Jar Jar Bricks

Re-dubbing Luke’s line into a question also works marvelously:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LpkUB5LmNJ4Sd3xEGWH4UKNBx145tait/view?usp=sharing

It’s truly incredible what technology has allowed us to do.

Now, for context, let me be clear as to what “some things are stronger than blood” means at this point. In original TROS, it is a continuation of what they were just talking about. With the addition of “Final lesson” I’m hoping it’s clear that he’s changing topics. If you look at when he did this in TLJ, he would state the thesis of the lesson he was going to teach her immediately after this line about the lesson. Then, he would proceed explain his reasoning as to why that thesis is true.

So, in this case, he’s changing topics away from Palpatine’s supposed involvement in her conception. Then, the point of his lesson is that having this blood infused with all the power of the Force itself isn’t all its cracked up to be. He uses the example of Leia. She couldn’t even finish her training because she knew there was too much potential darkness inside of her. But Leia knew there would be somebody one day with both that power AND the spirit to overcome that darkness. However we want to word the flashback voiceover I’m fine with, but I’d prefer it to line up with what I’m describing, roughly.

Here’s some options for the first part of the dyad duel. Just so people who doubted any of this was possible before don’t anymore haha:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1FQYpAd-CS3KHYHjn2mbEK30uiNW9g59i?usp=sharing

I think we can all win here. We just need to play nice together.

I don’t have the editing skills to see the other collaborative idea to fruition. But I can certainly supply the lines to make all this possible. There would be three edits all based on Ascendant, although certainly not all of them need to be hosted by Hal (unless he’s cool with that). I would only need the smaller 1080p version, too.

1. Rey Palpatine (original)
2. Rey Chosen One (preserves TLJ’s reveals but Rey is still special)
3. Rey Nopatine (Palpatine lies, still a scavenger from nowhere)

By the way, Kylo’s new AI voice is amazing. I get a usable line that sounds indistinguishable from the real deal every 3-4 generations. I used to have to dig through hundreds of them to find something usable.

But I still don’t want the misinterpretation that she shares the same blood as him.

Oops I misread what you said.

What I’m trying to say is that Luke doesn’t necessarily need to say the Force made them here, just that their purpose is to kill him. This takes on a sinister meaning in Rey’s confrontation with Palpatine because he always wanted his chosen heir to kill him, so this can still be a part of Palpatine’s influence over the Force’s creations.

Something like: “Because you’re a Palpatine? We were made to kill him.” It’s not specified who made them, just what the intention was behind it.

I like that new line. Anything that makes things more vague is fine by me.

But we aren’t necessarily talking about Rey’s blood specifically, is the thing. I’m shifting the meaning of the lesson to be that, for all the power in the Skywalker bloodline and Rey’s, it was all for naught because their spirits weren’t strong enough to overcome the dark inclinations of the Force. Leia saw somebody who would have the spirit to do such a thing.

It’s also cool if what Luke tells Rey to do is what she tells Palpatine (“I’ve come to end you”). Then Palpatine nonchalantly is like - “Yeah, that’s what I always wanted.” It immediately dispels the pep talk that he gave her, and returns the stakes to the scene.

I do wonder if it might be possible to add in there that their bond is stronger than fate itself. This way we make it clear exactly how both of them avoid the destinies they know they have with the Sith throne.

EDIT:
"Now, the Emperor wants us to fight each other, so the strongest of us can inherit the throne. But he doesn’t realize we are connected as one in spirit by the raw power of the Force. Our bond transcends fate itself. We can end him and the Sith, and create a new order, together…”

I’m glad you recognize the comedy and irony in it as well. I touched on that quite a while ago on this page. I love the idea that Palpatine thought he has such a mastery of the Force that he could influence its own creations to serve his own will. That didn’t work out well for him the first time, yet he tries it again! Really funny stuff.

I really don’t think we have to pick one or the other. The audience is smart enough to pick one or the other themselves based on the pieces we already have put in place. This way, we are experiencing Rey’s conflict of identity exactly as how she perceives it in the moment.

But I love that definition of the dyad so we should keep that.

Yeah, let’s not modify the Ochi stuff any further.

I really want to steer clear of everybody being related to each other, especially with the Reylo kiss. The power in them is of the Force manifest in both its aspects (powerful light, powerful dark), not Palpatine’s, but he is claiming that they are his own creations regardless because he claims mastery over the whole Force. I like what we currently have because Luke is refuting Palpatine’s involvement in creating them by saying they were meant to kill him, but then later on Palpatine says that’s what he always wanted them to do. So perhaps he did still have a hand in creating them. It just gives us yet another twist moment, and leaves us unsure which of these narratives is the truth.

That then becomes it’s own reveal scene between Finn and Poe. “He wanted her alive” is already removed by Ascendant, and I’d keep it that way. Instead, the scene merely reveals that Ochi had been assigned to search for Rey and bring her to the Emperor, assumably when she was a child. Perhaps he wanted to collect her and Kylo at one point so that they would fight each other in front of the throne. But her rough life as a scavenger was perhaps something Palpatine hadn’t expected, and saw as a benefit so left her there. We don’t have to change any existing dialogue for this. Although we could replace “He wanted her alive” with “But he wanted her to be alone”.

This way we could reinstate Rey recognizing his ship, but we’d have to remove when she explains that her parents specifically were on it to Finn.

I don’t think Hal will be particularly interested in using AI voices to this extent for his personal projects. Perhaps at least until we see how good it sounds now 😉

One other thing to mention - I’m currently in disagreement about Kylo’s final paragraph to her for reasons I’ve posted on the other thread. Here’s how that was before:
"Now, the Emperor wants us to fight each other, so his most worthy heir can claim the throne. But he hasn’t realized the strength of our connection, Rey… a bond, not of blood, but of raw power in the Force. We can end him and the Sith, and create a new order, together…”

I also think I should forward my own perspective on the ultimate goal of this edit from the Rey Nobody edit threat. While Eddie is right on for a lot of it, it’s only one matter of interpretation that he’s sharing:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

The other idea more or less amounts to Rey Chosen One. The perspective I’m trying to favor over there is that Rey is simply the second chosen one created by the Force since Palpatine cheated death, and just like usual Palpatine is trying to use what the Force intended to destroy him for his own gain. Only this time, he’s lying that Rey and the Skywalkers belong to him alone. The reveal in the hangar is later revealed to be a lie [with Luke] clarifying that they were created by the Force only to destroy Palpatine. Then we get a second twist of the truth in that Palpatine claims he always intended for her to kill him, so perhaps what he said wasn’t a lie all along. But, in all likelihood, it is one since she overcomes him without using the dark side, claiming herself a Jedi and Skywalker (earning the latter in every way except exact genetic makeup).

…the idea we have on the other thread can never be Rey Nobody in essence, because Rey, despite being made by nobody (the Force itself) and raised as a nobody by nobodies, is still somebody of extreme importance in the grand scheme of things. But I think removing the direct lineage to Palpatine makes things more palatable, and for those who preferred a direct link to him for whatever reason, they can still imagine that Palpatine did maybe have a hand in how the Force designed them, despite the conclusion of everything pointing to the contrary (ya know, the part where Palpatine finally admits she’s nothing but a scavenger girl).

Precisely.

Again, my only worry is the scene between Kylo and Palps we positioned before Endor wherein Palpatine is just straight up telling him to kill her again. Plus, I really like the idea that Palpatine is equally fine with either Kylo or Rey to take the throne. It makes what he says to Kylo in the intro genuine. It also allows whatever happens between Rey and Kylo to still be a part of his plan. We mention the fact they share the same fate earlier, we don’t want to take Kylo entirely off the table immediately after saying that.

If you think back to TLJ, Snoke isn’t giving Rey a fair chance whatsoever. He’s literally holding her in place and forcing Kylo to kill her. I just have a hard time buying that was something Palpatine intended to be a “challenge” for Rey to overcome and become more powerful. It’s only because of Kylo’s interest in her that she lives. They don’t conflict with each other, they fight as one. This is clearly not what Palpatine would want.

NeverarGreat said:

Since there are discussions amounting to Rey Palpatine edits in other threads, I thought I’d post this idea here.

I’d say this is a mischaracterization of things, at least at this point in the other thread. The other idea more or less amounts to Rey Chosen One. The perspective I’m trying to favor over there is that Rey is simply the second chosen one created by the Force since Palpatine cheated death, and just like usual Palpatine is trying to use what the Force intended to destroy him for his own gain. Only this time, he’s lying that Rey and the Skywalkers belong to him alone. In that way, I’d say we’re employing similar tactics. The reveal in the hangar is later revealed to be a lie, in my case by Luke, clarifying that they were created by the Force only to destroy Palpatine. Then we get a second twist of the truth in that Palpatine claims he always intended for her to kill him, so perhaps what he said wasn’t a lie all along. But, in all likelihood, it is one since she overcomes him without using the dark side, claiming herself a Jedi and Skywalker (earning the latter in every way except exact genetic makeup).

I like what you have listed right now because it cleverly uses the concept of visions in such a way that they are supposed to happen one way or another. This is something Star Wars has never truly explained except by saying “Always in motion is the future”. However, I agree with Raditz that your choice of location for revealing the lie of Rey Palpatine might not work exactly as I’m not sure what you’re trying to say there, either. And, ultimately, it might be frustrating to some viewers to have a potential explanation for her abnormally high levels of power, only to have not a single part of it be true, and with no other suggested alternative. This is one reason why the dyad might benefit an idea like yours, because it would let her tap into the power of the Skywalkers. You’d just have to specify that it started because of Snoke mindlinking them, so Rey can still be a complete nobody and not be fated to be linked to an important family like the Skywalkers.

All that being said, the idea we have on the other thread can never be Rey Nobody in essence, because Rey, despite being made by nobody (the Force itself) and raised as a nobody by nobodies, is still somebody of extreme importance in the grand scheme of things. But I think removing the direct lineage to Palpatine makes things more palatable, and for those who preferred a direct link to him for whatever reason, they can still imagine that Palpatine did maybe have a hand in how the Force designed them, despite the conclusion of everything pointing to the contrary (ya know, the part where Palpatine finally admits she’s nothing but a scavenger girl).

The problem is that “power” doesn’t necessarily mean darkness in the context of Star Wars, which is what we’re trying to get at here. I also don’t think it’s worth stating Rey’s future role as a sentinel unless it was somehow what Leia aspired to be, thus she’s continuing Leia’s own path in her stead. So…

"She was quick to learn in our training. But Leia was vigilant of her potential darkness, choosing instead to serve the people, as our mother once did. She surrendered her saber to me, and said it would be picked up again by someone with a spirit to ward off the dark.”

“She was quick to learn in our training. But Leia was vigilant of the inner darkness she could awaken, and chose to serve the people of the galaxy instead. She surrendered her saber to me, and said it would be picked up again by someone with the spirit to face that darkness.”

The implication here is that Leia chose to become a Jedi sentinel. This would finally explain why the hell Rey has a yellow lightsaber at the end of the movie: she’s literally continuing Leia’s Jedi path exactly where it left off as a Jedi sentinel herself. I’d be down to literally state that Leia chose to become a Jedi sentinel, but that risks alienating people who don’t know exactly what that entails. It might also conflict with canon content which states that Leia did give up her Jedi path entirely.

I made a slight modification to your other line:

“Luke saw the same fate in me. But only together can we resist it.”

EDIT: Here’s how that more canon-breaking/casual alienating one might sound - "She was quick to learn in our training. But Leia was vigilant of the inner darkness she could awaken, and chose to serve the people as a Jedi Sentinel. She surrendered her saber to me, and said it would be picked up again by someone with the spirit to face that darkness.”

I like all of that! The last idea still needs some work, but the sum of it will be that she doesn’t see the point in risking training herself up all the way to a Jedi because then there’s always the chance of falling to the dark side. As a normal person, she doesn’t necessarily have that risk. We just need to figure out how to translate this into a concise statement.

I just realized it’s actually a triple entendre. The meaning of her parents being nobody in status also applies.

EDIT: Here is the full thing as it stands

“Palpatine wants me to fight you.”

“Serving another master?”

“No. I have other plans…”

—

“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… who you are. The dark side is your birthright. Rey…”

“You’re lying.”

“You were right. Your parents were nobody. Nobody even conceived you in your mother.”

“Don’t!”

“You’re so much like my grandfather. So like Darth Vader…”

“I don’t want this!”

“…destined for power.”

“No!”

“You’ve seen it, haven’t you?”

(Rey sees the vision of herself on the Sith throne)

“Luke saw the same fate in me. We can only make our own together.”

“Stop talking.”

“I’m the only one who truly knows you.”

(Cutaway to heroes capture)

“When we first fought, in the forest, you reached out for the darkness inside you. You exposed yourself to Palpatine, and set yourself on the path toward your destiny… just as he’d intended…”

(Visions of Rey beating Kylo on Starkiller, falling into the dark cave, etc.)

“No!”

(A pedestal shatters and the mask of Vader falls to the ground)

“So that’s where you are.”

“Our paths have always been intertwined."

“No…”

"I’ll come tell you why.”

—

“Rey, I know the rest of our story.”

“Tell me.”

"Palpatine influenced the Force itself into creating life. First my grandfather, and then you. Both were once his chosen heir. You… are a rightful Palpatine.”

"Now, the Emperor wants us to fight each other, so his most worthy heir can claim the throne. But he hasn’t realized the strength of our connection, Rey… a bond, not of blood, but of raw power in the Force. We can end him and the Sith, and create a new order, together…”

—
“What are you most afraid of?”

“Myself…”

“Because you’re a Palpatine? The Force made us, to destroy him.”

“Final lesson. Rey… Some things are stronger than blood. Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi. Your destiny, if you don’t face Palpatine, it will mean the end of the Jedi. And the war will be lost. There’s something my sister would want you to have.”

—

“Leia’s saber.”

“She was quick to learn in our training. But Leia knew that a light as powerful as her own would cast a terrible shadow within her. She surrendered her saber to me and said that one day it would be picked up again by someone with the spirit to face that darkness.”

—

“Long have I waited… I never wanted you dead. I wanted you here, Empress Palpatine. You will take the throne. It is your birthright to rule here. It is in your blood.” (We’d remove “our blood” because they don’t share the same blood. Fortunately, that would be an easy cut because the camera switches perspective only for when he says that.)

“I haven’t come to lead the Sith. I’ve come to end them.”

“As a Jedi?”

“Yes.”

“No. Your hatred, your anger. You want to kill me. That is what I want. Kill me, and my spirit will pass into you, as all the Sith live in me. You will be Empress. We will be one.”

“All you want is for me to hate but I won’t. Not even you.”

“Weak. Your master, Luke Skywalker, was saved by his father. The only family you have here… is me.” (Everything after this point would be unaltered Ascendant v4).

The title/designation for this edit should probably be Nobody Rey Palpatine.

Here’s what I’m thinking for some of Kylo’s lines:

“You were right. Your parents were nobody. No body/Nobody had a part in your conception.”

Yes, “nobody” and “no body” sound the same when spoken aloud, but maybe that’s the point. It allows the audience to decide which origin for Rey they want to go with. “Nobody” would mean that Palpatine is lying by saying they are rightfully his, as the Force (not a person) alone made them. “No body” would mean that Palpatine used the Force to create her, and no actual body was involved in that process. I think we’re really onto something here by making both of these interpretations valid for people to hold coming out of the movie. This is the kind of actual, thought-provoking process that is the trademark of an actually good film.

“When we first fought, in the forest, you reached out for the darkness inside you. You exposed yourself to Palpatine, and set yourself on the path toward your destiny… just as he’d intended.”

GLogus, I wish you the best as well.

I think the problem is that we’re using the word “revealed”. I think the word “exposed” carries an implication that it was more about her tapping into the dark side than her exact location.

“Fight” would also work, but I’m trying to line up with the scene Ascendant shifted to before they go to Endor (after the big reveal):

“I sense the Jedi apprentice still lives”

“I know where she’s going. She’ll never become a Jedi.”

“Make sure of it. Kill her.”

So in the reveal scene Kylo is saying it like it really is, but Palpatine is still trying to act like he’s got his bets placed on Kylo - most likely to stroke his ego. So the question is, which way would he word it to Rey at the beginning? Does he want to unsettle her, or does he want to be honest?

As for the whole “imbued in his power” stuff, yeah, I just don’t think it’s necessary. Let’s say they’re imbued with the energy of the Force itself. Then, we can allow for both interpretations - that the Force made them to destroy Palpatine, or Palpatine wanted them made imbued with all the power of the Force so they could withstand his Sith spirit upon them killing him. All we need to do is simply steer clear of any language suggesting pure darkness. We upset one side of the crowd if we directly confirm one or the other. Plenty of people want Anakin to be the chosen one made to bring balance, and nothing more than that. And plenty of other people think he did a terrible job as the chosen one, and think it deserves some sort of dark explanation. We can satisfy both audiences here, I think.

Just so you know, I never intended for the dyad to be fully removed from the film. I just don’t think it’s worth placing a word to the concept in this moment so we can define it better. It’s incredibly vague what exactly it is in the movie because he’s spending half the time giving Rey a vocab lesson. Palpatine can put a proper name to it later on and give us even more added context - that’s something he’s known to do because of his familiarity with the intricacies of the Force.

Him wanting them to fight each other is the only way to explain why he is so incredibly indecisive about what he really wants in this movie. The real problem is Kylo’s line earlier: “Palpatine wants you dead”. Which is why I suggested replacing that with “Palpatine wants me to kill you”. Then, we learn the other half of that truth in this scene, that Palpatine would also be fine with Rey killing Kylo. So when he later says, “I never wanted you dead, I wanted you here, with me” that’s true, because he always either wanted Rey alive and Kylo dead, or Kylo alive and Rey dead.

I don’t oppose the rewrite about the forest at all.