Also, I do believe we can get Palpatine to say whatever we want now. Was there anything in particular that somebody brought up a while ago?
I’ve updated the drive with the latest versions of those two lines:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1r8jg3jEzeWVa3itr9wr8g8VX_3gNx0Iz?usp=sharing
Is RL tackling the Poe stuff? If so, I was thinking about making one of these for Jannah so she can say that FN-2187 was her company’s source of inspiration to lay down their arms.
"Our mother watched helplessly as the democracy she fought so hard to maintain crumbled before her eyes, so Leia decided to follow in her footsteps and watched helplessly as the democracy she fought so hard to maintain crumbled before her eyes. She surrendered her saber to me and left me to deal with Ben Solo’s darkness alone.
Lesson three. Now that she’s gone, Leia is romanticized, deified. But if you strip away the myth and look at her deeds, the legacy of Leia is failure. Hypocrisy, hubris. A thousand generations live in you now, but this is your fight, and honestly you’re better off on your own."
Bruh there is so much wrong with what you said I feel like Rey going: “That’s not true!”
At the end of the day, you might just have to stick with the alternate audio track which Hal is thankfully going to create for v4.
How many times have I redone this single scene today? Lmao:
I actually really liked having “Leia was a quick learner” right after she beats Luke in combat. Putting it before would spoil who wins their spar kinda. But it’s a minor thing, really.
I’d understand if it was “I’d just begun to train her” or “We were training for the first time” but the phrase itself is ambiguous enough to be referring to a beginning before the flashback itself. Though I understand there could be some confusion there. We’ll have to consider some options here.
You’re right about the next part, but by referring to their mother we get that exact same interpretation without having to be overly detailed.
Here’s how that latest one from DZ might sound, then:
“In training, her potential rivaled my own. Leia told me her fate was bound to the core of galactic affairs, not the rigid path of a Jedi. She surrendered her saber to me…”
I’m willing to re-word this one, but I think it accomplishes three different things.
Before this movie we aren’t given any indication Leia was ever anything close to a Jedi, she seemed to be in the same place we left her in RotJ, naturally in tune with the Force without any formal training, her space walk in TLJ is closer to Luke pulling the lightsaber on the Wampa cave, which he did before any real Jedi training. It would’ve been fine if they stuck to that but in TROS she suddenly had all this Jedi training that she chose to never use, so there needs to be a reason for that. The film decided the reason was that if she picked up a lightsaber her son would die, which is ridiculous, so I think there needs to be something equivalent to replace that.
I guess I’m having a hard time understanding why you aren’t okay with reverting back to the idea that she didn’t get much formal training, then? We already shot down your point that then she couldn’t have trained Rey - she didn’t really train her, just mentored her and wanted her to reach the past Jedi instead of her.
We can argue semantics all you want, but the movie is very explicit that Leia is supposed to be training Rey, full stop, I don’t think anyone could watch those opening scenes and come to any other conclusion, she literally calls her Master. And the whole point of that flashback scene is to explain how she could be training Rey, it’s convoluted and messy, but it’s stylistically designed to be that way, and you can’t undo that. Even if you remove being the “last night of her training”, she still needs to have trained enough to be able to teach Rey, otherwise none of it makes sense.
Lmao I love your callback to Lucas on TPM
I still believe you’re thinking very black and white, though. It’s either that she learned everything or that she learned nothing at all for you. She could learn the basics, and still be a valuable resource for Rey. But it’s clear Rey is largely doing her own teaching (like a college student LMAO). She is reading Luke’s notes on the Jedi texts, running this training course that Luke made for Leia back in the day, and trying to get in contact with somebody who knows more about being a Jedi at the behest of Leia herself.
Even our new crawl has been modified in such a way to reflect this: “As Rey, sole heir to the Jedi, continues her training, General Leia Organa sends her brave agents across the stars to unite the disparate worlds in the name of Resistance.” Nowhere does it say that Leia is training her. Instead, Leia is still referred to as a General here, which is who she has largely chosen to be. Rey refers to her as a “Master” the same way that everyone referred to Anakin as “Master Skywalker”. Even though he never earned the rank of master, it’s a sign of respect for someone who has trained in the Jedi arts.
Before this movie we aren’t given any indication Leia was ever anything close to a Jedi, she seemed to be in the same place we left her in RotJ, naturally in tune with the Force without any formal training, her space walk in TLJ is closer to Luke pulling the lightsaber on the Wampa cave, which he did before any real Jedi training. It would’ve been fine if they stuck to that but in TROS she suddenly had all this Jedi training that she chose to never use, so there needs to be a reason for that. The film decided the reason was that if she picked up a lightsaber her son would die, which is ridiculous, so I think there needs to be something equivalent to replace that.
I guess I’m having a hard time understanding why you aren’t okay with reverting back to the idea that she didn’t get much formal training, then? We already shot down your point that then she couldn’t have trained Rey - she didn’t really train her, just mentored her and wanted her to reach the past Jedi instead of her.
The diplomacy lines hit wrong for me. The Jedi can defend themselves and others sure but they’re not violent by nature. Before the rise of Palpatine the Jedi were negotiators/mediators that were sent out to settle disputes between different parties through non-violent diplomacy.
This new Luke line paints the Jedi as warriors first and that just doesn’t ring true.
It’s not really that Luke’s Jedi were exclusively warriors, but that they were intentionally meant to be distant from the center of the galaxy’s issues so that they didn’t reach a Clone Wars 2.0 scenario. There’s a reason Luke chose a random-ass planet in the middle of nowhere for his new temple.
Leia likes to be right in the middle of things. Luke was probably cautious of that. It’s not that hard to see why this would be an issue.
Another option would be to leave it vague and allow people to come to their own conclusions.
“Leia had sensed the end of her Jedi path. She surrendered her saber to me and said that one day, she would finish her journey.”
But maybe that wouldn’t be a satisfying answer. You could also have the original on the “no AI lines” audio track, and the new explanation on the alternate one.
This is pretty much how it is in v3. But I’ve literally had a first time viewer tell me that this is really unsatisfying to hear, and I didn’t plant that in his head at all!
I agree, perhaps leave it as v3 in the alternate track, and use the new lines I made for the main track.
It’s hard to extract “Rey” from this scene because a lot of music is in the center channel. This is beyond my abilities, unfortunately.
That’s why I think the “Rey” should be cut out, full stop.
What I meant is that by doing that to the center channel, the music quite obviously dips out and then back in. I’m not sure if this is something somebody else has done before on here.
I mean, she wasn’t exactly Rey’s Master. More like a tutor, really, from what we see in the movie.
That actually is why she’s trying to get her to reach out to the past Jedi. She knows she isn’t equipped enough to teach her. She wants Rey to be able to learn from the Force ghosts.
Arguably, leaving it the way it is creates a lot of questions that I had never considered before. Like, if Leia DID fully complete her training (it being the last night of her training when she quit) why didn’t she simply become a Jedi again when it was clear that Luke wasn’t coming back on his own? Ya know, instead of just being another general?
Stuck between a rock and a hard place. I think I agree with everyone else that we just have to acknowledge Disney’s approach in the sequels was to have all the old heroes fail so the new ones could shine. Which is dumb, but there’s nothing we can do about that.
Exactly my thought, and why I think he should say “Rey” first.
Luke: “Rey, final lesson, some things are stronger than blood.”
It’s hard to extract “Rey” from this scene because a lot of music is in the center channel. This is beyond my abilities, unfortunately.
Ideally, what should be able to happen is his line is muted there and then an AI generated version of “Rey…” is placed before or the original line is simply shifted over (with its background noise removed).
Hal 9000 said:
For the Leia training flashback, Leia’s face displays some emotion so I don’t think it would fit to just say she decided to go with her political career; there should be something there but I’m not sure what. >I honestly don’t see any problems. She knows being a jedi means a great deal to Luke, to her father’s legacy and to the galaxy overall, so it would be very natural and expected that she’d had some massive inner conflict about “abandoning” the jedi path to follow a political career.
+1 to all this
While that would work better in terms of sentence structure, I believe the goal here was to replicate his style of introducing lessons from TLJ.
“Lesson one. The Force is not a power you have…”
“Lesson two. Now that they’re extinct, the Jedi are romanticized, deified…”
In that context, I think the line might read better as:
Luke: “Rey, lesson three. Some things are stronger than blood.”
I also don’t necessarily want him to use the word “three” because those three lessons were about why the Jedi ought to end. This lesson is encouraging her to be a Jedi.
While that would work better in terms of sentence structure, I believe the goal here was to replicate his style of introducing lessons from TLJ.
“Lesson one. The Force is not a power you have…”
“Lesson two. Now that they’re extinct, the Jedi are romanticized, deified…”
And here is the final lesson line in practice (it’s in the Drive now):
Here is a shared Drive folder where I will deposit all the lines that we will need:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1r8jg3jEzeWVa3itr9wr8g8VX_3gNx0Iz?usp=sharing
It’s honestly kinda scary how realistic this sounds when put together:
Yeah that would probably fit quite a bit better given time constraints.
Honestly, it makes much more sense for canon to be that Leia didn’t train beyond building a lightsaber and some dueling techniques. I doubt she trained any longer than a year. For that to be the last night of her training is kinda crazy.
Since v4 is on the table, do we know what ever happened to that mockup of Rey blasting a short burst of lightning at Finn on the Death Star wreckage? I feel like that’s the missing piece in her arc to give up everything and head to Ahch-To. She realizes that just being by her friends in general will always put them in danger.
If that was never finished, if a like-minded person with a little bit of VFX skills could fix that up it would be awesome!
Would it be possible to snip the “and its people” part? I’m mostly thinking about constraints in terms of available space for the new lines.
If we were to go for the politics explanation route, then I at the very least agree that it being “the last night of her training” needs to be replaced with something else. Make it clear that she didn’t train for that long with him.
But your description in general has brought back the following potential replacement in my mind: “Leia sensed that she could best serve the galaxy in other ways.” It’s more vague while still being more of an actual explanation than the whole “I sensed it was the end so I stopped.”