Eh, even though that’s likely true, I don’t mind it. I like that they put him in. But maybe I’m weird like that.
I like Star Wars. What else can I say?
It definitely works for sure. But the end result would be the same with the whole essence transfer cloning shenanigans (if he went around collecting spirits).
If anything, I would imagine collecting all of those spirits would make it all the harder to find a suitable host to latch on to. And I find that to be poetic justice really, that in his greed to gain more and more power, Palpatine suddenly found out that he contained so much power that no vessel could contain him without suffering.
In fact, that is the canon answer pretty much. His transfer was imperfect to the clone body, and the body itself couldn’t contain all those spirits.
I don’t mind it being there, don’t get me wrong. I like the idea that in his spare time in the Empire Palpatine went around collecting Sith spirits from their tombs and merged them with his own for more power.
But as for that being the sole reason he is able to cheat death? Nah. It’s gotta be something he learned from Plagueis (since we know he was the only Sith able to cheat death), and since we already have the essence transfer concept in the film, why not mix that with clones. So he hops from clone to clone, draining the life out of them to survive.
But that’s just my opinion.
Here’s an idea - instead of Kylo being all like “Grrr…I’m a bad guy! I want to kill Palpatine and claim his power! Grrr!” What if we could make him into a kind of anti-hero?
For some reason this is always how I saw his character. I never thought he was teaming up with Palpy/Sith for anything. It confused me when people interpreted it that way. Which is why I hate the line “…and take the throne.” He clearly only cares about the fleet in the context of the rest of the movie.
Also, side note, but just about everything you described about Kylo is how I handled things in my novelization.
Alrighty, no disrespect to the almighty Poppasketti, but his custom Kylo line in Ascendant always sticks out to me like a sore thumb. I bet a first time viewer wouldn’t notice it, but knowing about it only makes it worse. Here’s what I feel is a good alternative to the original’s “I never lied to you”:
So it would go…
Kylo: I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it. I needed you to see it. Who you are. I know the rest of your story. Rey…
Rey: You’re lying.
Kylo: I see them. Your parents were no one. They chose to be. To keep you safe.
I feel like this also helps explain why Rey all of a sudden gets visions of her parents. Kylo could be supplying some of that.
I love what you’ve done with the Han scene. I’m excited to read your manuscript draft, but I’m gonna wait until after I’ve finished my own first.
Thanks! I have modified that scene slightly since that draft. I’ll have to check out yours as well when you’re done (maybe it will even give me some other ideas!) I’ve read through everything you’ve provided thus far.
Yeah I mostly threw it out there because there seems to be a belief here that essence transfer must involve a defenseless person and anger/vengeance. But clearly that isn’t necessarily true, because Palpatine was able to do it with his clones as he died on the Death Star. Otherwise he wouldn’t still be alive. I don’t give a crap about the “all the Sith live in me” hand-waving. So there is more to the ability than what is shown in the film. That’s just my head canon on it all.
Jarbear, the way I explained/understood essence transfer is as follows: essence transfer was a commonly known ability by the Sith, where you have to be killed while defenseless by a target harnessing the dark side for the transfer to succeed. But the form of essence transfer Palpatine learned is extra special, and it was originally discovered by Plagueis. I’d like to refer to it as premeditated essence transfer, where he is capable of expelling his own spirit and sending it into a dormant clone body from just about anywhere. And then obviously the Force ghosts hold his spirit in place at the end, effectively killing him.
Any ideas where that audio could come from though?
The LEGO games are a pathway to many abilities some consider to be… unnatural.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1prfNgpBw0PXN3z6a6d7dwpHbXXsPNO92
Surely there’s something in there.
RogueLeader, could you send me the audio of that Kylo line? “Together, nothing will stand in our way.” I feel like that’s a straight-up improvement over the original.
EDIT: I suppose I could also work on modifying my Kylo line. What audio manipulation would make it sound better? Spoken a bit faster, perhaps?
Can I have a link?
PM sent!
I think the inflection of “You don’t have to say anything” doesn’t fit as smoothly with the rest of the dialogue as “Nothing will stand in our way” does. Like, it carries this attitude that the rest of his monologue doesn’t have, if that makes sense. Though just looking at the dialogue I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it.
Yeah that’s what I was somewhat concerned about. It’s usually hard for me to tell those sorts of things, but I can kinda see what you’re saying. There’s a hint of anger on mine instead of vulnerability, which your line nails.
That said, I do believe this line should be replaced. Preferably with yours. I know Sherlock said something about “oh it’s not worth it because none of it makes sense”, but that’s a kinda pessimistic attitude when it comes to fan editing. Especially since somebody has already expressed how it took them out of the movie (myself included).
Kylo: What Palpatine doesn’t know is that we’re a Dyad in the Force, Rey. Two that are one. Together, nothing will stand in our way.
Hmmm. I really like this one. My one concern is that people might recognize it’s sourced from TFA. That’s why I chose this line, because it is exclusive to the video game. Tell me, is there something wrong with mine besides what I already mentioned?
I think this is a non issue. It doesn’t change the movie and alot of people wouldn’t give it a second thought
It caught me completely off guard and took me out of it, honestly. To be clear, I think this change is not a bad idea, and I think the soul possession should remain, it’s just that the hangar scene should be modified so that this makes more sense. (If that line is not in the nobody version I don’t care as much tho 😄)
Alright, I may have discovered a line that could replace Kylo’s contradictory line here. Not only is Kylo clearly not interested in becoming a Sith (see TLJ), but he also already knows that killing Palpatine with the dark side is no bueno. So the line “We’ll kill him and take the [Sith] throne” makes absolutely no sense from two different angles.
So here is what I propose: https://youtu.be/rRI1ctiFPh8 (audio WIP)
And here it is in text form: “You don’t need to say anything. You know what you need to do. You know.” offers hand
The only downside of replacing this is that Kylo’s affiliations are kinda left up in the air. At least with the other line it’s made clear he doesn’t give a crap about Palpatine, and just wants the fleet for himself. Ah well, at least it’s still clear that he wants Rey to join him.
We already have Palps saying “Weak. Like your parents.” So you could source that word from there. Not sure about the rest unfortunately.
Does anybody know if the new Lego Star Wars game is actually going to have the voice actors return like in TFA? If so, I’m excited for what opportunities that opens up.
Agreed. It’s not like we ever see those two elsewhere in the saga. Even if we did, it would likely just be in comics.
I’d say keep what makes the most sense in the context of the film itself, which is Evazan’s arm with a blaster.
I really like those ideas RogueLeader. That she is supposedly too weak to save them and only by doing this will she be strong enough to help out.
It’s like a half truth. She’ll be strong enough to do anything, but she also won’t be in control.
And also for what it’s worth, I disagree with several key changes that Hal has been insistent upon, and I understand his reasoning nonetheless. So while of course it ultimately comes down to him, I have mostly seen great arguments in favour of sherlock’s suggestions, and, after all, it’s just an alternative version to a greatly flawed movie
I think that’s mostly why I disagree with Sherlock a lot. I don’t see this movie as “greatly flawed”, but rather frustratingly close to being just right. Unfortunately for myself it would seem most agree with Sherlock’s mindset as well.
This difference in thinking is definitely causing a bit of an issue here. V1 was very subtle in its changes. It was made with the intention to improve upon what was already there.
But with v2 people want more and more excised from the film from what I’ve seen. I disagree with that, and I’d like to hear how Hal feels about the direction of this project in that regard.
I just don’t see evidence of it in this story.
Correct. You don’t, but I do.
But really, I suggested removing and/or changing…one line of dialogue? I’d hardly call that “a radical path,” or “removing tons of different portions of the film.” It’s a change that would benefit the direction that we’ve already been taking the movie, so it’s not like I’m trying to rock the boat here with some wacky new angle that I think we should all adopt. I’m arguing for thematic clarity, as themes are important parts of storytelling. And I figure, yeah, I could remove that line; but maybe other people would want it changed too. I didn’t realize that removing this one line was crossing a line, after 100+ other changes have already been made.
I was referring to what has been suggested by you before. This was simply the culmination of what I’ve previously witnessed.
And to be honest, I still have no idea what theme you’re referring to. The “dark side” isn’t a very clear theme. Whereas dealing with fear has been present throughout the entire saga, and makes sense imo given Rey’s actions.
In the end, this is Hal’s decision. I’ll just have to keep my copy of v1 handy and try to merge the two versions if stuff like this starts getting through. I didn’t want to have to do that (since it will be imperfect), but looks like I might have to.
I brought it up to prove that it’s a fair interpretation. I’m not saying your interpretation isn’t fair, so I’d appreciate it if you didn’t say that about mine. We’re never going to agree on this. That’s fine. Film/storytelling is art, and everybody can interpret their own side of things out of it.
I guess all I’m trying to do here is stop us from proceeding down a radical path in this edit. Hal’s edits usually don’t stray too much from the originals in regard to changes. I’ve gotta be honest, but you lean a lot on the side of removing tons of different portions of the film. I don’t like that because I’m super bad at video editing, so putting excised content back into the movie is pretty hard and never turns out right. Whereas in your case, you’re clearly capable of doing these changes to your own personal edits and such. So I guess it’s hard for me to understand why you so vehemently advocate for these things.
I’m definitely not saying that everything needs to revolve around my needs, but what I am saying is that there is a line that we shouldn’t cross with a basic edit like this, and I feel like this would be crossing that. This change supports your personal interpretation of Rey’s arc, while making it impossible for others to be had.
The thing is, none of that is done to protect her friends, as you claim. On Pasaana, why didn’t she tell them, “We have to leave, now! Kylo is coming!” She just…wandered 100 feet away, as if that would hide them from Kylo? On Endor, she had no clue that Kylo would show up; “they didn’t have time to wait” because the film gave them an arbitrary 16 hour deadline until Doomsday. And on Ahch-To, she doesn’t mention her friends even once. She just said “I saw myself on the Sith Throne. I’m scared of my own powers. I’m going to hide here so that I can’t fall prey to the Dark Side.” She goes to Exegol to face Palpatine, not to protect her friends. (If she’s trying to keep them out of harm’s way, why does she provide them directions to get to the battle?) If you want to make an argument that she’s trying to protect her friends, you can; but there’s no evidence in the film that supports that beyond speculation and wild (re)interpretation.
It’s not really wild reinterpretation when the entire (unaltered, I might add) novelization supports the interpretation I’m suggesting. At pretty much every turn in the novelization Rae Carson is suggesting that Rey is distancing herself from her friends to keep them safe. And for myself, that makes the most sense.
She confronted Kylo on Pasaana so her friends can escape, and she knew Kylo was in possession of the dagger so he can track them to Endor. As for Ahch-To, she is afraid of falling prey to the dark side because of what it means about her. I need you to understand the difference. If she turns to the dark side, she imagines that she would be abandoned by her newfound family where she found belonging, and possibly hurt them as well. She is distancing herself from them all because she thinks that’s what they ought to do with her anyways. To quote TestingTheTest, it’s her “toxic, core belief.” Being abandoned (whether intentionally or not) at a young age can kinda mess you up that way.
EDIT: And obviously Rey opened up the way for her friends to Exegol because she can’t take down an entire fleet. That’s just dumb.
A rough draft of this project is now available. I haven’t read through the entire thing myself yet, so there are bound to be some issues here and there. However, I wanted to get this out there for anyone that is interested.
Not sure if I’m allowed to leave a link to the entire thing on here, so for now let’s just do this by PM.
In other words, make the climax of the film be an internal character struggle with a foundation on previous established themes, rather than an external blackmail…thing.
How is the “dark side” a theme? Confronting fear is a theme. “Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi.”
Rey has found her belonging in her friends in the Resistance. She is scared of herself, that she won’t be good enough, and that she will hurt those friends either physically or emotionally. So it makes perfect sense that Palps would use that against her to try and turn her to the dark side. And as I said previously, it is one of the overall themes of the saga itself. Doing stupid stuff to save those closest to you. Obviously the correct thing to do would be to let go of that fear, and not give in to it. In Rey’s case, to deny Palpatine and force him to attack, which would justify her attacking back.
But she’s never scared of losing her friends. She even abandons them at like three different occasions in the movie without a second thought. I don’t buy it.
Bruh. What? She abandons them precisely because she doesn’t want to put them in danger.
- She doesn’t want them to come along on her adventure because “It’s too dangerous”
- She doesn’t want Finn following her into the desert when she confronts Kylo for the same reason
- Yet again on Endor, does the same thing.
She is afraid of herself because she is worried about hurting her friends.
Crap, I forgot about Endor. That’s another one!
- Walking away as they’re entering Ochi’s ship for no reason. (She just had a feeling.)
- Leaving the Chewie Rescue Op to get the Dagger (because she had a feeling).
- Leaving them on the shore of Endor and taking the skimmer at high-tide (because she was impatient)
- Running away to Ahch-To (because, as she explicitly explains to Luke, she was scared of herself taking the Sith Throne, not because she wanted to protect her friends)
All of these are because she wants to put herself in danger instead of her friends. She also didn’t “just have a feeling” on Pasaana, she sensed Kylo approaching. Impatience on Endor? Nah, she knew Kylo was on the move and it was only a matter of time before he caught up to them. She did it to get the hell out of there before he did to protect them.
Running away to Ahch-To would make even more sense with your proposed change of her blasting Finn with lighting. She is afraid of herself because she could hurt her friends. She could have already killed Chewie previously if it weren’t for luck, and now has just proven that she could easily kill her friends in person.
And even if the film was about “letting others have some control,” do we really want that other person to be Emperor “Darth Sidious” Sheev Palpatine, the conglomeration of all Sith past and present, and Lord of all Evil?? Just as long as he doesn’t invade Poland, amiright?
When did I ever say that was the right choice? When she confronts her fear, the right thing to do would be to deny his request, because in the end the galaxy is capable of saving the day without her. Her friends should be the ones in control of themselves.