rey just says “Me.” All you have to do is to snip “And” from the audio channel it’s on. And you don’t even have to change her mouth movements at all. It just looks like she is opening her mouth to talk.
Do you know where this is available perhaps? For some reason I had a hard time separating them.
All of that is impossible for me to do, unfortunately. In fact, I struggled to even create that, which is what I think you’re “feeling”. My editing software loves creating audio pops and visual anomalies when splicing thing together.
Besides that, I’m not sure I agree that the line is felt when absent. Maybe it’s because you’re expecting it. On text at least, it makes sense.
“I had a vision. Of the throne of the Sith. And who was on it. And me.”
So Rey currently claims with Finn that she saw both Kylo and herself on the Sith throne in her vision. This is wrong. Only Rey is seen on the throne in both the theatrical release and Ascendant. And the vision in Ascendant, in my interpretation, represents the two dark paths she could end up on (either with Kylo or the Sith).
Luckily this can be corrected by simply removing Finn’s line: “Ren?”
The only other thing that would need to be done to undo Kylo’s character regression would be to replace his line “We’ll kill him, and take the throne.” I’m still having trouble finding a suitable replacement for that.
What’s your version of that moment, in your rewrite?
Genuinely curious about this as well. I kept it the same in my rewrite because I couldn’t think of anything else that made much sense.
EDIT: Maybe just “I’m a Jedi” instead of all of them. But then the whole “1000 generations live in you now” doesn’t necessarily relate to the line.
Ah well. I just figured since we were modifying obscure/inconsequential lines such as “I never lied to you” and “She’s not on Jakku, she’s gone” for better continuity with TLJ that we might consider it for one of the main characters as well.
It wouldn’t take much to undo Kylo’s character regression, but I suppose I could discuss it more over there.
Random thing I wanted to bring up: in Rey’s conversation with Finn, she claims that she saw herself and Kylo on the throne. This is completely false according to what we saw earlier in the film. Yes, the new vision we have shows Kylo, but he is clearly not on the throne with her. So instead of saying “And me” she should be saying “Just me”.
This also ties in with the idea that we really should be making it so that Kylo has no interest in the Sith throne. In TLJ he clearly wants to create something new with Rey, and we should stick with that for better continuity. Instead, he should just be after commandeering the fleet. So at the very least we should remove the backend of the following line: “We’ll kill him, and take the throne.”
With those two simple modifications Kylo becomes more of an anti-hero, like Sherlock said. He clearly is just playing along with Palpatine, and wants nothing to do with him besides his fleet because of all the uprisings around the galaxy.
Welcome!
The real problem is the lip synchronization. There’s honestly not a whole lot you can do with those lines since we can clearly see their faces.
Characters with masks are much easier to replace dialogue for.
It’s a sunsRISE, Hal. Ya know, The Rise of Skywalker? Lol.
Semantics aside, I wonder if it was always intended to be one though. Maybe the novelization retconed it to be a sunrise instead of a sunset.
In the film itself is very clearly a sunrise.
Tell that to Dat SW Guy, I agree with you. He’s the one doing the visual effects.
What? I don’t see how that’s relevant to DSWG at all. You said you weren’t sure if it was intended to be a sunrise. I was responding to you. It definitely was.
Well from what I understand DSWG believes it to be a sunset even in the film. I never was convinced that it was a sunset - I was simply pondering something about the filmmaking process.
Anyways, in my second response there I was just pointing out that he is the one who needs convincing, not me.
It’s a sunsRISE, Hal. Ya know, The Rise of Skywalker? Lol.
Semantics aside, I wonder if it was always intended to be one though. Maybe the novelization retconed it to be a sunrise instead of a sunset.
In the film itself is very clearly a sunrise.
Tell that to Dat SW Guy, I agree with you. He’s the one doing the visual effects.
It’s a sunsRISE, Hal. Ya know, The Rise of Skywalker? Lol.
Semantics aside, I wonder if it was always intended to be one though. Maybe the novelization retconed it to be a sunrise instead of a sunset.