HeKS

Hey Doctor M,

The irony about Ford looking old in KotCS is that if you watch his interviews in the special features where he's wearing the khaki shirt he wears in the film, he looks about 10 years younger than he does at the worst points of the film. In those interviews, he looks like 5-10 years have passed since Last Crusade rather than 20 years. When the cinematographer makes your talent look WORSE than they actually look, it's time to find a new cinematographer. Of course, that was hardly Kaminski's only fault in this film.

Ryan

Sorry about that Frink. I knew something didn't look right there :)

I do certainly like the AVCHD aspect of Q2's edit. I guess I've just spent so much time planning out the edits for this movie that I have a specific idea of how best to cut it, though currently not the ability to do so, and there's certain stuff ... little stuff sort of (in addition to the obvious stuff) ... that I really hate about this movie and would like to see taken out.

Ryan

Hey Fink,

Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion :)

I just think that there's a whole lot of horrible, awkward stuff in the opening scenes, as well as some stuff that just doesn't make any sense in light of the rest of the movie, that should have been cut from the intro.

One example is the fact that Spalko shows up and gives Indy her name, rank, list of medals, and a description of her supposed ESP powers, then Indy calls her by name in the warehouse, but in the FBI interrogation he asks who she is and has to try to help the FBI identify her by giving a half-assed description. Umm ... why not just give them her name and rank? Better to have removed the part where she reveals her identity and where Indy calls her by name. It CAN be done without messing up the flow of the film.

Another thing is that Indy suddenly knows exactly what Spalko is looking for in the warehouse when she mentions "mummified remains", then in the FBI interrogation, he asks the FBI what was in the box, then they ask him to tell them what was in the box and he does, but then he repeats the question, "What was in the box?!" It's nonsense.

It also would be way better if the audience doesn't see the remains that Spalko is looking it, so some mystery is retained until it is revealed to Indy in the camp later in the movie. The way the movie was originally, and still is in Q2's edit, everybody in the movie and in the audience knows pretty much exactly what was in the box, but somehow Indy and the audience are supposed to be surprised or impressed when it is revealed later in the camp. Again ... nonsense.

Also, I don't think color adjustments to his edit were drastic enough. With some other working drafts of scenes I've seen for other edits, the color was 100 times better, noticeably, even without a side-by-side comparison. To me, without a side-by-side comparison, I hardly notice much of a difference to the color in the Q2 edit up to the point I'm at. It all still looks too dreamy to me.

Anyway, that's just my take on what I've seen so far.

Take care,
Ryan

Yeah, I'm not crazy about the Q2 cut so far. Way too much awkward stuff that should have been cut out of the intro scenes was left in.

Ryan

TV's Frink,

I'm downloading the Essential Edition right now, but I can't find the other edit of Indy 4 there that has been released.

Ryan

Hey Doctor M,

The project appears to be continuing over at fanedit.org

http://www.faneditforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=6767&p=116213#p116213

Ryan

What ever happened with this? Did the effort move to another forum?

Ryan

Hi Belloq,

Did you find a new place to post your videos?

Ryan

Both videos have been taken down. You'll have to post somewhere else. Maybe something like megaupload or some other service.

Ryan

I'm thinking there may be a problem with the link. When I click it it takes me to my own profile on youtube.

Can you post direct links to the individual videos?

Ryan

Hey BL,

Your ideas seem great and fit pretty well with my idea for the proper tone of the movie. I'd like to see the videos but I can't access them at the youtube link.

Ryan

I'd be interested in seeing.

Ryan

Histeria said:

 

I had no problem with the aliens thing in Crystal Skull - it's certainly no sillier than the wrath of god in a box melting the Nazis faces. The movie has several major flaws (too many protagonists to develop properly, unnecessary CGI animals), but the aliens didn't bother me at all. The films have always been about thoroughly implausible maguffins.

As a fanedit, I think it needs a "light touch" - tightening here and there, sorting the colours and removing the odd redudant CGI critter or lame 'nut shot' joke, rather than the radical changes proposed.

But it's all about personal taste, I guess.

 

In a review I wrote on another site, I mentioned that the problem is not that the story centers around aliens, but that, unlike all the other movies, the power behind the crystal skull (the aliens) actually appear on-screen. If Jesus had walked out of a crack in the wall in Last Crusade, it would have been a different movie, and one equal to the sum of its parts rather than greater than the sum of its parts. Same goes if God appeared in Raiders or Shiva appeared in Temple of Doom.

Take care,

Ryan

The Golden Idol said:

Jonesy said:

I think there's too much deliberating going on with these edits. Granted, there is a lot wrong with the movie, but coloring Indy's hair? Changing the ending? At this rate, will there ever be a finished cut?

 

 I actually don't even know for sure who is currently working on this edit. Jones1899 said he was almost finished quite a while ago, and I think Infodroid is doing an edit, and I don't even know if HeKS and Laser are making an edit.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do with this. I definitely want to do an edit, but I haven't had time to finish putting my edit ideas together yet or to become comfortable with the editing process, because I don't have much experience in it. I had planned on learning it the past couple months but things have been more hectic than expected. I will EVENTUALLY do an edit of this movie, but I literally have no idea whatsoever when that will be.

HeKS

Uncanny Antman said:

Now that the discussion is leaning towards a school paper, I do have to wonder out loud how needed the newspaper is.  I mean, if the headline is simply "Cleared, Promoted" how is that information that isn't already in the film?

 

The business with the door to Indy's new office already tells us in no uncertain fashion that the matter has been cleared up. 

 

I'm certainly not trying to talk anyone out of adding the paper, I'm just playin' devil's advocate as to it's necessity.

I think Antman's got a point here. The problem with the film isn't that we don't find out he has been cleared and promoted. The problem is that the movie doesn't give any credible reason WHY he is cleared. I can't think of anything he did in the movie that would prove he was innocent ... except the word of his soon-to-be-wife and his son ... and the testimony of a crazy-until-5-minutes-ago guy. Indy didn't even defeat the the "bad guy". The "bad guy" defeated herself.

The best thing, if possible, would be to think of something that could have reasonably been used to clear him and then try to make a headline out of that reason.

Ryan

m.s said:

Perfect. The school paper, a short headline. I vote for "Dr. Jones cleared" or "Dr. Jones in clear". Works very good for me. A subtle addition that nicely wraps up the class scene from the beginning.

Yeah, or maybe even, "Dr. Jones Cleared; Promoted!"

Ryan

Laserschwert said:

HeKS said:

do we have much reason to think any significant number of people would know about him being under suspicion in the first place - as distinct from all the other people under suspicion at the time - so that a newspaper announcement about him being cleared would be warranted or make sense?

Well, judging by the scene when the Dean gets Indy out of his class, I'd say that once his students got wind of it, the news spread all across the university, and then beyond that as well...

Or we'll just have it be in the school's paper ;)

Putting it in the college paper is actually exactly what I was thinking. Both he and his situation would be well known by the student body, so it would make perfect sense for an announcement to be made in that context. Even the front page would make sense. But in a city paper, probably not.

Ryan

Laserschwert said:

I agree that we need one of those short headlines, definitely... first of all, there's not enough space on the table to have the newspaper only folded in half, so I had to quarter it. Second of all, the newspaper isn't even in focus, so the lettering has to be rather big to be visible in the (slightly blurred) background. And third, we only have a couple of seconds to read the thing, so a 3-word-headline should work best. The wedding doesn't need to be mentioned in the headline, I think. Maybe in a subtitle that's barely visible (but works as a nice easter-egg).

I think not everyone in that fictional world knows "Dr. Jones", so having him named as "Local Professor" or "Local Hero" might work best, as it sounds like a headline to get the readers interested.

 

By the way, which newspaper are they reading over there? In 1957 that is...

Hey Laser and all,

I agree with your point about not everyone knowing "Dr. Jones", but I'll take it a step further .... do we have much reason to think any significant number of people would know about him being under suspicion in the first place - as distinct from all the other people under suspicion at the time - so that a newspaper announcement about him being cleared would be warranted or make sense? I'm only really thinking about this now, but I'm wondering what would make sense to have in a newspaper when you REALLY think about it.

Of course, we're probably putting more thought into this matter than the total of thought that went into Indy 4 ... but what can you do? :)

Ryan

jones1899 said:

Not yet. What if we say something about Indy receiving an award or commendation from the US Government instead of an apology or a headline that his name was cleared. An award would imply as much.

 Is it just me or am I forgetting what exactly it is that Indy does in this movie that merits the receipt of an award?

Ryan

EyeShotFirst said:

Well that is just something I might do. I just put it up simply to say take it or leave it.

I think that making the hair darker isn't such a horrible idea, provided it's a bit more subtle and not quite that dark. His skin, however, looks far too blotchy and the whole things seems a tad dark.

Take care,
Ryan

Uncanny Antman said:

EyeShotFirst said:

Yes I did. He is supposed to be in his fifties. My dad is about 54 and he doesn't look like that.

I don't understand the example.  It's Harrison's real hair color.  So what if your dad isn't grey yet?

 

I think his point is that Indy should only be 57 or 58 in the movie, but Ford was 64 or 65 during filming. So yes, it's Ford's real hair color, but it's his real hair color at 65, not 57. That having been said, the hair might be a tad too dark. But darkening it a bit probably wouldn't be a horrible idea.

Take care,
Ryan

One thing I'm thinking that might help the tension of the retracting steps scene is to show the impaled soldiers at the bottom right after we hear the stairs start to retract. From what I recall, the official KOTCS doesn't show the impaled people until everyone is safely on the ground. If my memory is correct, that was a pretty stupid editing choice.

On a completely different note, my mounted RotLA poster for my theater room just came in today. It looks awesome! I'm psyched!

Ryan

Laserschwert said:

Boujou for matchmoving and 3dsmax with VRay for modeling and rendering.

I'm not familiar with Boujou, but I use 3DS MAX and VRay as well. They are what I used to to produce the images I posted a few pages back in this thread. I'm thinking of taking a look at zbrush and mudbox cause I'd like to start learning to do some character modeling and I hear they're good for that.

Ryan

Laserschwert said:

Here's the (more or less) "photoreal" newspaper:

Version 1 (full 1080p)

Version 2 (720p with panning and zooming)

The masks are still the same, so the Dean's arm is still going behind the newspaper, and the bible's edges are still a bit rough when it goes in front of the paper. I'll fix those when finalizing the thing with a proper article. Any ideas on that?

That's lookin' nice laser. What software are you using to do the modeling and camera match rendering?

Ryan

Laserschwert said:

I've made some tests regarding the newspaper shot in the Dean's office.

Newspaper Version 1 (the pure 1080p-shot with the newspaper inserted)

Newspaper Version 2 (the shot rescaled to 720p with added panning an zooming to frame the paper better)

Newspaper Version 3 (the same as version 2, but with part of the video slowed down to keep the paper in the frame for a longer time)

The newspaper itself is just a dummy... the content has to be changed (obviously), the finished thing would be photorealistic and the masks (to keep stuff "in front" of the newspaper) aren't final... this is just a "quick" test.

Does it work?

Hey Laser,

I think the effect is well done. If I had any suggestion it would be to lose the double fold of the newspaper. I'd just have it folded in half so you could see the entire upper half of the paper. I think that would catch the eye better and be more immediately obvious that it is a newspaper. It would also provide more room for title and picture to catch the eye quicker.

Ryan