HeKS

jones1899 said:

Lots of good stuff here.

Let's start with the nuke: I think your scene would work just fine as far as the edit goes, but what worries me is the fact that Indy is now just watching something spectacular take place as opposed to being knee deep in the action like usual. Now, I realize there are vastly differing opinions on him actually surviving the blast in a fridge, but I still think that if take out the goofiness of "fine don't wait for me", edit out the fridge flying over the car, cut a few fridge bounces, and have a longer more dramatic delay before the fridge door opens, AND maybe (if possible) not even see Indy get to his feet, but cut after the door flops open, it would be a vast improvement over whats there originaly. Yes, we do have the problem that everything else Indy faces seems to be "kid's play" in comparison, but if we are able to add more of a sense of danger to the later scenes where his actual family is at risk then we might be in better shape. What do you think?

Well, I agree that what you're suggesting would be better than what's there now, but I kinda feel like leaving in this scene presents more problems than it's worth. For example, say we wanted to de-stupidify this scene. We would need to cut out Indy's near pratfalls with the manequins when he first walks out of the house, his second "that's not good at all", his running to car yelling 'wait' over and over, his 'fine, don't wait for me', his running back to the curb (because why would he be out in the street if he didn't chase the car there). Then there's the whole stupidity of the fridge issue on account of how he'd never survive, and the fact you've pointed out that nothing in the rest of the movie will seem threatening after he survives a nuke in a fridge. And what do we gain from the scene? After all our cuts, about 20 seconds of Indy in the town, and the iconic shot of the mushroom cloud ... but we have the mushroom cloud in my scenario where he never goes to the town too. So all we REALLY gain by leaving in the fridge story is the 20 or so seconds of him stumbling through the town. While I sort of like seeing him in that setting, I don't find those few seconds of footage enough of a gain when compared all we lose by leaving it in.

Thoughts?

As for the interogation room dialog, I think you've made some good cuts here. 2 things:

1. I kinda like Indy saying "glad to see you too, Bob" (or w/e) in reponse to his "indy, thank god" it works as a sort of joke ya know? As in Indy is glad to see anyone after just missing a nuke and referencing bob saying "thank god" as if he is just really glad to see him.

2. I assume you 've kept the "who is she" line from Indy b/c we are cutting her name from earlier in the film right?

1. Fair enough. I'm not crazy about the "too" in there, but it's not that big of a deal and I get your point.

2. Exactly. We've now removed all the things that reveal her identity to him - which I think kinda makes the opening play better - so now it makes sense for him to ask who she was. I don't care what Koepp was thinking ... it didn't make any sense the way he organized that. In the interrogation scene, when he asks who she was, the FBI guy says to describe her, and then some time passes off-screen and he gets handed her file, looks at it, and then asks AGAIN who she is before finally being told her name. Why wouldn't he have just said her name, which he already knew (along with her rank), instead of giving a description? It's ridiculous.

Looking good besides. I swear I'd pay someone to do all of these edits just to get a good movie out of this.

So would I. But like I said, if nobody else does it I'll eventually give it a try ... but it will probably take a long while cause I have no experience with it, so I'd prefer laser give it a shot since he's done so well so far.

Now how do we get rid of Ox, add more of a serious sense of gritty danger, and more music from the OT...?

Unfortunately, I think it would be pretty much impossible to remove Ox, but there seems to be TONS of him that could be cut.

As for gritty danger, I actually think the color correction on its own will make a big difference, as will a better use of music. Better cuts to tighten up the action and removing the stupid elements and excess CGI will help too, as is evidenced by laser's initial recut of the jungle chase. I'm thinking I'll probably leave the music changes to the end. I think that's something we'd be able to do better while looking at an actual edited cut.

Ryan

Ok. Here are my suggestions for the dialog. I've removed most of the lame, cheesy and poorly delivered lines, along with references to stuff that hasn't happened in our cut.

Most stuff will just have strikeout, but if it's strikeout, bold and italics it means either that I REALLY think it should come out, or, in some cases, HAS to come out.

--------------------------------------------------------------

INDY 4 - FBI INTERROGATION SCENE DIALOG

INDY: I HAD NO REASON TO BELIEVE THAT MAC WAS A SPY.

INDY: HE WAS MI6 WHEN I WAS IN OSS.

INDY: WE DID 20, 30 MISSIONS TOGETHER IN EUROPE AND THE PACIFIC.

FBI 1: Don't wave your war record in our face, Colonel Jones.

FBI 1: We all served.

INDY: No kidding? What side were you on?

FBI 2: I don't think you recognize the gravity of your situation.

FBI 2: You aided and abetted KGB agents

FBI 2: who broke into a top-secret military installation

FBI 2: in the middle of the United States of America, my country.

INDY: What was in the steel box they took?

FBI 1: You tell us. You've seen it before.

INDY: Oh. You mean that Air Force fiasco in '47.

INDY: I was tossed into a bus with blacked-out windows

INDY: and 20 people I wasn't allowed to speak to.

INDY: Hauled out in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere

INDY: on some urgent recovery project and shown what?

INDY: Pieces of wreckage

INDY: and an intensely magnetic shroud covering mutilated remains? (We hid what was in the box/shroud through earlier edits and in this scene he asks what was in it twice! So I don't think he should know about the mutilated remains. It will make his surprise in the tent later seem more reasonable)

INDY: None of us was ever given the full picture.

INDY: And we were threatened with treason if we ever talked about it.

INDY: So, you tell me, what was in the box?

ROSS: Indy, thank God.

ROSS: Don't you know it's dangerous to climb into a refrigerator?

ROSS: Those things can be deathtraps!

INDY: Good to see you, too, Bob. (Bob just says, "thank God," not "good to see you")

ROSS: Relax, boys. I can vouch for Dr. Jones.

INDY: What the hell is going on?

INDY: KGB on American soil? Who is that woman?

FBI 1: Describe her.

INDY: Tall, thin, mid-30s,

INDY: carried a sword of some kind, a rapier, I think.

INDY: Yeah, that's her.

FBI 2: You sure she's here?

INDY: Here and gone. Who is she?

ROSS: Irina Spalko, she was Stalin's fair-haired girl.

ROSS: His favorite scientist, if you can call psychic research science.

FBI 2: General Ross...

ROSS: She's leading teams from the Kremlin all over the world.

ROSS: Scooping up artifacts

ROSS: she thinks might have paranormal military applications.

FBI 2: General Ross!

ROSS: Back off, Paul.

ROSS: Not everyone in the Army's a Commie and certainly not Indy.

INDY: What exactly am I being accused of, besides surviving a nuclear blast? (He stupidly pronounces it "nucular", so this has to go)

FBI 2: Nothing yet.

FBI 2: But frankly your association with George McHale

FBI 2: makes all your activities suspicious, including those during the war.

ROSS: Are you nuts?

ROSS: Do you have any idea how many medals this son of a bitch won?

FBI 2: A great many, I'm sure.

FBI 2: But does he deserve them? (I find these lines really lame and they were poorly delivered. I think Ross' comment flows fine into the following lines)

FBI 1: Dr. Jones, let's just say for now that you are of interest to the Bureau.

FBI 2: Of great interest.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Now, getting this to work visually is a whole other thing, because in a few cases it involves more than just cutting early. I'll be working on this problem next.

Ryan

I've taken the liberty of typing out the dialog for the whole interrogation scene. I'll post it here whole so everyone has access to it in it's original form, broken down in the same structure as the subtitles. Afterwards I'll go through in another post and strikeout what I think can be removed from the conversation itself. After that I'll try to figure out how the actual cuts can be made and shots adjusted to work with the revised conversation. I encourage other people here to try to do the same so we can take the best of everyone's ideas.

I'm really plugged into this project and interested in it now, so I really hope that laser, marion, and anyone else will want to get back on this soon.

Here it is. Have fun.

--------------------------------------------------------------

INDY 4 - FBI INTERROGATION SCENE DIALOG

INDY: I HAD NO REASON TO BELIVE THAT MAC WAS A SPY.

INDY: HE WAS MI6 WHEN I WAS IN OSS.

INDY: WE DID 20, 30 MISSIONS TOGETHER IN EUROPE AND THE PACIFIC.

FBI 1: Don't wave your war record in our face, Colonel Jones.

FBI 1: We all served.

INDY: No kidding? What side were you on?

FBI 2: I don't think you recognize the gravity of your situation.

FBI 2: You aided and abetted KGB agents

FBI 2: who broke into a top-secret military installation

FBI 2: in the middle of the United States of America, my country.

INDY: What was in the steel box they took?

FBI 1: You tell us. You've seen it before.

INDY: Oh. You mean that Air Force fiasco in '47.

INDY: I was tossed into a bus with blacked-out windows

INDY: and 20 people I wasn't allowed to speak to.

INDY: Hauled out in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere

INDY: on some urgent recovery project and shown what?

INDY: Pieces of wreckage

INDY: and an intensely magnetic shroud covering mutilated remains?

INDY: None of us was ever given the full picture.

INDY: And we were threatened with treason if we ever talked about it.

INDY: So, you tell me, what was in the box?

ROSS: Indy, thank God.

ROSS: Don't you know it's dangerous to climb into a refrigerator?

ROSS: Those things can be deathtraps!

INDY: Good to see you, too, Bob.

ROSS: Relax, boys. I can vouch for Dr. Jones.

INDY: What the hell is going on?

INDY: KGB on American soil? Who is that woman?

FBI 1: Describe her.

INDY: Tall, thin, mid-30s,

INDY: carried a sword of some kind, a rapier, I think.

INDY: Yeah, that's her.

FBI 2: You sure she's here?

INDY: Here and gone. Who is she?

ROSS: Irina Spalko, she was Stalin's fair-haired girl.

ROSS: His favorite scientist, if you can call psychic research science.

FBI 2: General Ross...

ROSS: She's leading teams from the Kremlin all over the world.

ROSS: Scooping up artifacts

ROSS: she thinks might have paranormal military applications.

FBI 2: General Ross!

ROSS: Back off, Paul.

ROSS: Not everyone in the Army's a Commie and certainly not Indy.

INDY: What exactly am I being accused of, besides surviving a nuclear blast? (He stupidly pronounces it "nucular", so this has to go)

FBI 2: Nothing yet.

FBI 2: But frankly your association with George McHale

FBI 2: makes all your activities suspicious, including those during the war.

ROSS: Are you nuts?

ROSS: Do you have any idea how many medals this son of a bitch won?

FBI 2: A great many, I'm sure.

FBI 2: But does he deserve them?

FBI 1: Dr. Jones, let's just say for now that you are of interest to the Bureau.

FBI 2: Of great interest.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Ryan

Wow. That FBI interogation scene is pretty bad. Fixing that might be even harder than the nuke stuff.

Ryan

Ok. Here goes. Covering minutes 15-22. Thoughts appreciated...

-------- 15 MINUTE MARK --------

- When Mac is in the truck with the commie driving towards Indy, Mac says "you don't know him" too many times. I think it should go, "Don't get clever, Boris. You don't know him." Then it should skip the "know him. know him." Cut to the shot outside the car but remove the first two times Mac says "You don't know him", leave in the next time he says it but leave out all the rest until "You don't know him. You don't know..." CRASH. At the very least take out where he says "know him. know him.".

- On rocket sled, maybe take out shot of the their faces near the start being pulled tight by the wind, so we just see it take off, continue down the tunnel, then exit to the outside. Remove the stupid gopher shots. I'm personally fine with the stuff after the sled stops. It's a little silly, but it's in the vein of Last Crusade and we've taken out a fair bit of stupidity up to this point.

- Here's the big tough one ... the nuked fridge. I'm wondering if there's a way to rework this whole section by entirely removing Indy from the test town. Here's what I'm thinking off the top of my head, but I'd like some help with this one...

##################### DOOMSTOWN REVISITED

I'm thinking that the people in the test town may or may not be looking for Indy, but even if they are, it doesn't mean he has to actually be there. What if we change the order so that it goes like this:

1) Show the car driving through the town when Indy jumps over the fence but zoom in slightly to take Indy climbing over the fence out of frame

2) Show establishing shots in the town of the manequins that Indy sees after he realizes it's fake people in the house and runs outside. Start the warning and instructions for the blast, continue showing the various shots of manequins but remove Indy reaction shots. Audio will need to be stretched out a bit because of the removal of reaction shots, so it can be stretched out over the zoom out from the town to the bomb.

3) Show soldiers jumping into car (try to remove Indy's "wait, wait" from off screen). Cut out Indy running into scene.

4) As the car of soldiers drives away, hitting some manequins, I'm pretty sure a bit of photoshop work could remove Indy from the frame long enough to get the car out of frame. Cut as soon as car is out of frame to remove Indy running up and saying, "Sure! Great! Don't wait for me!" Briefly show car driving away, removing Indy from frame again.

5) Show Indy cresting the hill from earlier when town first comes into view, show the closer up view from that shot.

6) Cut to interior shot of house after Indy's in the fridge, just to show the initial flash of the blast, which I think works even without knowing Indy is there because of the juxtaposition of the quiet violence starting outside with the quiet (dead?) calm inside. Continue through manequins catching fire and melting and the houses exploding.

7) Show car driving away with blast catching up, but remove flying fridge. Remove reaction of looking up at fridge, go straight to car being engulfed by smoke.

8) Take out fridge landing, bouncing and sliding to stop. Take out Indy falling out of fridge. Cut in after he's fallen out but zoom in a bit to obscure fridge behind him, or remove fridge from fame if possible. Show him starting to get up from behind, but cut in and out of that shot so we don't see the gopher ... or better yet, remove gopher from frame.

9) Show Indy walk up the hill and see the mushroom cloud.

So, now this scene never has Indy in the town. Instead, it makes it seem he took longer to get to the top of the hill overlooking the town and that the commies looking for him got there first, only to realize they were just in time for the blast. As they drive out of town, Indy just crests the hill and sees the town for the first time, but unlike him, we know what's about to happen. We cut back into the town and it immediately explodes, destroying the commies driving away. And when we cut to Indy lying in the ground it seems like the blast knocked him back down the hill he was climbing, and he walks up to see the mushroom cloud ... which means he will still need to be scrubbed down at the FBI interrogation coming up next.

I don't know about anyone else, but that seems to work quite well in my head. One possible change is that there may not be any need to blow up that commie car, considering it seems the only reason that bit is in there is for the fridge out-flying it gag. So we could cut right from the explosion to Indy knocked onto the ground.
#####################

-------- 22 MINUTE MARK --------

jones1899 said:

Thanks. Sounds like it might work nicely. Now let's just hope this edit gets made somehow...

I'm about to post a retooling of the whole nuke test site town scene. Finishing up the list of changes in the next few minutes. Keep your eyes here cause I'd like some suggestions.

Ryan

jones1899 said:

Nice suggestions, but I still say we don't need the gunpowder floating through the air at all. Cut after Indy asks for a compass to them walking through the warehouse to Indy asking for shotgun  shells. THe gunpowder is dumb and more needless CG. 

 

Are you doing these edits yourself?

No. At least that's not in my current plans, since I have no experience doing this. If nobody else makes a serious go of this project then I might try to learn the software and do it myself sometime down the road.

You might be right about skipping the gunpowder bit entirely. You could do what I suggest above by altering Indy's line to Spalko down to, "The contents of that box are highly magnetized ...(cut out "I need gunpowder")... do you want my help or not?" ... then cut directly to them walking where he says, "gimme some shotgun shells" (cut out his first "shells..." so it doesn't seem like he just thought of it but that the shotgun shells are his original plan after not getting a compass). As soon as he says "gimme some shotgun shells", cut back to the previous wide shot of them walking where they're pouring gunpowder into the hat (at a wide enough angle, you can't tell that's what they're doing) and insert the sound of emptying shells from the gun over this shot (Inserting this shot prevents it from seeming that the box they were looking for was right where they were standing by the entrance). Before it gets close enough to make out what they're doing (we just want it to be clear they're moving through the warehouse), cut back to right after he asks for the shells, coming in to the closer view of them emptying shells from their guns into his hand.

I think that actually might work. Good suggestion Jones1899.

Ryan

Alright, I started this project I mentioned above. Here is my list of changes for the first 15 minutes of the movie...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

- FAde into clean plate of gopher mound ... no gopher

- Try to shorten the time it takes for the ract to start

- After the commie guns it we get a few different shots, including one from behind as they're driving off ... go right from this shot into the commies turning into the army base, shortening the lame race

- When guards are being shot, add in muzzle flashes for kneeling guy and standing guy on right

- Take out Mac's reference to the bet before car drives up.

- When Dovchenko walks up, cut out Mac's 2nd reference to the bet and cut straight to Dovchenko pushing Mac aside.

- After Indy gets backhanded first time, keep Mac's reaction, but then cut out Indy's "I'm sorry ... drop dead comrade" and go straight to the shot from behind Indy's head where Dovchenko tell the other commies to hold Indy so Dovchenko can hit him again. This makes Dovchenko seem more brutal, since he doesn't need another smart-ass comment to give Indy another smack.

- Alternatively, change the order by having Dovchenko hit Indy, then switch to shot from behind Indy's head where Dovchenko tells others to hold him, show Dovchenko take off his hat to hand it to someone. When Dovchenko's arm is at the lowest point in handing off his hat, insert Mac's reaction shot to the first hit, making it seem like he's now reacting to the beating he thinks Indy is about to get. Cut back to Dovchenko's hand already starting it's way up and balling his fist, only to be called off by Spalko. (If something can be done about Mac's randomly rising and falling hands, that would be just super).

- I don't know what can be done about that "sinking your teeth into those wubbleyous" line. I think the whole exchange sounds off. It might be interesting to have Indy say the "You're not from around here, are you?" line, but then slow down Spalko standing there a bit so we get a second or two of her not saying anything, then cut directly to her putting her three fingers up in his face saying, "three times I have received order of Lenin". This would also eliminate her introduction of herself (rank and name), so it will make more sense when Indy asks who she was in the FBI interrogation later.

- Don't know if there's a way to eliminate Indy's crosseyed look when Spalko says, "what I need to know is in here" and points at his forward, but at the lease it should cut as she start to move down his nose, then cut back into the shot that's looking at her where she smiles slightly just before it switches to her smacking him in the face. Then take out her saying "You're a hard man to read" and him saying "ouch". Cut to her saying, "So", take out reference to "old fashioned way", cut directly to her saying, "you will tell us. you will help us find what we seek".

- When Indy says, "A compass. I need a compass.", take out the shot where he says, "You know, North, South, East" and Mac says, "West" and Indy smiles. Cut straight to "No compass?"

- I think Indy should say to Spalko, "The contents of that box are highly magnetized ... you want my help or not?". Take out him saying, I need gunpowder. Continue to them pouring out gunpowder from grenade into his hand.

- When Spalko says, "Don't toy with me, what is the point of all this?" Cut into to the shot of Indy after he answers, just as he goes to throw the gunpowder in the air. When it starts floating, they have their answer without him explaining it.

- When Spalko cuts into the corpse bag, cut away just before we see anything, show the shot of Indy looking at the gun as the soldier looks towards to group, skip the shot of the corpse and go directly to the reaction shot of the soldiers seeing it. Show Dovchenko holding the flashlight, skip the pan to the hand, cut directly to camera panning up to Spalko's face, then keep going.

- Cut Indy's reaction shot as he's pulling the gun out of the soldier's hand with his whip. The reaction looks fake and out of place. Instead once the whip is around the skip the pull reaction and jump right to the gun being pulled into Mac's hand.

- Keep Indy's saying "drop the guns", but cut out him saying, "or colonel doctor Spalko is dead". Better to keep him not knowing who she is.

- Cut out Spalko saying, "Any last words?" and Indy saying "I like Ike." The movie takes place in the 50's it isn't about the 50's and we enough 50's references before and after this. Cut right to Dovchenko telling him to put down the gun.

- When Indy throws down the gun and it shoots Mac in the foot, keep the shot of Mac shooting his gun, but skip the shot of Indy's face as he goes to run, cutting directly to wide shot of him already running. Indy wouldn't haven't waited around like that.

- I don't have a major problem with the "damn, I thought it was closer line" but it could probably be removed in favor of going directly to elbowing the soldiers out of the truck.

- The exploding crates he drives through look off, but not sure what could be done about this.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ryan

Doctor M said:

Good looking model... I'm not sure there's much resemblance though.

Well, I guess different people see different things :)

I sent it to 3 people and asked if it looked like anyone without telling them and they all guessed Ford on their first guess. The thing you need to remember at this point though is...

1) This model is based on Temple of Doom age and from screencap of that movie

2) A large part of Ford's likeness lies in his asymmetry, but because of the way the modeling process goes, you model half a face with a symmetry/mirror modifier until you have everything perfect ... THEN you collapse it to a single object and work on the asymmetry to perfect the likeness. I'm still in the first part of the modeling process, so you'd be better off blocking out the right side of his face (left half of the picture).

Those things having been said, the eyes need to be raised ever so slightly, the nostrils need to be adjusted, and the jaw needs to be made a little less squared (corners need to come up). Bridge of nose might also need to be widened a bit. When it gets to applying the asymmetry, his nose needs to be angled and turned a bit to his right and the right side of his mouth needs to be raised slightly, which will give him a bit more of a pronounced smile line on his right than his left. And, of course, there's the scar.

Ryan

The Golden Idol said:

Here's HeKS's CGI Indy model (not actually involved in this edit, but w/e). Work in progress, obviously.

The pics don't seem to have posted for some reason.

EDIT: Problem seems to be fixed.

Ryan

I'm just wondering if anyone is still seriously working on this project. If so, I'm thinking of suffering through this film again to come up with a complete list of suggested edits. I had no faith in this idea when I started reading the thread, but after seeing some of the edited cuts of the jungle chase, etc., I'm actually thrilled at the idea of this. So is it worth my time to give this a go?

Ryan

Marion said:

 

Ok, Laser, I know you did the waterfall and it was really great ;) But, I wanted to see it with the music from the temple of doom: "Water, water, RUN!!!" (just for fun...) So, I did it again, errr...ok, I've tried to do it again.... but that music was too short so... it ended up with another music (from "tod" too) and only one waterfall. Yes, I failed in my attempt xDDDD

Anyway... Here is my "version" :D

http://www.mediafire.com/?o3koztzyzmm

 

PS: Don't worry about the languague, it's only a test.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If a smooth edit can be achieved with only one fall I think that would be absolutely great. The 3 falls are horrible in my opinion. Even though the edits with 3 falls have been MUCH better than the original, I find the 3 falls stupid every time.

The Temple of Doom music is great here. Again, much better than original.

HeKS

Marion said:

Well... I dunno, but there are some things so... I mean, It's ok if you want to change scenes that aren't right (e.g. the pocketknife joke or the bouncing fridge etc...) but I don't see the point in change... the whole movie! xD

 

Btw... here it's the end of the cemetary scene ;)

http://www.megaupload.com/es/?d=P1Q1HTC8

This looks great. Only thing I'd recommend is a better gunshot sound, probably one pulled from one of the earlier movies.

HeKS

Wow! That Jungle Chase edit from around page 6-8 by Laser was AWESOME! It's the first time I've ever watched that scene without cringing ... apart from those two things I mentioned right above before the chase actually starts. Great job!

Sorry if I'm behind the ball on this, but like I said in an ealier post, I only stumbled on this forum today and I'm reading it in sequence.

HeKS

More for the jungle chase. After the tree cutter is blown up and they're driving towards the duck, Spalko looks towards them, then it cuts to Ox saying "Henry Jones ... JR." Then it cuts back to Spalko running to get in the vehicle. OX's line is stupid and the delivery is stupid. It should be cut right out and we should go right from Spalko looking at Indy and Co. driving towards her to her running to get into the vehicle to drive away.

HeKS

Here's something else to fix in the jungle chase sequence. When in the truck before the chase starts, Marion and Indy are in the front seat. Indy goes into the back of the truck and Mutt comes out into the front seat while Marion is driving. He looks at her for a few seconds like he's never seen her drive a car before ... oh, and like she has 3 heads ... then asks what Indy is going to do next. In my opinion, he should jump into the front seat and immediately ask what Indy's going to do next.

HeKS

jones1899 said:

Some good suggestions Doc. 

I never nocticed that Spalko shoots one of her own men, I'll have to watch again to catch that. 

As for Marion, I've mentioned it several times. Her goofy "I don't care if I get shot or if my son dies...IM IN A MOVIE YAY!" look through most of the film is just too much. I HATE HATE HATE the scene where she is holding on to the steering wheel laughing after the waterfall. KILLS me everytime. The trust me line was poorly delivered as well.

Glad you liked our suggestions (me, topdawg, etc). Laser's doing a great job so far.

This reminded me of something I was going to say in my previous post. One of the absolute dumbest plot devices of this whole movie comes right after this bit with Marion holding the wheel, where Indy tells everyone that nobody has to continue but him, and when he's asked why he says it's because the skull told him he had to. SHUT UP!!! I've never heard anything so stupid and it's just one more instance in this movie where Indy is being a puppet led around by someone or something else.

It seems to me that a good piece of this scene could be cut. Once they recognize that they need to be going up to those "eyes" it should just cut to them up there ... or possibly have some establishing shot of where they're heading again that slowly zooms into the area, possibly with the well of souls music in the background, then cuts to them in the entrance ... where the stupid reference to the torches recently being lit should cease to exist.

HeKS

topdawg193 said:

Yup, I've been updating the list as we go.

Lol, I know, I think I'm fresh out of ideas as well - there can't honestly be anything else we haven't covered! I think we really do have the definitive list of suggestions; if all or most can be implemented in a fan edit, I'll finally be able to let this film sit beside my original Indy trilogy DVD boxset. Right now, that's just not happening with the theatrical cut, on principal, lol.

I haven't had a chance to finish reading the thread yet, but at this point in it I have some ideas that I haven't seen mentioned.

Problems in no particular order (and from memory):

- In the graveyard sequence, once they actually find the bodies of the conquistadors, Indy finds the body of that main one and says something like, "It's Francisco de Orellana HIMself." The line reading is very weird at the end there and would sound better without the "himself".

- Same scene, when he finds the actual skull Indy says "un.....believable". There was time for my head to give birth to an alien god in that pregnant pause. Anyway to remove the break in the word so you can't hear "un ... (wait for it) ... believable" in your head?

- In Indy's place near the beginning of the movie, when he's talking to Jim Broadbent's character, he says, "I never should have doubted you my friend". The inclusion of "my friend" sounds very forced. The line would be much better without it.

- In the diner with Mutt, when the Russians come up to the table and Mutt pulls out his switchblade, Indy says something like, "Nice try kid, but I think you just brought a knife ..... (camera switches to Russians, Russian pull aside jackets to reveal gun handles) ... to a gun fight." Nobody in real life pauses like that to allow for a different camera angle setup to reveal something like that. Indy knew they had guns before they showed them ... obviously. So the line should be delivered without the ridiculous pause.

- At the end of the motorcycle chase, when in the library and the bike slides along the ground and comes to a stop in front of student, the student asks Indy something and the answer is delivered in the same way as the scene I described above. Indy gets on motorcycle and says something like, 'If you want to be a good archaeologist ... (bike rides out of camera, camera angle changes, bike rides into camera) ... you need to get out of the library.' Something should be done about this stupid pause ... shortened at the least.

- I think it's good near the beginning to have Indy recognize Spalko is from eastern Ukraine, but that 'sinking your teeth into those wubbleyous' has GOT to go. Doesn't sound like Indy and the line isn't delivered well.

- I'm sure I'd come up with others if I had more time.

I don't know if it interests anyone, but I've been working on a 3D model of Indy for possible use in a CG movie I've been planning with someone. It still needs a fair bit of work and the age appearance is currently based on ToD, but if you'd like to take a look then PM me and I'll send you the pics and maybe someone could post them cause it would be a hassle for me to do it right now.

HeKS

jones1899 said:

Funny, I've never noticed all the skulls in this movie (mushroom cloud, waterfall, etc) anyway...

The waterfall thing is a tough. Seems line the only way to do it - which is probably a pretty big job - is to somehow drop a cliff (in place of the waterfall) behind one of the shots (1:29:30 or 1:30:06- ish) where the vehicle is falling down one of the falls. This would go right after they go off the cliff. This shot would also have to be flipped. Anyway, this way we could see them fly off the cliff and hit the water and climb back in. Then we could cut the Ox and Mutt dialog, drop their asses again and again if we wanted to in quick succession. Or cut the three times it drops thing all together and go straight to them walking to the rocks after the third fall.

Easy for me to say, huh?

I've only just found this forum today and read to page 3 so I may be too late on this, but I have an idea for the waterfall sequence. I don't know if anyone has seen the comic adaptation, but they were smart enough to realize the CG tree was stupid, so they got rid of the cliff altogether and had the river running right through the area where the and scene takes place at the same ground level ... so the amphibious vehicle just drives off the bank and into the water. It seems there might be a way to edit the sequence to give this same impression. I'm going from memory here, but I think you'd have to cut the bit where Marion drives by the edge of the cliff and notices the tree offscreen ... and you'd have to cut comments about the cliff ... but otherwise you might just be able to show her speeding towards the edge of the cliff and cut directly to the driving off the tree into the water. A CG replace of the tree with the cliff edge would likely resolve the whole problem.

HeKS