Damn I forgot about that unhinged post lmao. Honestly it reads like a sarcastic copypasta. But if they were being serious then that’s one sad, pathetic human being.
Yup I think that’s the placement most people were considering for edits. I can see how your colors might match a bit, but it’s hard to tell without comparing them side-by-side
Would you mind sending me a link to a downloadable version of that scene? It’ll be nice to have it around in case somebody ever creates a purely extended version of AotC. Especially if they decide not to include this scene from Kenobi for some reason. I’d make sure you got credit for your work on this.
Absolutely wonderful stuff! All that’s missing is the color re-grade. I think somebody on this thread already managed that pretty nicely.
Wouldn’t the second Death Star also have a magnetic field, then? And obviously this voice modulation effect doesn’t appear in ROTJ.
To create true balance, the Force would make a Chosen Two, someone in the Light who struggles with the Dark, and someone in the Dark who struggles with the Light.
Yeah, this is exactly what I was getting at. There is everything in the trilogy itself already to make this a compelling idea, the problem is that Ahch-To focuses so hard on being a Palpatine. And also, like you pointed out, Rey solos Palpatine and Ben dies. I suppose you could still argue that since they are one in the same that Ben helps out somehow, and especially that he’ll help out in the future. Think about it, Rey would continue to struggle with the dark no matter what. But Ben put his life-Force into Rey, so the Chosen One is no longer two people that are one but truly one person. Rey has life-Force within her created by both the light and dark sides of the Force itself. Conveying that in the moment would be hard, though. Plus, Ben’s ghost might have to go bye-bye to illustrate such a concept, which is kinda sacrilegious in my books lol.
Yeah, perhaps I shouldn’t have responded to Strange’s idea to begin with since Hal already gave them a firm “no”. My only purpose in responding how I did was to convey how, from my perspective at least, this idea is impossible logistically given what this film has for Rey’s arc. So Hal’s “no” answer is understandable even beyond the fact that this edit has cemented itself already. At a fundamental level, Rey’s arc in this movie is about her discovering an unsettling fact about herself and struggling with the dark side and her sense of self-worth because of it. There’s no way to undo that unless you delete massive swathes of this movie. But then you’d be better off merging TLJ and TROS into one, which isn’t the goal of Ascendant.
With Rey Nobody, this dark secret is that she’s fated to kill Palps and take the Sith throne. That works, but misses out on the idea of not being defined by a crappy relative, which is what I like about the OT. Plus, Rey Palpatine makes Kylo and Rey rhyme in a way congruent with the concept of the dyad - Kylo looks up to his grandfather, and Rey wants nothing to do with hers. I toyed with the idea of Rey being created by Palpatine’s influence over the midichlorians, but that overcomplicates everything since Anakin would be dragged into that discussion and everybody in the saga would be related to each other in a really strange way.
Honestly, the only alternative Rey background story that I think could work decently is that there is a prophesied Sith chosen one created by the dark side itself as Anakin was by the light. But the final movie in a saga is a weird place to introduce such an idea.
EDIT: But that’s not anything I’m suggesting! Ascendant v5 is good where it’s at.
Within the context of this story, having Rey actually be a part of the Skywalker bloodline would be handing her the conclusion of her character’s journey on a silver platter far too soon. As much as Rey Palpatine sucks in a lot of ways, you do have to admit that the concept of the Skywalker twins readily accepting the offspring of their arch-enemy as their own is quite emotional. It’s the only thing I can think of that feels Star Warsy without retreading old ground or overcomplicating things - and believe me, I’ve given a lot of thought to this!
Hal, I’m still a little confused on where exactly Kylo’s line about the dagger is supposed to go. Is it replacing: “Remember them. See them!”? If you could indicate what would be replaced, then I could see about generating some options as for what he could say.
Previous attempts at that idea made it so Leia is giving her life-Force to be channeled through Rey into Kylo. This would explain how Rey is able to heal a fatal wound without dying like Ben. But you’ve taken another approach, actually, making it abundantly clear that Leia is summoning Han from the netherworld of the Force and the effort of that is what kills her. I think that’s a really cool idea, as well. The only (slight) problem with the idea is Ben’s line of “You’re just a memory” since in this case Ben isn’t hallucinating and his dad really is there with him because of Leia’s sacrifice.
After finally having some time to test it myself, I do agree that pacing-wise the movie works much better without that scene. It’s too short without all of the awful Kijimi stuff so it just feels disjointed. So the only option would be something like you suggested, Hal - an AI line which goes something like “Why pick me as general? I gotta tell you, I don’t really know how to do this…”
Not that you likely care, but the reason why they went with the whole “ciphers” thing is to give Luke a reason for being unable to read the entirety of the Jedi texts himself. He DOES in fact read as much of them as possible, as he is able to. He jots down the decoded text for reference, and these are his “notes”. The deleted caretaker village sequence, which is canon, confirms that he read at least some of it. This is why Yoda jokes about them not being page-turners, because it was an extremely complicated process to decode them. And why Luke doesn’t give him an excuse like “I tried to read them” because we already know how Yoda would have responded to that.
EDIT: As for why the ancient Jedi coded their texts in the first place? Maybe they were just overly protective of their secrets. Or maybe the Sith were at large at that time (no rule of two) and they needed to protect them.
Yeah, it would start with the shot of Poe looking concerned (just after he stops talking) and Rose saying in the background: “Listen, it’s on every channel.” Then Merry translates the message to everybody - “The Resistance is dead. The Sith flame will burn. All worlds, surrender or die. The Final Order begins.” Seeing as how the previous scene ends with a transmission between Palps and Pryde, it makes sense that this would be the next step he takes.
Fair points, Burbin. I do agree that there is an implication at the very least that Poe is meant to step up as some sort of leader in TLJ. But it’s unclear if that means he’d actually be THE general. Take a look at the DoTF script. It’s clear that if Carrie Fisher had been alive during the recording of Episode IX that she would have remained in charge of the Resistance. Sure, she might have given Poe some extra duties, but I doubt those would be significantly different than those somebody like D’Acy has. Which is why I’d say there’s still an argument to be made here for the sake of clarity.
For one thing, the scene wouldn’t involve any mention of Kijimi in the way I envision it being cut. It would just be about how Palpatine is threatening the galaxy with a generic threat of destruction if they don’t stand down and Poe is acting general. But then the problem would be how it may be too short of a scene.
What makes you think the AI line wouldn’t work there? Just not enough space?
That’s actually a very fair point about character-centric scenes.
The main reason why I thought it necessary to reinstate is because without it, it’s not entirely clear why Poe is suddenly in charge of the entire Resistance. D’Acy has seniority over him if you were to follow the chain of command. Connix was also technically a better pick over him since she wasn’t a spice smuggler. It ties in with the theme of the movie to have it directly stated that Leia specifically chose Poe to become general. It’s like her insistence on training Rey despite her lineage. Leia is able to look deeper within people to gauge their worth.
Let me put it like this: fundamentally, it toys with your suspension of disbelief to exclude this scene. As the audience, we of course expect Poe to be in charge of the Resistance because he’s our main character. But when you step back and think about it, it makes zero sense for a hotshot pilot to be given control of the last hope of the galaxy. Especially over more qualified candidates who have spent their lives being military tacticians.
But if you don’t think it necessary, that’s fine. Another thing I’ll add to the list on the other thread 😉
Yeah, I’ve made wayyyy to many posts in this thread over the past week so I don’t blame you for missing it. But this is just going to be an Ascendant+ edit now. The only difference in Rey’s backstory will be that Palpatine didn’t know she existed while he was hunting for his escapee “son” (because let’s be honest, why SHOULD he know about a young child - she was presumably born on Jakku). He hunts down Rey’s father, they hide her with Unkar out of desperation to keep her a secret, Palps finds out his son cannot use the Force (as the novelization states) and orders him terminated. But Ochi has a vision of Rey when he kills Rey’s father. So he was on his way back to Exegol to show Palpatine the dagger’s vision before he gets trapped in the sand cave.
This makes Ochi’s actions actually make sense. Previously, he doesn’t think to search around Niima Outpost for Rey before blasting off in his ship with her parents. Or notice the fact that his primary target is screaming on the surface below. But if he doesn’t know that he’s even looking for a young girl, just a grown clone of Palpatine, then all of this makes sense. It also allows Palpatine to claim that he never wanted her dead, because he never takes any direct action against her. Sure, he sent Kylo after her, but he could argue he knew that Rey would kill him and become stronger. Whereas a young child Rey wouldn’t be able to defend herself against a Sith assassin.
I do think it kinda works better if he’s trying to put them at odds with one another rather than join together. Only one can become “all the Sith” by inheriting his spirit. Especially because Rey’s vision can only possibly show Daisy on the throne, not along with Kylo. Even though they refer to such a thing in the original film, no such footage exists.
So it’s probably best to stick with the idea that only the strongest bloodline can take the throne. How exactly Palpatine’s dialogue could convey that in this scene without spoiling Rey’s heritage early is possibly worth considering.
Yup. It’s just easier to head cannon that the atmosphere on Exegol was so complicated to navigate that if a ship gets too large it can’t rise up on its own or it would get disintegrated by lightning. But if there are ton of massive ships rising at once then they take the heat off each other.
Yes, you’re correct. The only reason why I have a problem with the concept is that it would have made more sense to launch like 10+ of them at that time - there are literally hundreds of them there (perhaps in the thousands) and it’s not like all of them were fixed overnight. They could have launched a small batallion and threatened to destroy key worlds like Coruscant if people tried to stop the rest.
Yeah, but then you have to explain how the heck a single Final Order ship was able to leave Exegol without the rest of them.
Hal, I’m not an expert editor, but I’m pretty sure the scene could start with the shot which is on Poe and Rose says something along the lines of: “It’s on every channel!” In the background.
I’ll probably end up doing this:
“He learned of a little girl he was supposed to take from Jakku, to the Emperor. The dagger exposed Rey."
This then explains why he’s going back to Exegol even if he already has a direct line of communication with Palpatine to transmit this news through (as evidenced by him getting the order to kill her father).
If it’s just the dagger giving Ochi visions of a girl on Jakku after killing her parents, then the Emperor would need to hold it himself to verify the nature of all of it as fact. But when Ochi never returns, he is left to assume that his granddaughter really does exist, especially after sensing her in TFA/TLJ.
As I stated on the Ascendant thread, this then blends harmoniously with a new Kylo line to Rey along the lines of: “The dagger showed you what happened to your parents, didn’t it?” So the dagger acts as a sort of family tracking agent upon coming in contact with somebody’s biological material. When Rey picks it up, she is shown the final moments of her parents. When Ochi stabs her father, he is shown his daughter.
- Undetermined about a potential line for Kylo to suggest that the dagger “revealed” to Rey her parents’ fate at the hands of Ochi, to support our change for the dagger to be a mystical revelatory device rather than Rey sensing “horrible things” it has done.
I’d love to take a look at this because it would coincide quite nicely with an idea I have going on in the other thread - the dagger being capable of revealing secrets to people.
Any ideas for what this line would look like and where it would be placed?
As an aside, were you able to take a look at reinstating that brief Poe and Rose scene, Hal? The one where it’s revealed that Leia chose Poe specifically to be the new general. I think that’s essential to reinstate seeing as how Leia probably knows about Poe’s spice smuggling days. It ties in with the whole compassion theme surrounding her character and investing in more unconventional people.
Yes, that is what this is now. Stuff that might take skeptics out of the movie, but casual fans really wouldn’t bat an eye at.
As for the Poe and Finn scene, I think I’ve solved it:
“He was going to Exegol with Ochi of Bestoon.”
“Why was Ochi going there?”
“He learned of a little girl he was supposed to take from Jakku, to the Emperor.”
This definitely doesn’t conflict with anything, as even if Ochi learned about Rey somehow shortly after murdering her parents (perhaps the dagger showed him this?) he then proceeds to die in the sinking fields, so the secret stays buried with him.
The other thing is that this makes WAY more sense than Ascendant. If Ochi knew he was supposed to take Rey from Jakku, then why the heck was he going back to Exegol with D-0, like Finn is saying? That doesn’t make any sense. But if he just learned about her, then it makes sense he’d need to go back to Exegol to report this recent development to Palpatine before proceeding with anything.
EDIT: Heck, I could even fill in some of the empty ADR space that Ascendant leaves us to make this idea more clear - “He learned of a little girl he was supposed to take from Jakku, to the Emperor. He needed new orders.”
Oh, and I should clarify that the reason I think this Rey background change necessary is because in order to fit in the Vader duel and Luke scene I have to remove 2 instances of Palpatine reminding Kylo and the audience that he wants her dead. At that point, it’s best to just play into the idea that there is some level of truth to him never wanting her dead.
Immediately after Palpatine reveals her true nature to Kylo, the audience can assume that Palps tells Kylo that should he fail in killing Rey, that she will kill him instead and inherit what he could have had. This is reflected in another updated Kylo line: “Palpatine wants us to fight” instead of “Palpatine wants you dead.”
So the premise is that Palpatine wants them to fight each other so the strongest bloodline becomes his heir. Granted, this will never be explicitly stated since I have no intentions of further modifying Kylo’s reveal scene for this edit.
That would take me out of both of those respective scenes. I think it’s gotta be a voice for 2 reasons:
I think the concept I’ve got in my thread works because it’s just after a devastating moment: Chewie’s “death”. We’ve just seen Rey’s reaction to that. It makes sense, structurally, to then watch Kylo battling with his conscience after such a thing (at least, that’s what the audience is meant to believe in that moment). I can think of no better candidate for him to have such a conversation with in that time than Luke.
Ultimately, this idea isn’t going to be in this edit. That’s fine. We can drop it. I’m gonna make sure it’s given proper attention in my thread.
I’ve decided to overhaul this thread into being only a Special Edition of Ascendant. I know there will inevitably be some questions.
The reason I’m doing this is because the original premise behind this edit already bordered between breaking canon and not, so I think I’d be more comfortable remaining within more solid territory. Furthermore, no matter which way I tried to execute this idea, there was always this feeling of things bordering on incest and every single character being related to each other in this entire saga. For example, Leia would have like 4 different possible last names - Organa, Solo, Skywalker, Palpatine.
I’m trying to avoid some of this goofiness.
Instead, this edit will simply be taking the approach of making Rey Palpatine a little less stupid, as well as introducing the Kylo versus Vader fight and the Luke reaching out to Kylo scene. The main way this will be accomplished is by removing Palpatine even knowing about Rey as a child. Instead, he will simply be going after Rey’s father, his “son”. This clears up a lot of Ochi’s questionable antics, like being unable to find Rey and killing the only people who might know where she is. Here is the dialogue I’m currently considering:
Kylo: “It was Palpatine who had your parents taken. Your father had escaped him. But he soon learned your father was a powerless failure. So he gave the order.”
Kylo: “You know why you were kept a secret.”
Rey (unaltered): “No.”
Kylo (unaltered): “I’ll come tell you.”
And later…
Kylo: “I know how Palpatine discovered you…”
Rey: “Tell me.”
Kylo (unaltered): “Because he saw what you would become. You don’t just have power. You have his power…”
Here is the sequence of events:
Palpatine’s son escapes Exegol -> Palpatine sends Ochi to find him -> His son finds a partner and has Rey -> Rey’s parents pay for her to be watched by Unkar Plutt because Ochi has just found out where they live -> Ochi captures them and flies off, leaving Rey behind -> Palpatine finds out her father doesn’t have the Force -> Ochi kills Rey’s parents since they’re useless to him -> Palpatine has a vision of Rey at some point, discovering her existence
The only problem with this idea is a later exchange between Finn and Poe. I’ll need some help brainstorming around this. Most of the lines are spoken on-screen, so AI lines are somewhat out as a solution.
Finn: “He was going to Exegol with Ochi of Bestoon.”
Poe: “Why was Ochi going there?”
Finn: “To bring the little girl he was supposed to take from Jakku to the Emperor. He wanted her alive.”
Sorry for the double post, but I thought it was worth sharing this exchange from AOTC here:
Padme: “Are you allowed to love? I thought that was forbidden for a Jedi.”
Anakin: “Attachment is forbidden. Possession is forbidden. Compassion, which I would define as unconditional love, is essential to a Jedi’s life. So you might say, that we are encouraged to love.”
I think compassion is the best trait to emphasize because Rey ultimately chooses to become a Jedi. And it also demonstrates that, despite leaving the Jedi path, the lessons Leia learned from her training benefitted her for the rest of her life and impacted her journey significantly.
There’s also the mythological archetype of the nurturing mother whose love and guidance are crucial to the hero’s journey. Which is what I’m trying to shoot for here.
In my own thread, I’ve attached the concept of love to Vader saving Luke, and Ben saving the life of Rey. So more of a sacrificial thing going on there.