JakeRyan17

Hal 9000 said:

Anyone know of any clips from The Clone Wars or Rebels or Resistance where several ships enter frame rapidly? Maybe could lift audio for the couple ‘squadrons’ of small ships at the end of the extended shot.

I wonder if maybe reintroducing the Wedge shot at the end could let us cut away from the extended shot right before it gets particularly problematic from an audio perspective with the squadrons.

And Poe can still say “hit those underbelly cannons” via comm.

I can’t think of any off the top of my head, Rogue One has a scene like that over Scarif.

Could always move the identification of the necklace to after the local troopers spot them?

This could make it more that the identification was partially because of the local troopers. Not sure if it would work, as I’m not currently looking at the scene.

Them being child soldiers since birth was more based in a throwaway line in The Force Awakens to justify not using Clones. It’s reintroduction in Rise of Skywalker is just to help justify sidelining Rose after the backlash by creating Jannah. It was never about storytelling or world building, unless you want to read Trevorrow’s script; it was about throwing shade at the prequels initially, then giving into toxic fans on Reddit.

I think that having recruits who want to fight are the real alternative to droids/clones/child soldiers because they are actively choosing it. That makes more narrative sense in the context of what’s going on. People who actively choose to be soldiers are generally far more loyal than people who are forced… if only that were a plot point on screen.

thebluefrog said:

JakeRyan17 said:

thebluefrog said:

omnimuffin said:

EddieDean said:

Welp, that totally puts that whole train of speculation to bed.

To be fair, I suppose we do have to acknowledge that Vader-as-father only came in an early ESB script, and Leia-as-sister only existed as an idea for ROTJ, so Star Wars does kind of have this ‘laying the tracks before the train’ approach.

But still, I don’t think that justifies this lack of oversight and planning for what should have been a cohesive trilogy from the start.

EU media will gradually embed Palpatine-as-grandfather in the canon more solidly, but personally I’ll always prefer Rey Nobody, especially knowing how little it mattered to the production team.

All valid points. I very much get where they got the impulse to freewheel it- not wanting to tie themselves down and wanting to recapture some of the ‘free’ atmosphere of the original trilogy, which, like you said, was equally freewheeled original trilogy. It was definitely a mistake.

Major difference was that it was all Lucas freewheelin’ it back in 1980, so there was at least one cohesive goal…whereas it was 3 different directors and writers all mostly ignoring each other for the sequels.

Not really true, Lucas famously hated a lot of the things Irvin Kershner was doing in Empire Strikes Back. And it was often others coming up with those big ideas and changes, most prominently Kasden and Kershner in Empire.

The other influences may be present, sure, but Lucas was still at the helm with his vision guiding things overall.

No, he felt so not at the helm with Empire that he made sure the majority of Return of the Jedi’s filming took place in his back yard.

I definitely prefer Rey’s parents being less noble. It makes her rise more meaningful, and more about her. Having her parents protect her since birth take away some of that mythic quality to me.

thebluefrog said:

omnimuffin said:

EddieDean said:

Welp, that totally puts that whole train of speculation to bed.

To be fair, I suppose we do have to acknowledge that Vader-as-father only came in an early ESB script, and Leia-as-sister only existed as an idea for ROTJ, so Star Wars does kind of have this ‘laying the tracks before the train’ approach.

But still, I don’t think that justifies this lack of oversight and planning for what should have been a cohesive trilogy from the start.

EU media will gradually embed Palpatine-as-grandfather in the canon more solidly, but personally I’ll always prefer Rey Nobody, especially knowing how little it mattered to the production team.

All valid points. I very much get where they got the impulse to freewheel it- not wanting to tie themselves down and wanting to recapture some of the ‘free’ atmosphere of the original trilogy, which, like you said, was equally freewheeled original trilogy. It was definitely a mistake.

Major difference was that it was all Lucas freewheelin’ it back in 1980, so there was at least one cohesive goal…whereas it was 3 different directors and writers all mostly ignoring each other for the sequels.

Not really true, Lucas famously hated a lot of the things Irvin Kershner was doing in Empire Strikes Back. And it was often others coming up with those big ideas and changes, most prominently Kasden and Kershner in Empire.

Hal 9000 said:

It seems that in any event her parents are redeemed as good and noble, unfortunately.

I feel like that can be edited down. We don’t need a personal connection between Ochi and Rey, he doesn’t have to kill her parents.

Neerb said:

JakeRyan17 said:
Another recommendation I’d throw in, that I’m sure people will reject, is having Chewbacca die. Make Rey face consequences for giving into the darkness and hatred.

Kijimi makes this functionally impossible imo. Even if super skilled editors with the free time rotoscoped him out of all of the other scenes and we cut his reaction shots from Leia’s death, the whole reason they board the ship on Kijimi is for Chewie, and everything that happens there is a big deal.

Maaaaaybe, in theory, one could somehow get 3P0 to read the dagger inscription on/after Pasaana and completely cut Kijimi out of the movie, but boy would that be difficult to make believable, and it’d absolutely kill the already rushed pacing (and the run time for that matter).

They also find out that they physically need the dagger while on Kijimi. This could be a more focused reason to board the Star Destroyer, with finding the falcon being Finn’s/Poe’s reason for splitting off. Again, just a thought.

It’s such a major moment for her character that she believes she killed Chewie, that bringing him back feels hollow. He’s also not super present in the rest of the movie, if the focus stays on the main characters you simply don’t need to cut away to him.

Hal 9000 said:

I think the movie still feels like having Rey be a Palpatine is integral to her struggle. But it’s obviously a left turn from TLJ.
I’m hoping the Rey Nobody version can be as good as possible, and I’m counting on the creativity of others that I will happily reflect in the product. But, I still think Rey Palpatine is better for this movie in and of itself.

But, hey, I kept Padme alive in Episode 3, so I am known not to totally abide by that thinking. At any rate, both cuts will be completed and made available.

I think you will still have to have her struggle with the Dark Side, similar to Luke’s fears in The Last Jedi.

These struggles and dark nature just aren’t being inherited anymore. They’re natural, just like in human nature how people are tempted with selfish choices and have to strive to be selfless (which are the core attributes that Lucas described the Dark and Light sides).

Another recommendation I’d throw in, that I’m sure people will reject, is having Chewbacca die. Make Rey face consequences for giving into the darkness and hatred.

ziggyonice said:

Hal 9000 said:

For anyone who would like it, here’s the ending scene with no added music. (The video track is compressed, but the audio is not.)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ol5gOj66ASm93SRLx7YrnGfgifSc0y_9/view?usp=sharing

Is there supposed to be a sound effect of the lightsaber being turned off?

Noticed it’s ignited and then suddenly it’s not.

I think time passes, I don’t think she turns it off in the original version either.

StarkillerAG said:

JakeRyan17 said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

Okay but what would any of this achieve? Leave it as Han’ backstory and move on.

It would be a radical change, isn’t that what this thread is?

But radical changes for the sake of radical changes are kinda dumb. I don’t see any apparent benefit to having Solo not actually be about Han, it would just be a bunch of work for absolutely nothing.

Depends how recontextualised you go with it, if you find a way to integrate it with the others sequels, etc.

Plus, I doubt it was ever a serious idea… just don’t like someone getting rude about it and telling people to shut up after they dropped the topic already. We’re only discussing it now because someone reinvigorated the conversation about it while being rude in their attempts to end it. Had they commented a new idea or turned the conversation in a new direction, it wouldn’t likely have been brought back up.

Anakin Starkiller said:

Okay but what would any of this achieve? Leave it as Han’ backstory and move on.

It would be a radical change, isn’t that what this thread is?

thebluefrog said:

JakeRyan17 said:

thebluefrog said:

JakeRyan17 said:

thebluefrog said:

Rework Solo to make it about Han Solo…jr.

Use a scene of older Harrison Ford talking about his son, then cut to Alden Ehrenreich.

That would be QUITE the rework, haha. What would you do about the Empire?

Change every word “empire” to be “first order”, of course.

But the Stormtroopers aren’t the same… would you have someone CG out helmets?

That’d be the complicated way.

The easier way is to insert a line “these old uniforms are being phased out next year. Just use them for now, rookie.”

😂

thebluefrog said:

JakeRyan17 said:

thebluefrog said:

Rework Solo to make it about Han Solo…jr.

Use a scene of older Harrison Ford talking about his son, then cut to Alden Ehrenreich.

That would be QUITE the rework, haha. What would you do about the Empire?

Change every word “empire” to be “first order”, of course.

But the Stormtroopers aren’t the same… would you have someone CG out helmets?

thebluefrog said:

Rework Solo to make it about Han Solo…jr.

Use a scene of older Harrison Ford talking about his son, then cut to Alden Ehrenreich.

That would be QUITE the rework, haha. What would you do about the Empire?

Rodney-2187 said:

There will be an expansion pack of Bad Batch characters for the new Lego Skywalker Saga game. That game is scheduled to be released in Spring 2021. Could this series be released around the same time or before? The Bad Batch did show up in season 7 of The Clone Wars, but I’m thinking they may want to start their series not long after The Mandalorian season 2 finishes up, just to keep the streaming going. I think the character pack DLC would make more sense after the series premiers, but I suppose the arc they’ve already been in could be enough. Just wishful thinking.

It would most likely start streaming in a similar timeline to Clone Wars’ final season, winter 2021, give or take a couple weeks, as it’s the almost entirely the same team (writers, animators, editors, etc… give or take a couple new hires).

Mandalorian shifted a week or so between seasons, so maybe Bad Batch will be slightly earlier in 2021 than Clone Wars was in 2020… or maybe it’ll be slightly later due to COVID-19. Disney may not have even decided yet.

Sir Ridley said:

sade1212 said:

It’d be pretty easy to use Nvidia Slowmo or some other AI to extend the duration of that shot, but I suppose you’d have to cut the previous shot(s) a little shorter to maintain music sync.

I think perhaps it could loop backwards at the end (since they stand so still), combined with a digital zoom to continue the camera move. Maybe. The music sync could be a problem of course.

If you have After Effects, you could possibly use Mocha to track the camera movement/push in to create the zoom in on the reused footage.

rebothejedi said:

I did include bad batch as essential viewing. Also, With the way this guide is set up, It would be a bit confusing to put the Martez sisters before the Bad Batch. Even if I could do it in a way that worked I probably wouldn’t. The creators of Clone wars season 7 didn’t make it in perfect chronological order for a reason. I think the Bad Batch arc is a better intro to the season than if we were to start with Ahsoka and the Martez sisters. Also, I find it interesting to cut to ahsoka in a very different situation, contrasting life in the Jedi order and life not in the Jedi order. I don’t really get what you’re trying to say with the second part of your post. I am aware that The Siege of Mandalore and Revenge of the Sith feature Anakin’s return to Coruscant during the battle featuring Palpatine’s kidnapping. If you wanted me to change the guide to fit that, the problem is, there is only so much you can put in those paragraphs. I did try to address the fact that the siege of Mandalore ties into ROTS.

It’s not perfect chronological order because they wanted the season to restart with action, to have an exciting premiere. It wasn’t as strict of a narrative choice when you’re talking about the series as a whole.

I was just trying to give a timeline and show where those final episodes take place. Ahsoka’s Walkabout/Martez Sisters takes place a bit more than 6mo before ROTS, as Anakin is leaving, Bad Batch takes place maybe a month or so later when Anakin is gone, and then Siege and ROTS are when he returns to the surprise pregnancy.

It’s mainly to help that narrative when doing a big rewatch of everything in order that it makes sense to move them around. If this is a shortcut of episodes to get the general gist of the series but not watch all 7 seasons between AOTC and ROTS, I feel like those episodes in chronological order might help more.

I wish Genndy had cared more about the series. Lucas recruited him because he liked Samurai Jack, but Lucas wanted to go further than Genndy was interested in going, and Genndy didn’t want to stay glued to Star Wars.

Anakin was terribly cast, but the animation was beautiful.

The more I rewatch it, and the more I learn about that transition, the more I understand it. They parted ways, and Lucas sought out Filoni after his work on Avatar: The Last Airbender. This time, Lucas made clear his intentions: a long running series in 3D animation. Lucas pushed for nonlinear storytelling, and to aim it more for kids.

At the beginning, they were supposed to kinda follow continuity of the micro series, but Lucas quickly transitioned to allowing the new series to contradict it. There are still moments of continuity that were never re-adapted, such as Ventress’s introduction, Anakin becoming a Jedi Knight, or Grievous’ introduction. These impressive and minimalist stories were so well crafted that it’s difficult not to hold them dear.

I also loved Dirge and some of the other weirder elements and characters.

Ahsoka’s Walkabout arc is all about showing Ahsoka how civilians view the Jedi and broader conflict.

(Though this arc was originally written during the original run, the Martez Sisters were created in the Disney Era. Han/Nyx and Lando would served similar roles, but felt less like “normal civilians” since they’re recurring heroes)

It’s gonna be great. These were the last characters created by George back when he was running things, and were always intended to spin off into their own show.

Can’t wait for it to come out.

Also, Ahsoka’s Walkabout/Martez Sisters arc takes place before The Bad Batch arc. When Ahsoka and the Martez Sisters leave Coruscant, Anakin and Ahsoka connect through the Force. This is before Anakin leaves for the Outer Rim for about six months (leading up to Revenge of the Sith).

The Bad Batch is set during those Outer Rim conflicts while Anakin is unable to return to Coruscant.

The Siege of Mandalore and Revenge of the Sith feature his return to Coruscant during the battle featuring Palpatine’s kidnapping.

And lastly, The Bad Batch arc is essential viewing with the new series coming out next year.

TheAlaskanSandman said:

JakeRyan17 said:

TheAlaskanSandman said:

Rey kills Palpatine just like he wanted and told her his plan was. Everything plays out as is, then at the last scene when she says Skywalker, her eyes flash Sith and you here Palpatines laugh. Roll credits. Cause she did exactly what Palps wanted and he took her body. Now set to destroy the universe in the name of the Skywalkers

I dig it. That would be possible to do…

I feel like it should be a different scene at the end though, where should the epilogue be? Too bad there’s so little footage of “Dark Rey”, it would be fun to create a new epilogue scene with her.

Yea it would have been nice if they explored Dark Rey more

Or at all… 😂

TheAlaskanSandman said:

Rey kills Palpatine just like he wanted and told her his plan was. Everything plays out as is, then at the last scene when she says Skywalker, her eyes flash Sith and you here Palpatines laugh. Roll credits. Cause she did exactly what Palps wanted and he took her body. Now set to destroy the universe in the name of the Skywalkers

I dig it. That would be possible to do…

I feel like it should be a different scene at the end though, where should the epilogue be? Too bad there’s so little footage of “Dark Rey”, it would be fun to create a new epilogue scene with her.

ziggyonice said:

StarkillerAG said:
I still don’t think introducing Palpatine so early really works, JakeRyan. It raises the uncomfortable question of why Palpatine’s name is never spoken during the entire runtime of TLJ

I mean, Luke mentions him in TLJ as Darth Sideous. I don’t think it would be too out of place to mention him in TLJ again, or even give some sort of hints to Rey’s lineage.

Also, the goal was not just that single scene being there in Force Awakens, and Kylo would be the only one to know about Palpatine.

I’d have Palpatine telepathically encouraging Kylo to kill Leia:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bwXR7hUwZ7lZLbEfBkLQiRYZhi6K6sdN/view?usp=sharing

Palpatine’s announcement broadcast would be during the Battle of Crait, just before Luke arrives:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tUe4Nz4dKptm5UzcBu2QhX9N9FuaISoa/view?usp=sharing

And finally Palpatine would try and telepathically tell Kylo to kill Rey during their last Force connection:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1s-thAiSISTEYqjn0oiyRuoWgdiBScyZ-/view?usp=sharing

So, Palpatine would show up a few times during The Last Jedi, in my mind. I know it’s not everyone’s cup of tea, but to me it’s tough to fix Rise of Skywalker in isolation from adjusting the other films, when TROS is the one that takes such a left turn without setup.