That looks incredible. I can’t imagine the difficulty it would take to do it throughout the film, but I’m sure many would love to see it.
That looks incredible. I can’t imagine the difficulty it would take to do it throughout the film, but I’m sure many would love to see it.
I mean, it’s not necessarily a better deal. Disney can continue to adjust their platform in attempts to prevent piracy, but anyone can rip a disc without any coding/hacking know-how or VPN capabilities. So, while those with the ability to rip from D+ may have “the better deal”, far less people are able to pirate and just end up subscribing.
Also, there’s more and more technology going out with tracking digital screeners (for awards season), where they can lay in video information specific to each person accessing the file to track down anyone who pirated it, without showing up to human eyes (though staying present in transcodes). It’s not likely robust enough for all of Disney+‘s subscribers just yet, but in a couple years it likely will be.
I don’t mean to be “impertinent”, just giving story reasons for my opinions. Yes, I can make my own cut, and might. I didn’t want to “rip off” Smudger’s idea, and wanted to be supportive of his project and do my best to help him make it the best it can be.
But I never claimed ownership of this cut. I thought it was a discussion forum where suggestions and feedback were welcome? I guess it’s not?
Yes, as I said before ideas and suggestions are always welcome and certainly helpful.
But (imo) not in that demanding tone.
I already noticed this in the other thread and I would like to say I do not like this way.That’s all.
Are you demanding I not be “demanding”? I’m confused, are you disrespectfully asking me to be more respectful?
I’m defending my opinions, I’m not demanding. I understand that Smudger is gonna do whatever he wants, but if people are gonna say something is a plot hole when it’s not, or that character development doesn’t matter, I’m gonna bring up a counterpoint. I don’t feel that’s out of line, especially as anything I say gets four people talking about how they disagree with me, but if I dare disagree with them I’m being “impertinent”?
I already pointed out that one of the recommendations (which was one I agree with) was fully shut down by Smudger and not going to happen. I don’t see how calling people names and making assumptions about their tone and intent is any more respectful though.
I don’t mean to be “impertinent”, just giving story reasons for my opinions. Yes, I can make my own cut, and might. I didn’t want to “rip off” Smudger’s idea, and wanted to be supportive of his project and do my best to help him make it the best it can be.
But I never claimed ownership of this cut. I thought it was a discussion forum where suggestions and feedback were welcome? I guess it’s not?
I put Kylo meeting the Emperor at the end of VII, personally. This recontextualises Snoke, as well as giving motivation to why Kylo feels he needs Rey: he knows that Snoke is a puppet. This also gets rid of the silly cliffhanger with Luke, especially as that sequence is repeated in TLJ (which I also extended to show more of the buildup from TFA).
To me, this helps focus the trilogy more into a three act structure and deepens the motivations of Kylo (and why he flips from Supreme Leader to Palpatine’s lackey so quickly: he failed to get Rey to take his hand and help him overthrow the Emperor).
I mean, releasing it on physical media only gives non-subscribers a reason to not subscribe, while also making piracy easier (not that it’s completely prevented now), and production costs of the media itself eats into that revenue.
Disney’s big announcement to focus on DTC (Direct to Consumer; Disney+, Hulu, Star, ESPN+) should be seen as the official move away from prioritising theatrical and physical media releases. Not that they won’t happen, but the focus and company restructuring point at DTC now.
I think home media is done for them, outside of the films anyway. Smaller profit margins, and less return payments/repurchases. It doesn’t make financial sense.
Netflix doesn’t release their originals on DVD/BD when they don’t have to. What happens is that other production companies produce those shows and films, then can release them separately from Netflix unless Netflix puts it in the contract not to. In these cases, another company is making more profit than just through Netflix, and Netflix still gets a cut.
For example, Disney doesn’t make money from the Marvel shows living on Netflix after the initial deal. They do make money off of iTunes/DVD/BD sales. Netflix let’s them do this, or Criterion release Marriage Story, etc. because they get a percentage of those profits too: everyone is making more money. But with something like Mandalorian, Disney makes all the money already from it streaming on D+. They don’t need to share with other companies or production costs of the physical media itself. They make more money by keeping it on their service only.
The basic issue is that TFA and TLJ’s characters are not the same characters. It’s very clear the respective directors wrote their own versions and they are very hard to reconcile. This doesn’t mean any one is particularly better–just that they are different and uneven.
A smooth edit would have to reconcile the characters in either direction–either change TFA or TLJ’s portrayals.
They’re pretty consistent. That’s the only saving grace of there being so little character development in TFA, there’s nothing to contradict in TLJ.
Let’s be honest, Snoke was pretty much wasted. The rich playboy appearance would be fine if it wasn’t erased in 4 minutes after introduction, so that image was also useless. I’ve said this before; there was a huge missed opportunity with Solo to fix the majority of Snoke’s issues–instead of Maul, make him Q’ira’s boss. One cameo explains what Snoke was doing in the OT, how he got power, and fits his rich crimelord image.
But he’s not a crime lord, he’s a dark sider and has aspirations of galactic domination, not wealth and crime. He wants to decide the law, not subvert the law. Just because he doesn’t dress in black with so many shadows that he might as well have a sign that says “evil” pointing toward him doesn’t change that.
He dresses like emperors normally do. We usually see kings and emperors dressing extravagantly. That’s the norm.
As it stands, the best possible edit would reconcile the fact he’s a clone/experiment of Palpatine.
That’s literally the canon thing, as shown in The Rise of Skywalker… No additional editing is needed to communicate that idea, except to seed it earlier by revealing Palpatine to Kylo earlier in the narrative.
Does Din know that Gideon dies? How does Luke know Vader’s alive in Empire Strikes Back? His ship was shot down in space…
You all keep saying plot hole, it’s not a plot hole.
The difference with ESB is that there was a time skip of 3 years in between ANH and that movie, by which point Luke would have has plenty of time to figure out Vader was alive. Mando doesn’t have any time in season 2 to figure that out offscreen, he’s on a mission the whole time. It is a plot hole.
Except we don’t see the entire conversation between Boba, Fennec, and Din as they get on Slave I, fly to Nevarro, then as Cara boards Slave I and they fly to meet Mayfield. There’s plenty of off-screen time to assume a conversation takes place.
Lines in Chapter 15 could also be changed and cut around to “where they took him” instead of saying Gideon by name if it’s THAT big of a deal to you, but it’s something that will easily be assumed and then character development and raising stakes can be preserved.
Our lead character making sacrifices, showing growth from when he refused to do the same action in the previous film’s climax, is a far more important aspect to the story being told, and has more bearing on the primary relationship between Din and Grogu.
Fair point. But as long as I didn’t get rusty in storytelling and direction, you should never let the audience assume everything vital to a story and therefore show it (either by words or image).
I understand that, but no matter what: the audience will have seen Gideon’s survival beforehand. Between the scene in The Heiress (talking to Imperial officers) and his scene at the end of The Siege (which could still be connected to the repair seen in The Heiress). This is all assuming that the scene at the end of Redemption isn’t restored to the first film. The scene in the Imperial base doesn’t communicate anything to the audience that won’t be revealed in greater detail later, more than likely this week.
And I may have mis-remembered in Chapter 12, but I thought I remembered Din trying to contradict Bo-Katan and say that Gideon was dead… that would be after her telling him he’s not dead, right? Or by saying something that informs him that Gideon is alive, which is why he attempts to contradict her. I dunno, maybe that’s in The Siege somewhere. It doesn’t really matter though, as that’s not a significant detail. Cut him thinking Gideon is dead and then the problem is solved.
It’s really simple to remove the one line Din has of assuming Gideon’s death. Otherwise, there’s no reason for him to assume that a man he already thought impossibly escaped death did so again in a means we’ve seen at least four times on screen now (surviving a TIE crash; ANH, TFA, TRoS, Ch8).
I’ve always advocated for adding Gideon’s survival, but Smudger has been pretty clear he doesn’t want to. I do think his character development in The Believer is significant enough for inclusion. It’s the low point before Act 3, showing how much Din has changed and grown, and how much he cares for Grogu.
Does Din know that Gideon dies? How does Luke know Vader’s alive in Empire Strikes Back? His ship was shot down in space…
You all keep saying plot hole, it’s not a plot hole.
The difference with ESB is that there was a time skip of 3 years in between ANH and that movie, by which point Luke would have has plenty of time to figure out Vader was alive. Mando doesn’t have any time in season 2 to figure that out offscreen, he’s on a mission the whole time. It is a plot hole.
Except we don’t see the entire conversation between Boba, Fennec, and Din as they get on Slave I, fly to Nevarro, then as Cara boards Slave I and they fly to meet Mayfield. There’s plenty of off-screen time to assume a conversation takes place.
Lines in Chapter 15 could also be changed and cut around to “where they took him” instead of saying Gideon by name if it’s THAT big of a deal to you, but it’s something that will easily be assumed and then character development and raising stakes can be preserved.
Our lead character making sacrifices, showing growth from when he refused to do the same action in the previous film’s climax, is a far more important aspect to the story being told, and has more bearing on the primary relationship between Din and Grogu.
I guess that look aspect is just surface level to me. Just as I don’t feel a need to re-colour the Emperor’s red robes in Revenge of the Sith or The Bad Batch trailer, I think it’s okay that Snoke changed his clothes. I like the idea that some villains might bathe.
I do think the Lando series will give you the tone you want though.
I think Lord & Miller’s take would’ve been far better. A nice silly adventure instead of a generic one.
I mean, I loved Spaceballs… but I’m glad they decided to keep the tone of Solo fun but still connected and grounded to the rest of Star Wars. Lord & Miller didn’t want to do that, and their version would’ve been like making Lego Star Wars canon (which, it’s not).
The generic aspect comes from having Ron Howard be the replacement… that doesn’t mean Lord & Miller would’ve been better, just that Howard was the wrong choice.
I guess it just bugs me that as great as they are, the Snoke scenes in TFA really just don’t align with the way he’s depicted in TLJ at all.
I disagree. He’s still irritable, manipulative, and overconfident. He just has more to do in The Last Jedi, but he’s very much depicted the same way.
Compare his hologram scene and his first scene with Hux and Kylo from The Last Jedi to his hologram scenes in The Force Awakens.
The only time he changes is when he expresses glee at his assumed wins, which is not just a different emotion but a different context to react to. We don’t see him react to the destruction of the New Republic capital planets, but I assume he was just as gleeful as when he learned Hux was tracking the Resistance and when Kylo brought him Rey.
Has anybody thought of replacing Supreme Leader Snoke in TFA with Palpatine? The Snoke we meet in TFA doesn’t really align with the one in TLJ, but it matches Palpatine perfectly. The surprise of his reveal on Exegol could be preserved by obscure his face even more than it already is (which is a lot) and his different voice is accounted for with the “I have been every voice you have ever heard inside your head” line. The only issue is its placement, as at this point Palpatine has not yet been discovered. What reason would they have for talking to him?
The other big issue is that the reveal of Snoke, when we meet him in the Throne Room for the first time, is lessened if we don’t see him in those scenes. Especially as he’s talked up as a major threat throughout TFA and the first two acts of TLJ. I think moving the scene where Kylo meets Palpatine earlier helps merge the two characters earlier in the narrative, without getting rid of the sense of threat to the other characters.
Does Din know that Gideon dies? How does Luke know Vader’s alive in Empire Strikes Back? His ship was shot down in space…
You all keep saying plot hole, it’s not a plot hole.
Gideon is established as still being alive when he meets Bo-Katan, and it’s not like he starts hunting Gideon prior to Grogu’s capture… could be that Grogu’s capture is what establishes Gideon as being alive at all. Boba might even mention it, I know he mentioned Din being hunted.
But even after Grogu was captured, Mando would still have no idea Gideon was alive. All he saw was some weird droids kidnapping Grogu, and a Star Destroyer jumping into hyperspace. Nothing that confirms Gideon’s survival. I still maintain that cutting Chapter 12 creates a plot hole because of that, and it should be kept in at least a trimmed fashion.
So, while the tanks are fun, and seeing familiar faces that don’t contribute to the story or character development is fun, I think story beats and major character development to the protagonist should be prioritised.
But the character development given to Din didn’t really last. He took his mask off, but after that he put it back on and pretended it never happened. Neither episode is really crucial to the character development, so I’d prefer the one that establishes several new plot elements over an episode where the changes don’t really have much consequence.
Character development is defined by a character making a choice. Having witnesses doesn’t define the moment (which there is one living witness). Think back to when the Armourer asked him if he took it off in front of another, he could have lied… but it’s about honour. That sacrifice and his honour are still being risked even if the Imperials die. He’s still sacrificing everything he held dear prior to meeting Grogu. That’s worth keeping, especially since it was such a big part of the first film’s climax that he was willing to die rather than remove his helmet to receive medical help.
Also, having multiple characters talk about Gideon and inform Din he’s being hunted right before the Imperials kidnap Grogu (again ignored that Bo-Katan mentioned Gideon isn’t dead). There’s no plot hole.
One option is using instrumentals…for example, perhaps the instrumental to 2Pac’s Pain could be added where appropriate. Maybe in the scene where Anakin is on Tatooine seeking out his missing mother.
Here’s an attempt with Pain. I’m not totally sure about it, mainly because the beat is so repetitive. I brought in some of the backing vocals at the end, I think that helps.
Hey thanks for giving it a shot…not bad. You are right though, I guess that loop is a bit repetitive without Pac’s rhymes in there for variation.
So perhaps that spot needs something different.
Ah well. Again, thanks for giving it a try though.
Of course! It’s kind of a fun experiment. I haven’t been able to figure out anything for A New Hope though… and then I got sidetracked with the holidays.
Gideon is established as still being alive when he meets Bo-Katan, and it’s not like he starts hunting Gideon prior to Grogu’s capture… could be that Grogu’s capture is what establishes Gideon as being alive at all. Boba might even mention it, I know he mentioned Din being hunted.
The tanks will be re-introduced and explained if and when they become important, and everything we learn about Cara in The Siege is re-established in Chapter 15. Grief Carga was given closure, and we don’t really get any character development with him, Cara, or Din in The Siege.
So, while the tanks are fun, and seeing familiar faces that don’t contribute to the story or character development is fun, I think story beats and major character development to the protagonist should be prioritised.
But Xizor (and more importantly the Black Sun) already is cannon, so there are possibilities there. Dash Rendar I could give or take.
Xizor would make for a really cool re-canonized villain, but I didn’t know he’d been brought back. I remember seeing the Black Sun and the Falleen species in TCW though.
Yeah, I only remember the Falleen species and the Black Sun as well. Didn’t Maul kill all those we saw? If that scene made Xizor canon, is he dead now? 😅
EDIT: just saw Galaxy’s Edge brought him back, that’s awesome.
Palpatine’s speech in the trailer sounds like its taken directly from ROTS so it’ll be interesting to see if that’s his only appearance in this series or if McDiarmid will reprise his role like he did in Rebels.
With seeing Tarkin, I bet that we’ll get more Imperial officers than The Emperor himself.
Speaking of voices, in addition to weather or not Fennec will be an ally or antagonist in the series, I’m assuming they’ve gotten Ming-Na Wen to voice the character. Since this is a younger version they could justify another voice actress, but since she’s already on The Mandalorian I can’t imagine it’d be hard to get her to voice her here as well.
I’m sure they’ll bring her back. She’s too much of a badass not to, AND she’s a voice actress. She voiced Mulan way back when, and doesn’t sound all that different now.
Huh, I only saw the dubbed version of Mulan as a kid so I did not know that.
Yeah! She’s done a few other things here and there as well. Mulan, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., and The Mandalorian are her most well-known works, at least in the US.
Shadows will not happen. Pablo Hidalgo and some of the other story gurus hate it too much. I imagine LAL will move onto The High Republic or another less-explored part of the timeline next.
Not that I expected a new Shadows of the Empire, especially since Forces of Destiny changed the lore so that Maz gave Leia the Boushh outfit instead of Guri, but just out of curiosity, do you know why Hidalgo doesn’t like it. I was always under the impressions tat Shadows of the Empire was quite well regarded. I really loved it anyway, but I’m not someone who personally needs the new canon to re-canonize specific stories. I think they’re fine just as they are, and I don’t mind dealing with two continuities.
I’m honestly with you. I consider Legends/EU to be an alternate timeline, not unlike Abrams’ Star Trek films or the various iterations of Batman on film. Their quality is… well, not all of it is good. I loved it growing up, because it’s what we had. I’m also quite glad we’re freed up from it to get new Star Wars stories that can pave their own way.
Also, who/what is LAL? Not a name/abbreviation I’m familiar with.
LAL is Lucasfilm Animation. LFL is Lucasfilm, Ltd.
Well fuck Pablo Hidalgo if that’s the case. I wouldn’t hope for a full on SOTE adaptation at this point, but there is a motherlode of great ideas that they developed for it back in the 90s. Combine that with new stuff and you could have a show similar in structure to the Clone Wars spanning from shortly after Yavin to shortly after Endor.
They’ve filled that space so much though, especially with comics and even the new Rogue Squadron movie. I don’t think it’s a bad idea for them to move out of the OT. Seems like they’re trying to slowly edge away from it, with things set 6+ years after and 5-10 years before.
I can’t see why LAL couldn’t be working within two eras at the same time. They kinda did just that with Rebels and Resistance.
I’m sure they will work in multiple eras, I just think the goal is to show more love to new places that haven’t already got so much going on. I’m pretty sure the main reason Bad Batch is happening is because they were the last characters created by George with Dave.
Also, LAL is such a tiny piece of Lucasfilm. Like, look at those credits. Most of Rebels, Resistance, and Clone Wars are all the same crew. Any overlap was just in the final and first seasons between shows. The people who are different look like new hires replacing people who left for other projects outside of Lucasfilm/Disney.
I loved Shadows as well, and would love for Dash and Xizor to come back in some way… but Boba’s characterisation in Mandalorian already is at odds with Shadows.
Palpatine’s speech in the trailer sounds like its taken directly from ROTS so it’ll be interesting to see if that’s his only appearance in this series or if McDiarmid will reprise his role like he did in Rebels.
With seeing Tarkin, I bet that we’ll get more Imperial officers than The Emperor himself.
Speaking of voices, in addition to weather or not Fennec will be an ally or antagonist in the series, I’m assuming they’ve gotten Ming-Na Wen to voice the character. Since this is a younger version they could justify another voice actress, but since she’s already on The Mandalorian I can’t imagine it’d be hard to get her to voice her here as well.
I’m sure they’ll bring her back. She’s too much of a badass not to, AND she’s a voice actress. She voiced Mulan way back when, and doesn’t sound all that different now.
I wonder how many seasons of Bad Batch are we in store for. I can’t really see seven or even four years worth of stories based around these characters.
I would imagine a few. I doubt enough to connect up to Solo or Obi-Wan Kenobi. I could see four seasons, maybe more though.
And when it’s done, I’m still hoping for an animated series based on Shadows Of The Empire and set during and after the original trilogy. I know that wouldn’t be breaking any new ground but I feel like the animated shows have done a great job so far expanding the story around the core films and I hope they continue to do so.
Shadows will not happen. Pablo Hidalgo and some of the other story gurus hate it too much. I imagine LAL will move onto The High Republic or another less-explored part of the timeline next.