Jar Jar Bricks

TestingOutTheTest said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

TestingOutTheTest said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Your changes suggest he is aware they are a dyad… only to discover they are a SUPER dyad. Not sure I like that tbh.

Still stand by this ^

Also RogueLeader, I think I’d probably just shut off the movie if I found out that the mind link (emphasis on mind) created by Snoke survived his death and literally allowed them to transfer a freaking lightsaber across that distance. Imo the dyad, even if it isn’t explained properly, is absolutely necessary.

Water literally gets onto Kylo Ren’s hand and Rey experiences visions of his future upon touching his hand.

IMO that is actually a hint towards there being something more going on than a mind link (the dyad). Sure, it probably wasn’t originally written with that intention, but that was one of the things I disliked about TLJ until TROS. You’re telling me that Luke projecting himself killed him, but then Snoke is so powerful that he can allow two people to see/touch each other from across the galaxy AND transport physical matter all without dying? And when he does die, “his” connection persists? Give me a break. When Luke dies the dice he transported fade away, the same should happen to their connection if Snoke solely created it.

We don’t know how this power works, all we know is that Snoke connected them, so we can INFER that it works that way.

Well then, I would say that it is a pretty darn easy inference to make then. Or maybe it’s just me?

I honestly simply hate the idea that Snoke had anything to do with establishing their connection. I’m okay with him knowing about it and using it to his advantage to lure Rey in, but nothing beyond that. But I’ve said that so many times at this point that I’m starting to sound like a broken record.

Plus, I’ve already got an edit which does that for me. If other people don’t agree, then I won’t force them to make that change as well.

TestingOutTheTest said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Your changes suggest he is aware they are a dyad… only to discover they are a SUPER dyad. Not sure I like that tbh.

Still stand by this ^

Also RogueLeader, I think I’d probably just shut off the movie if I found out that the mind link (emphasis on mind) created by Snoke survived his death and literally allowed them to transfer a freaking lightsaber across that distance. Imo the dyad, even if it isn’t explained properly, is absolutely necessary.

Water literally gets onto Kylo Ren’s hand and Rey experiences visions of his future upon touching his hand.

IMO that is actually a hint towards there being something more going on than a mind link (the dyad). Sure, it probably wasn’t originally written with that intention, but that was one of the things I disliked about TLJ until TROS. You’re telling me that Luke projecting himself killed him, but then Snoke is so powerful that he can allow two people to see/touch each other from across the galaxy AND transport physical matter all without dying? And when he does die, “his” connection persists? Give me a break. When Luke dies the dice he transported fade away, the same should happen to their connection if Snoke solely created it.

Oh yeah on a second listening I can kinda hear what you’re talking about on sherlock’s clip. It’s a very subtle difference yet again, but honestly I don’t think I’d notice it if it was my first viewing.

Are you sure there isn’t any way to spruce up what he provided?

jarbear said:

As for the dyad thing, anything that implies they were NOT this Dyad thing … or connected in some way at the time of TFA would be a big no for me. (it helps explain Rey’s "instant level up/download Kylo’s TRAINED abilities)

+1

sherlockpotter said:

That being said, here’s my stab at “becoming” a Dyad. I kinda don’t want to use it now lol; but in the interest of fair play, I’ll offer it as a suggestion: https://streamable.com/uorkfi

That actually sounds really good to me (although I’m on my phone).

I’m just going to say it if it wasn’t already clear before, removing the dyad from this movie would be crossing a line for me that I wouldn’t feel even remotely comfortable with.

I don’t know how easy it would be to add that stuff back in if it were removed, but hopefully it wouldn’t be too bad.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Your changes suggest he is aware they are a dyad… only to discover they are a SUPER dyad. Not sure I like that tbh.

Still stand by this ^

Also RogueLeader, I think I’d probably just shut off the movie if I found out that the mind link (emphasis on mind) created by Snoke survived his death and literally allowed them to transfer a freaking lightsaber across that distance. Imo the dyad, even if it isn’t explained properly, is absolutely necessary.

By the way, if you wanted to go that route with Palpatine I would recommend the line “Your coming together will be your undoing” from one of the TROS trailers.

But then the problem becomes this: why wasn’t his original plan just to have Kylo bring Rey to him? Surely he would realize the potential exploits of a dyad. Your changes suggest he is aware they are a dyad… only to discover they are a SUPER dyad. Not sure I like that tbh.

I’m unsure whether the darkness rises and light to meet it line is referencing the dyad. Mostly because Snoke thought Kylo’s equal was Luke at first, and he would have no reason to suspect they were a dyad.

Also, the whole “there has been an awakening” is probably not a reference to the dyad either. I believe that is more a reference to the will of the force being put into motion, which all starts with Luke’s map ending up with Rey.

Like I said, I feel like it’s subtle, but maybe that’s just because I’m looking for it.

I would like an opinion - does poppa’s added in line feel natural to the rest of you? It’s the “you were right” line.

I only ask because I know what line was changed, and as a result I always am anticipating the subtle differences. Maybe it sounds just fine and I’m imagining it.

I feel like this is an important thing to discuss if we’re going to try the same thing again with another line.

I forgot to mention - if placing the word “become” in Kylo’s dyad sentence doesn’t sound natural then I don’t think it’s a good idea to put it in there. I feel like at that point it would cause more harm than good.

Brewzter said:

RogueLeader said:

It could be along the lines of the theory that Palpatine/Plagueis inadvertently created Anakin/the Chosen One. They thought they could use him, but in the end it was their undoing.

The story group has come out and disproved this many times:

https://imgur.com/a/nwqxEzX

Actually, we are taking about an inadvertent creation. I believe the current story is that Plagueis was messing around with midichlorians, and in response it was the force itself which created Anakin. So while they did not directly create him, their actions caused a response which did.

sherlockpotter said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

sherlockpotter said:

It’s the same reason why I don’t like Rey Palpatine. It makes her special because of what she is, not who she is. At least if she “becomes” a Dyad along the way, that’s mitigated somewhat. If she’s born a Dyad AND a Palpatine, she becomes a double-chosen one.

I believe our disagreement here can be figured out by how we view Star Wars.

If you were to take a look at old myths and legends, you would find that most of the time the characters that were written about were special because of what they were, and not necessarily who they were. George Lucas wrote Star Wars while taking inspiration from many of these old myths and legends, and that is why I advocate for elements of the story which might reflect this.

From what I understand, you take Star Wars from a more modern-day storytelling approach. That’s fine. Nothing wrong with it. But I find this other element of Star Wars is what makes it unique compared to most other stories you find today.

Totally fair and valid interpretation. I guess in my mind, Luke was special, Anakin was literally The Chosen One. It’s been done before. So I really dug Rian Johnson’s modern take on self-made heroes, not mythic ones. Let’s shake up the formula a bit. Make it a little more (in my mind) thought-provoking.

But I think that’s why I’m holding out for Rey Nobody, and you’ll probably stick with V2, eh?

In my mind, Rian Johnson’s modern take on Star Wars would have been wonderful in its own disconnected trilogy set in the Star Wars universe. But as part of the mythic Skywalker Saga? Meh, I’ll pass. That’s why I appreciate TROS’ attempts at bringing back some strangeness to the saga.

sherlockpotter said:

It’s the same reason why I don’t like Rey Palpatine. It makes her special because of what she is, not who she is. At least if she “becomes” a Dyad along the way, that’s mitigated somewhat. If she’s born a Dyad AND a Palpatine, she becomes a double-chosen one.

I believe our disagreement here can be figured out by how we view Star Wars.

If you were to take a look at old myths and legends, you would find that most of the time the characters that were written about were special because of what they were, and not necessarily who they were. George Lucas wrote Star Wars while taking inspiration from many of these old myths and legends, and that is why I advocate for elements of the story which might reflect this.

From what I understand, you take Star Wars from a more modern-day storytelling approach. That’s fine. Nothing wrong with it. But I find this other element of Star Wars is what makes it unique compared to most other stories you find today.

RogueLeader said:

Maybe Snoke did bridge their minds, which inadvertently solidified their bond and made them become a Dyad in the Force. So Snoke/Palpatine’s own machinations led to their undoing once again.

Pretty sure this is what Hal is going for. Although, if it was my trilogy of sequel fan edits I’d go all in on the “they’ve been a dyad for a really long time” approach. It just adds to the overall mysticism of the story (which I like about Star Wars), wherein the force hand-selected the two of them at some point to become a dyad when they didn’t even know each other.

And Hal, since you’re keeping Snoke’s mind bridge line I agree it would be best to change this line. Otherwise, in order for things to make sense you would need to insert “It is you” into TFA and remove Snoke’s mind bridge lines from TLJ. I know those changes would be controversial, and you most likely don’t want to return to them, either. So just do this small change to have things make a little more sense for what we currently have in your trilogy.

bbghost said:

I’d always just assumed that was Snoke lying through his crooked yellow teeth to further manipulate Kylo, as Sith(-adjacent) lords are wont to do. He’d seen into Kylo’s mind and discovered their bond, deciding to take credit for it to try and undermine/complicated their feelings for each other.

I have no doubt that is most likely going to be the canon answer at some point (or already), and was the intention the writers of TROS had when creating the concept of the dyad. But it’s just kinda messy. And they didn’t have the opportunity (like us) to go back and change certain small details in the previous films.

Fair enough, Brewzter. I just don’t like it when these kind of crucial details rely on the audience knowing what the character said was a lie, especially when it is never explicitly proven to be one. This is why I remove it from TLJ, but apparently that removes one of the greatest film twists of all time (sarcasm). Personally, I feel that Snoke taking advantage of their mind link instead of creating it is still a good twist, but whatever.

I was going to bring up the “It is you” line in Hal’s TFA edit thread but I realized he was likely already finished with that movie. It’s completely voiced by Adam Driver in the lego game and would be pretty easy to insert, but ultimately it just creates problems if Snoke is the one who claims that he bridged their minds.

Pretty sure the only reason JJ wrote it that way (“we’re a dyad in the force”) is because of a couple lines from TFA.

1. Kylo asking his officer “What girl?”, which gives the impression that he is aware of some mysterious girl out there that he keeps having visions/dreams of.
2. Kylo saying “It is you.” in early drafts of film TFA after Rey gets Anakin’s lightsaber. The line still appears in the novelization and is voiced by Adam Driver in the lego game. The line implies once again that he has had visions of her or knows there is some sort of connection between them.

You can get the audio from this point in TFA:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOgkJD3fzAo

Give it a whirl if you want, but personally it’s not that big of a deal to me so I won’t bother with it.

First, as for why the lightning disintegrates him in this movie, he was putting all of his UnLiMiTeD power into it. In ROTS, he was clearly creating a show for Anakin in order to tempt him.

Second, I wouldn’t mind the change to the word “become” (even though my TLJ edit removes Snoke admitting to bridging their minds). I say that because obviously at some point they’ve become a dyad in the force, I just prefer to leave it up to interpretation (my personal idea is that it started in the interrogation scene).

sherlockpotter said:

Don’t we literally see his face melting in the original cut? That doesn’t imply “Palpatine’s real look” to me.

Like I said, not very well implied in the film. He was purposely manipulating the visuals to look that way. Either that, or what you see “melting” is his fake face. Otherwise, why don’t other characters turn into a mini-Palpatine when they are electrocuted?

I believe the novelization that was released around the same time of the movie talks about it. Palpatine thinks to himself, and I’m paraphrasing here, that the face of Sidious will prove helpful in convincing the galaxy to stay by his side, and that the face of Palpatine has served its purpose.

So Hal’s change to ROTS just makes that idea more clear.

sherlockpotter said:

This may be totally impossible, but I’m just spitballing. If we cut around the “Hux is a spy” stuff, would it be possible to imply that Pryde kills Hux in order to merge the First Order with the Final Order on Palpatine’s…er, orders? So it’s like Pryde is staging a coup, as a Palpatine cultist, in order to bring the First Order resources to Exegol?

Not sure if there’s enough footage to effectively portray this, but I thought it was an intriguing angle. The Spy stuff can almost definitely be removed; I have an edit of the Poe’s return/“What did you do to the Falcon?” scene somewhere that I made as a proof of concept.

Removing the spy plot thread would be a really complicated matter which would remove several portions of the film. Imo not worth removing as it would make the pacing even more quick.

EDIT: My previous comment on everything else we discussed ended up on the previous page. Check that out as well if you want.