JakeRyan17

omnimuffin said:

JakeRyan17 said:

omnimuffin said:

JakeRyan17 said:

omnimuffin said:

I mostly meant that we know who all of the actors for the original Knights were and they were all male, and also that none of them had the darksaber.

We also know that the original “actors” weren’t actors so much as stand-ins for later.

Also, no one knew that Moffat’s Gideon had the Darksaber until he pulled it out. It’s quite portable. Also, who knows, maybe she didn’t acquire it until sometime in the years between that flashback and a year after TFA/TLJ takes place.

I just feel portraying it as an impossible plot hole is a bit much.

That’s a valid point.

That said, the scripts do not make her feel like a very good villain, haha.

That’s fair, that script was far from perfect… but it was a lot better than what Abrams turned in. Like pole-vaulting over a crack in the pavement.

I really, really don’t agree. It’s not better, it’s just different bad.

There are a lot of cool elements, but there are elements so bad that they drag the rest of it deeply below the final product for me.

I don’t know. Any attempt at originality is better than more member-berries.

omnimuffin said:

JakeRyan17 said:

omnimuffin said:

I mostly meant that we know who all of the actors for the original Knights were and they were all male, and also that none of them had the darksaber.

We also know that the original “actors” weren’t actors so much as stand-ins for later.

Also, no one knew that Moffat’s Gideon had the Darksaber until he pulled it out. It’s quite portable. Also, who knows, maybe she didn’t acquire it until sometime in the years between that flashback and a year after TFA/TLJ takes place.

I just feel portraying it as an impossible plot hole is a bit much.

That’s a valid point.

That said, the scripts do not make her feel like a very good villain, haha.

That’s fair, that script was far from perfect… but it was a lot better than what Abrams turned in. Like pole-vaulting over a crack in the pavement.

omnimuffin said:

I mostly meant that we know who all of the actors for the original Knights were and they were all male, and also that none of them had the darksaber.

We also know that the original “actors” weren’t actors so much as stand-ins for later.

Also, no one knew that Moffat’s Gideon had the Darksaber until he pulled it out. It’s quite portable. Also, who knows, maybe she didn’t acquire it until sometime in the years between that flashback and a year after TFA/TLJ takes place.

I just feel portraying it as an impossible plot hole is a bit much.

DominicCobb said:

Hal 9000 said:

None of them were pink OR had a bow.

No boob armor either.

None of them were showing a midriff or wearing stilettos either.

DominicCobb said:

omnimuffin said:

JakeRyan17 said:

thebluefrog said:

Imagine if Kylo had straight up killed Palpatine at the start and been the primary antagonist. TLJ turned all the villains into jokes, with Hux being ragdolled around, Snoke dying like Jar Jar, and Kylo throwing a tantrum at Luke. Phasma not so much, but she was wasted too, so…

Getting Kylo back on track to be a genuine threat would’ve helped raise the emotional stakes and made his evolution over the trilogy more interesting.

Unfortunately…I don’t think this is editable with current material. Probably 10 years away to be able to edit that with deepfakes and video games.

That was the intention with The Last Jedi killing Snoke, to set Kylo up as Episode IX’s main antagonist. That’s what Colin Trevorrow’s Duel of Fates did as well. I think that was the prevailing idea forward until Abrams’ came back.

Of course, Treverrow’s script didn’t handle it particuarily well either, contriving an excuse for Kylo to get an even more Vader-ey mask and having him lose the final fight because Rey becomes a bad fanfiction grey Jedi using both the light and dark, and with later revisions pulling the ‘last minute turn to the light’ and making one of the Knights of Ren (coincedentally, one that was very much not visible during the flashback in TFA, because a) she’s a woman and b) she has the darksaber) be the eleventh hour final boss.

Because it’s so obvious in the TFA flashbacks that none of them are women?

I think (hope) he just means that none of them had the Darksaber…

Brewzter said:

Personally I’ve been following Hal’s edit but I support adding in StormPilot as much as possible 😃 I like the new final Ajan Kloss scene a lot more. Did you have to add in Rey’s theme instead to help with adjusting the scnes?

I’m less familiar with the music side of things, so most of my music editing was trying to smooth over and keep transitions in tact. I did adjust the music during the fight on Exegol, because the main Star Wars theme when the fleet shows up was just too much for me.

Hal 9000 said:

I think the training course Rey runs is supposed to be the same setting in the Luke and Leia flashback.

You’re right, I didn’t know that until looking it up after your comment. I guess the planet with Luke’s Temple was a “secret only known by the order” and has yet to be revealed in the comics or ancillary materials. Definitely grasslands, based on the comics.

thebluefrog said:

Imagine if Kylo had straight up killed Palpatine at the start and been the primary antagonist. TLJ turned all the villains into jokes, with Hux being ragdolled around, Snoke dying like Jar Jar, and Kylo throwing a tantrum at Luke. Phasma not so much, but she was wasted too, so…

Getting Kylo back on track to be a genuine threat would’ve helped raise the emotional stakes and made his evolution over the trilogy more interesting.

Unfortunately…I don’t think this is editable with current material. Probably 10 years away to be able to edit that with deepfakes and video games.

That was the intention with The Last Jedi killing Snoke, to set Kylo up as Episode IX’s main antagonist. That’s what Colin Trevorrow’s Duel of Fates did as well. I think that was the prevailing idea forward until Abrams’ came back.

I think I’ve got a version 1 if anyone is interested in watching.

omnimuffin said:

Honestly, almost entirely based on the fact that it’s a grassland and that it has a history with Jedi Temples in the EU(and also the saga), part of me had always assumed Luke’s temple was built on Dantooine, probably near where Arca Jeth’s Enclave was in Legends continuity.

Or Lothal? Abrams has avoided the old EU/Legends more than anyone else since the Disney buyout.

Ed Slushie said:

I know we’ve pretty much retired the Ajan Kloss = Naboo idea, but the more I think about it, Ajan Kloss we wouldn’t have to change the canon to make Ajan Kloss into a planet we’ve seen before: On Wookieepedia, there’s no official information as to where Luke’s Jedi Temple (from the flashbacks in TLJ) was located, and given that it was where Luke trained Leia it would make sense for Ajan Kloss to be that same planet.
Can anyone think of a way to make that clearer in the movie?

I think I assumed that Luke trained Leia on Endor, as the flashbacks resemble that forest. Luke’s Jedi Temple from the flashbacks in The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi don’t resemble this forest area to me at all.

Then I’d cut it completely.

And I would argue that the shot of Vader in A New Hope is an “Aha, I survived” shot, but if that’s not the vibe you like, commit to it and cut the shot.

smudger9 said:

JakeRyan17 said:

smudger9 said:

Broom Kid said:

Cut Moff Gideon survival reveal scene and added as post credits scene.

doesn’t this sort of blow the whole “classic Star Wars” vibe you’re going for all by itself?

It seems sort of jarring to adhere so strongly to main saga convention and then make a Marvel gimmick the last thing anyone sees.

Not at all. It’s removal means that the end scene is Much more like a classical Star was movie with a long, music driven closing scene. I was originally intending to cut it completely. Putting it at the end is just a way of keeping it in the movie In some form. When I view it I’ll be ignoring it.

I would cut it completely or move it earlier. The post-credit scene is just too un-Star Wars. You could put it immediately after he crashes, or just not have it. To me, it’s nice to know the villain survived, which is pretty classic Star Wars. Just move it before the scene with the heroes and music swelling. Or let him pop up, miraculously surviving, in the next movie for season two without that scene.

I’d argue that it’s more “Star Wars” to not know whether the villain has survived or not… Darth Maul, Boba Fett, The Emperor

Moving it earlier just doesn’t work for the ending when you view it as a whole movie… it feels like the ending of a TV series.

All three of those examples are retcons. If you look at Darth Vader in A New Hope, Boba Fett and Vader in Empire Strikes Back, Sidious/Palpatine in Phantom Menace, Dooku and Palpatine in Attack of the Clones, Vader and Palpatine in Revenge of the Sith…

There was almost always a final shot of the villain ensuring we knew there was an ongoing threat just before the heroes reunited and had the hopeful look into the distance shot with swelling music before the circle-wipe transition to the credits.

smudger9 said:

Broom Kid said:

Cut Moff Gideon survival reveal scene and added as post credits scene.

doesn’t this sort of blow the whole “classic Star Wars” vibe you’re going for all by itself?

It seems sort of jarring to adhere so strongly to main saga convention and then make a Marvel gimmick the last thing anyone sees.

Not at all. It’s removal means that the end scene is Much more like a classical Star was movie with a long, music driven closing scene. I was originally intending to cut it completely. Putting it at the end is just a way of keeping it in the movie In some form. When I view it I’ll be ignoring it.

I would cut it completely or move it earlier. The post-credit scene is just too un-Star Wars. You could put it immediately after he crashes, or just not have it. To me, it’s nice to know the villain survived, which is pretty classic Star Wars. Just move it before the scene with the heroes and music swelling. Or let him pop up, miraculously surviving, in the next movie for season two without that scene.

Hal 9000 said:

If there were ten seconds more footage we could get most of the message in, ideally.

I mean, they could talk over some of the message. Just depends which bits have significance to you.

Hal 9000 said:

Well, here’s the scene with a temp audio clip for Palpatine. Could select a different portion to use, but having the static conclusion to prompt the crowd reaction seems to work.

JEDIT: https://vimeo.com/442206729

I really like that too. Helps sell that they might’ve heard more off-screen but there’s still enough to evoke the reaction we see.

Chase Adams said:

I would really like it if we could somehow have Palpy yell something like, “Skywalker is dead!” Luke’s death made basically no impact on this film so anything to remind us of him would be very much welcome in my opinion.

I mean, he died a year ago after abandoning the galaxy years prior to that… I can’t imagine Palpatine is still bothered about a long-solved problem.

Broom Kid said:

Cut Moff Gideon survival reveal scene and added as post credits scene.

doesn’t this sort of blow the whole “classic Star Wars” vibe you’re going for all by itself?

It seems sort of jarring to adhere so strongly to main saga convention and then make a Marvel gimmick the last thing anyone sees.

I feel like you could put it after Mando & crew fly off, but before they say their goodbyes to each other. Give it a similar placement/feel to Vader spinning off in A New Hope or Dooku delivering the Death Star Plans in Attack of the Clones.

jarbear said:

JakeRyan17 said:

jarbear said:

Ah yeah, that’s the order. My bad about the intel timing and all. Never mind.

Still personally again the corny fortnite lines.

I get that the Fortnite message is corny, and I agree… but it’s still a better way to give this information. So much of the film is corny that if you cut all that’s corny out, you might have slightly more than a trailer.

This new villain, who was presumed dead for over 30 years within continuity and in the real world has very little setup to being a threat still. That’s why I’m one that thinks this message should be in The Last Jedi after Snoke does and just before Luke arrives on Crait and Kylo’s travelling to Exegol (with the Mustafar sequence fully cut) should replace Rey travelling to Ahch-To in The Force Awakens.

For those that don’t like seeding Palpatine into the other films, I think having this broadcast, or at least part of it, in this Resistance meeting helps act as proof that Palpatine has returned, it’s something they can tangibly witness (unlike Poe’s “Somehow, Palpatine returned” line).

I get that thinking. At least for me, using Poppa or Hal’s Hal’s Last Jedi already hints at Palps. As well as a small taser in Hal’s TFA. (The TLJ in both versions is a heavy imply right at the end.)

So using either of those two edits for TLJ already “warms us up” to Palpatine’s return. Hench, still in my head, this is not necessary with those edits in mind as well as not using the silly lines.

I’ll admit that I’m not as familiar with those edits as I’ve not been able to watch them. I remember reading through the list of Changes and didn’t notice anything that set it up that much, but maybe there’s something in the completed film that I haven’t seen.

jarbear said:

Ah yeah, that’s the order. My bad about the intel timing and all. Never mind.

Still personally again the corny fortnite lines.

I get that the Fortnite message is corny, and I agree… but it’s still a better way to give this information. So much of the film is corny that if you cut all that’s corny out, you might have slightly more than a trailer.

This new villain, who was presumed dead for over 30 years within continuity and in the real world has very little setup to being a threat still. That’s why I’m one that thinks this message should be in The Last Jedi after Snoke does and just before Luke arrives on Crait and Kylo’s travelling to Exegol (with the Mustafar sequence fully cut) should replace Rey travelling to Ahch-To in The Force Awakens.

For those that don’t like seeding Palpatine into the other films, I think having this broadcast, or at least part of it, in this Resistance meeting helps act as proof that Palpatine has returned, it’s something they can tangibly witness (unlike Poe’s “Somehow, Palpatine returned” line).

jarbear said:

The board conversation talks about Palpatine, the fleet, etc. Not sure what the hang up is.

What does it matter if Kylo says he’s going to hunt her … the resistance are always being hunted by FO and Rey would not go and do anything if Kylo says he is looking for her? The Psuedo Sith hunting the psudo Jedi? That’s kind of par for the course. Why would that stop her from doing anything?

Plus on Pasaana they have a line to keep low since their are FO patrols … so … that fits with being hunted too.

I think my bigger issue is that the scene starts with the death of the informant that somehow passes audio from a meeting before it happened. The scene is significant in that the First Order discovers they have a spy.

Also, Kylo is now masked, which forces the Resistance to not steal this information, let alone listen to it, until much later in the story, delaying the protagonists’ stories from starting.

jarbear said:

Sigh, so its based on that line of Poe, not that the Resistance got the intel. Ok, that clears up that part.

I think the better solution if people or really hounding on needing the resistance hear something. Forget the goofy broadcast. Just have part of the conversation of the First Order in their board room. Put some radio affect on it and THAT is the intel they got. Essentially, Hux recorded the conversation and sent it, with out intel, to the Spy to relay. That way, the Resistance hears part of that recording, that the audience has heard, and the next scene is the Resistance all together.

This allows 1.) Show and not tell (just need a section of the “board room meeting” audio distorted to achieve this). and 2.) The good guys can still can be at a disbelief on what they’ve heard and keep the lines of “Can we believe this?” and “Somehow he is alive” if needed.

Win win.

(The fortnite lines are just too corny, sorry.)

So they get intel of a meeting that starts with discussion of a spy, after killing the informant that gives the intel after his death? Seems very confusing… It’s also less useful information to know that the FO knows about the spy.

jarbear said:

Wait, the resistance never got the message? Huh? Im a bit lost on that one.

It never happened on-screen. R2-D2 has this massive file transfer, and all that comes from it is "Somehow, Palpatine returned.“

If that’s all they got. They could have escaped sooner, Boolio wouldn’t need to be decapitated, etc. Since the mention of the galactic broadcast has been cut from the crawl, the suggestion has been to give this scene more meaning and see the Resistance react to intel beyond a silly line.

jarbear said:

JakeRyan17 said:

jarbear said:

Hal 9000 said:

Eh, we just start the scene with the Palpatine message already playing, concluding right before Rose asks, “Do we believe this?” The audience doesn’t need to be told it’s Palpatine; we met him already.

It feels like people are getting all hooked up on the resistance not hearing something or having something played for them? Palps has been revealed to the audience, does their need to be some like … more confirmation of that? The resistance is already surprised by this and can’t believe it … do what’s the issue? I’m trying to follow this rational but don’t quite get it.

Because he was revealed to the Audience, not the Resistance. There are a lot of things that get revealed to the audience but not the heroes, such as Chewie’s survival. If it’s a major foundation to the motivation of the heroes, it should be in the film.

They decode the code and Poe says “Palpatine is alive.” They learn of his “survival/revival” from the message. So … it is revealed to them. They get intel from a spy and then tell their group they’ve decoded it and Palps is alive. So … yeah. It is revealed. Both sides know he is alive without them literally having to hear stuff. The audience knows, they know and acknowledge it.

I guess you missed where everyone discussed hating the contrived line of “Somehow, Palpatine returned”. They also never really receive the message that took forever to transfer and got an informant decapitated; if it’s just that line of intel, surely they didn’t need to transfer it to R2 more slowly than saying it out loud.

jarbear said:

Hal 9000 said:

Eh, we just start the scene with the Palpatine message already playing, concluding right before Rose asks, “Do we believe this?” The audience doesn’t need to be told it’s Palpatine; we met him already.

It feels like people are getting all hooked up on the resistance not hearing something or having something played for them? Palps has been revealed to the audience, does their need to be some like … more confirmation of that? The resistance is already surprised by this and can’t believe it … do what’s the issue? I’m trying to follow this rational but don’t quite get it.

Because he was revealed to the Audience, not the Resistance. There are a lot of things that get revealed to the audience but not the heroes, such as Chewie’s survival. If it’s a major foundation to the motivation of the heroes, it should be in the film.