JakeRyan17

joshuabri said:

To go back to earlier, I think making Jannah be Finn’s sister (and not Lando’s daughter) would be the the type of relationship reveal that would benefit this movie, if it were doable, which I highly doubt.

Anyway, has anyone successfully implemented the Rey killed her parents angle? The FX work is beyond my ability, but if someone has done it, I’d be interested in borrowing it for my edit.

Also, is the trailer footage officially available anywhere? They’re not on the Blu-Ray and Disney+ doesn’t let you download extras. Granted there’s only a couple seconds of footage not in the finished film.

The hardest thing with this change to Jannah’s story is the end celebration. Jannah and Lando are only in their scene, not in any of the rest of the celebration. I dislike the scene (tried to add Maz to make it clearer that Lando is either her father or adopting her) but without it, two major heroes disappear without explanation.

Anakin Starkiller said:

Look, I’m not opposed to Stormpilot, but at the end of the day I never picked up on any signs, and I say this as a Reylo fan. Maybe I’m just too straight to ever pick up on gay hints. Harley and Ivy seemed outta nowhere to me in Harley Quinn so…

Haha! Okay, rewatch some of their scenes together… the way Poe bites his lip while examining the fit of his jacket on Finn is where it all started. A lot of their interactions are very comfortable with each other.

Oscar Isaac said “Personally, I kind of hoped and wished that maybe that would’ve been taken further in the other films, but I don’t have control. It seemed like a natural progression, but sadly enough it’s a time when people are too afraid, I think, of… I don’t know what. But if they would’ve been boyfriends, that would have been fun.”

Boyega said “They’ve always had a quite loving and open relationship in which it wouldn’t be too weird if it went beyond it.”

As for Harley and Ivy… that one has been in the cards and hinted at since Batman: The Animated Series, where Ivy helps console Harley to not need abusive men in her life. It wasn’t overt until much later in the comics, but it definitely has a lot of foundation.

Yes, we agree on that. I don’t think he was trying to piss people off, I just think he has no idea what it is to not see yourself on screen, what horrors LGBTQ+ people have gone through, and how much they want to see people like themselves in a futuristic fantasy.

I’m someone that wasn’t on board with StormPilot initially, because Finn’s motivation was so directly tied to his romantic interest in Rey. But they could have just kept Poe single and built on it in comics or novels where it’s safer. Instead they chose to ensure that wasn’t the case. That, by itself, was also insulting. Isaac said he played the character gay, and it would have been incredible to have a gay hero and protagonist.

I’m not trying to get Hal to change his edit, but I’ll defend the choice I’ve made and that the actor made.

StarkillerAG said:

I guess I just don’t understand where you’re getting this from. Like you said, Zorri is just intended to be another person who delivers important exposition, who just happens to have a pre-existing relationship with one of the characters. She wasn’t intended in any way to please China, especially given the fact that Star Wars doesn’t make any money in China anyways. The lesbian kiss was a dumb PR move, but not one that was intended to spite fans. Given how much JJ was playing safe with this movie, I doubt he would intentionally give a middle finger to any segment of the fanbase. If you don’t like Zorri’s role, that’s your opinion, but I don’t see how it was done to piss off fans.

Imagine it in the context of any other marginalised or underrepresented group. “We want to show that Black people live in the Star Wars universe.” Being said prior to the films, but there’s no Mace, Lando, Finn, or Jannah. There’s one Black man in the final shot of the movie. Imagine another character, a main character, wearing a helmet and being voiced by a Black actor being revealed to be a white man all along (kinda like Vader).

These things are insulting, even if they’re meant to be pandering and fan-pleasing. Zorri’s role in the film doesn’t change anything, she was added so that the very public talk about Poe being gay could be denied before the film was denied in China. Disney has tried to make Star Wars take off there, even though it was never going to work.

Zorri doesn’t really serve any other purpose. She’s another “find the thing to find the thing” in the chain. She helps them find Babu Frik, who Poe theoretically already knows how to find (being that he got to the right town on the right planet and Babu’s workshop ain’t new). She also has the contrived medallion that the heroes have never needed to sneak aboard a ship before.

She’s used to reveal backstory for Poe, but it’s unnecessary. It doesn’t reveal secrets that make us or the other characters question anything we know about who he is now, or question if the characters can trust him. It’s thrown in as a joke that kinda contradicts the rest of the history we know of him.

She’s there for him to have a female love interest. The rest is added on so they can skip developing it. It’s also hamfisted to show his interest in her, and she doesn’t even return the interest.

It’s designed to make it clear in no uncertain terms that the characters the fans and cast have desired to be gay isn’t, and it was done to make sure the film could open well in China (Where Star Wars doesn’t make money anyway). They could have just not wedged an extra romance into an overstuffed movie, not confirming any romantic interest from the character. Instead they teased that there would be representation, knowing that people would interpret that as Poe (even without a romance with Finn), and then made it a background shot.

Abrams said he wanted LGBTQ+ people to see themselves in the movie, seeing myself as an unnamed backdrop that’s unable to share any time with my romantic interest besides a pandering kiss in the background of a wide shot is pretty insulting. He’s the one that made a decision out of spite, I simplified story threads that went nowhere (Rey & Finn Romance), cut a silly and tacked on relationship (Poe & Zorri), and further developed a relationship that was built in all three films (Finn & Poe).

Hal 9000 said:

What, like he was gonna say, “OMG we’re gonna die in sand, omg real quick, Rey, I’M GAY! hhurvvvldlejerjj” dies ?

Seems disjointed and extremely on the nose. I wouldn’t have cared if they took Finn and Poe in that direction but it’s hard to imagine a fan edit pulling it off without feeling fan-fic-y.

It’s simpler than you’d think. Most of their scenes together lean that way anyway, add their deleted scene in TLJ, cut down Zorri and Finn’s romance with Rey, and then change that ending scene.

I did cut the need to tell something, just because it’s never established what he needed to say. I kept the bickering before Hux rescues them, but I have Poe ask “Good luck, huh?” Before Finn says “You still on about that?”. A lot of the cuts are minor and simple, and because it’s not too on the nose prior to this end scene it works for the most part. I’m still tweaking the end scene to make it work, but it’s better to me than the alternatives that are underdeveloped or go headfirst into empty pools.

I cut the needing to “tell something” moment, but I changed various other moments with them, and here’s how I ended it:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DUXM3TIlAJKR8pH2sMwvhbrzjWZt6XwL/view?usp=sharing

Well, in the other two edits, I toned down the Finn/Rey romance, since that goes nowhere. I didn’t cut the kiss with Rose, because she was initiating it, but I did cut down Rey heartbrokenly watching Finn tuck Rose in on the Falcon.

But I approached all three films trying to better set it up. I would love if someone adapted that last shot to a kiss, but it’s beyond my ability.

StarkillerAG said:

Not sure if I’d like that either. I’ve never really liked shipping in general. Two fictional characters hooking up just seems like a completely inconsequential thing to get all worked up about. There are far more important issues with this movie that should be focused on instead.

I get that. I was against it until Abrams made LGBTQ+ representation part of the marketing campaign, only for it to be two unnamed characters in the background of a wide shot.

They had incredible chemistry, and Oscar Isaac not only wanted the romance but played scenes up with that intention. Zorri was only put in the film to solidify that both characters were straight… which is kinda insulting. Of all the things to bog the film down with, shouting “no homo” with a pointless cameo for one of the director’s friends while selling the opposite idea to the public was just messed up. I’ve adjusted my cuts to help fix this.

How about a kiss between Finn and Poe when they embrace?

Ed Slushie said:

Has anyone tried replacing the Luke & Leia theme at the end with Lando’s theme? It would make more sense and I don’t think it appears anywhere else in the movie.

Which track is Lando’s theme?

I like that for the tone of this, a lot. That really puts her more in a femme fatale role.

I like the reveal of Maul in the original film because it better fits with the overall story and chronology of Star Wars. Since this feels like a separate artistic expression, that doesn’t matter.

Knight of Kalee said:

JakeRyan17 said:

Does anyone have the skill/time/desire to change the ship they take to the Star Destroyer? We could also repurpose and reuse a shot of everyone rounding a corner to be looking at a ship (from the scene where they meet Zorri) to help set up this idea.

I have good sound files and could help sell the idea, I’m just not good enough at VFX to make it happen. I could cut together scenes for it to help explain better if that would help.

Sounds intriguing. Is it for getting rid of the too-convenient First Order passport thing?

If some VFX wizard could actually manage to accomplish this, I wouldn’t have a problem with it, though it would be nice to have your mockup version of the idea with a placeholder shot playing the part of the new VFX shot

Yeah, that would be the goal. The less contrivances in the film, the better. I’ll do a mock up of the scene with the current footage to see if a VFX wizard wants to put in time/energy.

Does anyone have the skill/time/desire to change the ship they take to the Star Destroyer? We could also repurpose and reuse a shot of everyone rounding a corner to be looking at a ship (from the scene where they meet Zorri) to help set up this idea.

I have good sound files and could help sell the idea, I’m just not good enough at VFX to make it happen. I could cut together scenes for it to help explain better if that would help.

idir_hh said:

Thanks for the link Jake, I stand corrected!

Of course! I like what this film was trying to be, and I wish that they’d have hired a better director than Howard that could have worked with Lord & Miller (who could have stayed on as producers) and the Kasdans to make a more compelling film that didn’t lampoon what people love about Star Wars while still adding fun into the mix.

My biggest hope is that we get a Q’ira & Maul series on Disney+

All that said, I really love the way this Bebop edit is coming along. I wish I had audio as isolated for Solo as I do for some of the other films to help take it the extra mile.

idir_hh said:

Hmm that could be the case but I’m not entirely convinced, if it’s not too much trouble could you sight any sources for the Chewie brwl being part of Lord and Miller’s cut? I remember hearing an interview with Jonathan Kasdan where he talks about writing that scene.

https://www.indiewire.com/2018/09/solo-scenes-phil-lord-chris-miller-wrote-included-theatrical-cut-1202004300/

The Kasdans were writers on the film, and were not allowed to direct. Howard was the other director who shot 80% of the film, the other 20% is from Lord & Miller’s original version of the film.

Also, Lord & Miller are more prolific producers than they are writers. Some of fans’ favourites of their work they did not direct (such as Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse). It’s important to separate what they directed from what they didn’t, especially when talking about what their direction would have looked like.

idir_hh said:

JakeRyan17 said:

idir_hh said:

I haven’t heard any actors involved say anything of that nature, I guess we’ll have to wait few years for a reveal all memoire or book to really know what happened behind the curtains.

Even Lord & Miller’s remaining scenes kinda show the much sillier tone (Han speaking Shyriiwook, etc.)

Do we really know that though?

Yes. We know which scenes were filmed when. That particular scene has been much discussed as the primary example of what’s left from Lord & Miller and the tone they wanted for the film.

I followed these stories avidly for the years of production and when after release, my current job has also given me some insights to what happened. It’s fairly well-documented, with having to read between polite remarks that everyone made. It was a fairly friendly parting of ways, but rather stressful prior to that.

idir_hh said:

I haven’t heard any actors involved say anything of that nature, I guess we’ll have to wait few years for a reveal all memoire or book to really know what happened behind the curtains.

They were polite about it, but read all of their interviews and it’s all there. Even Lord & Miller’s remaining scenes kinda show the much sillier tone (Han speaking Shyriiwook, etc.); it shows a film that no one would’ve taken seriously.

They wanted to make a spoof while Lucasfilm, the writers, the producers, and the cast wanted to make a Star Wars movie.

idir_hh said:

Tbh I don’t really know what to believe. The script was pretty bland so I can totally see why they wanted to spice it up a little, and hey, those two have proven many times how capable they are as film-makers. One thing I know for sure is that it would have been a far more interesting film to watch.

I understand that perspective, but the reason I disagree is because no one else was on board with what they were doing. At the very minimum, you need your cast to trust you and to be on the same page of what you’re doing. That was never the case, which would have made the eventual film weak for it.

And lots of fun films have bland scripts, take The Force Awakens with its bland script that barely isn’t A New Hope. The direction is what gave it any life. After being burned by “edgy” filmmakers, they went with the safest possible choice they legally could (Lawrence Kasdan, already working on the film as writer and producer, could not direct according to union rules that the film legally agreed to prior to going into production).

Movies Remastered said:

idir_hh said:

Wasn’t that already done in TLJ?

Not that I remember, He was in a generals uniform not a stormtrooper in TLJ? I just think that would have suited that story better rather than just walking straight in with barely an issue. Captain’s medallion was bad enough.

Imagine if they instead stole a First Order transport to sneak aboard the Star Destroyer… less contrivance and less mcguffins.

idir_hh said:

I think this is the kind of approach that Lord & Miller were originally going for. I even heard somewhere that they wanted the scenes on Correlia to be at the end of the 3rd act. Pitty, seams like the higher ups thought it was too much of a risk. I guess that’s why the finished cut ended up feeling so… generic.

By most accounts from others on set, they were wanting to go more in the direction of Spaceballs than Bebop. They also didn’t give direction to the actors and wouldn’t follow the script, forcing them to do improv rather than the rehearsed and written scenes. The film is generic because 80% of it was directed by Ron Howard, who is generally a fairly generic filmmaker.

Anakin Starkiller said:

idir_hh said:

In the Art of Book it says that in previous versions of TROS, Finn encountered a sibling on a wreckage world.
https://i.redd.it/j967ydbvib451.png

In the early leaks Janna was meant to be Finns sister and it would have been later revealed that Lando was their father (evidently from the visual dictionary and novelisation)
MSW: https://amp.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/d4z5ju/msw_star_wars_the_rise_of_skywalker_leaks_on_finn/

Jedipaxis:
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/as5v1h/a_few_details_about_episode_ix_from_a_reliable/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_body

Didn’t Boyega also talk about his backstory getting fleshed out in one of the interviews?

Janna being Finn’s sister explain so much and implementing it would make Finn’s role in the film feel less non-existent. It also ties the whole planet-hopping goose chase into a cohesive narrative rather than half a movie’s worth of filler. Each planet is about one of the main trio reconnecting with their past. Pasaana has Rey confronting her parentage, Kijimi has Poe confronting his past as spice runner, and Kef Bir has Finn confronting his forcefully broken family. It all makes sense now. Suddenly it feels like Abrams and Terrio weren’t completely pulling stuff out the blue and filming a first draft. The sibling dynamic removes the feeling of Jannah being Rose’s replacement too! We have to implement this!

Does John Boyega ever say “sister” in the films, or even in a similar voice in another film (or interview)? I have cleaned the audio in his scene with Jannah that we could frankenbite a line of dialogue to insert this idea.

Anakin Starkiller said:

TK-422 said:

Speaking about Finn and Jannah, I was wondering about playing a subtle version of Luke’s theme (the main theme) under the scene where she recounts how her squad refused to kill civilians. Then, in the opening crawl, Luke’s sacrifice would be directly referenced, and that it sent a “shockwave across the galaxy” or something like that. This would imply that Luke’s final act is not only force projecting to Crait, but also having people all across the galaxy feel the force (even if it’s just for a minute). I know that’s kind of ridiculous, but it adds even further weight to Luke saying “I will not be the last Jedi”, and actually makes his sacrifice relevant, which is my biggest problem with TROS. It’s silly, but this IS the radical redux thread, so I thought I should mention it.

It’s not Luke’s theme anymore, so this is meaningless.

Could use the Force Theme

TK-422 said:

Speaking about Finn and Jannah, I was wondering about playing a subtle version of Luke’s theme (the main theme) under the scene where she recounts how her squad refused to kill civilians. Then, in the opening crawl, Luke’s sacrifice would be directly referenced, and that it sent a “shockwave across the galaxy” or something like that. This would imply that Luke’s final act is not only force projecting to Crait, but also having people all across the galaxy feel the force (even if it’s just for a minute). I know that’s kind of ridiculous, but it adds even further weight to Luke saying “I will not be the last Jedi”, and actually makes his sacrifice relevant, which is my biggest problem with TROS. It’s silly, but this IS the radical redux thread, so I thought I should mention it.

I’d like that… helps explain Finn seemingly just now having an awakening himself.

Ed Slushie said:

omnimuffin said:

Ed Slushie said:
It might be brief, but this would hopefully make it feel like Finn’s arc had real significance beyond reacting to Poe and Rey.

…Doesn’t Finn’s recruitment of and connection to Company 77 straight up save the galaxy? Without them, they wouldn’t have been able to disable the Steadfast, and the fleet would have been able to make it clear of the planet’s atmosphere.

That’s a good point, and I certainly wouldn’t remove that part. But would you rather have a scene of Finn reacting to Rey’s death and resurrection, or a scene of him making a compassionate decision based on his past experiences?

Especially when Rey arrives to the celebration so much later, and the emotion of that embrace might be more powerful if Finn didn’t know she survived.