Jar Jar Bricks

I remember having this same conversation a while back. The problem with making her parents bad people is that the Palpy/Rey scene at the end relies on the whole “she will take her revenge!” spiel. He’s trying to get her to hate him. But if Palpatine is responsible for the killing of her parents, and they were bad people, then really Rey should be thanking Palps for neutralizing those scum bags. Not exactly the greatest strategy. And don’t even get me started on the fact that it makes no sense that they wouldn’t reveal her location to Ochi if they were bad.

Don’t get me wrong, it would have been better for them to be bad, but unfortunately the movie we have been given relies on them being good. Doing the opposite would involve removing way too much content and make the Rey/Palpatine scene kinda confusing.

Here is what I’ve got for the Phasma scene thus far. I’m actually pretty satisfied with my first attempt:

As her stormtroopers hurried to set up a repeating blaster that could take out the scout walker, Phasma strode across the hangar with her rifle raised. Rose sent a hasty volley of shots her way, but the one shot that landed on target merely ricocheted off of Phasma’s shining armor to no discernible effect.

As Phasma rushed their position, Finn noticed that one of the executioner’s axes lay on the deck where its wielder had abandoned it. Finn scooped it up, slashing down at Phasma’s head as she aimed her rifle. She saw the blow coming and raised her blaster to intercept it.

The ax cut her rifle in two. Finn grinned as his former commander tossed the useless halves of her weapon away. But before he could press his advantage, Phasma yanked a short baton off her utility belt, which he knew was specially crafted with a unique microscopic structure. A quick whiplike motion extended it into a double-ended spear as long as she was tall.

“You were never anything more than a bug in the system,” she told him, voice dripping with contempt.

“Then I’m going to crash the whole thing,” Finn yelled back, taking a wild swing with the ax. She blocked it and nearly ran him through, forcing him to give ground. Behind her, the scout walker was taking apart the hanger piece by piece, the stormtroopers forced to flee from its murderous fire.

Growling, Phasma whipped her spear at Finn, alternating vicious jabs with slashes aimed at his head, chest, and legs. He parried with the haft of the ax, sparks leaping with each impact, and looked for an opening in her defenses.

But there wasn’t one - she was both faster and stronger than he was. It was all he could do to keep the ax between the two of them, as she rained blows on him from every direction, driving him steadily backward and forcing him to dodge to avoid tripping over the bodies of stormtroopers killed by the initial blast.

She was maneuvering him toward a shaft in the hangar floor, he realized - probably a lift for bringing heavy equipment up from a lower level. Flames were licking out of the opening.

Finn tried to dodge sideways, but Phasma intercepted him. He blocked her attack at the last possible second before she split his skull open. Their weapons remained locked in place.

“You were always disobedient,” Phasma said, pressing him back. “Disrespectful. Your emotions make you weak.”

“No,” Finn replied. “They make me strong.”

With a savage yell she kicked him backward, into the heat and wind boiling up from the Supremacy’s depths.

But a moment later he emerged from the flames, riding atop the turbolift platform he’d landed on and aiming a vicious uppercut with his ax at his attacker. The blow knocked Phasma down and split her mask open. Through the shattered chrome Finn spotted a light blue eye in a pale face.

Finn climbed up from the turbolift and approached Phasma to finish her off as she lay on the floor. But then a group of stormtroopers emerged from the wreckage all around them, weapons pointed right at him. Phasma grabbed her spear off the ground and got to her feet.

Where were Rose and BB-8 when you needed them?

“Put the weapon down, FN-2187,” came a familiar voice - that of nine twenty-six from the lift.

Finn lowered his weapon, but refused to drop it. He knew he needed to stall for time for as long as possible. He faced Phasma.

“You called for order,” he said. “You beat us down. But when your shiny neck was threatened, your devotion to the First Order was abandoned.”

Phasma’s visible eye blinked rapidly. The stormtroopers around them shifted uneasily. Finn hadn’t expected this to actually work beyond stalling.

“The evidence blew up at the base, but you and I know the truth,” Finn continued. “When I put a gun to your head, you shut down Starkiller’s shields! What would your masters do if they found out?”

Fear spread across what Finn could see of Phasma’s face.

“Who would believe a story like that?” she asked, her voice shaking.

Apparently, her own troopers could. They began to exchange glances with each other. Some even lowered their blasters. Phasma’s eye darted from one soldier to the next, detecting the sudden shift in their demeanor.

“I believe him,” said nine twenty-six. “He was always a-”

Finn’s former comrade never got to finish what he was saying. As he spoke, Phasma had launched herself at a blaster on the floor, opening fire on her own men with impossible speed and precision. Seizing his opportunity, Finn charged at her, aiming the swing of his ax directly at the blaster in her hand.

The energy filaments sliced through both the blaster and her hand, cauterizing the open flesh it left behind. Phasma screamed in pain, and Finn went in for a second attack - only this time she blocked it with the spear in her remaining hand. His weapon shivered and then broke. He discarded it to the side, now defenseless.

He managed to stop the spear as she brought it down on him, but then she slammed him backward, landing in the pile of dead stormtroopers around him. He saw now that she had not left a single stormtrooper standing.

“You were always scum,” she spat.

“Rebel scum,” Finn replied coolly.

As Phasma raised her spear with one hand, Finn spotted a heavy assault blaster left behind by a stormtrooper she had just killed. As he pointed it at her chest, Phasma’s surprise momentarily froze her in place - but Finn wasn’t stopping for anything. He fired it, sending her body soaring through the air before landing hard. Instantly the unstable floor collapsed around his former commander. Phasma fell, vanishing into fire.

I know Hal/Poppa in TLJ put audio of Rey whispering Finn’s name to him, causing him to wake up shouting her name. Just a subtle hint, really.

Here is the “I see them” line (unmodified):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_akbBhzvJUZ9lhKeh1MtAdrhlNj-lW74/view?usp=sharing

And here is “You don’t need to say anything” (I removed the huge gap between the words “say” and “anything”):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iLsTCzVzq2dpoTpwIkQlwdTAHCpkW4uQ/view?usp=sharing

You’re right, the delivery is a bit rough on the second one. But I think it would still be interesting to hear what it sounds like.

krausfadr said:

“You remember more than you say” hints that Rey knew deep down that no one was coming back for her. That she was abandoned.

Man you’re getting pretty good at the Testing style 👍

Hal 9000 said:

I do wonder if the line “You remember more than you say” also poses a problem. Kylo goes on to reveal the circumstances of their death, which isn’t something Rey could have known beforehand. This line seems to undermine the sincere confession about her own parents in TLJ. I feel it is important to maintain, even retroactively, that film’s moment of Rey admitting the truth to herself. Not admitting partially but still blocking out a deeper, contradictory truth. Rey can learn her parents were connected to Palpatine in TROS, and that doesn’t have to infringe on her sincerity in TLJ.

Off the top of my head, “You don’t have to say anything” seems like it would fit, but I have a feeling it might not sound right. Still, it would probably be better than the original:

“You remember more than you say. I’ve been in your head.”
To:
“You don’t have to say anything. I’ve been in your head.”

I’m sure there are a couple other options I could investigate as well.

sherlockpotter said:

I don’t remember seeing this before. I like the idea though! You’d just need to add more echo and reverb to the new line to make it match the rest of the dialogue.

I agree. This clip was very much a test, as I merely dragged and dropped the audio into place and adjusted how loud it was.

I can share the audio file here tomorrow if somebody wants to give it a whirl with some of that echo/reverb. Kinda busy this week unfortunately otherwise I’d try myself.

I shared it in the TROS redux thread originally a couple months back. I thought I’d share it here as well since Poppa’s line was brought up again. I mentioned when I first shared it that I didn’t mean to disrespect Poppa’s work, which I should have mentioned here as well. He did a pretty good job, all things considered. His work could easily be used for a fan film or a video game. I was just never sure about it being in the film itself.

And yes, it is Adam’s voice from, you guessed it, the LEGO game. Exclusive to that as well, to my understanding. So it shouldn’t appear anywhere else in the trilogy.

DrVibble said:

Kylo’s altered dialogue to “You were right.” definitely helped in terms of continuity and logic, but though it’s close enough to pass for Kylo’s voice on its own, next to his real masked voice it’s pretty clear that it sounds different; the accent doesn’t quite match, and it feels more flat. Are there any plans to retouch this line for future versions?

Nice review here! I made a mock-up of what is, in my opinion, a more organic line in this scene a while back. I’m glad to hear that even for a first-time viewer this line sounds off. Here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcsLeRB5Uyk

The original line was completely contradictory with TLJ, so it makes sense to replace it, but at least this line removes that contradiction and replaces it with something basic that doesn’t sound out of place. Plus, it makes it clearer where the visions are coming from. Kylo says he sees her parents, then he tells her to see them as well. Cue the first vision.

Hmmm that’s actually kinda interesting. That Snoke only takes credit for the visions Rey and Kylo saw. The problem is that the visions only showed themselves when they touched, and I seriously doubt Snoke was relying on them touching anytime soon since Rey was on the other side of the galaxy.

Still something to consider though.

Knight of Kalee said:

One of the issues with Snoke’s exposition in the scene is that doesn’t completely clarify if the Force bond between Kylo and Rey was indeed created by Snoke or if he’s lying. The fact that the bond persists after his death of course suggests the later, but your edit could make it more clear, and even tie the mind bridge to the Force dyad retcon in TROS.

I’ve ultimately decided to have Snoke admit to being aware of their “strange connection”, but he never even alludes to creating it. Then he goes on to explain that he took advantage of it by “stok[ing] Ren’s conflicted soul” (the berating scene from earlier) knowing that he would turn to Rey and have her come to him.

Yes, it leaves the question of how this thing formed in the first place, but earlier in the novel I explain that something formed, or simply made itself known, during the interrogation scene in TFA. I think the mystery of what exactly their connection is is best reserved for TROS. I’m thinking about going into more details of the dyad in my v2.0 of TROS.

I was considering having him know they were communicating, but not knowing exactly how, but in the end that was too contrived. Besides, since I’ve made Snoke and Palpatine separate entities in this series, it’s no longer an issue for Palpatine to be unaware of their connection.

Yet again I’ve encountered something that works spectacularly in text form but not so much in the actual film.

One of my favorite changes by Hal/Poppa is removing Snoke’s annoying descriptions of what he sees in Kylo’s mind and making it purely a moment between Kylo and Rey. But here, Snoke’s descriptions are the only thing that lets the reader know what’s going on without spoiling the reveal. Like, I could describe what moves Kylo is making and all that, but it really wouldn’t translate very well I don’t think. It would be too obvious and blatant.

Too dark for Star Wars imo. Also doesn’t make much sense. Crying is a much more realistic reaction to her accepting reality.

Although I will admit that I did attempt a vague reference to such a thing when Kylo reveals she is a Palpatine and they are a dyad. I believe the text says something about how her jumping from the Star Destroyer would most certainly be fatal. So then I wrote, “Maybe she should jump anyway.”

I’ve found a way to organically include mentions of both the Knights and Pryde. See the reference to Pryde in the Snoke monolgue above. The Knights are mentioned by Hux much earlier.

Yeah still not sure about the elevator scene but I like your ideas.

CamSMurph said:

Just one last thing: I was expecting the Knights of Ren to utter, “May our bond never again be shattered,” or something along those lines. 🤔

I agree that it might be a good idea somewhere to create the impression that the Knights have been disbanded, and that’s why they didn’t show up for the past two films. This is the canon answer, btw.

Here is a shortened and slightly edited version of Snoke’s monologue to make him seem less ancient and hone in on his mysterious origins:

Snoke knew he himself was a virtually unknown ruler, just about the furthest thing from what the tattered remnants of Palpatine’s Empire had imagined as their leader. The admirals and generals who’d survived the fury of the Empire’s implosion and the New Republic’s wrath had envisioned being led by someone else, someone more recognized: pitiless, devious Gallius Rax; dutiful, cautious Rae Sloane; the slippery political fanatic Ormes Apolin; cold, calculating Enric Pryde; or even the unhinged but ambitious military architect Brendol Hux.

All of those would-be leaders had been co-opted, sidelined, or destroyed, leaving only Armitage Hux, the mad son of a mad father. And that one was but a mouthpiece, a miscast tinkerer whose rantings could only persuade the sort of rabble who blindly worshipped rage and lunatic certainty.

Palpatine had engineered the Contingency to simultaneously destroy his Empire and ensure its rebirth, ruthlessly winnowing its ranks and rebuilding them with who and what survived. The rebuilding was to take place in the Unknown Regions, secretly explored by Imperial scouts and seeded with shipyards, laboratories, storehouses, and stockpiles of all types - an enormously expensive effort that had taken decades, and been kept hidden from all but the elect.

But the Imperial refugee’s military preparations had been insufficient bulwarks against the terrors of the Unknown Regions. Grasping in the dark among strange stars, they had come perilously close to destruction, and it had not been military might that had saved them.

It had been knowledge - Snoke’s knowledge. Which, ironically, led back to Palpatine and his secrets.

Palpatine’s true identity as Darth Sidious, heir to the Sith, had been an even greater secret than the Contingency. And the Empire’s explorations into the Unknown Regions had served both aspects of its ruler. For Sidious knew that the galaxy’s knowledge of the Force had come from those long-abandoned, half-legendary star systems, and that great truths awaited rediscovery on them.

Truths that Snoke had learned from and made to serve his own ends.

One obstacle had stood in his way - Skywalker. Like his father, Skywalker had been a favored instrument of the will of the Cosmic Force. That made it essential to watch him. And once Skywalker endangered Snoke’s design, it had become essential to act.

And so Snoke had drawn upon his vast store of knowledge, parceling it out to confuse Skywalker’s path, ensnare his family, and harness Ben Solo’s powers to ensure both Skywalker’s destruction and Snoke’s triumph.

Now the endgame he had foreseen was at hand.

Are you suggesting that they’re infallible masterpieces that didn’t need to be rewritten? If so, wtf are you doing here?

It just doesn’t add anything substantial. Plus I’d have to rewrite a whole bunch of stuff for no good reason.

Finn and Rose were laying flat, avoiding most of the damage. Phasma has near indestructible armor. It can be assumed that the other stormtroopers were among the few survivors.

No because presumably most or a lot of the people on the Supremacy die after the lightspeed ram.

Plus, my TROS novel creates the impression that she was special forces for Pryde (and obviously he wasn’t on the Supremacy).

But doesn’t that go against your idea that the First Order is massive? Lol.

Honestly I don’t really care either way. I may end up just leaving it up to interpretation whether the trooper in the elevator actually knew he was a traitor or not.

TestingOutTheTest said:

The problem I had with that elevator scene before is that all troopers at this point should know about the infamous FN-2187.

The FO is MASSIVE (in terms of the amount of people), of course they wouldn’t know about Finn’s betrayal.

I know that, but knowing how these sorts of regimes work, I’d think they would broadcast all over the place how terrible this 2187 guy was. They would use it as an opportunity for propaganda and make the stormtroopers want to hate the guy.

Or maybe they’d keep it under wraps. Who knows.

EDIT: Proof that they should recognize him comes from TFA. During the battle of Takodana, he is recognized as a stormtrooper by another one even though there’s no real indicator of it. Remember when the guy with the baton thingy shouts “Traitor!” at him?

Knight of Kalee said:

I haven’t read the TLJ novel, so is there the deleted scene with Finn and co. meet some stormtroopers inside an elevator? In that case you could tie both moments together, maybe having the trooper that talks with Finn being the first to point his gun at Phasma.

Yes, that one is in there. In fact, I’m actually considering having him be there at the tracker room when they get caught to say “I’m sorry” yet again. Cause there are a bunch of normal troopers there, and they would have been in the vicinity to get the call to surprise attack them.

The problem I had with that elevator scene before is that all troopers at this point should know about the infamous FN-2187. And the novelization explains that the walls of the elevator would cause a ricochet effect killing everyone inside. So it makes sense they would receive orders (muffled by their helmets) to hold off their attack until later.

Since this is a novel, I can make them point their weapons at her or even fire since her armor is blaster proof. And I believe this happens at the end of their fight, not in the middle or beginning.

The scene still ends with him declaring that he’s “rebel scum”. In the deleted scene he points out that Phasma only cares about her own wellbeing, not the cause she supposedly serves. This is what makes the troopers around Finn turn on her. I think this only enhances what you just said.