Never heard of that, but it looks like he had Kylo order the holocams, which doesn’t fall in line with his character as much as it does with Hux.
I actually leaned into the idea that Kylo didn’t commit many atrocities except for killing Han. For example, I used the canon idea that a Force storm Kylo couldn’t control destroyed the temple, and he didn’t actually kill anybody there intentionally. It makes it all the more tragic, and makes it more relatable to want Ben survive after his redemption (which is what happens). What I like about Kylo is that he’s trying to be somebody he isn’t, so when he finally becomes Ben again it’s more rewarding.
Off-topic now, but I’m really enjoying adding holocam droids to the battle of Crait. Essentially, at the beginning of it I’m having Hux insist that the whole thing is to be recorded for the galaxy to witness. This then leads into a custom Canto Bight scene I’m doing with Lando where the gamblers are betting on the outcome of the fight (because they see it as a game), which disgusts him. The holocam droids also explain why the First Order lets Finn and Rose escape to the base, because Hux wants the galaxy to see their weakness. And, finally, it allows the entire galaxy to see the badass Luke that inspires them.
You could replace the energy blade weapon with the tail of Alolan Exeggutor. The pun still works for the evolution.
Also, if anyone who’s watched the workprint wants to give feedback on anything that stood out - bad or good - I’d appreciate it! There’s no pressure, if you just want to watch the workprint, but if you do want to give your thoughts on it, then I’m very happy to hear them.
I will say though, one spot that I think is a standout is removing the dialogue with Rey in the cave. Personally, it was a mistake to have Rey “explaining” things. It took me out of the scene and had me feel, nothing. No impact before he actually speaking in that scene.
By simply removing the voice over, we are now engaged. It has more impact. It’s just better. Don’t tell us what is going on, let’s feel/see it for ourselves.
I might want a link to the workprint just to experience this. I’m also curious to see how well the echoes are cleared up.
Man, if it’s flawless enough, I’d wonder why Hal or Poppa didn’t do this.
Hal was right earlier. The emphasis on “end” isn’t there properly.
EDIT: Also, should mention I agree with Neerb’s thoughts about this line in general - never was a big deal to me.
Poppa’s edit actually doesn’t remove it, I’m pretty sure. I had to go in and remove it myself. Was pretty easy to do it seamlessly, though.
You’re going to have to cover up the crystal foxes with a bunch of Diancie.
I feel like Cubone fits an ex-stormtrooper for some reason.
I personally think it’s more tragic that Luke considered attacking him before he had truly made up his mind. After all, the title of this project is the “Tragedy of Vader”, and Ben is supposed to be the substitute for Anakin.
One really cool thing about this novelization is how much it leans into the concept of prophecies/visions in Star Wars. Luke believes the vision he saw in Ben’s head to be inevitable. He had already seen dark visions before on Dagobah and been unable to prevent them, so this makes sense. It adds to why Luke retreats in shame to the island, because he legitimately thinks if he returns he’ll just be making that vision he saw come true even faster.
But Rey comes to realize that these visions are just glimpses of potential futures, and oftentimes when you try to avoid them they end up becoming true simply because of that. Take Anakin for example. He saw visions of his wife dying, and in trying to save her they became true. And then, like father like son, Luke repeats the same mistake in a different way, but turns it around to inspire the galaxy.
This was the type of stuff I was looking for in the sequels - adding more depth to the story of Anakin/Vader. It’s a shame this stuff doesn’t appear in the films at all.
That wouldn’t really work logistically. Ben fails to properly make his crystal bleed which is what causes it to crack and need the crossguard design. I feel like Luke would notice if Ben’s lightsaber suddenly had a crossguard on it. Not to mention how Ben using his lightsaber would probably be a part of his training every day. So, yet again, how did Luke not notice the red blade until now?
Nah.
I wonder if his employment has anything to do with Luke’s upcoming appearances in various shows? I bet his methods are a lot cheaper and obviously look better than that CGI.
Will the First Order be Team Rocket? Would be funny to see some "R"s superimposed over all First Order banners.
Finn: “Oh, they hate that Pokemon!”
To emphasize how powerful Rey is you could always give her a… Reyquaza. I’ll see myself out.
When I get the chance I could see about making a mock up with both “I see them” and “you don’t need to say anything” - echo and all. I’d need to run it through audacity first but I’m sure it wouldn’t be too difficult.
It’s really a tightly bound mess. You pluck one string and the whole thing comes undone even worse. I’ve found that to be the case with a lot of suggested changes in this film.
I remember having this same conversation a while back. The problem with making her parents bad people is that the Palpy/Rey scene at the end relies on the whole “she will take her revenge!” spiel. He’s trying to get her to hate him. But if Palpatine is responsible for the killing of her parents, and they were bad people, then really Rey should be thanking Palps for neutralizing those scum bags. Not exactly the greatest strategy. And don’t even get me started on the fact that it makes no sense that they wouldn’t reveal her location to Ochi if they were bad.
Don’t get me wrong, it would have been better for them to be bad, but unfortunately the movie we have been given relies on them being good. Doing the opposite would involve removing way too much content and make the Rey/Palpatine scene kinda confusing.
But I do think the revenge she could be taking would be because she was alone for all those years because of Palpatine.
Well then somebody could easily make the argument that she probably had a better quality of life being alone than being with drunken parents who don’t give two shits about her (abuse).
I ran into this issue when writing my novelization and ultimately decided I had to go with good parents (but improved) because otherwise you’d have to change a lot. For example, Ochi would have to never encounter her parents and die while on the hunt for them. This then makes Rey unfamiliar with the dagger and his ship. Then that leaves the dyad fight in Kylo’s quarters devoid of content since there are no visions and not a whole lot to say except that she’s a Palpatine, which is supposed to happen in the hangar scene. Plus there would need to be a good enough reason for Rey to want to kill Palps with the dark side so the essence transfer works.
Ah, what a mess.
I remember having this same conversation a while back. The problem with making her parents bad people is that the Palpy/Rey scene at the end relies on the whole “she will take her revenge!” spiel. He’s trying to get her to hate him. But if Palpatine is responsible for the killing of her parents, and they were bad people, then really Rey should be thanking Palps for neutralizing those scum bags. Not exactly the greatest strategy. And don’t even get me started on the fact that it makes no sense that they wouldn’t reveal her location to Ochi if they were bad.
Don’t get me wrong, it would have been better for them to be bad, but unfortunately the movie we have been given relies on them being good. Doing the opposite would involve removing way too much content and make the Rey/Palpatine scene kinda confusing.
Here is what I’ve got for the Phasma scene thus far. I’m actually pretty satisfied with my first attempt:
As her stormtroopers hurried to set up a repeating blaster that could take out the scout walker, Phasma strode across the hangar with her rifle raised. Rose sent a hasty volley of shots her way, but the one shot that landed on target merely ricocheted off of Phasma’s shining armor to no discernible effect.
As Phasma rushed their position, Finn noticed that one of the executioner’s axes lay on the deck where its wielder had abandoned it. Finn scooped it up, slashing down at Phasma’s head as she aimed her rifle. She saw the blow coming and raised her blaster to intercept it.
The ax cut her rifle in two. Finn grinned as his former commander tossed the useless halves of her weapon away. But before he could press his advantage, Phasma yanked a short baton off her utility belt, which he knew was specially crafted with a unique microscopic structure. A quick whiplike motion extended it into a double-ended spear as long as she was tall.
“You were never anything more than a bug in the system,” she told him, voice dripping with contempt.
“Then I’m going to crash the whole thing,” Finn yelled back, taking a wild swing with the ax. She blocked it and nearly ran him through, forcing him to give ground. Behind her, the scout walker was taking apart the hanger piece by piece, the stormtroopers forced to flee from its murderous fire.
Growling, Phasma whipped her spear at Finn, alternating vicious jabs with slashes aimed at his head, chest, and legs. He parried with the haft of the ax, sparks leaping with each impact, and looked for an opening in her defenses.
But there wasn’t one - she was both faster and stronger than he was. It was all he could do to keep the ax between the two of them, as she rained blows on him from every direction, driving him steadily backward and forcing him to dodge to avoid tripping over the bodies of stormtroopers killed by the initial blast.
She was maneuvering him toward a shaft in the hangar floor, he realized - probably a lift for bringing heavy equipment up from a lower level. Flames were licking out of the opening.
Finn tried to dodge sideways, but Phasma intercepted him. He blocked her attack at the last possible second before she split his skull open. Their weapons remained locked in place.
“You were always disobedient,” Phasma said, pressing him back. “Disrespectful. Your emotions make you weak.”
“No,” Finn replied. “They make me strong.”
With a savage yell she kicked him backward, into the heat and wind boiling up from the Supremacy’s depths.
But a moment later he emerged from the flames, riding atop the turbolift platform he’d landed on and aiming a vicious uppercut with his ax at his attacker. The blow knocked Phasma down and split her mask open. Through the shattered chrome Finn spotted a light blue eye in a pale face.
Finn climbed up from the turbolift and approached Phasma to finish her off as she lay on the floor. But then a group of stormtroopers emerged from the wreckage all around them, weapons pointed right at him. Phasma grabbed her spear off the ground and got to her feet.
Where were Rose and BB-8 when you needed them?
“Put the weapon down, FN-2187,” came a familiar voice - that of nine twenty-six from the lift.
Finn lowered his weapon, but refused to drop it. He knew he needed to stall for time for as long as possible. He faced Phasma.
“You called for order,” he said. “You beat us down. But when your shiny neck was threatened, your devotion to the First Order was abandoned.”
Phasma’s visible eye blinked rapidly. The stormtroopers around them shifted uneasily. Finn hadn’t expected this to actually work beyond stalling.
“The evidence blew up at the base, but you and I know the truth,” Finn continued. “When I put a gun to your head, you shut down Starkiller’s shields! What would your masters do if they found out?”
Fear spread across what Finn could see of Phasma’s face.
“Who would believe a story like that?” she asked, her voice shaking.
Apparently, her own troopers could. They began to exchange glances with each other. Some even lowered their blasters. Phasma’s eye darted from one soldier to the next, detecting the sudden shift in their demeanor.
“I believe him,” said nine twenty-six. “He was always a-”
Finn’s former comrade never got to finish what he was saying. As he spoke, Phasma had launched herself at a blaster on the floor, opening fire on her own men with impossible speed and precision. Seizing his opportunity, Finn charged at her, aiming the swing of his ax directly at the blaster in her hand.
The energy filaments sliced through both the blaster and her hand, cauterizing the open flesh it left behind. Phasma screamed in pain, and Finn went in for a second attack - only this time she blocked it with the spear in her remaining hand. His weapon shivered and then broke. He discarded it to the side, now defenseless.
He managed to stop the spear as she brought it down on him, but then she slammed him backward, landing in the pile of dead stormtroopers around him. He saw now that she had not left a single stormtrooper standing.
“You were always scum,” she spat.
“Rebel scum,” Finn replied coolly.
As Phasma raised her spear with one hand, Finn spotted a heavy assault blaster left behind by a stormtrooper she had just killed. As he pointed it at her chest, Phasma’s surprise momentarily froze her in place - but Finn wasn’t stopping for anything. He fired it, sending her body soaring through the air before landing hard. Instantly the unstable floor collapsed around his former commander. Phasma fell, vanishing into fire.
I know Hal/Poppa in TLJ put audio of Rey whispering Finn’s name to him, causing him to wake up shouting her name. Just a subtle hint, really.
Here is the “I see them” line (unmodified):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_akbBhzvJUZ9lhKeh1MtAdrhlNj-lW74/view?usp=sharing
And here is “You don’t need to say anything” (I removed the huge gap between the words “say” and “anything”):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iLsTCzVzq2dpoTpwIkQlwdTAHCpkW4uQ/view?usp=sharing
You’re right, the delivery is a bit rough on the second one. But I think it would still be interesting to hear what it sounds like.
“You remember more than you say” hints that Rey knew deep down that no one was coming back for her. That she was abandoned.
Man you’re getting pretty good at the Testing style 👍
I do wonder if the line “You remember more than you say” also poses a problem. Kylo goes on to reveal the circumstances of their death, which isn’t something Rey could have known beforehand. This line seems to undermine the sincere confession about her own parents in TLJ. I feel it is important to maintain, even retroactively, that film’s moment of Rey admitting the truth to herself. Not admitting partially but still blocking out a deeper, contradictory truth. Rey can learn her parents were connected to Palpatine in TROS, and that doesn’t have to infringe on her sincerity in TLJ.
Off the top of my head, “You don’t have to say anything” seems like it would fit, but I have a feeling it might not sound right. Still, it would probably be better than the original:
“You remember more than you say. I’ve been in your head.”
To:
“You don’t have to say anything. I’ve been in your head.”
I’m sure there are a couple other options I could investigate as well.
I don’t remember seeing this before. I like the idea though! You’d just need to add more echo and reverb to the new line to make it match the rest of the dialogue.
I agree. This clip was very much a test, as I merely dragged and dropped the audio into place and adjusted how loud it was.
I can share the audio file here tomorrow if somebody wants to give it a whirl with some of that echo/reverb. Kinda busy this week unfortunately otherwise I’d try myself.
I shared it in the TROS redux thread originally a couple months back. I thought I’d share it here as well since Poppa’s line was brought up again. I mentioned when I first shared it that I didn’t mean to disrespect Poppa’s work, which I should have mentioned here as well. He did a pretty good job, all things considered. His work could easily be used for a fan film or a video game. I was just never sure about it being in the film itself.
And yes, it is Adam’s voice from, you guessed it, the LEGO game. Exclusive to that as well, to my understanding. So it shouldn’t appear anywhere else in the trilogy.