Jani-wan

ray_afraid said:

Jani-wan said:

YodaFan67 said:

I only have one suggestion for this, but I think it improves the film greatly:
Start the film with Luke on Dagobah
It just makes so much more sense

Do you have friends?
How long would you let them hangin on a wall? Weeks? Month? If they survive that long at all.

Luke’s waiting to hear from Lando before he does anything. This is set up at the end of ESB.
In the meantime, nothing’s stopping him from going back to Yoda and it makes more sense that he would.
You can click the link in my sig for my ideal opining to ROTJ.

Oh, come on.
How long does it take to find Jabba?
How long does it take to sell him some spice at an unreasonably low price, and offer him more, where this came from?
How long does it take to see that Han is hanging on the wall?
How long does it take to make a “phone call”?
Actually I don’t think Luke has even time to recover properly.

YodaFan67 said:

I only have one suggestion for this, but I think it improves the film greatly:
Start the film with Luke on Dagobah
It just makes so much more sense

Do you have friends?
How long would you let them hangin on a wall? Weeks? Month? If they survive that long at all.

Luke does not need training to face Jabba. He wasn’t ready for Vader, but he was already very good. All he needs is to recover, and come up with a plan.

BTW ain’t all rebel plans seem completely stupid?
In Rogue One, they fly into an Imperial installation with zero planning, and as a result they die. Then a whole fleet follows with zero planning, and most of them die.
In TNH they attack the Death Star with 30 fighters (lol) trying to hit a small hole.
4 ships survive. One of them is not a rebel ship.
In ESB they fight AT-ATs with snowspeeders, that have no chance to even scratch them with their lasers. If not for Luke, Rogue Squadron dies, and every single Imperial soldier goes home without a scratch.
And in ROTJ the whole Alliance is walking into a trap.
Safe to say, they are really not that good at planning.

ChainsawAsh said:

I think they look like shit.

Feel better?

lol

Sorry maybe I wasn’t clear.
Actually I said it would be good to see some traffic.

And not talking about visual distraction here. It’s logical, that we see the shuttle breaking off course, that would seemingly cause Vader’s actions.
This is the post I responded to, and somehow got lost:

NeverarGreat said:
So perhaps Tydirium is in a line of shuttles headed for the Death Star but breaks away for the moon, taking it across the path of the destroyer.

And in this situation when Vader says: “Where is that shuttle going?”, it’s really hard to think that his actions and question is the result of feeling Luke’s presence near by.

ray_afraid said:

jarbear said:

I also don’t think it would get too lost either. Even when you watch the scene, I don’t think right away the audience think “Vader knows Luke is there” when he asks about the shuttle. It seems RIGHT at that moment the thinking was more like “there is a shuttle that came from no where and wants to go to planet, that seems a bit odd.” Hence, why he wants to know what that shuttle is doing. Once he begins focusing on the shuttle, then he sensed Luke’s presence.

Exactly. Then the dialog from Luke tells us that Vader knows he’s there. I mean, they actually say it out loud! It’s not a subtle moment.

It works from your point of view, because you already know, this is what happens, and ignore every other possibility.
Because you must totally ignore that the shuttle is off course, so it can be percieved that Luke is the reason, why Vader acts like that.

At this point in the movie, Luke’s dialog actually only tells us that his presence is a problem, because he senses Vader in the Force and he fears Vader MIGHT feel him too. But clearly he is not that sure about it.
Oh and we all know that so far Vader wasn’t able to recognize his old master from 5 feet, merely FEEL SOMETHING, and in ESB, at the end, Vader knew Luke is there.

So this only works if there is no other distraction that would present a logical reason, or an even more logical and simpler reason.

jarbear said:

I also don’t think it would get too lost either. Even when you watch the scene, I don’t think right away the audience think “Vader knows Luke is there” when he asks about the shuttle. It seems RIGHT at that moment the thinking was more like
"there is a shuttle that came from no where and wants to go to planet, that seems a bit odd."

A shuttle coming from somewhere is exactly what you would expect, when you need workforce and things for the construction.
Nothing odd about that.

ray_afraid said:

Jani-wan said:

ray_afraid said:

Jani-wan said:

Yes they would think. Unless you cut the following dialog:

Piett: Shall I hold them?
Vader: No leave them to me. I will deal with them myself.

Clearly they know.

No, Piett is asking because Vader obviously suspects something. Piett "was about to clear them."
Vader knows because he senses Luke. Luke is “endangering the mission.” If Luke wasn’t there, Han & Co. would have sailed right through with no problem.

If you take the shuttle off course then it won’t be clear that Vader senses Luke, and not the shuttle off course.

They knows after Vader makes it clear.

I see what you’re sayin’, but I don’t think Vader sensing Luke would get lost if this change was made. It might change what initially alerts Vader, but the audience would still realize that he knows Luke is on board through the already existing visuals, editing and the direct dialog that says so.

IDK. Visual only tells me that Vader senses something, just as with Kenobi in TNH.
The dialog only suggests he believes they are rebels.
Luke mentions he might be the problem somehow, so it could be interpreted that Vader senses Luke, still would not feel like more than a vague possibility, and certainly not the first thing I would think of.
On the other hand, if they stay on course, than it can ONLY be Luke’s presence that alerts Vader. And everybody knows that instantly, mostly because the of lack of any other explanation.
Star Wars is simple.
(well the OT is)

ray_afraid said:

Jani-wan said:

Yes they would think. Unless you cut the following dialog:

Piett: Shall I hold them?
Vader: No leave them to me. I will deal with them myself.

Clearly they know.

No, Piett is asking because Vader obviously suspects something. Piett "was about to clear them."
Vader knows because he senses Luke. Luke is “endangering the mission.” If Luke wasn’t there, Han & Co. would have sailed right through with no problem.

If you take the shuttle off course then it won’t be clear that Vader senses Luke, and not the shuttle off course.

They knows after Vader makes it clear.

ray_afraid said:

Jani-wan said:

But this would eliminate a very important piece of information, that Vader can feel Luke’s presence, and that he realizes that the Emperor was right, and his son came to him.
If he thinks this is just a rebel shuttle they might just shoot it down. I see no reason why Vader would let them land on Endor.

The only thing this changes is that Vader questions where the shuttle is going because it’s breaking from the normal route. It doesn’t alter the fact that Vader then senses Luke.
And they don’t think it’s a Rebel shuttle, it’s an Imperial cargo ship and the older clearance code they have “still checks out”. None of that is changed.

I believe it could make the audience feel that Vader is asking about the shuttle because he senses that it is off course, not because of Luke.

Yes they would think. Unless you cut the following dialog:

Piett: Shall I hold them?
Vader: No leave them to me. I will deal with them myself.

Clearly they know.

Editroid said:

2. Even ignoring the PT, many people have complained that DS2 was nearing completion in too short a time, so I thought that a less completed version might mitigate that complaint.

Once you know how to design/build something, it would more than likely take a much shorter time to do it again.

Was about to say the same.
Plus you already have experience, you know the flaws, you know what to correct etc…
I would build the same, but better.

NeverarGreat said:

According to the EU (I know, I know) the gas giant Endor has nine moons. The mining operation could take place on one or more of these moons, and we could see a partially destroyed moon passing in front of Endor prime in one shot. There’s some potential here for striking imagery, ala Avatar:

I think planet Endor looks way too big.
Jupiter view from Europa in a video by a NASA scientist at 2.44:
https://www.space.com/28705-how-to-live-on-europa.html
Europa distance from Jupiter is less 700000 km.
Ganymede is over 1 million.
Callisto 1,8 million km
So there is no need that the planet should fill the whole screen

Clearly if this is a moon, a planet must be near by, but not necessarily too close, so when the rebel fleet arrives, it should not draw the attention of the viewers. I think.
Unless it is Space 1999, with a moon on the lose. Then there is no planet 😉

.Mac. said:

trimboNZ said:

nhoj3 said:

First time trying to post an image, so please forgive me if it takes a few attempts. I found this concept art for DS1 (Episode III) that I found interesting. I thought that visually it was different enough to separate itself from DS1 (as seen in Episode IV) while still eventually being in the same class of super weapon. Being in an early stage it also helps quell the argument that the Empire couldn’t have built it in the allotted time.

I’m not sure if there’s appetite to replace the iconic DS2 silhouette, but thought that it was at least worth considering.

I think it would be a bad idea to mess with the silhouette, but since we’ve never seen the reverse side of it, there’s a lot of room for creativity there, and that image you posted could still serve as inspiration for additional shots. The DS2 could still be mostly hollow for all we know - only the reactor and the path to it are known to be closed in.

Yeah, while I’d say it is a worthwhile suggestion to consider having a less complete version of the Death Star II (or something entirely new besides another DS, for that matter), the one that we know should remain - it is too iconic. I would love to see varying perspectives/sides of the DS, though. But I am very curious, if Ady were to attempt that, how might he go about it? Would this merit the use of CGI? Photoshop? If only one had access to that original model… It still baffles me that the model creators went through the hard work of creating that entire DS and yet all they filmed were shots from, pretty much, just the one angle.

What is wrong with the current uncompleted Death Star?

doubleofive said:

NeverarGreat said:

doubleofive said:

.Mac. said:

I am, however, very much in favor of seeing a string of thousands of various cargo/construction crafts moving between the Death Star and the moon, which can include the Zeta-class; for there it makes sense and I hope we see it.

I was thinking of this too, but does the current dialog on the Star Destroyer allow for Tydirium to just be one of hundreds they’ve seen today? And would they all have to pass right over the Destroyer and “fly casual”?

It would be cool to see dozens of shuttles milling about the Death Star, but since the moon only contains the shield generator and this is operational, there shouldn’t be many craft traveling that way. So perhaps Tydirium is in a line of shuttles headed for the Death Star but breaks away for the moon, taking it across the path of the destroyer.

“Where is that shuttle going?” Could work!

But this would eliminate a very important piece of information, that Vader can feel Luke’s presence, and that he realizes that the Emperor was right, and his son came to him.
If he thinks this is just a rebel shuttle they might just shoot it down. I see no reason why Vader would let them land on Endor.

The other thing is Piett. Always bothered me, that a fleet admiral personally clears some cargo ship. But it could be explained, that he is totally bored, and at least something is happening.
Thousands of ship flying in and out, would make him run away from that station as fast as he can. Actually he would never even go there.
So seeing him there would bother me more.
Still, adding some traffic and workforce in space would improve the scene. Right now it looks like nothing is happening.
Adding traffic could even indicate that Vader has indeed “motivated” Jerrjerrod’s men, if it remains unchanged that there is absolutely no traffic when he arrives to the DS.
But adding too much traffic could be distracting viewers.
I know some people want to see and recognize every single ship and person in EU, but it should not come at the expense of what is really happening, and thousand of ship would clearly undermine the concept of secrecy.
"… that the
Galactic Empire secretly
begun construction on a new
armored space station…"
… with thousands of cargo ships?

trimboNZ said:

Jani-wan said:

doubleofive said:

I’ve assumed Ackbar is giving the mark to the capital ships, with Lando giving the mark to the fighters.

Admiral Ackbar says “prepare to jump to hyperspace on my mark”, and Lando answers “all right, stand by”. And then he jumps into hyperspace!

He says, “All craft, prepare to jump into hyperspace on my mark”.

There is a trilling beeping noise right before Lando hits the lever. I always assumed that was the “mark” broadcast to all ships.

I only hear the engine revvin up

DigMod said:

Hmm I’m reading all this and all I can hear is Porkins saying, “stay on (topic), stay on (topic)” :p

Porkins?
Strange. 😛

I’d add this to the Vader/Luke artificial limb discussion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxwn1w7MJvk
The brain adopts the limb as it is a part of the body, and reacts accordingly.

ray_afraid said:

The PT should have been made to match the OT and the OT shouldn’t be altered to match that crap. That crap should be altered to match the OT.

Not only the PT but the Disney too.
Except the obvious improvements. Like the Death Star plans.

MalàStrana said:

Just a quick question: since ROTJ:R is going to go further into changing the movie we know (i.e. to really fan-edit it - new sequence being shot, dialogues removed, tone altered, etc. - instead of “only” correcting continuity mistakes and enhancing/improving/remaking existing material) is the title “Return of the Jedi” going to stay as it is or is Ady thinking about using the more dark (hence more suitable) “Revenge of the Jedi” alternate title ('cause Anakin gets his revenge while returning as a Jedi) ? Both titles are good but “Revenge” is a little bit better in my opinion.

For several decades I thought just as well as you do, that Return of the Jedi means simply that a Jedi returns. I was thinkin it is Luke.
But when I watched the The New Hope, for a zillioth time, a line by Obi-wan caught my attention:
"The Jedi are all but extinct"
and then I connected that with:
"Return of the Jedi"
S now I see it differently. It’s not one Jedi, Luke or Anakin. It’s the Jedi that have returned from presumed extintion.
I could be wrong of course, but I think it makes more sense, because neither Luke nor Anakin/Vader actually "return"s. On the other hand, the Jedi do.

doubleofive said:

Jani-wan said:

doubleofive said:

But the shield doesn’t protect the whole planet.

The reason they have to lower the shield for Tydirium is for that section on the ground. The entire Endor part of the movie takes place in this how-many-ever square mile area…

Actually I always thought the shield is emanated from that enormous dish, several miles from the landing platform.
Star Wars complete locations book says the same.
The Dish it is visibly aimed at the Death Star.
The shield emanating from the dish does not cover any part of the ground.
So I see no reason to deactivate it, or fly even close to that. The landing platform is several miles from the dish.
On that holoprojection, the shield should look needle thin near the surface.
Also the book says, “the above ground shield projector plus the undergound power generator and the shield projector complex is about 43 miles in diameter”. And according to that map the distance between the Dish and the landing platform is ca. 4 miles.

edit:
here is the shield projector (page 140)
https://issuu.com/edusantosjr/docs/star_wars_-_the_new_essential_guide_bac1bad41ab16c

If they don’t have to lower the shield for Tydirium to land, why do they have to lower the shield for Tydirium to land? I mean, if Ady cuts that whole bit and has Han & Co just sneak onto Endor without a code clearance, then that makes sense. But currently they definitely need the shield to be down to land near the generator.

Yeah, I know, and I think they must have another planetary shield in place somewhere, that protects part of Endor, because both Han and Vader mentions it.
Like the one that the rebels had on Hoth.
Of course it presents the problem of how the Death Star shield clears the planetary shield, because I don’t think it can. That would be a mess.
So Im guessing there must be a small physical gate on the planetary shield, (like on Scarif but smaller), where the Death Star shield can clear the planetary shield without interference.

I know, complicated, but it would work if this would be seen in the briefing on the projector.
I guess.

doubleofive said:

But the shield doesn’t protect the whole planet.

The reason they have to lower the shield for Tydirium is for that section on the ground. The entire Endor part of the movie takes place in this how-many-ever square mile area…

Actually I always thought the shield is emanated from that enormous dish, several miles from the landing platform.
Star Wars complete locations book says the same.
The Dish is visibly aimed at the Death Star.
The shield emanating from the dish does not cover any part of the ground.
So I see no reason to deactivate it, or fly even close to that. The landing platform is several miles from the dish.
On that holoprojection, the shield should look needle thin near the surface.
Also the book says, “the above ground shield projector plus the undergound power generator and the shield projector complex is about 43 miles in diameter”. And according to that map the distance between the Dish and the landing platform is ca. 4 miles.

edit:
here is the shield projector (page 140)
https://issuu.com/edusantosjr/docs/star_wars_-_the_new_essential_guide_bac1bad41ab16c

MalàStrana said:

During the sail barge assault there also is a very weird continuity issue when Han falls from the (around 0:32:02 of Harmy’s V2.5):

shot1: https://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/325972shot1.png

shot2: https://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/737151shot2.png

If Han is possible to fix, I would ask for the fix of Luke’s onehanded/twohanded grab of the plank. That always bothered me very much. It is just impossible, even for a Jedi. 😃

ray_afraid said:

Jani-wan said:

Ripplin said:

doubleofive said:

When the droids enter the room, that whole time you can hear each of Greedo’s lines, in order.

Yep, one of the laziest things they ever did. And then they did the same sort of thing in Rogue One! More than once! :p Even if it was tongue-in-cheekily done as an homage to the laziness of ROTJ, I still think it’s stupid.

OFF
I don’t know what you refer to. Evazan’s line is spot on,

Yes, it’s spot on the exact same thing he says in Star Wars (just a few days latter!) and that’s lame as all hell!

the droid I don’t remember.

I only watched it once (but liked it) and the repeated droid voice stuck out horribly to me.

it would have felt much more Star Wars-y if they’d show some cockpit shots with the usual conversation:
– Lock S-foils in attack position. Accelerate to attack speed.
– Copy Gold leader

MORE repeated lines is NOT what R1 needs.
But speaking of “Copy… Gold… Leader”, I really hope that line gets a new dub for ROTJ:R. That delivery is one of the worst in the trilogy.
I’ve no doubt at all that Ady will fix all the repeated dialog and sounds in the background of ROTJ:R.

The military uses repeated dialogs, all the time.
So that is a valid expectation I would think, and not something that is disturbing.
And I think Evazan’s line is a nice touch. And that is a line he likes to use. I don’t see a problem here. Plus this makes him instantly recognizable, so this makes a slight connection with TNH.
Of course there can be difference in opinions on this.

doubleofive said:

Jani-wan said:

MalàStrana said:

Easy to fix: when Lando goes into hyper-space, just add a “oups!” (tracked from little Ani).

or as I recommended on Page 2:
“Maybe it would be wise to switch the two jump segments, that the Calamari Cruser with the Admiral jumps first.
That would clearly work as a ‘MARK’ by the Admiral I guess.”

The capital ships going first makes sense if they’re slower, so they arrive at the same time…

I don’t think they travel slower in hyperspace, especially if this is a coordinated attack.
And I think they should arrive ahead of the fighters to “create a defensive perimeter”. Usually fighters protect the capital ships, but in this case the fighters are needed more to survive, so when the fighters arrive, the cruisers should be in position to protect them, no matter where the Imperial attack comes from.
Ideally.
They can not be protected if it is a trap of course.

MalàStrana said:

Easy to fix: when Lando goes into hyper-space, just add a “oups!” (tracked from little Ani).

or as I recommended on Page 2:
“Maybe it would be wise to switch the two jump segments, that the Calamari Cruser with the Admiral jumps first.
That would clearly work as a ‘MARK’ by the Admiral I guess.”

Ripplin said:

doubleofive said:

When the droids enter the room, that whole time you can hear each of Greedo’s lines, in order.

Yep, one of the laziest things they ever did. And then they did the same sort of thing in Rogue One! More than once! :p Even if it was tongue-in-cheekily done as an homage to the laziness of ROTJ, I still think it’s stupid.

OFF
I don’t know what you refer to. Evazan’s line is spot on, the droid I don’t remember.
Actually in RO I missed some more. For example the rebel fighter attack on the high mountain planet, it would have felt much more Star Wars-y if they’d show some cockpit shots with the usual conversation:
– Lock S-foils in attack position. Accelerate to attack speed.
– Copy Gold leader