The stuff we can now do with Zorri alone warrants a v5. Sorry, Hal 😉
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1tiDKw2bx3SstVF2k7Sr_Q4eaccAoXCwd?usp=sharing
While I do like the idea in terms of how it lines up with things, it reeks a little too much of Reva for me. The idea that a tiny, mostly untrained child could either blow up an entire ship or take an entire lightsaber through the torso just because they have some angry thoughts is kinda insane.
Yeah I cannot find that audio clip of Leia grunting for the life of me. Hopefully Hal still has it accessible through Ascendant’s timeline because Octorox shut down his Lego audio files a while back.
My goal was actually to have it line up so that you cut out all the words that I gave you. Did you try it that way as well? There is a noticeable cut to me at least.
I’ve added two quiet options to the same link - https://drive.google.com/drive/u/1/folders/12XeFsicStMhkSPQO2x1haMWOkhJaPZRy
My first thought is that I still don’t like what they did with Poe. Before this movie, I thought that Poe had come from the New Republic military, which would give each main character a very different background, with Poe being the heroic Republic pilot, Finn being a dastardly Stormtrooper, and Rey being a scavenger from nowhere. Now the dynamic is far less interesting. So I thought since we’re able to change pretty much any voice now, that Zorri could have different dialogue, indicating that Poe was only posing as a Spice Runner for a while to infiltrate Zorri’s crew:
“Your friend never told you? He worked undercover as a spice runner for a long time.”
“I’m still digging myself out of the hole you put me in when you were called back to the Resistance.”
The bigger issue with Poe’s scenes is that there’s almost an arc but not quite. It would be really nice if we could establish that Poe has some reason to believe that people won’t join the war, perhaps stemming from his inability to recruit Zorri to the Resistance years ago. So the conversation between Poe and Zorri on the rooftop could be changed to indicate this, since Zorri’s mouth is always covered.
Or, we could use this opportunity to shore up the ‘For Skywalker!’ subplot that Ascendant introduces. The first indication of Luke’s inspiration is the festival, and the final result is the massive fleet and the voices, but it feels like there could be one more clue to this result:
“Wanna come with me?”
“I can’t walk out on this war. Not until it’s over. Maybe it is. We sent out a call for help at the battle of Crait. Nobody came. Everyone’s so afraid. They’ve given up.
“And then they saw Luke take on the whole First Order all by himself. Things are changing, Poe. The First Order wants us to believe that we are all alone…but there are more of us.”
I wanted to repost this here so that I can hear more thoughts about new Zorri lines. I do think that with v4 of Ascendant we’ve given Finn’s character some purpose with Jannah and co. being directly inspired by him. I think these changes would also elevate Poe’s character in a similar way. I’ll start creating a Zorri voice clone.
Back to the restructured version of the Leia death scene… I have three different Maz lines to choose from so far. If you don’t particularly like any of them, I can always generate more, it’s not big deal:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/12XeFsicStMhkSPQO2x1haMWOkhJaPZRy?usp=sharing
The next step for me is to create a voice clone specifically of Rey when she’s on Ahch-To. I was originally going to use this for two purposes:
But now it sounds like if we did reinstate Leia knowing a secret about Rey, that we’d prefer it to be that Luke told Leia her lineage. In which case, “She still trained me” would work.
Yeah it would take a ton of work to do all that. Although it does sound vaguely familiar to how I’d wish to expand on Rey’s background in a more canon-centric way. Like your idea, it would need to be clear that Rey’s father (Dathan, I think?) grew disillusioned with the cult on Exegol and escaped on Ochi’s ship from there. But not before stealing none other than Luke Skywalker’s lightsaber from there!
That’s right, one VFX change at the beginning would be to put Luke Skywalker’s floating hand in a medical container just like in the comics.
But Dathan grows weary of the Force in general and pawns off the lightsaber to collectors before settling down on Jakku with a woman he meets there. It makes its way to Maz from there along with the supposed story of how it was acquired (assumed to be an extreme exaggeration). Which would explain why Maz says its “a good story for another time” because she doesn’t even believe it.
No clue how any of this could be communicated through lines though as it’s merely an expansion of stuff present in the movie so no lines could be replaced. But I like the idea that the Skywalker blade calls out to Rey in TFA because it was quite literally rescued from the Sith by her dad.
Speaking of which, it would be a nice touch if we could hear Leia gasp, or hear her breath get heavy in the moment she senses it. A moment of breathtaking shock.
This is already a change present in Ascendant. I took Carrie’s grunt noises for Leia in Lego Star Wars The Force Awakens. Not sure if I still have the raw file though, I’d have to go searching through my Drive.
Also, RL cleaned up the audio files quite a bit ago. The delay in making the line has been my fault entirely I’ve been busy doing other things tonight. I’ll get to it tomorrow afternoon.
He wouldn’t actually be blue, would he? Lmao
In all seriousness though it’s not a bad idea.
Alright I’ve sent off the Maz audio sources to RogueLeader for background noise removal. That’s the most we can do in that regard for now. Heal vs. save is an interesting conversation, though. On the one hand, Kylo is definitely plagued by darkness, rather than have a dark heart. He’s definitely a broken individual who needs to be repaired. But “save” puts more of the blame on external factors rather than himself - like it’s Palpatine who was the reason for his fall (which isn’t far from the truth).
That’s true. I hope you still consider the Han death flashback, though!
And to answer your last point, it’s mostly due to cadence and the varying volume/EQ of the audio across different sources and even scenes.
EDIT: Before I forget, the only place where Rey can comment on her feeling responsible for Leia’s death is right before she says “I’m never leaving this place, I’m doing what you did.” It would have to replace her comment about her vision on the dark throne. Just spit-balling some ideas here: “Leia is dead because of my moment of weakness. It’s not safe to be by me.” or “If I hadn’t lashed out at Ren Leia would still be alive. It’s my fate to cause pain.” I actually think the first one lines up perfectly - it was a moment of weakness that caused Luke to go to Ahch-To originally, as well.
Awesome! I guess now the concern is whether Rey would actually be willing to sacrifice Leia for Ben. Now, obviously it’s what Leia wants her to do, but Rey should really be putting up some resistance to such a simple command. So maybe instead of “Together, Rey” we could do “You must take my strength, Rey.” Just to have her be more firm about it.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1trR7kJBrGgQlINqKPUuq9MFR9gAKc3zB/view?usp=sharing
I’ll see if I can’t grab some Maz lines for a voice clone. Do you think I should only use TROS as a source or should I tap into TFA? The problem is that TROS doesn’t give her many lines.
I see where you’re getting at with visions being the easy way out. But I think in this case it’s 100% warranted. As I said before, Rey says that he can’t stop seeing what he did to his father on Pasaana. He’s about to make the same mistake he made with Han by striking down Rey. By showing Han’s death before he does it, it’s like Kylo’s subconscious telling him: “Hey, no, we’ve done this before, we don’t like how it ended.”
We also make his later vision of Han not come completely out of nowhere. But if you want this vision to also not come out of nowhere, then we’d need to see flashes of Han’s death even sooner in the movie.
As for why he goes to Vader’s mask, I think it’s simply because Palpatine is a notorious liar. He wants to make sure that Vader really never was speaking to him and Palps isn’t taking credit for something real. Granted, I do see the appeal in Palpatine saying something like “I am the only voice you will ever hear in your head” earlier on and then Han’s voice is what awakens him.
Eddie, I was actually thinking of Leia telling Rey what to do. Here is how that line might sound:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DiyTjWsPY6HjbypGBt8kU0KL0gPIjRAB/view?usp=sharing
Rey says [earlier in the movie] that he can’t stop seeing what he did to his father, so anything that instantly establishes that link should work. And it needs to be startling enough to stop Kylo mid-swing, anyways.
Just realized I said our golden ticket right here. Try putting flashes of Kylo killing Han after he raises his lightsaber. Try to replicate the style of the visions we created for the beginning of Ascendant.
You can put the softer “Ben, come home” when he caresses his face before falling.
I suppose my thinking is that it needs to use recognizable audio from TFA. Rey says that he can’t stop seeing what he did to his father, so anything that instantly establishes that link should work. And it needs to be startling enough to stop Kylo mid-swing, anyways.
I might be able to access the computer a bit today for the lines, we’ll see.
Much agreed. The idea that Rey feels responsible for the death of Leia is pretty astonishing - way more impactful than the Chewbacca fakeout. I’d have to see if there is a way to implement such an AI line later on. “Leia died because of me”. I also think Leia’s last energy being put into Ben physically rather than just so he can see her one last time is much better. I was thinking about it last night, and it actually also explains why her body doesn’t vanish until Ben dies.
Granted, it wouldn’t explain why Ben’s body vanishes despite putting all of his energy into Rey. But maybe that can be handwaved with the whole dyad thing. Plus, it technically means that the life-force of Leia is living on in Rey along with Ben.
I really think it would prove beneficial to use the shot of Leia laying down during the healing process. Instead of focusing your VFX efforts on the ghostly effect, you might be able to remove the medallion? Even if you can’t, I suppose it really isn’t the end of the world for it to be there. Most casual fans have no idea what it even is. And for the people that do know what it is, perhaps Leia is using it is a way to focus her energy transfer on Ben? I’m sure his residual energy is still all over it since Han probably let him have it as a kid.
Also, just wondering, what about Han’s yell was odd? I’m pretty sure somebody else on the forum has used it in the exact place before (I copied the idea from them).
As for Maz’s line, we can be even clearer. Maz is in tune with the Force, so she should know what’s going on. “To heal her son now, will take all the strength she has left.” You still have the double meaning to “heal”.
I do like the idea. A few things that are missing:
Han’s yell of “Ben!” from TFA should be the sound that interrupts his attack.
The shots of Leia need to be reimplemented somehow during the healing process to make it clearer that while life is leaving her its being given to Ben.
I didn’t mean to diss that incredible work - I think it’s 100% necessary for the end of the Skywalker saga. I only brought it up because it’s worth considering in the discussion of how powerful Force ghosts ought to be.
Also, the way the scene plays out originally is a more blatant ripoff of Iron Man vs. Thanos. I’d say adding the ghosts and changing her line actually alleviates some of those similarities.
Well it’s never explicitly confirmed in canon whether Obi-Wan knew Yoda’s location while alive. I could just as easily assume he didn’t know it as a safeguard in case he was ever caught by the Empire and interrogated.
I’m also pretty sure that the current canon explanation for how Leia was able to contact Kylo on the Death Star wreckage is that ghost Luke taught her how to Force project herself in an instant. Dumb, I know. But it doesn’t stop there. The canon explanation for how Anakin becomes a Force ghost is that he is taught in an instant by Kenobi’s ghost.
It’s just a problem in Star Wars that you have to overlook one way or another. The ghosts are op (just like in the Lego games). And we’ve made them even more overpowered already because they assist in being able to kill Palpatine once and for all. I personally don’t see the harm in Luke divulging a secret about Rey to Leia so she knows what she’s getting into by training her.
I guess the difference is that the information that is revealed by the ghosts is never something that could massively change the outcome of the entire plot like what you described. In Luke’s case, it if anything only makes the potential for him to fall to the dark side greater because Vader is able to exploit is newfound connection with Leia. And in Rey’s case, it only provides her further justification as for why she should face her fears.
I will agree that the script writers were definitely only considering the emotional impact of the reveals in this movie, not whether they make sense logically based on what came before.
Yeah but I happen to agree with Hal that Leia piecing together her lineage is insanely dumb. The only way it makes sense is in the context of the novelization where she was already having frequent conversations with Luke’s voice so it’s not a stretch to imagine that he told her - and he knows because he’s omniscient now or something.
Personally, I’d be fine with Luke saying “Because you’re a Palpatine? I had told Leia about it.” But Hal said he doesn’t like the idea of ghosts having that much power over things. I’d push back against that with the fact that it was Obi-Wan’s ghost who all but tells Luke that Leia is his sister so it’s not unprecedented whatsoever. Then again, Obi Wan knew that secret in life, but that’s a mild distinction.
True, but the two are inextricably linked. As Palpatine says, it’s her birthright to rule there. It’s clear that the dark side calls out to Rey (TLJ) and shows her these dark visions because of her heritage. It’s why Kylo Ren doesn’t experience the same things. While it doesn’t make much sense biologically speaking, one could think of it like the dark side as an entity gunning for the rightful heir to the Sith.