Jar Jar Bricks

Jar Jar Bricks said:

EDIT: On second thought, it might not. If Snoke knew about their connection and was using it to his advantage, I suppose removing Kylo’s line makes sense. And Palpatine would just be surprised by how powerful their dyad is, not the fact that there is a dyad, if you remove the other line.

Just wanna make sure you see this edit, Hal. I might be brain fried as well and am not considering an important detail so lmk.

jarbear said:

I definitely want to remove the Snoke line for sure now. Lol.

You and me both, partner. I would appreciate a link to whatever you come up with if you think it’s better than what I currently have.

The only thing I want to make sure we are NOT doing is chopping off Kylo’s “What Palpatine doesn’t know…” and Palpatine’s “a dyad in the force”. That could cause some issues between Hal’s idea and our idea.

EDIT: On second thought, it might not. If Snoke knew about their connection and was using it to his advantage, I suppose removing Kylo’s line makes sense. And Palpatine would just be surprised by how powerful their dyad is, not the fact that there is a dyad, if you remove the other line.

Hal 9000 said:

I guess leaving Snoke’s line but implying they’ve become a dyad since then would make it the least amount of dumb possible, but we’ll see what happens! Thanks for recapping that for me.

I agree, mostly because changing it to “become” still works in the context of removing Snoke’s line. Kylo says, “We’ve become a dyad in the force” but never specifies when. If you want it to be when Snoke bridges their minds, go for it. If you want it to be in the interrogation scene if that Snoke line is removed, go for it.

I think it’s a win-win for everyone.

Hal, to be honest, I’ve completely forgotten how we landed on this topic again LMAO. Once I remember, I’ll edit this post or create a new one.

EDIT: Ok, so originally it was brought up because I was trying to convince everyone not to remove references to the dyad in TROS because it would create some issues, especially with Snoke’s mind bridging still in place. Then I brought up how removing it would help clear a lot of questions, such as how is Snoke powerful enough to create such a connection without dying, and to a lesser degree explain why Palpatine isn’t aware of something his pawn supposedly created. If Snoke didn’t create it, but was relying on it, it’s at least a little more understandable. It would also open the door for their connection to have started in TFA in the interrogation scene, where Rey essentially learns all of Kylo’s training in an instant.

I’ve already done it (although I’m sure you could do it even better)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikD6D9-OU1g

While I agree it’s still somewhat messy, to me at least it is the most sound answer. Sure, you can punch a hole in it by saying that since Snoke still is aware of their connection, why is Palpatine surprised by it. But ultimately, the way Snoke speaks without that one line could suggest that he either assumed they would somehow get in contact, or he did know about their connection. Either way is good enough for me.

“It was I who bridged your minds” is the only problematic line imo. But people here prefer the twist that he orchestrated literally everything, which I can sort of understand.

I’m content enough with him scolding Kylo intentionally, knowing that it would “stoke Ren’s conflicted soul”, and as a result Rey would be more likely to see a chance of redemption in him. So in a way, he still orchestrates Rey coming to him, although he uses a tool which isn’t his own in order to do it.

jarbear said:

TL:DR version: Snoke’s mind bridge was intended for them to communicate, not the whole physical stuff which is contributed to the Dyad stuff. He didn’t know that, just wanted them to chat.

Fair enough. The problem I have with that is it isn’t made clear enough in the film that this is the case. I actually would blame TFA in this case. If TFA overtly set up that they had some mystical connection, it would be more believable that Snoke’s mind bridge would accelerate it. The problem, at least in my case, is that when Snoke says that line it appears that he is taking credit for everything, not just the chatting.

TestingOutTheTest said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

TestingOutTheTest said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Your changes suggest he is aware they are a dyad… only to discover they are a SUPER dyad. Not sure I like that tbh.

Still stand by this ^

Also RogueLeader, I think I’d probably just shut off the movie if I found out that the mind link (emphasis on mind) created by Snoke survived his death and literally allowed them to transfer a freaking lightsaber across that distance. Imo the dyad, even if it isn’t explained properly, is absolutely necessary.

Water literally gets onto Kylo Ren’s hand and Rey experiences visions of his future upon touching his hand.

IMO that is actually a hint towards there being something more going on than a mind link (the dyad). Sure, it probably wasn’t originally written with that intention, but that was one of the things I disliked about TLJ until TROS. You’re telling me that Luke projecting himself killed him, but then Snoke is so powerful that he can allow two people to see/touch each other from across the galaxy AND transport physical matter all without dying? And when he does die, “his” connection persists? Give me a break. When Luke dies the dice he transported fade away, the same should happen to their connection if Snoke solely created it.

We don’t know how this power works, all we know is that Snoke connected them, so we can INFER that it works that way.

Well then, I would say that it is a pretty darn easy inference to make then. Or maybe it’s just me?

I honestly simply hate the idea that Snoke had anything to do with establishing their connection. I’m okay with him knowing about it and using it to his advantage to lure Rey in, but nothing beyond that. But I’ve said that so many times at this point that I’m starting to sound like a broken record.

Plus, I’ve already got an edit which does that for me. If other people don’t agree, then I won’t force them to make that change as well.

TestingOutTheTest said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Your changes suggest he is aware they are a dyad… only to discover they are a SUPER dyad. Not sure I like that tbh.

Still stand by this ^

Also RogueLeader, I think I’d probably just shut off the movie if I found out that the mind link (emphasis on mind) created by Snoke survived his death and literally allowed them to transfer a freaking lightsaber across that distance. Imo the dyad, even if it isn’t explained properly, is absolutely necessary.

Water literally gets onto Kylo Ren’s hand and Rey experiences visions of his future upon touching his hand.

IMO that is actually a hint towards there being something more going on than a mind link (the dyad). Sure, it probably wasn’t originally written with that intention, but that was one of the things I disliked about TLJ until TROS. You’re telling me that Luke projecting himself killed him, but then Snoke is so powerful that he can allow two people to see/touch each other from across the galaxy AND transport physical matter all without dying? And when he does die, “his” connection persists? Give me a break. When Luke dies the dice he transported fade away, the same should happen to their connection if Snoke solely created it.

Oh yeah on a second listening I can kinda hear what you’re talking about on sherlock’s clip. It’s a very subtle difference yet again, but honestly I don’t think I’d notice it if it was my first viewing.

Are you sure there isn’t any way to spruce up what he provided?

jarbear said:

As for the dyad thing, anything that implies they were NOT this Dyad thing … or connected in some way at the time of TFA would be a big no for me. (it helps explain Rey’s "instant level up/download Kylo’s TRAINED abilities)

+1

sherlockpotter said:

That being said, here’s my stab at “becoming” a Dyad. I kinda don’t want to use it now lol; but in the interest of fair play, I’ll offer it as a suggestion: https://streamable.com/uorkfi

That actually sounds really good to me (although I’m on my phone).

I’m just going to say it if it wasn’t already clear before, removing the dyad from this movie would be crossing a line for me that I wouldn’t feel even remotely comfortable with.

I don’t know how easy it would be to add that stuff back in if it were removed, but hopefully it wouldn’t be too bad.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Your changes suggest he is aware they are a dyad… only to discover they are a SUPER dyad. Not sure I like that tbh.

Still stand by this ^

Also RogueLeader, I think I’d probably just shut off the movie if I found out that the mind link (emphasis on mind) created by Snoke survived his death and literally allowed them to transfer a freaking lightsaber across that distance. Imo the dyad, even if it isn’t explained properly, is absolutely necessary.

By the way, if you wanted to go that route with Palpatine I would recommend the line “Your coming together will be your undoing” from one of the TROS trailers.

But then the problem becomes this: why wasn’t his original plan just to have Kylo bring Rey to him? Surely he would realize the potential exploits of a dyad. Your changes suggest he is aware they are a dyad… only to discover they are a SUPER dyad. Not sure I like that tbh.

I’m unsure whether the darkness rises and light to meet it line is referencing the dyad. Mostly because Snoke thought Kylo’s equal was Luke at first, and he would have no reason to suspect they were a dyad.

Also, the whole “there has been an awakening” is probably not a reference to the dyad either. I believe that is more a reference to the will of the force being put into motion, which all starts with Luke’s map ending up with Rey.

Like I said, I feel like it’s subtle, but maybe that’s just because I’m looking for it.

I would like an opinion - does poppa’s added in line feel natural to the rest of you? It’s the “you were right” line.

I only ask because I know what line was changed, and as a result I always am anticipating the subtle differences. Maybe it sounds just fine and I’m imagining it.

I feel like this is an important thing to discuss if we’re going to try the same thing again with another line.

I forgot to mention - if placing the word “become” in Kylo’s dyad sentence doesn’t sound natural then I don’t think it’s a good idea to put it in there. I feel like at that point it would cause more harm than good.

Brewzter said:

RogueLeader said:

It could be along the lines of the theory that Palpatine/Plagueis inadvertently created Anakin/the Chosen One. They thought they could use him, but in the end it was their undoing.

The story group has come out and disproved this many times:

https://imgur.com/a/nwqxEzX

Actually, we are taking about an inadvertent creation. I believe the current story is that Plagueis was messing around with midichlorians, and in response it was the force itself which created Anakin. So while they did not directly create him, their actions caused a response which did.

sherlockpotter said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

sherlockpotter said:

It’s the same reason why I don’t like Rey Palpatine. It makes her special because of what she is, not who she is. At least if she “becomes” a Dyad along the way, that’s mitigated somewhat. If she’s born a Dyad AND a Palpatine, she becomes a double-chosen one.

I believe our disagreement here can be figured out by how we view Star Wars.

If you were to take a look at old myths and legends, you would find that most of the time the characters that were written about were special because of what they were, and not necessarily who they were. George Lucas wrote Star Wars while taking inspiration from many of these old myths and legends, and that is why I advocate for elements of the story which might reflect this.

From what I understand, you take Star Wars from a more modern-day storytelling approach. That’s fine. Nothing wrong with it. But I find this other element of Star Wars is what makes it unique compared to most other stories you find today.

Totally fair and valid interpretation. I guess in my mind, Luke was special, Anakin was literally The Chosen One. It’s been done before. So I really dug Rian Johnson’s modern take on self-made heroes, not mythic ones. Let’s shake up the formula a bit. Make it a little more (in my mind) thought-provoking.

But I think that’s why I’m holding out for Rey Nobody, and you’ll probably stick with V2, eh?

In my mind, Rian Johnson’s modern take on Star Wars would have been wonderful in its own disconnected trilogy set in the Star Wars universe. But as part of the mythic Skywalker Saga? Meh, I’ll pass. That’s why I appreciate TROS’ attempts at bringing back some strangeness to the saga.

sherlockpotter said:

It’s the same reason why I don’t like Rey Palpatine. It makes her special because of what she is, not who she is. At least if she “becomes” a Dyad along the way, that’s mitigated somewhat. If she’s born a Dyad AND a Palpatine, she becomes a double-chosen one.

I believe our disagreement here can be figured out by how we view Star Wars.

If you were to take a look at old myths and legends, you would find that most of the time the characters that were written about were special because of what they were, and not necessarily who they were. George Lucas wrote Star Wars while taking inspiration from many of these old myths and legends, and that is why I advocate for elements of the story which might reflect this.

From what I understand, you take Star Wars from a more modern-day storytelling approach. That’s fine. Nothing wrong with it. But I find this other element of Star Wars is what makes it unique compared to most other stories you find today.

RogueLeader said:

Maybe Snoke did bridge their minds, which inadvertently solidified their bond and made them become a Dyad in the Force. So Snoke/Palpatine’s own machinations led to their undoing once again.

Pretty sure this is what Hal is going for. Although, if it was my trilogy of sequel fan edits I’d go all in on the “they’ve been a dyad for a really long time” approach. It just adds to the overall mysticism of the story (which I like about Star Wars), wherein the force hand-selected the two of them at some point to become a dyad when they didn’t even know each other.

And Hal, since you’re keeping Snoke’s mind bridge line I agree it would be best to change this line. Otherwise, in order for things to make sense you would need to insert “It is you” into TFA and remove Snoke’s mind bridge lines from TLJ. I know those changes would be controversial, and you most likely don’t want to return to them, either. So just do this small change to have things make a little more sense for what we currently have in your trilogy.

bbghost said:

I’d always just assumed that was Snoke lying through his crooked yellow teeth to further manipulate Kylo, as Sith(-adjacent) lords are wont to do. He’d seen into Kylo’s mind and discovered their bond, deciding to take credit for it to try and undermine/complicated their feelings for each other.

I have no doubt that is most likely going to be the canon answer at some point (or already), and was the intention the writers of TROS had when creating the concept of the dyad. But it’s just kinda messy. And they didn’t have the opportunity (like us) to go back and change certain small details in the previous films.