Yeah that would probably fit quite a bit better given time constraints.
Honestly, it makes much more sense for canon to be that Leia didn’t train beyond building a lightsaber and some dueling techniques. I doubt she trained any longer than a year. For that to be the last night of her training is kinda crazy.
Since v4 is on the table, do we know what ever happened to that mockup of Rey blasting a short burst of lightning at Finn on the Death Star wreckage? I feel like that’s the missing piece in her arc to give up everything and head to Ahch-To. She realizes that just being by her friends in general will always put them in danger.
If that was never finished, if a like-minded person with a little bit of VFX skills could fix that up it would be awesome!
Would it be possible to snip the “and its people” part? I’m mostly thinking about constraints in terms of available space for the new lines.
If we were to go for the politics explanation route, then I at the very least agree that it being “the last night of her training” needs to be replaced with something else. Make it clear that she didn’t train for that long with him.
But your description in general has brought back the following potential replacement in my mind: “Leia sensed that she could best serve the galaxy in other ways.” It’s more vague while still being more of an actual explanation than the whole “I sensed it was the end so I stopped.”
Leia looks concerned in the flashback, that could be seen more as a “Why am I doing this?” look instead of a “I’m concerned about my son.” look.
Not even “why am I doing this?” More like a “I’m really sorry and disappointed I have to tell my brother that this isn’t going to work out.”
To me, interjecting something about Leia for Rey to react to with “wow, she still trained me though” feels weird. Makes it seem very elementary of a problem, like Rey is shocked that Leia was aware that she was having a hard time with self-confidence.
It’s not really “self-confidence” though. It’s that she has a natural inclination toward the dark side of the Force. Which is displayed in TLJ when the dark side cave calls out to her. It is definitely shocking to hear that your mentor knew you had a propensity to fail terribly but they still decided to take you on because they recognized you were strong enough to push through it all.
Chris Terrio describes it like the following: “We were very moved by the idea that Leia would have known that from the very beginning, but since she still saw such hope, heart and spirit in Rey, she decided that she was going to take a chance…”
Speaking of the Luke stuff, I think there is a way to get these ideas across without straying very far from what he already says and making feel new dialogue feel out of place.
Luke: Because you’re a Palpatine [cut for Rey Nobody, but honestly you could cut it for both versions and focus on the dark vision if you wanted]
Luke: Leia knew it, too. [or] Leia saw it, too. (for the Rey Nobody version but could work for both)
Luke: Because she saw your spirit, your heart. She knew, because some things are stronger than blood.
(This is just my opinion but I feel like Luke’s following guidance would work better to me more about Rey’s personal journey rather than focusing on her physical one. It can work both ways, but this feels more like personal guidance from a father figure and less like orders from a general)
Luke: Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi. Your destiny. If you don’t face it, it will mean the end of the Jedi. And you will be lost.
(I also feel like you could replace “your destiny” with “always” or “a constant struggle” to tie better into the theme of “bringing back the balance” and balance not being permanent, but something that must be maintained)I think at one point someone pitched Luke saying “Leia saw your dark vision(s) too.” Slightly awkward wording maybe, but straight to the point and would work for Rey Palpatine or Rey Nobody.
Yes, but the problem is that the film gives the impression that she only had 1 dark vision. And by the time she has the one, Leia has already been training her for a year. It’s much more compelling if she’s known for that entire year that she grapples with the dark side but still chose to train her because of her spirit and heart.
Hmm, I guess Rey’s lines to Finn and Luke imply it was one vision. I think you’re right, probably a better phrase for him to say that captures her struggle.
I like your line “Leia understood the weight of the darkness that pressed upon you,” in the abstract, but wonder if it’s a bit too long/wordy. Maybe something “Leia knew of the darkness you struggled with.”
You’re right. Simplicity usually wins:
https://youtu.be/54n0B4FN6qE?si=iCjzVn3gT2UTtLH0
EDIT: Link has been corrected. For real this time.
Speaking of the Luke stuff, I think there is a way to get these ideas across without straying very far from what he already says and making feel new dialogue feel out of place.
Luke: Because you’re a Palpatine [cut for Rey Nobody, but honestly you could cut it for both versions and focus on the dark vision if you wanted]
Luke: Leia knew it, too. [or] Leia saw it, too. (for the Rey Nobody version but could work for both)
Luke: Because she saw your spirit, your heart. She knew, because some things are stronger than blood.
(This is just my opinion but I feel like Luke’s following guidance would work better to me more about Rey’s personal journey rather than focusing on her physical one. It can work both ways, but this feels more like personal guidance from a father figure and less like orders from a general)
Luke: Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi. Your destiny. If you don’t face it, it will mean the end of the Jedi. And you will be lost.
(I also feel like you could replace “your destiny” with “always” or “a constant struggle” to tie better into the theme of “bringing back the balance” and balance not being permanent, but something that must be maintained)I think at one point someone pitched Luke saying “Leia saw your dark vision(s) too.” Slightly awkward wording maybe, but straight to the point and would work for Rey Palpatine or Rey Nobody.
Yes, but the problem is that the film gives the impression that she only had 1 dark vision. And by the time she has the one, Leia has already been training her for a year. It’s much more compelling if she’s known for that entire year that she grapples with the dark side but still chose to train her because of her spirit and heart.
I’m going to echo DZ’s concerns on that last one. I think a lot of people are using Rekindled because they can’t stand that Rose scene at the end.
That’s a much more suitable replacement, DZ.
Yeah but this is the same Luke who had decided that the Jedi needed to end because they were flawed. And by the end of TLJ he is taught that the next generation needs to grow beyond the past Jedi.
But I see your point regardless. For me, it’s either we make the saga’s theme of sacrificial love conquering selfish love more apparent or we just leave it as-is
Yeah, it could be argued this Luke line to Ben is unneeded, but otherwise it’s only Han and Leia that reach out to him and help him in TROS:
https://youtu.be/REXY9RKk87M?si=UKCP_Fs0CaClCXxN
Plus, it gives an explanation for how the hell he suddenly knows how to Force heal. Luke could have parted that wisdom to him. Definitely doesn’t need to be in this edit whatsoever, but I might consider it for my own personal copy.
As for the other Luke lines, I want to wait until we have a general consensus on what he should say before I generate anything else.
I’d love to make the parallels with Anakin more apparent there. “Ben. Finish what your grandfather couldn’t.” Then he proceeds to save the one he cares about from certain death. But like you said it might detract from the personal moment between Ben and Rey.
The only place I can think of is when Ben picks up Rey’s body: he quickly jerks his head and looks around the area as if he heard somebody speaking. Luke could say something to him there. Not sure what exactly.
There’s already a lot happening in the intro of the movie, and there wouldn’t be any visual reaction if Luke spoke to him. So that’s a tough sell imo.
Luke talks to Kylo? Have “See ya around kid” from TLJ actually foreshadow TROS 😉
Unfortunately he also said he doesn’t want to upend Luke’s epic first appearance. Not unless it were something truly warranted and seamless. I can’t think of any Kylo scene off the top of my head where it would help.
I’m of the opinion that Leia needs to have a very specific reason for abandoning her Jedi path in order for it to be satisfying. Plus, this way she is explicitly following in the footsteps of her mother, Padme.
If it is because she thought it was more helpful to be a politician, why is that? If she would’ve remained a Jedi she wouldn’t have had to look for Luke all throughout the trilogy to gain his help. They could’ve just been fine with her.
The Resistance wouldn’t have even existed in Episode 7, for one thing. The relationships she made helped form it. Luke’s Jedi Order was also very secluded from the galaxy (and for good reason, look at what happened last time).
Jar Jar! Sounds great! Very funny we posted the Luke stuff at practically the same time LOL. As for the “Leia knew it too.” replacement, how about something like:
Luke: "Because you’re a Palpatine? I wanted to help you; I told Leia.
Rey: “She didn’t tell me. She still trained me.”
Luke: “Because she saw your spirit, your heart. Rey, some things are stronger than blood.”
I already suggested that to Hal when we were coming up with ideas for this scene last time around. He doesn’t like the idea that Luke can know everything and tell anyone he wants this divine knowledge.
We also didn’t want it to make it seem like Rey is destined for darkness. So a “dark calling” is also off the table. I landed on what I did because it implies a struggle but something that she can overcome.
I’m of the opinion that Leia needs to have a very specific reason for abandoning her Jedi path in order for it to be satisfying. Plus, this way she is explicitly following in the footsteps of her mother, Padme.
Luke sounds absolutely AMAZING. Here is a way we can reintegrate Leia having known about Rey’s struggle with the dark side:
https://youtu.be/70vGJBB7YMQ?si=cK7ZOptoAtGYwtbD
And here is a line to give Leia some closure with the Jedi that makes sense in canon:
https://youtu.be/QM-xl2GirK8?si=QiRJpNAiBfeDP8-R
I’m using default TROS for both of these examples just for ease of use. v4 is shaping up to be pretty epic though.
Yeah, it sounds completely seamless. I don’t have any particular preference on wording, but fleet-killing weapons does sound less MacLunkey than Dreadnaught tier laser cannons.
Although, one thing I’ve noticed through doing the AI lines this way is that it’s always significantly quieter than whatever you’re trying to match. Hopefully some adjusting can fix that.
If we want to get really goofy I’d still love to see Luke’s severed hand floating in a tank somewhere lmao.
Kylo Ren as a character has always said things in a very direct and matter-of-fact way throughout the entire trilogy.
“The map to Skywalker. We know you found it. And now you’re going to give it to the First Order.”
“I feel it again. The pull to the light. The Supreme Leader senses it.”
“I know what I have to do but I don’t know if I have the strength to do it”
“Let the past die. Kill it if you have to. That’s the only way to become what you were meant to be.”
“You’re a ghost. In a rotting clone. What could you give me?”
I dunno, it just fits.
Yup. Also, using phrases like “rotting shell” and “withered relic” makes it sound like the kind of needlessly complicated dialog Lucas made back in the day. Which isn’t present throughout the rest of the movie. Imo it would just make the line stand out more and scream: “this wasn’t here originally and is AI”
The original AI Kylo line which mentions a clone sounds like 90% there now:
https://youtu.be/_jqCt9AEKIc?si=wNtouPpATk2eFLEx
Since it sounds so close to his other lines we could also replace “What could you… give me?”
As for why this is necessary, I am of the opinion that the vat of clones is easy to miss for a first time viewer. I had to go back and point it out to those watching with me. Also, it’s not really as if Kylo is breaking the fourth wall here and “reading the script”. He’s literally seen the other clones, and can put two and two together to make things clearer for the audience.
Nah, it’s more like a v3.1 because I was too stubborn and lazy to actually use lines from the movies as source audio files for the voice clones.
Granted, I don’t have access to voice isolation except through audacity so it wasn’t entirely unwarranted.
I’ll see what I can do tonight. But all of this has helped me realize that we could try to replicate Luke again using his lines from just TROS. One thing one of my audience members immediately pointed out was that it was kinda dumb that Leia just stopped being a Jedi because of a feeling.
Also, we could reintegrate Leia having known about the dark side calling out to Rey (not necessarily that she was a Palpatine) but still chose to train her regardless.
What vocal isolation software do you use? I can get to work on a Kylo Ren mask-less only using his lines from the movies.