Jar Jar Bricks

I’d understand if it was “I’d just begun to train her” or “We were training for the first time” but the phrase itself is ambiguous enough to be referring to a beginning before the flashback itself. Though I understand there could be some confusion there. We’ll have to consider some options here.

You’re right about the next part, but by referring to their mother we get that exact same interpretation without having to be overly detailed.

Here’s how that latest one from DZ might sound, then:

https://youtu.be/cjGnFo_EYQI?si=lJ_l78JdZQ_-0LOS

“In training, her potential rivaled my own. Leia told me her fate was bound to the core of galactic affairs, not the rigid path of a Jedi. She surrendered her saber to me…”

I’m willing to re-word this one, but I think it accomplishes three different things.

1. Leia is possibly even stronger with the Force naturally than Luke (thus why she beats him).
2. She senses that she needs to play a more active role in the galaxy than what the Jedi would allow.
3. Luke trained Leia for an indeterminate amount of time so that everybody is happy around here.

Burbin said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Burbin said:

Before this movie we aren’t given any indication Leia was ever anything close to a Jedi, she seemed to be in the same place we left her in RotJ, naturally in tune with the Force without any formal training, her space walk in TLJ is closer to Luke pulling the lightsaber on the Wampa cave, which he did before any real Jedi training. It would’ve been fine if they stuck to that but in TROS she suddenly had all this Jedi training that she chose to never use, so there needs to be a reason for that. The film decided the reason was that if she picked up a lightsaber her son would die, which is ridiculous, so I think there needs to be something equivalent to replace that.

I guess I’m having a hard time understanding why you aren’t okay with reverting back to the idea that she didn’t get much formal training, then? We already shot down your point that then she couldn’t have trained Rey - she didn’t really train her, just mentored her and wanted her to reach the past Jedi instead of her.

We can argue semantics all you want, but the movie is very explicit that Leia is supposed to be training Rey, full stop, I don’t think anyone could watch those opening scenes and come to any other conclusion, she literally calls her Master. And the whole point of that flashback scene is to explain how she could be training Rey, it’s convoluted and messy, but it’s stylistically designed to be that way, and you can’t undo that. Even if you remove being the “last night of her training”, she still needs to have trained enough to be able to teach Rey, otherwise none of it makes sense.

Lmao I love your callback to Lucas on TPM

I still believe you’re thinking very black and white, though. It’s either that she learned everything or that she learned nothing at all for you. She could learn the basics, and still be a valuable resource for Rey. But it’s clear Rey is largely doing her own teaching (like a college student LMAO). She is reading Luke’s notes on the Jedi texts, running this training course that Luke made for Leia back in the day, and trying to get in contact with somebody who knows more about being a Jedi at the behest of Leia herself.

Even our new crawl has been modified in such a way to reflect this: “As Rey, sole heir to the Jedi, continues her training, General Leia Organa sends her brave agents across the stars to unite the disparate worlds in the name of Resistance.” Nowhere does it say that Leia is training her. Instead, Leia is still referred to as a General here, which is who she has largely chosen to be. Rey refers to her as a “Master” the same way that everyone referred to Anakin as “Master Skywalker”. Even though he never earned the rank of master, it’s a sign of respect for someone who has trained in the Jedi arts.

Burbin said:

Before this movie we aren’t given any indication Leia was ever anything close to a Jedi, she seemed to be in the same place we left her in RotJ, naturally in tune with the Force without any formal training, her space walk in TLJ is closer to Luke pulling the lightsaber on the Wampa cave, which he did before any real Jedi training. It would’ve been fine if they stuck to that but in TROS she suddenly had all this Jedi training that she chose to never use, so there needs to be a reason for that. The film decided the reason was that if she picked up a lightsaber her son would die, which is ridiculous, so I think there needs to be something equivalent to replace that.

I guess I’m having a hard time understanding why you aren’t okay with reverting back to the idea that she didn’t get much formal training, then? We already shot down your point that then she couldn’t have trained Rey - she didn’t really train her, just mentored her and wanted her to reach the past Jedi instead of her.

Tobar said:

The diplomacy lines hit wrong for me. The Jedi can defend themselves and others sure but they’re not violent by nature. Before the rise of Palpatine the Jedi were negotiators/mediators that were sent out to settle disputes between different parties through non-violent diplomacy.

This new Luke line paints the Jedi as warriors first and that just doesn’t ring true.

It’s not really that Luke’s Jedi were exclusively warriors, but that they were intentionally meant to be distant from the center of the galaxy’s issues so that they didn’t reach a Clone Wars 2.0 scenario. There’s a reason Luke chose a random-ass planet in the middle of nowhere for his new temple.

Leia likes to be right in the middle of things. Luke was probably cautious of that. It’s not that hard to see why this would be an issue.

RogueLeader said:

Another option would be to leave it vague and allow people to come to their own conclusions.

“Leia had sensed the end of her Jedi path. She surrendered her saber to me and said that one day, she would finish her journey.”

But maybe that wouldn’t be a satisfying answer. You could also have the original on the “no AI lines” audio track, and the new explanation on the alternate one.

This is pretty much how it is in v3. But I’ve literally had a first time viewer tell me that this is really unsatisfying to hear, and I didn’t plant that in his head at all!

I agree, perhaps leave it as v3 in the alternate track, and use the new lines I made for the main track.

BrotherOfSasquatch said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

It’s hard to extract “Rey” from this scene because a lot of music is in the center channel. This is beyond my abilities, unfortunately.

That’s why I think the “Rey” should be cut out, full stop.

What I meant is that by doing that to the center channel, the music quite obviously dips out and then back in. I’m not sure if this is something somebody else has done before on here.

I mean, she wasn’t exactly Rey’s Master. More like a tutor, really, from what we see in the movie.

That actually is why she’s trying to get her to reach out to the past Jedi. She knows she isn’t equipped enough to teach her. She wants Rey to be able to learn from the Force ghosts.

Arguably, leaving it the way it is creates a lot of questions that I had never considered before. Like, if Leia DID fully complete her training (it being the last night of her training when she quit) why didn’t she simply become a Jedi again when it was clear that Luke wasn’t coming back on his own? Ya know, instead of just being another general?

Stuck between a rock and a hard place. I think I agree with everyone else that we just have to acknowledge Disney’s approach in the sequels was to have all the old heroes fail so the new ones could shine. Which is dumb, but there’s nothing we can do about that.

DZ-330 said:

Exactly my thought, and why I think he should say “Rey” first.

Luke: “Rey, final lesson, some things are stronger than blood.”

It’s hard to extract “Rey” from this scene because a lot of music is in the center channel. This is beyond my abilities, unfortunately.

Ideally, what should be able to happen is his line is muted there and then an AI generated version of “Rey…” is placed before or the original line is simply shifted over (with its background noise removed).

PsyGemini said:

Hal 9000 said:
For the Leia training flashback, Leia’s face displays some emotion so I don’t think it would fit to just say she decided to go with her political career; there should be something there but I’m not sure what. >

I honestly don’t see any problems. She knows being a jedi means a great deal to Luke, to her father’s legacy and to the galaxy overall, so it would be very natural and expected that she’d had some massive inner conflict about “abandoning” the jedi path to follow a political career.

+1 to all this

DZ-330 said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

While that would work better in terms of sentence structure, I believe the goal here was to replicate his style of introducing lessons from TLJ.

“Lesson one. The Force is not a power you have…”

“Lesson two. Now that they’re extinct, the Jedi are romanticized, deified…”

In that context, I think the line might read better as:

Luke: “Rey, lesson three. Some things are stronger than blood.”

I also don’t necessarily want him to use the word “three” because those three lessons were about why the Jedi ought to end. This lesson is encouraging her to be a Jedi.

While that would work better in terms of sentence structure, I believe the goal here was to replicate his style of introducing lessons from TLJ.

“Lesson one. The Force is not a power you have…”

“Lesson two. Now that they’re extinct, the Jedi are romanticized, deified…”

And here is the final lesson line in practice (it’s in the Drive now):

https://youtu.be/g7OwNYcUGCw?si=IZK7AJG905XTFVC2

Here is a shared Drive folder where I will deposit all the lines that we will need:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1r8jg3jEzeWVa3itr9wr8g8VX_3gNx0Iz?usp=sharing

It’s honestly kinda scary how realistic this sounds when put together:

https://youtu.be/QJA71I80Ugs?si=cjNhaNEELzNMzHeL

Yeah that would probably fit quite a bit better given time constraints.

Honestly, it makes much more sense for canon to be that Leia didn’t train beyond building a lightsaber and some dueling techniques. I doubt she trained any longer than a year. For that to be the last night of her training is kinda crazy.

Since v4 is on the table, do we know what ever happened to that mockup of Rey blasting a short burst of lightning at Finn on the Death Star wreckage? I feel like that’s the missing piece in her arc to give up everything and head to Ahch-To. She realizes that just being by her friends in general will always put them in danger.

If that was never finished, if a like-minded person with a little bit of VFX skills could fix that up it would be awesome!

Would it be possible to snip the “and its people” part? I’m mostly thinking about constraints in terms of available space for the new lines.

If we were to go for the politics explanation route, then I at the very least agree that it being “the last night of her training” needs to be replaced with something else. Make it clear that she didn’t train for that long with him.

But your description in general has brought back the following potential replacement in my mind: “Leia sensed that she could best serve the galaxy in other ways.” It’s more vague while still being more of an actual explanation than the whole “I sensed it was the end so I stopped.”

DZ-330 said:

Leia looks concerned in the flashback, that could be seen more as a “Why am I doing this?” look instead of a “I’m concerned about my son.” look.

Not even “why am I doing this?” More like a “I’m really sorry and disappointed I have to tell my brother that this isn’t going to work out.”

Hal 9000 said:

To me, interjecting something about Leia for Rey to react to with “wow, she still trained me though” feels weird. Makes it seem very elementary of a problem, like Rey is shocked that Leia was aware that she was having a hard time with self-confidence.

It’s not really “self-confidence” though. It’s that she has a natural inclination toward the dark side of the Force. Which is displayed in TLJ when the dark side cave calls out to her. It is definitely shocking to hear that your mentor knew you had a propensity to fail terribly but they still decided to take you on because they recognized you were strong enough to push through it all.

Chris Terrio describes it like the following: “We were very moved by the idea that Leia would have known that from the very beginning, but since she still saw such hope, heart and spirit in Rey, she decided that she was going to take a chance…”

DominicCobb said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

DominicCobb said:

RogueLeader said:

Speaking of the Luke stuff, I think there is a way to get these ideas across without straying very far from what he already says and making feel new dialogue feel out of place.

Luke: Because you’re a Palpatine [cut for Rey Nobody, but honestly you could cut it for both versions and focus on the dark vision if you wanted]

Luke: Leia knew it, too. [or] Leia saw it, too. (for the Rey Nobody version but could work for both)

Luke: Because she saw your spirit, your heart. She knew, because some things are stronger than blood.

(This is just my opinion but I feel like Luke’s following guidance would work better to me more about Rey’s personal journey rather than focusing on her physical one. It can work both ways, but this feels more like personal guidance from a father figure and less like orders from a general)

Luke: Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi. Your destiny. If you don’t face it, it will mean the end of the Jedi. And you will be lost.
(I also feel like you could replace “your destiny” with “always” or “a constant struggle” to tie better into the theme of “bringing back the balance” and balance not being permanent, but something that must be maintained)

I think at one point someone pitched Luke saying “Leia saw your dark vision(s) too.” Slightly awkward wording maybe, but straight to the point and would work for Rey Palpatine or Rey Nobody.

Yes, but the problem is that the film gives the impression that she only had 1 dark vision. And by the time she has the one, Leia has already been training her for a year. It’s much more compelling if she’s known for that entire year that she grapples with the dark side but still chose to train her because of her spirit and heart.

Hmm, I guess Rey’s lines to Finn and Luke imply it was one vision. I think you’re right, probably a better phrase for him to say that captures her struggle.

I like your line “Leia understood the weight of the darkness that pressed upon you,” in the abstract, but wonder if it’s a bit too long/wordy. Maybe something “Leia knew of the darkness you struggled with.”

You’re right. Simplicity usually wins:
https://youtu.be/54n0B4FN6qE?si=iCjzVn3gT2UTtLH0

EDIT: Link has been corrected. For real this time.

DominicCobb said:

RogueLeader said:

Speaking of the Luke stuff, I think there is a way to get these ideas across without straying very far from what he already says and making feel new dialogue feel out of place.

Luke: Because you’re a Palpatine [cut for Rey Nobody, but honestly you could cut it for both versions and focus on the dark vision if you wanted]

Luke: Leia knew it, too. [or] Leia saw it, too. (for the Rey Nobody version but could work for both)

Luke: Because she saw your spirit, your heart. She knew, because some things are stronger than blood.

(This is just my opinion but I feel like Luke’s following guidance would work better to me more about Rey’s personal journey rather than focusing on her physical one. It can work both ways, but this feels more like personal guidance from a father figure and less like orders from a general)

Luke: Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi. Your destiny. If you don’t face it, it will mean the end of the Jedi. And you will be lost.
(I also feel like you could replace “your destiny” with “always” or “a constant struggle” to tie better into the theme of “bringing back the balance” and balance not being permanent, but something that must be maintained)

I think at one point someone pitched Luke saying “Leia saw your dark vision(s) too.” Slightly awkward wording maybe, but straight to the point and would work for Rey Palpatine or Rey Nobody.

Yes, but the problem is that the film gives the impression that she only had 1 dark vision. And by the time she has the one, Leia has already been training her for a year. It’s much more compelling if she’s known for that entire year that she grapples with the dark side but still chose to train her because of her spirit and heart.

I’m going to echo DZ’s concerns on that last one. I think a lot of people are using Rekindled because they can’t stand that Rose scene at the end.

That’s a much more suitable replacement, DZ.